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| Tonoko Norway. July 11 2012 00:29. Posts 5 | Profile # |
Hello, i have been playing around with this build, and it's working pritty good up to now inn mid-high platinum league, and most of my losses with this build comes from my lack of apm to trancefuse when the "Terrran" does a aggressive early push, and most tank marine, and later pushed is mostly easy to clean up even if i lose 3 or 4 queens inn the prosses.
I got replays for this, but i don't know where or how to upload them, but i will write down the build order.
16 Hatch
17 Hatch
18 Overlord
18 Pool
22 Queen
24 Queen
26 Queen (Keep Queen Production Up Until you have 9)
28 A pair of lings
@Around 07:10-07:30 make 4 extractors and 2 evo chambers
Then Lair, Ling-Speed, 1+ Melee and Armor, Bainling Nest (Inn that order)
Then get the last 2 extractors after you have held a push or you see a 3rd from terran and satruate your bases fully.
After Lair finishes make a infestor pit and strait to lair and 2/2
Take your 4th and 5th while hive is morphing, and get gasses only from them.
Ultralisk Cavren, Adrenal Glands when hive finishes.
After you are maxed on ultra ling bling infestor make 3 spires dubble upgrade and 1 Gspire.
Trade alittle or alot here and there, then make transition smooth to broodlord corupter infestor ultra, or what ever beats what terran goes for most effectivly.
So after all that my question. Does anyone know if this is a good strategy with the current meta game? or do you think it is to fragile at the higher levels?
I'm greatfull for all feedback. 
Edit
-------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a Replay of a Match were i used it.
http://drop.sc/218189Last edit: 2012-07-11 02:24:03 |
| | Bringing back Hydra/Roach |
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 Vralaren Sweden. July 11 2012 00:32. Posts 129 | Profile # |
| What do you do against reactor helion with 2 hatch before pool? U even make a ovie before pool. The helions will have a great time roasting all your drones while u are making the queens. |
| | Its like stealing candy from.... Someone u steal candy from! -LiquidSheth♥ |
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| Saechiis Netherlands. July 11 2012 00:33. Posts 2883 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't know why you would 3 hatch before pool unless you dronescout and find Terran 15CC'ing, it doesn't really make sense unless you're abolutely sure Terran can't pressure. Last edit: 2012-07-11 00:34:45 |
| | Thinking outside the box, I wonder what's in the box |
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| GGzerG United States. July 11 2012 00:40. Posts 3513 | Profile Blog # |
Well in theory this sounds like a very creative and amazingly intuitive build, but the only problem is that you would get more fully saturated faster and more efficiently, and safer by just going hatch , pool, then laying down you're 3rd hatch, due to the fact that if terran pressures you or anything / bunker rushing, if he micro's well then you will for sure lose drones. The problem arises when you realize that you are not making drones as fast as you would be if you had the queens sooner because of the larva. The amount of larva that the 2 hatcheries provide when queens are injecting is greater than that of 3 hatcheries without queens injecting them, and by the time you're 3rd finishes you will already have a queen to inject it and so therefor you're larva count and saturation will always be higher by doing it the standard way, Hatchery, Pool, Hatchery.
Also if the Terran plays a very fast factory opening with hellion / marine / marauder scv, or any other variation of this build and goes high pressure, it would be harder for you to stop because of the fact that you have less drones / larva and you would have to build more spine crawlers in order to stop an attack , queen's are not going to be able to stop a really strong all in if it is very early on, even if you have 9 because he can just click them one by one and they will instantly die because you cannot transfuse them when the terran has a lot of this certain ' all in ' / ' high pressure ' build. It could be possible but you would have to over compensate with spine crawlers to make this work , and then you would still be behind more than ahead.
I hope I explained this to you well enough.
God bless~Last edit: 2012-07-11 00:42:29 |
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| Luisa_2 Germany. July 11 2012 00:41. Posts 186 | Profile # |
Insta loss vs 2 Rax.
Why would you get 4 extractors that fast? I can't see the point unless you want to go straight into mutas, if not you have so much overgas. 2 gas at first and then you can still add more, but you will need the mins till then.
I can't judge if 1 base all-ins are effectively holdable with 3 hatch before pool, probably not tho. |
| | "Tasteless,why did the Colossus fall over?" "Why?" " Because it was imbalanced" |
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| MetalPanda Canada. July 11 2012 00:41. Posts 1136 | Profile # |
On July 11 2012 00:33 Saechiis wrote:
I don't know why you would 3 hatch before pool unless you dronescout and find Terran 15CC'ing, it doesn't really make sense unless you're abolutely sure Terran can't pressure.
My guess is that's why he wants 9 queens instead of 6-, but I agree, a good timing should beat this.Last edit: 2012-07-11 00:41:57 |
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| naggerNZ New Zealand. July 11 2012 00:50. Posts 700 | Profile # |
On July 11 2012 00:41 MetalPanda wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 00:33 Saechiis wrote:
I don't know why you would 3 hatch before pool unless you dronescout and find Terran 15CC'ing, it doesn't really make sense unless you're abolutely sure Terran can't pressure.
My guess is that's why he wants 9 queens instead of 6-, but I agree, a good timing should beat this.
Any timing should beat this. The only time you should ever really 3hatch before pool is if you scout a 14/15CC. Doing it blindly isn't a good idea. No amount of Queens will compensate, since the vulnerability is expressly between the time your third hatch starts and your pool finishes.
If you can't micro well enough to transfuse, get faster roaches/lings rather than more Queens.Last edit: 2012-07-11 00:51:15 |
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| Tonoko Norway. July 11 2012 01:01. Posts 5 | Profile # |
On July 11 2012 00:40 GGzerG wrote:
Well in theory this sounds like a very creative and amazingly intuitive build, but the only problem is that you would get more fully saturated faster and more efficiently, and safer by just going hatch , pool, then laying down you're 3rd hatch, due to the fact that if terran pressures you or anything / bunker rushing, if he micro's well then you will for sure lose drones. The problem arises when you realize that you are not making drones as fast as you would be if you had the queens sooner because of the larva. The amount of larva that the 2 hatcheries provide when queens are injecting is greater than that of 3 hatcheries without queens injecting them, and by the time you're 3rd finishes you will already have a queen to inject it and so therefor you're larva count and saturation will always be higher by doing it the standard way, Hatchery, Pool, Hatchery.
Also if the Terran plays a very fast factory opening with hellion / marine / marauder scv, or any other variation of this build and goes high pressure, it would be harder for you to stop because of the fact that you have less drones / larva and you would have to build more spine crawlers in order to stop an attack , queen's are not going to be able to stop a really strong all in if it is very early on, even if you have 9 because he can just click them one by one and they will instantly die because you cannot transfuse them when the terran has a lot of this certain ' all in ' / ' high pressure ' build. It could be possible but you would have to over compensate with spine crawlers to make this work , and then you would still be behind more than ahead.
I hope I explained this to you well enough.
God bless~
I do see your point. I forgett to say that i scout with my 10th drone, and i never do the build unless i see no gas taken, but thanks for the feedback though been playing around with it and it seem like when i survive the 1st push i am way more ahead then what i am with 2 base 6 min gas. but again that might just be me delaying taking 3rd too long. |
| | Bringing back Hydra/Roach |
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| DreadKnight United Kingdom. July 11 2012 01:42. Posts 114 | Profile # |
This sounds kinda insane tbh but I won't comment before replays...
Upload to http://drop.sc |
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| Mahtasooma Germany. July 11 2012 01:54. Posts 374 | Profile # |
DRG did this recently against MKP (in ZvT, obviously, lol), actually, and stomped him with early roach aggression off of that.
MKP realized quite early, and tried to punish him earlier than most terrans would, failed, and got stomped, actually.Last edit: 2012-07-11 02:05:59 |
| | http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma |
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| Danglars United States. July 11 2012 02:05. Posts 1919 | Profile Blog # |
On July 11 2012 01:01 Tonoko wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 00:40 GGzerG wrote:
Well in theory this sounds like a very creative and amazingly intuitive build, but the only problem is that you would get more fully saturated faster and more efficiently, and safer by just going hatch , pool, then laying down you're 3rd hatch, due to the fact that if terran pressures you or anything / bunker rushing, if he micro's well then you will for sure lose drones. The problem arises when you realize that you are not making drones as fast as you would be if you had the queens sooner because of the larva. The amount of larva that the 2 hatcheries provide when queens are injecting is greater than that of 3 hatcheries without queens injecting them, and by the time you're 3rd finishes you will already have a queen to inject it and so therefor you're larva count and saturation will always be higher by doing it the standard way, Hatchery, Pool, Hatchery.
Also if the Terran plays a very fast factory opening with hellion / marine / marauder scv, or any other variation of this build and goes high pressure, it would be harder for you to stop because of the fact that you have less drones / larva and you would have to build more spine crawlers in order to stop an attack , queen's are not going to be able to stop a really strong all in if it is very early on, even if you have 9 because he can just click them one by one and they will instantly die because you cannot transfuse them when the terran has a lot of this certain ' all in ' / ' high pressure ' build. It could be possible but you would have to over compensate with spine crawlers to make this work , and then you would still be behind more than ahead.
I hope I explained this to you well enough.
God bless~
I do see your point. I forgett to say that i scout with my 10th drone, and i never do the build unless i see no gas taken, but thanks for the feedback though been playing around with it and it seem like when i survive the 1st push i am way more ahead then what i am with 2 base 6 min gas. but again that might just be me delaying taking 3rd too long.
Yeah, don't go double hatch before pool against Terran. You're safer against things that would kill your drones or AT LEAST force you to cease mining for a very long time. SCV also gets full scout and ASSURES the Terran that any number of marines with a bunker building will completely pay for itself in drone kills and lost mining time. Your lack of early injects will guarantee a limited production coming out of this. |
| | MC HuK HerO Creator HWAITING || Go iS! || Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California! | |
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| Nihonjin July 11 2012 02:21. Posts 66 | Profile # |
DRG did this against mma and it worked really well against cc first.
But i think he had 6 queen.
Held off marine bunker pressure pretty well with 8-10ling and queen. |
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| MstrJinbo United States. July 11 2012 05:33. Posts 777 | Profile # |
On July 11 2012 01:01 Tonoko wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 00:40 GGzerG wrote:
Well in theory this sounds like a very creative and amazingly intuitive build, but the only problem is that you would get more fully saturated faster and more efficiently, and safer by just going hatch , pool, then laying down you're 3rd hatch, due to the fact that if terran pressures you or anything / bunker rushing, if he micro's well then you will for sure lose drones. The problem arises when you realize that you are not making drones as fast as you would be if you had the queens sooner because of the larva. The amount of larva that the 2 hatcheries provide when queens are injecting is greater than that of 3 hatcheries without queens injecting them, and by the time you're 3rd finishes you will already have a queen to inject it and so therefor you're larva count and saturation will always be higher by doing it the standard way, Hatchery, Pool, Hatchery.
Also if the Terran plays a very fast factory opening with hellion / marine / marauder scv, or any other variation of this build and goes high pressure, it would be harder for you to stop because of the fact that you have less drones / larva and you would have to build more spine crawlers in order to stop an attack , queen's are not going to be able to stop a really strong all in if it is very early on, even if you have 9 because he can just click them one by one and they will instantly die because you cannot transfuse them when the terran has a lot of this certain ' all in ' / ' high pressure ' build. It could be possible but you would have to over compensate with spine crawlers to make this work , and then you would still be behind more than ahead.
I hope I explained this to you well enough.
God bless~
I do see your point. I forgett to say that i scout with my 10th drone, and i never do the build unless i see no gas taken, but thanks for the feedback though been playing around with it and it seem like when i survive the 1st push i am way more ahead then what i am with 2 base 6 min gas. but again that might just be me delaying taking 3rd too long.
No gas could also mean a 2-Rax. This would kill you faster than the hellions if you did 2 hatch before pool. You Need to see CC or else it is too risky.
Also what are you going to do with 9 queens that you can't do with 4 or 6?
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| Parodoxx United States. July 11 2012 05:38. Posts 513 | Profile # |
Your going to eat a lot of dumb losses with a 3rd that quick. if you wanted to make a safer revision simply get the pool before the 3rd to start queen production early then the 3rd shortly after.
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| 6xFPCs United States. July 11 2012 05:50. Posts 357 | Profile # |
On July 11 2012 00:40 GGzerG wrote:
Well in theory this sounds like a very creative and amazingly intuitive build, but the only problem is that you would get more fully saturated faster and more efficiently, and safer by just going hatch , pool, then laying down you're 3rd hatch, due to the fact that if terran pressures you or anything / bunker rushing, if he micro's well then you will for sure lose drones. The problem arises when you realize that you are not making drones as fast as you would be if you had the queens sooner because of the larva. The amount of larva that the 2 hatcheries provide when queens are injecting is greater than that of 3 hatcheries without queens injecting them, and by the time you're 3rd finishes you will already have a queen to inject it and so therefor you're larva count and saturation will always be higher by doing it the standard way, Hatchery, Pool, Hatchery.
Also if the Terran plays a very fast factory opening with hellion / marine / marauder scv, or any other variation of this build and goes high pressure, it would be harder for you to stop because of the fact that you have less drones / larva and you would have to build more spine crawlers in order to stop an attack , queen's are not going to be able to stop a really strong all in if it is very early on, even if you have 9 because he can just click them one by one and they will instantly die because you cannot transfuse them when the terran has a lot of this certain ' all in ' / ' high pressure ' build. It could be possible but you would have to over compensate with spine crawlers to make this work , and then you would still be behind more than ahead.
I hope I explained this to you well enough.
God bless~
GM zerg, yes? I am going to start quoting you on the hatch-pool-hatch being better than 3rd hatch before pool. I did my own testing and they come out roughly even at 8 min with no disruption ( difference of 2-3 supply), and I don't think anyone can argue that hatch-pool-hatch is safer. Blade seems to like 3rd hatch before pool, though.
Thanks for the detailed reponse regarding the risks, too. |
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| ZenithM France. July 11 2012 05:51. Posts 8170 | Profile # | |
| | MarineKing is my way of Terran. |
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| EngrishTeacher China. July 11 2012 07:51. Posts 430 | Profile Blog # |
Absolute genius build sir.
Please popularize it since I always, for every game, go 12/14 2 rax pressure in Tvz.
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| Belial88 United States. July 11 2012 07:57. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
^ Why don't you just 11/11 rax? I don't understand. Didn't anything but 11/11 just stop being used 2 years ago?
i go third before pool vs CC first (which means you gotta drone scout!) but otherwise you can't go third before pool... even 1 rax FE will kill you with pressure. |
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| EngrishTeacher China. July 11 2012 09:31. Posts 430 | Profile Blog # |
On July 11 2012 07:57 Belial88 wrote:
^ Why don't you just 11/11 rax? I don't understand. Didn't anything but 11/11 just stop being used 2 years ago?
i go third before pool vs CC first (which means you gotta drone scout!) but otherwise you can't go third before pool... even 1 rax FE will kill you with pressure.
I face mid-high master players who usually will stop a 11/11 anyway, and 11/11 delays your OC by so much and leaves you with so few SCVs that I need to do obscene amounts of damage for it to be worth it. Whereas for a 12/14 as long as I score 4-5 drone kills I end up ahead. |
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| HighLach United States. July 11 2012 10:02. Posts 131 | Profile # |
| This only works against CC first. You really should only build 6 queens too, anything over that is a little ridiculous. You need to get banelings or roaches to stop marine/hellion/medivac and other such pushes. |
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