Notes: -I have marked this as a WIP (Work In Progress). I will be adding to it, and refining it over time. -My replay collection will be expanded upon. I will continue to improve as a player and expand upon the foundation I have established here. Obviously I could have spent the time making this guide harvesting more replays, and I didn't save many games that I played prior to creating this. Right now I have included 4 replays.
Intro: Hi everyone. I am a humble NA Masters Terran that has been working on a new build in response to the queen range increase, and how that patch change limited the ability for Terran to harass in the early/mid game. I do not view myself as a good player, and would love for others with superior execution to experiment with my creation, and aid me in its development. It is relevant that my career is based on software / game design; I wish to improve my skill-set in regards to community involvement and the articulation of strategy (so any feedback on such would be very useful).
Document Objectives: -Expand upon the array of openers in TvZ -Convey my opener to other Terran players such that they may experiment with it, and potentially contribute towards its evolution. -Personally develop and experiment with the articulation of strategy, and its revision (based on feedback)
Commonly Perceived Issues With TvZ: Some problems that many state are associated with the current state of TvZ include: -Hard to punish greedy zerg openers, which often include early 3rd, or mass droning on the back of a handful of queens. -Difficulty constraining the Zerg’s economy, such that after typical mid/late game engagements, the zerg will lack the capacity to re-supply with an army composition likely to be cost effective against the more rigid production style of Terran. -Hard to establish tactical scenarios which are not heavily dependent on one or two binary conditions.
Ideal Strategic Objectives: -Force zerg to produce combat units -Deny zerg expansions beyond their natural; which pertains to the next objective. -Force zerg to commit heavily into a tech route or aggression before they have established their 5th/6th gas extractors.
Tactical Solution: -A fast, aggressive force, capable of inducing multitask-based scenarios; complemented with the threat of crippling economic damage, and the ability quickly to destroy/deny structures.
Implementation: -The objectives are satisfied by a reaper/medivac composition, off the back of a reasonably early expansion. This composition facilitates various threats for the Zerg player, and can out-right secure a victory. However, as this guide will illustrate; the overarching game plan for the Terran player is extensive and facilitates safe reactions to various Zerg play-styles.
Execution: -I would not recommend trying to execute this build unless you are of strong mechanics or at least master level. I am a mid-masters player and regularly make fundamental mistakes when trying to optimize this opener; that is why the replay count is low at this point (I will be adding replays as time continues).
Build Order
Here is how the build looks in my brain:
*Get 15 gas right before you start Orbital / Rax finishes
Natural Language Walk-through: Here is a general description of the build. It will be followed up with the standard list format, and some other hopefully helpful graphics.
10 Depot 12 Rax 15 Gas*/Orbital/Marine (make 2) 2nd depot Tech Lab (Reapers When Finished) + 2nd Gas CC on High Ground Factory (Nitro When Finished) 3rd depot 2 more Rax (Tech Lab + Reapers When Finished) Starport (Medivac->Viking When Finished) 3rd CC 2 more Rax 2 Engineering bays 3rd/4th Gas (at natural)
*Get 15 gas right before you start Orbital / Rax finishes
Opening/Early Game: Initial depot and barracks timings are standard. Scout with the scv that finishes the depot. I like to wall at the main ramp, if techlab placement permits it. The first refinery is added right before you start the orbital; you also add the 2nd depot after the gas and orbital. Produce two marines from the barracks, before adding a techlab and the second refinery. Start your first reaper and another Command Center on the high ground. It is not possible to survive really early Zerg all-ins from the low-ground, unless they control terribly (ie: worse than a-move). The first reaper can generally be used to scout out some gas timings and pick off a drone or two (maybe even a creep tumor!). SCV scouting info: -If Zerg has no gas, or a very late pool (later than usual after a hatch first), feel free to map control a little bit with your two initial marines. I like to try and find an overlord, or unite them with the scouting scv such that a few slow lings may be picked off. This also has to potential to distract the Zerg player while your initial reaper scouts his main and perhaps kills some drones. -If Zerg has a pool before hatch, you should leave your scv around to try and determine if he is doing something ridiculous on 1 base, or infact adding the expansion. Against early pools, the ability for reaper to safely be out on the map, is dependent on the map (will be discussed later). If no expansion is going up, you might want to start a bunker on the high ground. If Zerg steals your gas: + Show Spoiler +
You can't continue with this build. But it will occur before you start the techlab (unless your marines are smoking a joint in the corner). When my gas is stolen, I just make marines constantly and start a CC. It turns out that with this gas timing, you will have 100 gas right after you start the production of your CC, and will then be able to add a factory. I like to do a blue flame drop if such a gas steal occurs. Your marines will be able to kill the extractor before you require the second gas. Just make sure if you are killing the extractor that you don't build the CC on the low ground, or else you risk it being denied by lings. Here is an FPVOD of the blue flame drop I do when gas stolen+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.twitch.tv/spacewhales/b/323599031
(there is no gas steal in this game, but it is the same build and matchup; only change is your marines would not be out on the map like mine are, and the CC would be started on the high ground ).
Early/Mid Game Due to the relatively fast second gas, you will be starting the construction of a factory before the second reaper (reaper production is continuous, you aren't cutting unit production to get the factory). After the factory has been started, add another depot before throwing down two more rax (they will also have techlabs and produce a couple of reapers). When the factory is complete, start the nitro pack and your starport. You can fly the second orbital command to the natural if, when you are move out with the reaper/medivac force, you are not being attacked (ie: before applying pressure).
Do note that at all times you will have the capacity to produce marauders. An early roach based attack will not break the ramp to you main, but you will likely require a bunker and some repair.
Once again, the high ground, a bunker, and a few marauders will be your friends. Ensure that you are engaging reapers with lings, and not taking shots from the roaches on anything that can't be repaired.
This is the strongest zerg response to reaper based builds. Because your factory and starport will not require addons (for a while), you can use them to wall yourself in on the high ground. The key to survival is to identify the incoming ling force, and abuse high ground to bounce around pecking away at the ling force (or morphing banelings) with the reaper count that you currently posses. It is also important to do this while he is charging up your ramp; it will force him to control his lings more and give you the precious seconds needed to preserve SCVs or re-wall.
Once your medivac is ready, you should have 5 reapers, with the next under production. You can add another 3 reapers if you wish, I generally end up with 8-11. The medivac is key here because it will allow you to engage queens, and large groups of lings. As shown in the video; it is simple to pickup and leave if outnumbered. I wouldn't recommend engaging speedlings beyond a 1:2.5 reaper:ling ratio [1:2 if on creep!] (this is just a guess from experience, such a ratio could benefit from some substantial testing). Don't engage 3+ queens if they have enough for transfuses. Feel free to tank queen damage while you rain down on structures or creep. Before fungals or mutas; you are quite free to have full map control and threaten the zerg via drop or cliff-jump.
With the reaper force, aim to: -Deny hatcheries beyond the natural. -Control creep. -Pick off queens, lings, and static defense. -Destroy tech structures, and extractors. -Force the Zerg to commit their gas into the negation of the reapers, or a counter-attack, before the 3rd base is established. -Apply enough pressure to transition into a bio force and secure your own 3rd base (if not being all-in'd). -Scout what their transition is: --Lots of players will be forced into roach production. You must establish through scouting and harassment, if these roaches are for defense (4-6ish), or for counter aggression (typically 8+). If the zerg is being defensive, continue to pour on the pressure with MM drops, and fly out your 3rd CC. Aggressive roach play requires turtling behind some bunkers to resist. --Lair timing and the subsequential tech choice are crucial to how you will use your bio force.
Some "Units Lost" results, based on quality of execution:
Most of that section was about the usage of the reaper/medi squad; equally important is the macro base behind such aggression. Make a viking when the medivac is done. Shift-attack that shit around the drop paths and the edges of the map; this puts a lot of stress on the Zerg while you are harassing them, and clears the way for your bio transition to drop without being spotted! The viking is a fierce element in this opener, and I cannot stress the devastating damage it has caused in my experiences. When you are done making reapers (make marines, add a few marauders if there are banes/roaches/infestors), use your gas to get a reactor on the starport, and all the bio upgrades from your 3 techlabs (stim/shields/concussive). Note that the low mineral cost of reapers, and long build time facilitates a strong mineral bank, which you can allocate towards a 3rd CC, then two more barracks and double engineering bay. It is after I macro through this mineral-heavy phase, that I add the 3rd/4th gasses at my natural. Proceed to get double upgrades and some more medivacs from your reactor starport.
Responding to Zerg Midgame: If you are successful with the reaper force, it is likely that zerg has been unable to take a 3rd base without getting lair (and subsequent tech), or committing to some heavy aggression. This will likely result in Zerg doing one of the following things in order to secure a 3rd base: Roach/Baneling: + Show Spoiler +
The typical response from Zerg, in my experience, is to all-in once their 3rd has been repeatedly denied. This type of all in is very hard to stop without tanks, and I believe you will die if you don't make the 3rd CC in-base. Many bunkers are required (4-5) to stop this; spread them out at the entrance to your natural and allocate your marines to inhabit them, as marauders do OK outside. Hold tight here, and if your reapers are still alive, continue to do damage and prevent a 3rd. You can drop after you hold off the attack and it will be difficult for the low-tech Zerg to deal with. This applies to other ground-based aggression from zerg.
Fungal quickly shuts down the reaper force, but there is a multiple minute window before the Infestors pop, when you have the chance to do a lot of damage. Infestors will shit on the reaper force with 1 fungal, so keep it off creep and deny bases once infestors are out. Drop play is a solid follow up, and since you have been denying creep (right?) the Zerg player will have a hard time securing a 3rd and 4th whilst under drop pressure. Ghosts and/or tanks are good follow ups once you have your 3rd/4th gas running.
This is my favourite thing to see in response to my reaper play. Your engineering bays are in time to have turrets at each mineral line, and you can have a healthy marine count, and medivacs to help you secure your third. You can force the mutas off of you by continuing to be annoying with the reapers, viking, and dropping the side of the map where the mutas are not. If on 2 bases, your opponent made defensive roach before adding mutas, it is really hard for them to hold an SCV pull. This seems strange at first, but they didn't use any gas to get banelings, so without AOE your MMM/SCV force is not going to be stopped, if you hit right after the mutas spawn. I don't have any replays of the SCV pull during the new variation of the build, which the guide is conveying, but it works and I will be sure to add one when the time comes
Midgame/Lategame: As this is a guide for an opener, I will only speak of transitioning out of it. As previously mentioned, you will have some MMM with double upgrades to use for grabbing a 3rd base. I like to add 2 more factories for tanks, for a total of 5 barracks, 3 factories, and 1 starport. Because you have the 3 tech labs and all the bio upgrades already, you can use those for the tanks, and make a lot of reactors to compensate for the saturation of your third. Maruaders, ghosts, and vikings are readily available; reactive composition and solid macro will allow you to follow up the bio play with a strong 3 base push, which you can use to take the 4th and do whatever works for you.
Weaknesses/Negative Attributes: (These are the current drawbacks that I identify as associated with the opener.) + Show Spoiler +
-Your upgrades are late, as your early gas is all invested into the reaper and medivac force. -You can't build your natural CC on the low ground. -The units are fragile when not unified. -Blind Zerg all-ins can be hard to stop if the map is 4-player, and you scout them last.
Shakuras Plateau -Many high ground areas in the map allow for constant reaper presence (even before the medivac). Reapers are safe here and very useful. -The wide areas around the main make it difficult to zone out drop play. -The natural is also on raised ground, providing more opportunities to harass the extractors.
Cloud Kingdom -Wide access into main, and easy escape to the natural or third. -High ground in middle allows reapers to safely guard and control towers.
Condemned Ridge -Wide access to natural. -Very long rush distance is bad for roach attacks. -Nice high ground behind 3rd acts as safe haven.
Ohana -Seems hard to get into the main, or the natural mineral line. -I have it veto'd so I haven't tried it yet.
Tal'darim Altar -Large ledges to main and natural. -Reapers can kill your rocks quickly to secure the 3rd base. -Hard to hold off zerg all-ins without a ramp. -I have it veto'd so I haven't tried it lately.
Daybreak -Nothing is exposed to reapers. -Very small gap to enter main. -I have it veto'd, and I hate it in every matchup, so I won't be trying it anytime soon.
Replays: Disclaimer: I am bad and fuck up a lot. This is not a "look how sick I am at this game" thread: I think better players could do a lot more with this build than I do.
Here is a new replay where the reapers are shut down, and the Zerg is allowed to take a 3rd. Keep in mind that the investment required for him to hold off the reapers results in us having similar drone counts. I think he is a slow player so I am not sure if there is a chance to be busted at the front when the muta pop (with ling/bling/muta). My marine count was a bit lower than what seems safe so I think I need to either make some hellions or keep the reapers alive. I think I tried to start siege when I didn't have enough money or something because it didn't upgrade and I almost cried when I pushed the northern 4th haha. http://drop.sc/248079 PS: Map is Cloud Kingdom
***3 New Replays! (August 20th, 2012)*** Here is the opener being executed best yet (I think I make everything in the correct order this time; the tank transition might be where the macro deviates; was dropping a lot and didn't swap add-ons or anything. PS: There is BM, I play best when I am super angry and I was super super angry (you see APM is higher though than usual!). http://drop.sc/241472
Another Shakuras example: Used landed viking and a couple reapers to deny the 3rd while I assaulted the main with the main squad. Mutas transition was dealt with and the advantage I carry into the midgame is enough to hold the center towers. I stumble the macro a little bit and have a sloppy section after 3-4 bases, but I am still adjusting to the lategame with the build, as many zerg just die straight up to it. http://drop.sc/241473
Here is a good example for when your gas is stolen! Everything was really really good this game, but I didn't transfer workers from my main to my 3rd so I mined a lot less than I should have. I feel like if I realized the 3rd wasn't saturated this would have been even more devastating. Wow, why the fuck didn't I transfer those workers? Arghhhhhhhhhh! http://drop.sc/241474
Here is a replay where the reapers deny his 3rd; this results in him floating a lot of minerals in the midgame... but I'm not too sure what to say about his subsequent macro. This purpose of this replay is to show to opener, and how it facilitates the transition into a macro game. (Playing on KimboSlice's account) http://drop.sc/219039
I am kind of embarrassed to include this replay; but it really shows the cost effectiveness of the opener. I am in excellent shape after the reaper harass and initial drops... but I feel that the bong tokes started to kick in during the midgame. Terrible mistakes: -Lost 3rd without lifting... oops! -Floated 2k... made a billion rax and extra CC to spend it. -Turns out the SCVs were walled out of my base... so I didn't spend it and go up to like 4k minerals. Master league shit right here... its OK though; you will see I was so far ahead that it didn't really matter. (Playing on KimboSlice's account) http://drop.sc/219040
In this replay, the zerg does a very strange opener where I think he might be attacking me off of 1 base. I bunker up and transition into a normal game when I identify his intentions to macro. To be honest his build is strange; but you can still see more reaper action. (Playing on KimboSlice's account) http://drop.sc/219041
Here is a replay where I play poorly in the initial stages; losing an scv and 2 marines. I take a risk and make my CC on the low ground, as well as cut the 3rd depot to catch up a bit (my units died so I won't get supply blocked). I am able to keep his 3rd denied, but I am sloppy and lose the reapers. He counters with lings and shit kind of goes crazy. If you like a crazy scrappy style where it seems like both players are awful because they are pushing eachother outside of comfort zones, this is what occurs here. I'll probably remove this one once I have some better examples of me playing on my account. http://drop.sc/219048
More to come! I am improving and will present the build with less mistakes as time goes on. I guess I could have played a bunch more games instead of making this guide but I really wanted to make a foundation that I could expand upon and add to .
Send me your replays to be placed here
Closing remarks: -I have marked this as a WIP (Work In Progress). I will be adding to it, and refining it over time. -My replay collection will be expanded upon. I will continue to improve as a player and expand upon the foundation I have established here. -Please let me know if you try this build and how it goes from you. I have no problems with it being proven not viable. -If you want to know more about Space Whales, check out my tournament + Show Spoiler +
I will try this out when I am at home Sounds really good and I like your Pictures even when they are a bit to "colourful"
The Video is funny too
Edit: Can you maybe explain what you do with your minerals ? I always float 1000 minerals because my rax finished producing reapers and my barracks are building reactors and I am only gas starved.
Any tips on the midgame to keep minerals low ?
Last edit: 2012-07-13 03:11:13
LavaLava United States. July 12 2012 17:20. Posts 235
I will try this out when I am at home Sounds really good and I like your Pictures even when they are a bit to "colourful"
The Video is funny too
Do you think the colour makes them hard to comprehend? I am trying to find a nice place where I am conveying the logistics efficiently, and providing pleasurable aesthetics.
Nihility
oOOoOphidian United States. July 12 2012 17:36. Posts 1240
I'd like to see how this does against Stephano style Roach/Ling defenses. It seems to me this relies too much on zerg either all-inning or making a bad unit composition. Queens are always supposed to target fire the medivac as well, which it appears is just not happening at your level of play.
Thanks man, love the idea behind this and of course reaper + medivac is the funniest thing in the game!! I'm only plat so my mechanics and control are bad, but maybe even my zerg opponents are not so good as they are in master..so I'm gonna try this, very impressive stuff
On July 12 2012 17:36 oOOoOphidian wrote: I'd like to see how this does against Stephano style Roach/Ling defenses. It seems to me this relies too much on zerg either all-inning or making a bad unit composition. Queens are always supposed to target fire the medivac as well, which it appears is just not happening at your level of play.
Yeah, I agree medivacs should be subject of queen target fire. This is complemented by a ling force usually though; I recommend only engaging queens if there are not enough lings to distract the reapers (which in the current metagame, many Zergs are not making the ling force preemptively). My experience against defensive roach ling is against higher level players. It ends up OK if you can keep the creep in control, and deny the 3rd until your orbital is constructed.
These are the scenarios what have spawned in my experience, from defensive roach/ling: I have not really played zergs above the 1000 point mark this season. I have a goal to make top 8 this season so hopefully I will learn from some defeats soon.
-If not committing to muta or infestor, they often have to get speed roaches, to take their 3rd. The iterative denial of the 3rd is kind of what is forcing these all ins. If they bring enough units to the 3rd and defend, there is generally a bio drop or two about to land in their base (ideally) -This play though subjects itself to MMM/SCVs pushes though when the Zerg goes muta after roach/ling. This push is an easy win because no gas is around for banelings when the mutas are built. -I am waiting to encounter an opponent that can deflect the reapers and make infestors with their 3rd. It seems, in theory, like the best response.
I'll be sure to post a replay once I have one, about the interaction you are specifying. However, a large component in the reasoning for the creation of this guide is for stronger Terran players to give it a shot against some adequate Zerg opponents.
Last edit: 2012-07-12 17:56:50
Nihility
Toastie.NL Netherlands. July 12 2012 18:06. Posts 232
How did you make those Bo pictures? They are awesome andreally add some flair to the thread. The build is to multitaskish for me but I love what you try to do!
On July 12 2012 18:06 Toastie.NL wrote: How did you make those Bo pictures? They are awesome andreally add some flair to the thread. The build is to multitaskish for me but I love what you try to do!
Photoshop CS5. Thanks for the kind words
Nihility
Chaggi Korea (South). July 12 2012 18:14. Posts 1090
Subscribed to this thread. The graphics and flow chart is absolutely stellar. I'll read the guide in detail later but this looks promising and thought out.
On July 12 2012 18:22 Chicken Chaser wrote: Subscribed to this thread. The graphics and flow chart is absolutely stellar. I'll read the guide in detail later but this looks promising and thought out.
Glad that you graced my thread with your 420th post! Was just sparking one for the GSL Ro8 tonight...
Nihility
Flonomenalz Nigeria. July 12 2012 18:31. Posts 2863
On July 12 2012 17:36 oOOoOphidian wrote: I'd like to see how this does against Stephano style Roach/Ling defenses. It seems to me this relies too much on zerg either all-inning or making a bad unit composition. Queens are always supposed to target fire the medivac as well, which it appears is just not happening at your level of play.
Yeah, I agree medivacs should be subject of queen target fire. This is complemented by a ling force usually though; I recommend only engaging queens if there are not enough lings to distract the reapers (which in the current metagame, many Zergs are not making the ling force preemptively). My experience against defensive roach ling is against higher level players. It ends up OK if you can keep the creep in control, and deny the 3rd until your orbital is constructed.
These are the scenarios what have spawned in my experience, from defensive roach/ling: I have not really played zergs above the 1000 point mark this season. I have a goal to make top 8 this season so hopefully I will learn from some defeats soon.
-If not committing to muta or infestor, they often have to get speed roaches, to take their 3rd. The iterative denial of the 3rd is kind of what is forcing these all ins. If they bring enough units to the 3rd and defend, there is generally a bio drop or two about to land in their base (ideally) -This play though subjects itself to MMM/SCVs pushes though when the Zerg goes muta after roach/ling. This push is an easy win because no gas is around for banelings when the mutas are built. -I am waiting to encounter an opponent that can deflect the reapers and make infestors with their 3rd. It seems, in theory, like the best response.
I'll be sure to post a replay once I have one, about the interaction you are specifying. However, a large component in the reasoning for the creation of this guide is for stronger Terran players to give it a shot against some adequate Zerg opponents.
Okay. Thanks for the response. I'll give it a shot (I also play Terran) soon and try to give some replays. I really think this will struggle most with that stephano style, but otherwise it seems really fun and powerful.
http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian
TheRealFluid United States. July 12 2012 18:42. Posts 486
"The wings don't make you fly and the crown don't make you king.||"What do you say to god of gg? NOT TODAY" -John the Translator. "Give me Command" -Yellow.
Though, I have a stupid question: what is the advantage of your reaper build vs a reasonnably fast marauder/hellion push ? I did not do a lot of experiment on that push but I would guess it comes a bit too late.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O1cvp.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sYciJ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zgQuK.png)
).![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q1ofu.jpg)
Toastie.NL Netherlands. July 12 2012 18:06. Posts 232
