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| D u o Canada. July 12 2012 18:07. Posts 245 | Profile # |
Well since my friend has found a liking to bot AD carry I've decided I should be able to support him when playing together. (Otherwise I'm usually solo top.)
I don't have many issues playing the actual lane itself so far we've got a 85-90% win and the games we lose are when he gets over eager and tries diving... (Lmao its just who he is HE WILL NEVER CHANGE =___= )
Anyways, I've generally been getting Faerie Charm and 3 sight wards, (generally, this changes as per champion but in general going for an early gold/10 item) after I get set up, I have a hard time going for wards, I generally like getting a really early oracles so I can deny wards and have my jungle get early ganks. But my main problem is that I feel that even early on getting a gold item isn't enough to consistently keep my ward supply up and still be able to build even if its slowly. [As I also use them for bush dominance so I can deny even harder.]
I might not be playing this properly, but I feel like I need my gold items before resupplying my wards even if they run out, and if not I spend all my gold on the wards themselves.
So my question is, how can I keep my gold supply higher without wasting ip on gold runes. it's probably also note worthy that I'm playing on my smurf so my friend can learn ez from low levels instead of having teamates rage at him for not being able to hit any of his skill shots. Which means I won't have greed or wealth in my masteries.
Again I might be playing a support terribly so any sources to videos, guides, ect. would be helpful. ThanksLast edit: 2012-07-12 18:09:24 |
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| Lmui Canada. July 12 2012 18:17. Posts 1888 | Profile # |
You NEED gp10 quints. Without them it's extremely difficult to have enough money for sufficient wards unless you're getting assists/kills. If you can't, you'll want to open faerie + wards and stay in lane until ~9 minutes when you have enough money for a philo+2x wards.
Realistically, you only need two wards out at any time maximum. On blue side, if you aren't pushed, a ward in tribush and a ward in the far lane bush is enough that you can see any incoming enemies. On purple side, a river ward to the right of tri along with a ward in the far lane bush is generally enough.
Your first ward should go out at different times depending on the enemy jungler. In the early game, no jungler will go straight from top lane to bottom lane without clearing camps. Level 2 ganks you can generally prevent by playing safe in the early levels on purple side, blue side you'll want a ward in tri. Otherwise, you'll have to make a judgement based on where the enemy jungler started. If they start blue, it takes ~4 minutes before they're back on blue side of the map again. It takes ~1:40 to go from one corner to the other while clearing camps (wraiths+wolves). In some games, you can get away with not throwing out a ward until 5-6 minutes if you're aware of where the enemy jungler is.
Use wards sparingly for brush control. If you're a strong support like alistar/taric/leona, you can walk right into their brush if your AD goes aggressively with you. There is nothing the other duo can do but give up the brush and ward it.Last edit: 2012-07-12 18:18:59 |
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| D u o Canada. July 12 2012 18:34. Posts 245 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 18:17 Lmui wrote:
You NEED gp10 quints. Without them it's extremely difficult to have enough money for sufficient wards unless you're getting assists/kills. If you can't, you'll want to open faerie + wards and stay in lane until ~9 minutes when you have enough money for a philo+2x wards.
Realistically, you only need two wards out at any time maximum. On blue side, if you aren't pushed, a ward in tribush and a ward in the far lane bush is enough that you can see any incoming enemies. On purple side, a river ward to the right of tri along with a ward in the far lane bush is generally enough.
Your first ward should go out at different times depending on the enemy jungler. In the early game, no jungler will go straight from top lane to bottom lane without clearing camps. Level 2 ganks you can generally prevent by playing safe in the early levels on purple side, blue side you'll want a ward in tri. Otherwise, you'll have to make a judgement based on where the enemy jungler started. If they start blue, it takes ~4 minutes before they're back on blue side of the map again. It takes ~1:40 to go from one corner to the other while clearing camps (wraiths+wolves). In some games, you can get away with not throwing out a ward until 5-6 minutes if you're aware of where the enemy jungler is.
Use wards sparingly for brush control. If you're a strong support like alistar/taric/leona, you can walk right into their brush if your AD goes aggressively with you. There is nothing the other duo can do but give up the brush and ward it.
Lmao you know I never thought about movement time... I srsly just face palmed. I know where to ward but I just generally threw it down at like 2:30 or 3 minutes, I never thought about delaying it if they're starting blue.
I generally play heal ranged supports like soraka, janna (I know not heal but same premise) and sona. So getting bush control and just zoning via silence + a 40 damage auto attack early on can force quite a few pots or make my opponent use their mana really early, so I enjoy playing really aggressively but have the bush control so I can actually escape. I've flat out won games because I denied not only cs but exp and put our lane at a huge advantage.
From what I've read and seen for all supports I never seen anyone do gold quints. I haven't really watched many streams but only tournaments with supports so I didn't really get to see what sort of runepages people were running. Perhaps I'll have to find a good support stream and just try and 100% emulate what they're doing.
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| Lmui Canada. July 12 2012 18:44. Posts 1888 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 18:34 D u o wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:17 Lmui wrote:
You NEED gp10 quints. Without them it's extremely difficult to have enough money for sufficient wards unless you're getting assists/kills. If you can't, you'll want to open faerie + wards and stay in lane until ~9 minutes when you have enough money for a philo+2x wards.
Realistically, you only need two wards out at any time maximum. On blue side, if you aren't pushed, a ward in tribush and a ward in the far lane bush is enough that you can see any incoming enemies. On purple side, a river ward to the right of tri along with a ward in the far lane bush is generally enough.
Your first ward should go out at different times depending on the enemy jungler. In the early game, no jungler will go straight from top lane to bottom lane without clearing camps. Level 2 ganks you can generally prevent by playing safe in the early levels on purple side, blue side you'll want a ward in tri. Otherwise, you'll have to make a judgement based on where the enemy jungler started. If they start blue, it takes ~4 minutes before they're back on blue side of the map again. It takes ~1:40 to go from one corner to the other while clearing camps (wraiths+wolves). In some games, you can get away with not throwing out a ward until 5-6 minutes if you're aware of where the enemy jungler is.
Use wards sparingly for brush control. If you're a strong support like alistar/taric/leona, you can walk right into their brush if your AD goes aggressively with you. There is nothing the other duo can do but give up the brush and ward it.
Lmao you know I never thought about movement time... I srsly just face palmed. I know where to ward but I just generally threw it down at like 2:30 or 3 minutes, I never thought about delaying it if they're starting blue. I generally play heal ranged supports like soraka, janna (I know not heal but same premise) and sona. So getting bush control and just zoning via silence + a 40 damage auto attack early on can force quite a few pots or make my opponent use their mana really early, so I enjoy playing really aggressively but have the bush control so I can actually escape. I've flat out won games because I denied not only cs but exp and put our lane at a huge advantage. From what I've read and seen for all supports I never seen anyone do gold quints. I haven't really watched many streams but only tournaments with supports so I didn't really get to see what sort of runepages people were running. Perhaps I'll have to find a good support stream and just try and 100% emulate what they're doing.
For passive supports like janna/soraka you always want gold quints. You're ranged and your poke is going to consist primarily of an autoattack or autoattack+silence. For sona, it is somewhat viable to run AP quints to do a stupid amount of damage early game.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24995653#runes
I only have a single rune page for all my supports, #14 on that site. Seals you can do either armor or gp10, I'm torn as to which to use because it's not quite as important as the gp10 quints.
Rereading your post though, you're not level 30 yet so I'm not sure if it's worth going gp10 since the level 1 runes are kind of mediocre as far as gp10 goes and level 2 are straight up not worth it.
If that's the case, I'd get AP quints. They're helpful on every support (larger heals, shields, stronger pokes etc) and might do more for your game than gp10 until you hit the higher ELOs. You can also use them on any AP carry that you wind up playing.
Edit::
Just a note, the best way to determine where the enemy jungler started is by watching their mid and which side they come from.
Also, some junglers such as amumu and maokai literally can't gank without gimping their jungle until level 4. If they're on blue side, they hit level 4 on either wolves or wraiths, neither of which are conducive to ganking bottom lane. You're safe until ~4:45-5 minutes into the game at the earliest. Other junglers like WW can't gank until they hit 6 since they're absolutely terrible without their ultimates. You can play aggressive with no wards, do whatever until 7 minutes into the game since unless they counterjungled and got an early level 6, it's pretty much impossible to do anything useful.
The few junglers you have to watch out for are
Lee Sin - If he started on your side, 50/50 chance he's ganking you
Alistar - Only a threat if you're on blue since alistars who start red are pretty useless
Mundo - If you play stupid on blue side, he can go W>Q instead of W>E and you'll die at level 1.
A lot of these timings and general game knowledge you'll have to acquire through experience. Jungling yourself is a good way to learn where you can be at any particular timing.Last edit: 2012-07-12 18:52:57 |
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| D u o Canada. July 12 2012 19:04. Posts 245 | Profile # |
I won't be buying runes on my smurf until I hit level 20 so then I can just buy all the tier 3 runes. I don't find it ideal to waste IP on runes early on this way I can just get a whole page set up for my support generally everyone is bad enough that even if they have runes it won't make too much of a difference unless you're like solo top in a mirror or a bad match up.
I've tried jungling but I don't have enough lane knowledge to actually do really good at it. [Hence why I'm learning bot.] I got like a 80% gank rate on toplane cause thats what I play and I know what the people in the matchup are capable of doing and how much damage I have to deal and how long I generally have to CC for and what not. But my % is like 5% on bot and like 20% in mid so I don't feel like I'm doing enough to actually jungle competently. [I usually have to be clutch to win solo que games regardless and any time I'm playing with friends we have a high ranked jungle with us so it's not an issue.]
I didn't really think of movement time or where their jungle was I just dumbly placed it down at a set time which now seems really dumb of me because you'd think I'd figure stuff like that out pretty early on. Haha~ |
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| D u o Canada. July 13 2012 06:57. Posts 245 | Profile # |
| All right, I was looking for some good support streams but no one says what they generally play in the twitch titles so what players should I follow so I can know when their streams are up? ^__^; |
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| Lmui Canada. July 13 2012 06:59. Posts 1888 | Profile # |
Nhat Nguyen
TSM Xpecial
Muffinqt
Spellsy
are the main high elo support players that I know. |
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| Evilmonkey. United States. July 13 2012 07:18. Posts 1468 | Profile Blog # |
Hey, I'm a support main and enjoy it alot. As recommended earlier, gp10 quints are a must, and when you can 0/9/21 on janna/soraka/sona is really good. If you have all the gold masteries, you can start with 4 greens which is really nice. I especially like it because blitz and leona have gotten so popular lately. Generally, depending on how well we are doing in lane, I tend to wait until I can afford philo stone and 1 or 2 wards for my first buy. Pink wards can also be extremely helpful for drag control, and tri control so your jungler can gank.
Rule of thumb is that keeping wards up is more important than getting your gold items so make sure you manage your buybacks well. While not ideal, one thing that helps conserve gold and wards is if your ad carry keeps the lane freezed at your tower. That way, one ward at tribush on blue side, and one river ward on purple side keep you pretty safe.
A really good resource I liked as I was starting out is if you can find Spellsy's powerpoint on supports in a reddit post he did. |
| | WWBD- What would Boxer do? |
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| Simberto Germany. July 13 2012 08:15. Posts 2563 | Profile Blog # |
Without both quints and masteries, obviously you don't have enough money. Quints and masteries alone are about 30% of your gold income as a support early on, and you can't really skip wards for gp10s ever, so if you get less money, that delays your gp10s even further, which then makes you have even less money. This in total means that you have to deal with having a lot less money then you usually would have, and there is no way around it.You could just be a dick and steal some money from your carry to solve that problem.
And i would really suggest that you check out some more aggressive supports, like taric/ali/leona. On lower levels, those lanes are usually amazing. |
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| sylverfyre United States. July 13 2012 10:39. Posts 4129 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 19:04 D u o wrote:
I won't be buying runes on my smurf until I hit level 20 so then I can just buy all the tier 3 runes. I don't find it ideal to waste IP on runes early on this way I can just get a whole page set up for my support generally everyone is bad enough that even if they have runes it won't make too much of a difference unless you're like solo top in a mirror or a bad match up.
I've tried jungling but I don't have enough lane knowledge to actually do really good at it. [Hence why I'm learning bot.] I got like a 80% gank rate on toplane cause thats what I play and I know what the people in the matchup are capable of doing and how much damage I have to deal and how long I generally have to CC for and what not. But my % is like 5% on bot and like 20% in mid so I don't feel like I'm doing enough to actually jungle competently. [I usually have to be clutch to win solo que games regardless and any time I'm playing with friends we have a high ranked jungle with us so it's not an issue.]
I didn't really think of movement time or where their jungle was I just dumbly placed it down at a set time which now seems really dumb of me because you'd think I'd figure stuff like that out pretty early on. Haha~
Buy tier 1 runes. The amount of IP you spend on tier 1 runes is so insignificant it isn't going to affect you buying a full runepage at level 20+ and still having IP to buy champions.
It's 15-30 IP per rune. 30*18 (the number of slots you have at level 19) is 540, + 1 quint for ~40-80. 600 IP to fill up on free stats. I suggest AD / Armor / MR / AD because you can use it on literally anyone (even AP characters autoattack for last hitting, but if you really feel like it you can get MPen marks) and it costs 15 IP per rune, so only 270 IP + the 80 IP quint.
Seriously, 350 for a full low-level page. That's the cost of a SINGLE Tier-3 rune, less than a bottom-cost-tier champion. Also, you can rune-recycle them into higher runes when you do get 20.
Edit: did I mention that Tier 1 runes are like 60% of a tier 3 rune in terms of stat magnitude?Last edit: 2012-07-13 10:46:18 |
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| Phrujbaz Netherlands. July 13 2012 11:04. Posts 506 | Profile Blog # |
(blasphemy, I know)
If you don't have runes/masteries yet coordinate with your AD carry to take some cs from him. A ward is 3-4 cs. If you're both still playing at low levels, you may even be able to take some CS that he would have missed anyway.
In 1.5 minute, 19 minions spawn. That means, after 15 minutes, you could have 171 CS. In low level games, it will be more like 71, means that 100 CS was lost. Considering that, I think it's OK for support to have 15 cs by 10 minute mark, especially if you can hit minions that your AD carry would have missed. |
| | Caution! Future approaching rapidly at a rate of about 60 seconds per minute. |
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| D u o Canada. July 13 2012 20:57. Posts 245 | Profile # |
Well again I'm duo queing with a friend who has like 1100 games, its not like I can steal many. I just want to improve because I know I'm not doing my full part, so I'd like to just take my play to the next level. I don't support in games I'm not duo que because it just feels like a waste a lot of people don't understand the farming concept.
Thanks for all the help though. TL LoL forums always so helpful ^__^Last edit: 2012-07-13 20:58:02 |
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