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| mitchdouble Canada. July 13 2012 04:39. Posts 21 | Profile # |
I think that series was staged, if you notice in game 1 nestea could have prevented it multiple times, i.e. he had 2 drones killing the scv, but he left when the scv had like 5hp and he didnt even go back to kill him... he then made spines and cancled them... seems staged imo.
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| | "I'm from saskatchatoon eh" |  |
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| Orek July 13 2012 04:50. Posts 1391 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 04:39 mitchdouble wrote:
I think that series was staged, if you notice in game 1 nestea could have prevented it multiple times, i.e. he had 2 drones killing the scv, but he left when the scv had like 5hp and he didnt even go back to kill him... he then made spines and cancled them... seems staged imo.
That's a very interesting point of view.
Yet, the situation is already controversial enough. It is courageous of you to bring in another controversial idea.Last edit: 2012-07-13 04:51:01 |
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| OhSix United States. July 13 2012 04:51. Posts 252 | Profile # |
| Byun should definitely NOT be blamed. It's obviously Gom's fault. No matter how you look at it, Byun broke no actual rules. He saw an advantage he could take, and took it. Do whatever it takes to win. No matter how "dishonorable" or whatever it seems. |
| | What you preach is worthless, your worship defeat the purpose, like president Bush taking bullets for the secret service. |  |
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| coolcor July 13 2012 04:53. Posts 500 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 03:12 Wroshe wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 03:07 Assirra wrote:
On July 13 2012 03:04 Wroshe wrote:
On July 13 2012 03:02 ragz_gt wrote:
On July 13 2012 02:59 Wroshe wrote:
On July 13 2012 02:54 Geiko wrote:
Wasn't everyone cheering for Nazgul when he used the Kulas Ravine blink exploit ?
Don't see why people are blaming Byun now ...
How was the Kulas Ravine an exploit? It just was something that people didn't think of before. Having said that I feel that laying the blame at Byun is just laughable; the only one to blame here is NesTea.
I don't think you can really "blame" Nestea. He reacted really poorly, but he is still the victim. GoMTV have all the responsibility to make sure their map is up to standard.
No absolutely not, of course NesTea is to blame for this. Let me ask you three simple yes or no questions. 1) Should it be a part of practicing for a series that you play on the maps that you are supposed to be playing? 2) Should NesTea have paused the game as soon as he noticed that the map was wrong? 3) Should NesTea have pulled more then two drones to defend an 11/11 rax; regardless of what map it was or where the bunkers were placed? Now if you say yes to any of these questions: how can you claim it isn't NesTea's mistake?
You keep copy pasting this when your first question is simply wrong. You won't practice on a map/version that shouldn't be in the tournament to begin with.
You should of course practice on the official map hosted by the official hosting account. Because that is the map that you will be playing on, unless you notice it is wrong and decide to tell the organization about that. By deciding to not practice on the official map you accept the risk that you are playing on another map, regardless whether that fault is made by you or the tournament. Also the wording 'keep copy pasting' is quite interesting considering it's the first and only time I have copy pasted them. The reasoning behind that is because the main point still stands: NesTea fucked up by not knowing it beforehand but most of all not doing anything during the match.
People say teams should practice on the official GSL map version, but don't pros like to play custom games of versions of the maps edited to hide build order and winner information on battlenet to prevent opponents from looking at what they are planning and practicing? If the official GSL tournament version doesn't do this (does anybody know?) I think it is wrong to say that teams should have to take a risk in order to practice in secret because then you are forcing them to take a bigger risk if their opponents find out some of the team's accounts they practice on.
Neither of those risks should be part of the tournament.
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| Fragile51 Netherlands. July 13 2012 04:57. Posts 15571 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 04:50 Orek wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 04:39 mitchdouble wrote:
I think that series was staged, if you notice in game 1 nestea could have prevented it multiple times, i.e. he had 2 drones killing the scv, but he left when the scv had like 5hp and he didnt even go back to kill him... he then made spines and cancled them... seems staged imo.
That's a very interesting point of view. Yet, the situation is already controversial enough. It is courageous of you to bring in another controversial idea.
And by interesting i hope you mean completely fucking retarded..
User was temp banned for this post. |
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| Swords July 13 2012 05:00. Posts 1298 | Profile Blog # |
The only way I can really see someone blaming Byun here is he saw the map had no depot beforehand (unlike ever other GSL map used for the past year), and instead of saying "hey, this map doesn't have a neutral supply depot" and reporting it he took that knowledge and used it to catch Nestea off guard.
I don't really know if there's a good analogy for this. It'd sort of be like finding a loophole in the rulebook and instead of saying "hey that's fucked up" you use the loophole to your advantage. The problem is he knew beforehand and said nothing about it.
I still don't really blame Byun for what happened. The tournament admins should've immediately recognized the map was missing its' neutral supply depot and immediately regamed. Hell, the admins could've done it when the bunker went down. I don't think anyone would've had any way to argue against the admins stopping the game and saying "Whoa, this map is not standard." It shouldn't be on Byun to police the GSL map pool. |
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 HaXXspetten Sweden. July 13 2012 05:02. Posts 15716 | Profile Blog # |
On July 13 2012 04:39 mitchdouble wrote:
I think that series was staged, if you notice in game 1 nestea could have prevented it multiple times, i.e. he had 2 drones killing the scv, but he left when the scv had like 5hp and he didnt even go back to kill him... he then made spines and cancled them... seems staged imo.
I'm honestly impressed at how vivid your imagination must be if it was able to make this up in your head to the point that you'd actually believe it yourself. |
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| IshinShishi Japan. July 13 2012 05:03. Posts 3386 | Profile # |
| I don't think this warrants a thread, just stirs up unnecessary drama since Nestea himself could've paused the game if he had been taken by surprise, which obviously didn't happen, even if he had, it's his fault for not preparing, also, Byun completely, utterly outplayed Nestea in the following games and using the tilt excuse for such an experienced player is just laughable, keep on trying to take this away from Byun tho, I want to laugh more. Last edit: 2012-07-13 05:05:47 |
| | and my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor shall be lifted—nevermore |  |
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| rhs408 United States. July 13 2012 05:06. Posts 684 | Profile # |
| Yea I was wondering about this, that was pretty ruthless by Byun to take advantage of the missing depot. |
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| OhSix United States. July 13 2012 05:08. Posts 252 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 05:06 rhs408 wrote:
Yea I was wondering about this, that was pretty ruthless by Byun to take advantage of the missing depot.
Being ruthless is what wins you games. (:
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| | What you preach is worthless, your worship defeat the purpose, like president Bush taking bullets for the secret service. | |
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| Dosey United States. July 13 2012 05:09. Posts 3981 | Profile # |
| Should ByuN be punished? No. But he should be held accountable and (considering his past) deserves scrutiny. It was an obvious "bug" in the map as it wasn't announced and to take advantage of it in one of the biggest tournaments in SC2 is VERY underhanded. Not only that, but the map maker should be under investigation after this incident. He edited a map and implemented a change without testing it and didn't inform the rest of the staff. Both of these aspects sound extremely fishy to me, especially if you are going to say "it's a known bug" and then go on to not even test it... |
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| Fragile51 Netherlands. July 13 2012 05:09. Posts 15571 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 05:00 Swords wrote:
The only way I can really see someone blaming Byun here is he saw the map had no depot beforehand (unlike ever other GSL map used for the past year), and instead of saying "hey, this map doesn't have a neutral supply depot" and reporting it he took that knowledge and used it to catch Nestea off guard.
I don't really know if there's a good analogy for this. It'd sort of be like finding a loophole in the rulebook and instead of saying "hey that's fucked up" you use the loophole to your advantage. The problem is he knew beforehand and said nothing about it.
I still don't really blame Byun for what happened. The tournament admins should've immediately recognized the map was missing its' neutral supply depot and immediately regamed. Hell, the admins could've done it when the bunker went down. I don't think anyone would've had any way to argue against the admins stopping the game and saying "Whoa, this map is not standard." It shouldn't be on Byun to police the GSL map pool.
Again, blaming only byun for that is nonsensical. There have been dozens of other games on this version of metalopolis this GSL and GSTL season, why should he be blamed for it when it should have been reported about 20 times already? |
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| dvorakftw July 13 2012 05:10. Posts 508 | Profile Blog # |
On July 13 2012 00:33 IdrA wrote:
byun is most definitely the bad guy.
its the same thing as pushing a guy down and kicking him in the balls because you realize the ref isnt looking.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Hey, let's call ByuN's sponsors.
Also he should apologize for playing that race. |
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| Ollix United States. July 13 2012 05:13. Posts 17 | Profile # |
| People are right, it absolutely is GOM's fault. But how is it not Byuns' fault as well? In almost every competitive video game, bug abuse is against the rules and wrong. If he really did knowingly plan this strategy, that's pretty majorly unethical. |
| | I bled blue until 5/9/2012 |  |
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| ore0z Romania. July 13 2012 05:17. Posts 136 | Profile # |
Goddamn, found it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=26924
37) 2001 SKY OSL 1st game incident - It was Boxer vs Garimto in the SKY OSL finals. The map was Incubus and at the middle of the game, Boxer's dropship is roaming around an island that was next to Garimto's nat. People thought this weird because the dropship never did anything. Later it was found that the version of Incubus that Boxer received from OGN to practice on allowed a tank to be dropped on the spot. But the version of Incubus that was used in the finals didn't allow the drop. Boxer lost that game and eventually lost 2:3 to Garimto, making Garimto the first ever protoss user to win 2 OSL titles.
That said, I think it's GOM's fault, but Nestea still probably knew about it. |
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| Destiny United States. July 13 2012 05:19. Posts 234 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 02:36 Fragile51 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:16 Ansinjunger wrote:
On July 13 2012 00:33 IdrA wrote:
byun is most definitely the bad guy. it does not matter if nestea was going to lose anyway, he probably was, and it doesnt matter if that version of the map was available for practice, although if it was nestea should have brought it up beforehand.
the bunker block is something that has been actively prevented on every map for the last year of competition. it is something that the community has collectively decided is unfair and the maps for every legitimate tournament have blocked it since, including every other version of metropolis.
for him to see that and plan on using it is utterly fucked up. its the same thing as pushing a guy down and kicking him in the balls because you realize the ref isnt looking. the only reason ramp blocking isnt explicitly banned in rules is because the community would get stupid about "banning a strategy" and its easily dealt with with map editting.
I was wondering if IdrA would post on this, and I more or less agree. I find it disturbing that Byun would hide something of this nature. If it was someone who didn't just recover from a previous scandal (the Byun/Coca one, if a reader doesn't know), then there would be less scrutiny. "you probably shouldn't have done that." But now it's strike # 2. It's all the more ironic that he would notice this during a game vs Coca. I don't think Byun deserves any official punishment, but a rule of thumb should probably be put into place: "if you notice something is wrong with map, don't hide it." Wording it that way, I kinda thought such a rule already existed. As to NesTea, maybe he doesn't like making official complaints, maybe he was flustered. Maybe some random thought told him: "I'm better than Byun and this doesn't really matter," only to have that completely blow up in his face. Who knows? It's really impossible to prove who would have won, one way or the other, but I think given the overall performance (I didn't see any of tonight's games, but reading the comments of others, and knowing the final score), Byun would have won anyway. Edit: Also, it's GOM's fault too/their mapmaker person, but that should go without saying, yet I feel someone will "remind" me
It was an honest mistake, which can always happen.
If it was an honest mistake, that sucks for Nestea, but it's legitimate. The fact that he noticed this (clearly buggy) aspect of the map and planned on abusing in game makes him a scumbag.
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| | To achieve perfection is to sacrifice growth. |
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| legoboomette England. July 13 2012 05:19. Posts 121 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 05:13 Ollix wrote:
People are right, it absolutely is GOM's fault. But how is it not Byuns' fault as well? In almost every competitive video game, bug abuse is against the rules and wrong. If he really did knowingly plan this strategy, that's pretty majorly unethical.
In almost every competitive game, bugs are actually used to their fullest extent (e.g most fps such as quake or cs with strafejump, or even scbw with stuff like muta-stacking etc, all these are bugs). Yes it is GOM's fault, but no way is it Byun's fault, who didn't cheat in any way. |
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| Figgy Canada. July 13 2012 05:19. Posts 1290 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 03:06 ragz_gt wrote:
It's def his mistake, that doesn't mean it's his fault.
If some guy threaten you with a stick, and you jump out the window of third floor break 10 bones, that does not make it your fault, you just made dumb decisions that made the situation worse.
Or if someone swivels into your lane while driving, you panics and slams on the break, causing the car behind you to hit you, does that make it your fault?
It was the Firefighters fault for removing the trampoline that I was supposed to land on even though it was blatently obvious before jumping it was no longer there but I had 10 other things on my mind to notice  Last edit: 2012-07-13 05:20:03 |
| | Bug Fixes Fixed an issue where, when facing a SlayerS terran, completing a hatchery would cause a medivac and 8 marines to randomly spawn nearby and attack it. |
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| rhs408 United States. July 13 2012 05:24. Posts 684 | Profile # |
| Thinking about this a bit more I really feel for Nestea, I can only imagine how much he was raging inside when two bunkers somehow blocked his entire ramp. And for that to happen on the very first game, how could he not be a bit tilted for the rest of the series. Quite a shame, hopefully GOM never lets this happen again. |
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| stratmatt United States. July 13 2012 05:24. Posts 755 | Profile # |
| i still say the neutral supply depots are dumb. sc2 is at a level where people shouldnt be interfering with maps to prevent certain strategies from working when the players themselves could hold them off. even with the "bug"(not really a bug), nestea could have held that off fine and completely blew it. |
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