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[Role] Support

Forum Index > League of Legends 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 All
 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 15:43. Posts 1888
Profile # 
Hi guys, I'm a ~1600 player that plays everything and decided to try and start a topic for dedicated support discussion. I am not a dedicated support player, therefore, feel free to question or deviate from anything contained in here. This is intended to be a starting point. This is also a work in progress. The OP will continue to be updated over the course of the next few weeks until it reaches a point I'm satisfied with.

[image loading]

I have near 60% winrates with my top three supports, sona, soraka and janna.

What is a Support?

+ Show Spoiler +

What does a Support do?

+ Show Spoiler +

Which champions are Supports?

+ Show Spoiler +

Runes

+ Show Spoiler +

Masteries:

+ Show Spoiler +

Summoner Spells

+ Show Spoiler +

Items:



Opening items:

+ Show Spoiler +

Other items

+ Show Spoiler +


Playstyle:

+ Show Spoiler +
Last edit: 2012-08-17 10:09:47
Old Post

 
 GhandiEAGLE   United States. July 13 2012 15:47. Posts 3942
Profile Blog # 
I would suggest adding Lux to common supports used, she is getting fairly popular lately. At least at my ELO
I'm your only friend I'm not your only friend but I'm a little glowing friend but really I'm not actually your friend but I am
Old Post

 
 Feartheguru   Canada. July 13 2012 15:47. Posts 760
Profile # 
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.
Don't sweat the petty stuff, don't pet the sweaty stuff.
Old Post

 
 schmutttt   Australia. July 13 2012 16:04. Posts 1575
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.
Old Post

 
 Feartheguru   Canada. July 13 2012 16:12. Posts 760
Profile # 
Does having a good runepage for support make a big difference? I only have like 20 champs and 2 rune pages so I'm too cheap get one for support but i can definitely see the extra gold and armor from reds having an impact.
Don't sweat the petty stuff, don't pet the sweaty stuff.
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 16:16. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 15:47 Feartheguru wrote:
Anyone else have the issue that their support skill is miles below their skill at other roles? I'm 1600 elo right now but my supporting skills are pretty much 1k elo level. No matter what I try to do as support I feed every game., both in lane and teamfights.


Play more support. If you're at 1600 ELO, you have no excuse for playing support at anything under the 1500 level. There's is no reason that you should make it up there playing only one or two roles exclusively. If you have to force yourself to learn, play soraka, sit a little behind your ad and just heal them and give them mana. Just doing that puts you into 1400s. Easily. If you ward bottom lane and use exhaust at appropriate moments, you bump yourself up to 1600 with no issues. There's nothing inherently difficult about playing any support since most supports are point and click.

Edit::



On July 13 2012 15:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I would suggest adding Lux to common supports used, she is getting fairly popular lately. At least at my ELO


I do not feel that Lux is a particularly good support. Her shield takes time to travel and is a skillshot, as are her CCs. It's the one support spell that is easy and possible for your teammates to dodge. In addition, snares and slows aren't as good as stuns. Sona fulfills much the same role with a stronger, lower cooldown and more reliable poke. Leona provides stronger CC and higher kill potential. Both are nearer to the ends of the spectrum than lux but overall I think their kits are better suited to the support role than lux's is.
Last edit: 2012-07-13 16:55:47
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 16:20. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 16:12 Feartheguru wrote:
Does having a good runepage for support make a big difference? I only have like 20 champs and 2 rune pages so I'm too cheap get one for support but i can definitely see the extra gold and armor from reds having an impact.


It helps a huge amount as far as money goes but overall, it means you get a 9-10 minute philostone instead of an 8 minute philostone. It's a difference but not a gamechanger. You can either use your AP carry page which is good on any of the ranged supports (sona/janna/soraka/lulu) since their poke can do stupid amounts of damage early or you can use an AD page on supports like alistar, taric, etc and do much more damage when you initiate. You might be doing less overall for your team lategame since shurelya's/aegis make such a huge difference once the teamfight stage rolls around but your early game could potentially be stronger. I highly recommend that you get a total of at least 4 runepages if you want to be serious about playing ranked since a top bruiser+AD carry page, AP page, jungler page and a support page are the 4 basic pages that most other pages are built off of.
Old Post

 
 Morfildur   Germany. July 13 2012 16:30. Posts 3488
Profile Blog # 

On July 13 2012 16:12 Feartheguru wrote:
Does having a good runepage for support make a big difference? I only have like 20 champs and 2 rune pages so I'm too cheap get one for support but i can definitely see the extra gold and armor from reds having an impact.


Extra gold is vital imho, otherwise you can't keep up with the needs for wards while also getting all the other stuff in an acceptable time.

Keeping 2 wards up all the time costs 8.3g/10 (150g/180s), your natural gold is 13g/10, so basically two thirds of your base income is used up for wards which delays your gp10 items for an eternity unless you ward less - which would make you a bad support. With runes it's 8.3 of 18.25, so less than half your income, making warding more affordable without cutting too much into your other budget.

I use a single armor marks, gp10 seals, mana regen glyphs and gp10 quints runepage for all supports.
"Remember kids, the 3 most important things for becoming a good player: Micro, Macro and always take your Dailies!" - Rastaban
Old Post

 
 Sponkz   Denmark. July 13 2012 16:48. Posts 796
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 16:04 schmutttt wrote:

Show nested quote +



Support is the easiest role in the game, no offence but I always find it bizarre that people (Especially around 1600 and over) cant support well. My winrates are all really high (Except Taric) on support, maybe my point of view is wrong since I had to main support for about 40 games of premade 5s because no-one else would do it.

Seriously aside from Alistar and blitz I don't think support takes much real skill at all, and even for those champs you just have to hit pulls or combos and you are already a good support. People are just too selfish in solo q and refuse to support 99% of the time because they think they have to play a carry role to win, then they get last pick in a few games, are forced to support and are like WTF THIS IS HARD because they literally have less than 10 games as support ever.



You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0
If something's hard to do, it's not worth doing
Old Post

 
 Milestone   United States. July 13 2012 16:56. Posts 111
Profile # 
I'll try to add in a lot of missing stuff...

Masteries:
21-9-0 (Leona, Taric, Blitzcrank for example), 1-21-8 (Everybody). Rarely I actually go a 9-0-21 set up with 10% cdr (SoS is also nice~) when you are the aggressor with passive spells (Soraka + Ezreal / Graves)
And get the Sage mastery please...

Runes: I think 15 AD is very nice on supports (with 21-9-0) that naturally deal damage with auto attacks together with your carry. Blitzcrank's powerfist in combination with your overdrive (a slow would also be good) can chase the enemy while dishing out the damages. Leona has an auto-reset with her Q so that would basically mean you deal 45 extra damage (of course more with the 21 offense set up) along with your AD carry burst damage.

Items: Zeke's Herald should be added in there. Will of the Ancients is super good at times. Boots is usually a choice among Merc Treads, Boots5, CDR Boots, or Tabi.

Openings: Faerie charm is of course a safer item start because of Philo stone. But the actual gain from that item is 100 mana every 3 minutes (mana potion every 3 minutes). I think with super aggressive laning set ups faerie charm should be disregarded for an all-consumable starting build. I'll only list the 475 startings (515 u can do the math...)

1pink 2 green 5 potions: Particularly against a lane that can fight back and with one less ward you can only stay for 6-7 minutes maximum. Need to make use of your consumables in a short time so look for fights and kills while making use of only 3 wards.

1pink 3 green 3 potions: a more bitchy set up to stay longer and you are against a lane that can't really fight back. Because the goal is to stay longer and pressure the enemy harder be more conservative with the pink so you can effectively use it for almost the full duration. This is good if you plan to stick around in the enemy's tower for a good 6 minutes because the enemy can't fight back (and you should harass them to make the jungler hesitant to gank for a 300hp ad carry).
Last edit: 2012-07-13 17:02:11
MCMilo - Wins of the Day baybee
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 17:14. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 16:48 Sponkz wrote:

Show nested quote +




You're just strictly talking about the laning phase, and even there, you can get fucked by a support if he/she starts denying you map control around tri-brush/dragon area despite being able to do good with certain champions. I feel that most people don't wanna play support, because they're used to the "i buy items, i kill" kinda mindset and that just isn't happening as a support because you'll be playing champions in the sub-optimal manner with gp10, ward/oracle pressure and aura based items.


To OP:

I don't understand why you would get the mastery "Scout". It's 5% extra vision, and someone posted a before and after picture here on TL some time ago, and you can't really see any difference at all. Also i think you should add up the 1/15/14 mastery page. It has become extremely popular lately on bruiser supports.

http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-2-4-0-2-1-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-1-0-3-1-0-3-0-4-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0



On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.
Old Post

 
 Ryuu314   United States. July 13 2012 17:37. Posts 5310
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 17:14 Lmui wrote:

Show nested quote +



On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.

Don't get scout. Get reduced time dead or more mana. Scout is LITERALLY useless.

I'm not going to dig up the picture right now, but a while back someone took screenshots of ward vision with scout and ward vision without scout. There is at most like 5 pixels of difference in vision between the two.

To be more specific. Wards have a sight range of 1100. Scout increases vision by 5%. That's an extra 55 range. For reference, melee champs have a range of 125. You increase your sight range by less than what is considered melee range. Scout is useless.
Last edit: 2012-07-13 17:40:41
Cogito ergo doleo
Old Post

 
 Sponkz   Denmark. July 13 2012 17:52. Posts 796
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 17:14 Lmui wrote:

Show nested quote +



On most of my characters, I either get 4 points into MS or none at all. Half a percentage point moves you nowhere faster. It's worth 1.5ms. Scout isn't much but I feel it's more useful than the other available place to put that point.

I'll add the 1/15/14 though, it gives every major support mastery in utility besides the 21st point, gets the 10 resist shred and is slightly tankier to boot, thanks for the insight.


Try the improved recall. You'd be amazed at how many times that saves your life ^^
If something's hard to do, it's not worth doing
Old Post

 
 wei2coolman   United States. July 13 2012 17:55. Posts 9650
Profile # 
I'd like to add some stuff in terms of opening items.

Fcharm + 4 wards
situation: When you know this is going to be a prolonged farm lane, with absolutely no kill potential from both sides, that means it'll be a while before you get a chance to go back.

Fcharm + vision + 2regular wards + pot.
situation: where denying vision for strong lvl 2, or lvl 4 ganks for your jungler. I like this opening when I have a jungle lee sin, that is going to give a good lvl 2 or lvl 3 gank.
-Also good as offensive support at lvl 2, it can deny bush vision in lane, thus making your presence much more deadly.

Boots + ward + pot
-I don't like running this. This is as close to balls to the walls, for lvl 2-lvl3 kill advantage. So for example, if you're running a taric+corki lane, or leona/graves, or some combo that is almost unbeatable due to sheer strength advantage due to lvl 2, this is a good opening for that. So if you see a combo of like ashe+sona lane, and you're running taric+corki, or taric+urgot, or leona+graves, leona+etc etc, Boots+ ward+pot isn't a bad opening. Just make sure when you do your actions you don't gank'd mid action.

regrowth+ pot
-not a bad start, if lane is a farm lane, with possible weak poke from enemy. So if the enemy lane is sona+ashe, you could probably get away with starting regrowth + pot, while playing passive.
Curse & Doublelift fanboi.
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 17:56. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 16:56 Milestone wrote:
I'll try to add in a lot of missing stuff...

Masteries:
21-9-0 (Leona, Taric, Blitzcrank for example), 1-21-8 (Everybody). Rarely I actually go a 9-0-21 set up with 10% cdr (SoS is also nice~) when you are the aggressor with passive spells (Soraka + Ezreal / Graves)
And get the Sage mastery please...

Runes: I think 15 AD is very nice on supports (with 21-9-0) that naturally deal damage with auto attacks together with your carry. Blitzcrank's powerfist in combination with your overdrive (a slow would also be good) can chase the enemy while dishing out the damages. Leona has an auto-reset with her Q so that would basically mean you deal 45 extra damage (of course more with the 21 offense set up) along with your AD carry burst damage.

Items: Zeke's Herald should be added in there. Will of the Ancients is super good at times. Boots is usually a choice among Merc Treads, Boots5, CDR Boots, or Tabi.

Openings: Faerie charm is of course a safer item start because of Philo stone. But the actual gain from that item is 100 mana every 3 minutes (mana potion every 3 minutes). I think with super aggressive laning set ups faerie charm should be disregarded for an all-consumable starting build. I'll only list the 475 startings (515 u can do the math...)

1pink 2 green 5 potions: Particularly against a lane that can fight back and with one less ward you can only stay for 6-7 minutes maximum. Need to make use of your consumables in a short time so look for fights and kills while making use of only 3 wards.

1pink 3 green 3 potions: a more bitchy set up to stay longer and you are against a lane that can't really fight back. Because the goal is to stay longer and pressure the enemy harder be more conservative with the pink so you can effectively use it for almost the full duration. This is good if you plan to stick around in the enemy's tower for a good 6 minutes because the enemy can't fight back (and you should harass them to make the jungler hesitant to gank for a 300hp ad carry).



21/0/9 isn't viable on a support. No support gets enough money to build enough damage that getting more than 9 points in offense would benefit them in a meaningful way later in the game. I forgot zeke's herald and I'll add that.
Will of the ancients isn't particularly good on a support since the price increase. Revolver doesn't help any support but sona and lux and 2300 for an item that benefits only your AP carry(s) is a waste compared to getting a aegis or even zekes. In team compositions with two AP carries, they generally involve having kennen or vladimir or rumble, all of which build WotA. 9 points is the maximum I'd recommend putting in offense

Losing out on the passive gold gain in the utility tree hurts a lot with any mastery setup that doesn't involve having the gold gain. If you cannot capitalize on the advantage that having more offensive masteries gives you, you're gimping yourself later in the game.

If you're planning on playing aggressively early, boots+3 is the most offensive a support should ever go

Openings where you get more than two potions are generally detrimental to your play. There is no normal lane that puts out enough harass in a normal game that you need to extra pots to stay in lane. Generally, when you want to seriously go for a kill, you're going to blow all your offensive summoners. namely exhaust and your AD carry's ignite. If that fails, you're going to have to wait four minutes before you can try again. If it succeeds, you get to push your lane and base. Either way, the potions aren't going to see serious use. The one or two potions that a support generally buys is for incidental damage taken from one or two autoattacks while they're either poking or trying to maintain bush control.
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 17:57. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 17:55 wei2coolman wrote:
I'd like to add some stuff in terms of opening items.

Fcharm + 4 wards
situation: When you know this is going to be a prolonged farm lane, with absolutely no kill potential from both sides, that means it'll be a while before you get a chance to go back.

Fcharm + vision + 2regular wards + pot.
situation: where denying vision for strong lvl 2, or lvl 4 ganks for your jungler. I like this opening when I have a jungle lee sin, that is going to give a good lvl 2 or lvl 3 gank.
-Also good as offensive support at lvl 2, it can deny bush vision in lane, thus making your presence much more deadly.

Boots + ward + pot
-I don't like running this. This is as close to balls to the walls, for lvl 2-lvl3 kill advantage. So for example, if you're running a taric+corki lane, or leona/graves, or some combo that is almost unbeatable due to sheer strength advantage due to lvl 2, this is a good opening for that. So if you see a combo of like ashe+sona lane, and you're running taric+corki, or taric+urgot, or leona+graves, leona+etc etc, Boots+ ward+pot isn't a bad opening. Just make sure when you do your actions you don't gank'd mid action.

regrowth+ pot
-not a bad start, if lane is a farm lane, with possible weak poke from enemy. So if the enemy lane is sona+ashe, you could probably get away with starting regrowth + pot, while playing passive.


Added regrowth + pot. I might want to reposition where I put the opening items section since I stuck it under playstyle >.>
Old Post

 
 wei2coolman   United States. July 13 2012 18:01. Posts 9650
Profile # 
As far as runes/masteries are concerned. It really depends on how you want to play out the lane.

I duo queue with my friend as support, pretty often. We run ridiculous lvl 2-3 kill lanes.
For example Taric/Graves as my lane.
As taric, I'll run mpen reds, armor yellows, armor blues (or mr blues, depending on enemies), and gp10 quints.
Masteries will be 9/0/21. Running exhaust+flash.

Essentially lvl 2-3 will be balls to the walls engage.

Or if it's a more defensive lane, just due to strong early game jungle presence or what not.
run 0/9/21, with armor reds, gp10 gold, armor blue, gp10 quints.


Some supports people should try out, Kennen, Anivia, Lee Sin, Morgana.
Curse & Doublelift fanboi.
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 18:05. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 17:37 Ryuu314 wrote:

Show nested quote +


Don't get scout. Get reduced time dead or more mana. Scout is LITERALLY useless.

I'm not going to dig up the picture right now, but a while back someone took screenshots of ward vision with scout and ward vision without scout. There is at most like 5 pixels of difference in vision between the two.

To be more specific. Wards have a sight range of 1100. Scout increases vision by 5%. That's an extra 55 range. For reference, melee champs have a range of 125. You increase your sight range by less than what is considered melee range. Scout is useless.


I added a note to it. I'm not going to the effort of changing the picture associated with it though.
Old Post

 
 wei2coolman   United States. July 13 2012 18:08. Posts 9650
Profile # 
Just some thoughts on vision wards. I find them being used on bot lane far too often in the current meta.

Unless your lane is in dire needs for a gank, which it shouldn't be, vision wards are pretty useless. Otherwise you're denying vision, for actions that won't happen. The main goal for the botlane (which should essentially be a farm island), is just to get farm for your AD carry. Adding a vision ward doesn't add any ability for your AD carry to farm, that a regular ward wouldn't.

I'm pretty conservative on vision ward usage, the only thing that should be pink'd during laning phase is dragon, and possibly blue buff., or if you're begging for a gank, then pink to deny vision. Or if you're running leona/blitz/taric, where denying bush vision is key to a strong burst offensive gank combo.


Also some thoughts on playstyle on botlane. I'm actually a huge fucking fan of pushing the shit of your lane, and just ward correctly and excessively. (unless enemy jungler is something like rammus/hecarim).
Last edit: 2012-07-13 18:14:54
Curse & Doublelift fanboi.
Old Post

 
 Lmui   Canada. July 13 2012 18:26. Posts 1888
Profile # 

On July 13 2012 18:08 wei2coolman wrote:
Just some thoughts on vision wards. I find them being used on bot lane far too often in the current meta.

Unless your lane is in dire needs for a gank, which it shouldn't be, vision wards are pretty useless. Otherwise you're denying vision, for actions that won't happen. The main goal for the botlane (which should essentially be a farm island), is just to get farm for your AD carry. Adding a vision ward doesn't add any ability for your AD carry to farm, that a regular ward wouldn't.

I'm pretty conservative on vision ward usage, the only thing that should be pink'd during laning phase is dragon, and possibly blue buff., or if you're begging for a gank, then pink to deny vision.


Also some thoughts on playstyle on botlane. I'm actually a huge fucking fan of pushing the shit of your lane, and just ward correctly and excessively. (unless enemy jungler is something like rammus/hecarim).


Playing aggressive supports such as leona/blitzcrank/alistar paired with similarly bursty ADs such as graves/trist/corki, you absolutely want to open with a vision ward + 2 greens. If you've ever laned against a good coordinated combo, they can 100-0 you through summoner heal before you have a chance to flash. They can take over your near lane bush (their far), pink it and zone you from creeps for 3 minutes or kill you and zone you for longer than that. If you have no vision of the champion, it's many times harder to react to a zenith blade/blitz hook or alistar hittting level 2 and seemingly randomly flash+exhaust+pulving you before headbutting you away from tower and you should abuse that.

It's also much better to have a vision ward on you if your jungler is maokai, nautilus or a similar jungler with heavy CC that can guarantee a kill if they can get onto someone since you can guarantee them a way in.

As far as pushing as aggressively as possible, that's actually the optimal way to play botlane since you are essentially immune to lane ganks, the other team has a difficult time trying to last hit and deal with the harass you can put out onto them. It's much easier to do on purple side than on blue since you don't have to worry about tribush. On blue, if you push that far and you see the jungler at tri, he will reach you when you're just past midlane and you will die if the jungler has serious CC. On purple side pushing hard, if you have a river ward, you're safe until you're almost midway along their lane bush. It's a pretty big difference in the safezone you have to stay safe while pushing in.
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