Mad Men Mafia - Page 37

IRC
[20:15:13] <Toad|> okay
[20:15:15] <Toad|> sooo
[20:15:31] <Hassybaby> hey
[20:15:31] <Toad|> sup
[20:15:38] <Toad|> stupid skype 8(
[20:15:45] <Toad|> I apparently have an old account
[20:15:45] <Hassybaby> wait
[20:15:51] <Hassybaby> I was suppsoed to add you on skype?
[20:16:00] <Toad|> what did you think?
[20:16:04] <Hassybaby> LOL
[20:16:10] <Hassybaby> I was adding you on Steam ._.
[20:16:13] <Toad|> LOL
[20:16:37] <Toad|> why would I want to use steam to chat 8(
[20:16:44] <Hassybaby> I don't know

[20:16:51] <Hassybaby> wait why are there two of you
[20:16:58] <Toad|> yeah
[20:17:02] <Toad|> Toadesstern is the right one
[20:17:05] <Toad|> Toad is an old one
[20:17:10] <Hassybaby> ah ok
[20:17:17] <Hassybaby> that explains why you couldn't find m
[20:17:22] <Hassybaby> i'm XXX-censored-XXX on skype
[20:17:30] <Toad|> got it

Skype
[03.08.2012 20:17:33] Hassy: OHAI
[03.08.2012 20:17:45] Erik: finally
[03.08.2012 20:18:01] Erik: okay, so do you have an idea on what's going on?
[03.08.2012 20:18:08] Hassy: lets see
[03.08.2012 20:18:11] Erik: you said you didn't have time because of olympics
[03.08.2012 20:18:18] Hassy: some discussion about whether masons should claim or not
[03.08.2012 20:18:27] Hassy: eran and wbg having a pissing contest
[03.08.2012 20:18:51] Hassy: was a very general read so I need to go back and have another look
[03.08.2012 20:18:57] Hassy: anything major that you can think of?
[03.08.2012 20:19:05] Erik: not really
[03.08.2012 20:19:18] Erik: a lot of weird stuff but I don't know why it's weird though
[03.08.2012 20:19:46] Erik: like the case prplhz did on glasse was literally the worst thing I ever saw
[03.08.2012 20:20:01] Erik: and I was sure he did that on purpose to fish for reactions, and he just said he meant it
[03.08.2012 20:20:31] Hassy: wait, that was serious?
[03.08.2012 20:20:55] Hassy: I thoguht it was part of the "herp Day 1" shit that was going on, and he was gaugig reactions
[03.08.2012 20:21:03] Erik: exactly my thoughts
[03.08.2012 20:21:17] Erik: I thought he's testing glasse's reactions
[03.08.2012 20:21:33] Erik: or if someone else joins him saying some shit like "yo dude, totally agree, lynch that guy"
[03.08.2012 20:22:48] Erik: on top of that we got VE who's acting weird, like always
[03.08.2012 20:22:54] Erik: WBG acting weird
[03.08.2012 20:23:00] Hassy: I'm waiting for VE to role claim randomly
[03.08.2012 20:23:06] Hassy: then i can decide his alignment
[03.08.2012 20:23:08] Erik: wbg claimed for him
[03.08.2012 20:23:12] Erik: VE is a mason
[03.08.2012 20:23:16] Hassy: awww
[03.08.2012 20:23:35] Hassy: actually that was pretty weird in my eyes
[03.08.2012 20:24:03] Hassy: bugs instantly calmiing the mason, then eran masoning bugs straight after
[03.08.2012 20:24:11] Erik: yeah
[03.08.2012 20:24:32] Erik: especially since Eran said that masons shouldn't care about who they mason and just mason someone influential
[03.08.2012 20:24:47] Hassy: here's how I see his move
[03.08.2012 20:24:55] Erik: so from that I thought Eran would just mason WBG from the get go, but only did it later
[03.08.2012 20:25:07] Hassy: 1. He picked beforehand who he was masoning, and even with the series of events he was like "fuck it i'm sticknig with the strat"
[03.08.2012 20:25:12] Hassy: 2. He wanted to be outed
[03.08.2012 20:25:21] Hassy: 3. He didnt think it through
[03.08.2012 20:25:40] Hassy: I want to say 1, but still....
[03.08.2012 20:25:55] Erik: I actually believee him when he says he wanted to test wbg
[03.08.2012 20:26:08] Erik: but I'd say it was stupid so it's 3 for me
[03.08.2012 20:26:33] Erik: I could actually see WBG claiming for VE, as metnioned VE likes to claim so might as well get over with it
[03.08.2012 20:26:49] Erik: like thinking "well, he's going to claim anyways so I might claim for him"
[03.08.2012 20:26:55] Erik: but that's not true for Eran
[03.08.2012 20:27:07] Hassy: that's a weird way of doing it though
[03.08.2012 20:27:16] Erik: so I really have no idea what wbg is doing
[03.08.2012 20:27:22] Hassy: it's like...you know he's going to do it and in generaly t means nothing about his alignment
[03.08.2012 20:27:26] Hassy: so....just let him
[03.08.2012 20:27:36] Hassy: on the flip side he's now associated with VE
[03.08.2012 20:28:01] Erik: yeah it's really weird
[03.08.2012 20:28:18] Erik: but I could think of something that makes outing VE neutral and not anti-town
[03.08.2012 20:28:37] Erik: however I can't think of a reason to out eran from WBG's point of view
[03.08.2012 20:29:12] Erik: I guess best thing is to just watch and see what happens
[03.08.2012 20:29:25] Erik: if WBG / Eran / VE are town they'll die themselves just fine lol
[03.08.2012 20:30:06] Hassy: already posting targets ont heir heads, so yay
[03.08.2012 20:30:30] Erik: those 3 really shouldn't be an issue
[03.08.2012 20:30:48] Erik: if WBG is still alive at the start of d3 he's going to get insta-lynched.
[03.08.2012 20:30:58] Erik: While mislynching into those would be bad
[03.08.2012 20:31:14] Hassy: yeah i see that thinking
[03.08.2012 20:31:53] Erik: I'm feeling really paranoid this game

[03.08.2012 20:32:11] Hassy: I'm feeling confused, but i'm dehydrated from fasting
[03.08.2012 20:32:25] Erik: I got a bad feeling on VE and prplhz and WBG is at least strange
[03.08.2012 20:32:34] Erik: They're hardly all 3 mafia lol
[03.08.2012 20:32:41] Hassy: Op as hell if they are...
[03.08.2012 20:33:00] Hassy: I dunno, I think for now they're all just acting weird
[03.08.2012 20:33:09] Erik: yeah exactly
[03.08.2012 20:33:14] Erik: btw, why did you mason me?
[03.08.2012 20:33:23] Erik: randomly picked someone?
[03.08.2012 20:33:26] Hassy: nah
[03.08.2012 20:33:30] Erik: or did you go for a read?
[03.08.2012 20:33:41] Hassy : I went on a read
[03.08.2012 20:33:52] Hassy: I was going to pick a vet for day 1 anyways
[03.08.2012 20:33:59] Erik: am I town or mafia?^^
[03.08.2012 20:34:24] Hassy: because i like to get as much info as possible on them
[03.08.2012 20:34:27] Hassy: erm....you're toad
[03.08.2012 20:34:27] Hassy: :3
[03.08.2012 20:34:47] Erik: so you still need to figure me out
[03.08.2012 20:34:59] Hassy: let's jsut say I dont think you're mafia yet
[03.08.2012 20:35:10] Hassy: I hate calling people town...
[03.08.2012 20:35:15] Erik: yeah just asking because someone else masoned me saying it's obvious I'm town
[03.08.2012 20:35:35] Erik: I was actually pretty suprised to hear that
[03.08.2012 20:35:46] Erik: because people are really scared about me lately
[03.08.2012 20:36:07] Hassy: you're one of the hardest guys on TL Mafia to read tbh
[03.08.2012 20:36:22] Hassy: thus MOAR INFO on you
[03.08.2012 20:36:27] Erik: yeah that's what I get a lot
[03.08.2012 20:37:01] Erik: good thing I'm not role playing my role
[03.08.2012 20:37:10] Erik: I got a total attention whore :D
[03.08.2012 20:37:51] Erik: so I'll let you read a little if you only took a bried look on the thread so far
[03.08.2012 20:37:59] Hassy: something tells me I should watch the series
[03.08.2012 20:38:10] Erik: I never watched it either
[03.08.2012 20:38:23] Erik: but my guy is literally gonzaw
[03.08.2012 20:38:35] Hassy: rofl
[03.08.2012 20:38:41] Erik: picture Toad trying to play like gonzaw on purpose, that'd be a spamfest
[03.08.2012 20:39:05] Hassy: well, you'd be having conversations with yourself
[03.08.2012 20:39:15] Hassy: while the rest of us vote to kill you because we can't read that much

[03.08.2012 20:39:50] Erik: are you making notes while playing?
[03.08.2012 20:39:55] Hassy: always
[03.08.2012 20:40:07] Erik: even as mafia?
[03.08.2012 20:40:16] Hassy: though my google docs is fucked so I have to use normal Word ._.
[03.08.2012 20:40:29] Hassy: I take notes no matter what because it helps in future games
[03.08.2012 20:40:43] Erik: I'm way to lazy to do that as mafia lol
[03.08.2012 20:41:10] Erik: but that could obviously be a lie trying to post notes later on to show I'm town
[03.08.2012 20:41:13] Erik: damn this is stupid ;D
[03.08.2012 20:41:18] Hassy: lol :D
[03.08.2012 20:41:59] Erik: what's your thoughts on wbg's agression so far?
[03.08.2012 20:42:00] Hassy: ok
[03.08.2012 20:42:10] Hassy: one thing that zeph has pointed out that is also striking me as weird
[03.08.2012 20:42:13] Hassy: where's ghost?
[03.08.2012 20:42:19] Erik: ?
[03.08.2012 20:42:51] Hassy: hmmm
[03.08.2012 20:42:56] Erik: oh you're taking about the list?
[03.08.2012 20:43:02] Hassy: yeah
[03.08.2012 20:43:10] Erik: I was actually curious why you're missing in there
[03.08.2012 20:43:15] Hassy: ghost and sloosh are normally active ady 1
[03.08.2012 20:43:27] Hassy: oh yeah i still haven't posted....
[03.08.2012 20:43:33] Hassy: this is holy roman all over again
[03.08.2012 20:44:26] Erik: Even if you're his mafia buddy I doubt he'd be stupid enough to make a list of everyone who hasn't posted yet excluding his buddy^^
[03.08.2012 20:44:31] Hassy: as for wbg, his aggression feels standard wbg, but doesn't ahve any backup to it
[03.08.2012 20:44:41] Hassy: it's almost like he's being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive
[03.08.2012 20:44:52] Erik: yeah that's what I'm getting too
[03.08.2012 20:45:34] Erik: He's agressive all right. He usually is as town. However, he usually tries to fake that as mafia as well so it's more of a question is it him genuinely being pissed when someone does something retarded or is it a charade. Could be both at this point (first thought was fake) and have to check posts like this in the future!
[03.08.2012 20:46:08] Hassy: he could be genuinley pissed about idiocy
[03.08.2012 20:46:13] Erik: yeah
[03.08.2012 20:46:17] Erik: he does that a lot
[03.08.2012 20:46:30] Hassy: but he normally points it out
[03.08.2012 20:46:58] Hassy: then again....god I don't see how both oft hem can be town
[03.08.2012 20:47:12] Hassy: unless this is some enxt elvel shit from wbg and eran
[03.08.2012 20:47:42] Erik: well remember VE vs me in that cursed game?
[03.08.2012 20:47:47] Erik: but I doubt that's happening
[03.08.2012 20:47:51] Hassy: damn that game ._.
[03.08.2012 20:48:17] Hassy: that game is actually noe of the reasons why I was hoping VE would claim
[03.08.2012 20:48:32] Hassy: normally I'm not that good at reading him, but when he claims I'm 3/3 in hid alignment :D
[03.08.2012 20:50:21] Hassy: side note: I'm guessing from your responses that you don't want to have the masons outed
[03.08.2012 20:50:33] Hassy: well, if you did you would ahve said something by now
[03.08.2012 20:51:04] Erik: I don't think outing masons is helping town at all
[03.08.2012 20:51:28] Erik: I don't see a possible way of "using" that information at all
[03.08.2012 20:51:56] Hassy: the mason trading thing was a stupid suggestion
[03.08.2012 20:52:09] Erik: we don't know if all masons are claimed, we don't know how many mafia masons there are if at all. So any plan like "let's lynch into masons" is bound to be build on misinformation
[03.08.2012 20:52:27] Erik: and if we choose to not use the information we might as well leave out the shitstorm
[03.08.2012 20:52:31] Hassy: well the scum masons could just not claim...
[03.08.2012 20:52:42] Erik: yeah exactly
[03.08.2012 20:52:55] Erik: they could, they could choose not to, we don't know
[03.08.2012 20:53:04] Hassy: then we just have a list of town masons and we're all "welp time to look at these guys"
[03.08.2012 20:53:45] Erik: yeah and with people like Talis around that's bound to be a shitstorm, even if his assumptions might end up being right
[03.08.2012 20:55:35] Hassy: reading talis' post about it
[03.08.2012 20:56:49] Hassy: ok that's nonsensical in my eyes
[03.08.2012 20:57:27] Erik: I'm leaving you some time to read everything^^
[03.08.2012 20:57:54] Hassy: this may take a while because i have to decide if half these posts are serious or not...
[03.08.2012 20:58:20] Erik: that's exactly my problem lol
[03.08.2012 21:05:41] Hassy: ooookkkk
[03.08.2012 21:05:52] Hassy: think i'm sort of confident I haven't missed too much
[03.08.2012 21:06:49] Hassy: anyw hile i was reading, sloosh joins us
[03.08.2012 21:06:49] Hassy: woo
[03.08.2012 21:07:04] Erik: I totally agree with him
[03.08.2012 21:07:09] Erik: except for the part about me obviously
[03.08.2012 21:09:07] Hassy: yeah, I'm with that, except for the order
[03.08.2012 21:09:41] Hassy: zeph feels null to me, because it reminds me of him beforehand
[03.08.2012 21:09:55] Hassy: he generally tries to get discussion over posting thought day 1
[03.08.2012 21:11:58] Hassy: oh, I've decided
[03.08.2012 21:12:07] Hassy: Eran's "test" reeks of Bill Murray
[03.08.2012 21:12:27] Hassy: the sort of "NOPE IT WAS A TRAP AND YOU FELL FOR IT YOU'RE SCUM"
[03.08.2012 21:12:40] Hassy: but in fact it was a pretty stupid trap and doesn't mean much
[03.08.2012 21:13:29] Erik: the thing about eran is that I actually liked his earlier posts
[03.08.2012 21:13:44] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&currentpage=13#249
[03.08.2012 21:13:48] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&currentpage=13#258
[03.08.2012 21:13:52] Erik: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&currentpage=13#259
[03.08.2012 21:13:57] Erik: all posts I like
[03.08.2012 21:14:18] Hassy: oh I agree. I'm not calling him scummy, jsut....stupid I guess

[03.08.2012 21:14:41] Hassy: slightly feel he wasted his mason for the day if it was purely to tst bugs
[03.08.2012 21:15:03] Erik: yeah it's weird
[03.08.2012 21:16:10] Hassy: I'm more suspicious of talis and bugs tbh
[03.08.2012 21:16:31] Erik: talis surely is my #1 read so far
[03.08.2012 21:16:44] Erik: but I'm scared he might just be stupid and actually thinks the way he does
[03.08.2012 21:16:46] Erik: 8(
[03.08.2012 21:19:02] Hassy: Day 1's....
[03.08.2012 21:22:08] Erik: do you have anything on the small fish of this game?
[03.08.2012 21:22:40] Erik: I'm usually having problems figuring them out d1 and so far I've only got something on one guy
[03.08.2012 21:23:38] Hassy: Hopeless is an interesting one
[03.08.2012 21:23:53] Erik: Calling it now: Prplhz + WBG + Zeph + Talis + 2 new guys
[03.08.2012 21:23:58] Hassy: his first post I sort of agree with, but it's non-committal
[03.08.2012 21:24:06] Erik: oh it's only 5
[03.08.2012 21:24:07] Hassy: and he jumped on the Glasse idea very quickly
[03.08.2012 21:24:10] Erik: lol only one new guy
[03.08.2012 21:25:01] Erik: yeah I kind of agree
[03.08.2012 21:25:04] Erik: he makes sense
[03.08.2012 21:25:35] Erik: but than again it's only one post
[03.08.2012 21:25:58] Hassy: OH GOD I'M SO HUNGRY
[03.08.2012 21:26:10] Erik: I like this jingleHell guy
[03.08.2012 21:26:13] Erik: :D
[03.08.2012 21:26:42] Hassy: ok I really need to go open my fast
[03.08.2012 21:26:43] Hassy: brb
[03.08.2012 21:27:45] Hassy: also, zork is being super lurkey
[03.08.2012 21:28:25] Hassy: and I sort of like synystyr
[03.08.2012 22:14:36] Hassy: erm
[03.08.2012 22:14:46] Hassy: toad....is talis trying to role fish?
[03.08.2012 22:15:09] Erik: what post? I'm watching a tv right now^^
[03.08.2012 22:15:17] Hassy: the very last one
[03.08.2012 22:15:21] Hassy: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&currentpage=20#399
[03.08.2012 22:15:25] Erik: I'm reading
[03.08.2012 22:16:42] Erik: now idea
[03.08.2012 22:16:46] Erik: never watched the show
[03.08.2012 22:17:06] Erik: but saying "and if WBG is veteran" is something he should not do oO
[03.08.2012 22:19:46] Erik: you should probably post something though
[03.08.2012 22:20:14] Erik: right now I'm the only one who knows you're actually in the game
[03.08.2012 22:22:29] Hassy: I never know what to post in this situation...
[03.08.2012 22:26:29] Hassy: yeah, talis has shot up my radar
[04.08.2012 16:37:33] Erik: I think voting for wbg might be a good idea in your position, the thread is pretty much dead
[04.08.2012 16:37:48] Hassy: I'm worried toad
[04.08.2012 16:37:51] Erik: and I don't really want to the only one posting in there nonstop
[04.08.2012 16:38:02] Erik: why?
[04.08.2012 16:38:47] Hassy: I'm starting to think he's genuinely pissed off
[04.08.2012 16:39:08] Erik: there's no reason to be that pissed about something in the thread
[04.08.2012 16:39:17] Hassy: exactly
[04.08.2012 16:39:19] Erik: and I have no idea what he's talking about with eran
[04.08.2012 16:39:28] Hassy: there's no logical reason to be annoyed
[04.08.2012 16:39:42] Hassy: he's being totally illogical
[04.08.2012 16:39:51] Hassy: and that's so uncharacteristic of bugs as scum AND town
[04.08.2012 16:40:29] Erik: bugs nows that his town meta is "being angry" or being pissed
[04.08.2012 16:40:38] Hassy: this is true
[04.08.2012 16:40:43] Erik: if he's mafia he has to fake it anyways
[04.08.2012 16:41:10] Hassy: I may be straight up underestimating bugs' strat play in this game
[04.08.2012 16:41:41] Erik: the only thing I'm scared about is that I don't know what eran and bugs are talking about
[04.08.2012 16:41:46] Erik: I'd love to see that log
[04.08.2012 16:42:02] Erik: from the thread there's no reason to be that pissed at all and if that's all he's mafia
[04.08.2012 16:42:18] Hassy: you think one oft hem will release it if tey're about to die?
[04.08.2012 16:42:38] Erik: if eran genuinely pisses him off in skype he could be mad without us understanding why
[04.08.2012 16:42:52] Erik: yeah pretty sure we'll get the information
[04.08.2012 16:42:57] Erik: but I'd rather have it right now
[04.08.2012 16:42:58] Hassy: ok, I have an idea
[04.08.2012 16:43:02] Hassy: no more guessing around
[04.08.2012 16:43:09] Erik: if eran is town and bugs is mafia eran will post it
[04.08.2012 16:43:12] Hassy: straight question, lets just ask him what exactly he's pissed off about
[04.08.2012 16:43:21] Erik: if bugs is town and eran is mafia bugs will post it
[04.08.2012 16:43:41] Erik: yeah do that
[04.08.2012 16:43:47] Erik: and just ask for the log
[04.08.2012 16:43:53] Erik: everyone knows they're masoned anyways
[04.08.2012 16:45:00] Erik: actually
[04.08.2012 16:45:05] Erik: zephirdd looks really bad
[04.08.2012 16:45:28] Erik: he someone manages to post stuff that reads awefully bad every single time
[04.08.2012 16:45:47] Erik: Zeph: "Secondly, every single argument is the same argument over and over: town arguing with town that the game should be played certain way."
[04.08.2012 16:45:58] Erik: how in the world does he know it's town argueing vs town?
[04.08.2012 16:46:22] Hassy: does he genuinely think that they're both town having a pissing contest?
[04.08.2012 16:46:30] Erik: seems so
[04.08.2012 16:46:34] Hassy: LIII part 2
[04.08.2012 16:46:47] Erik: and he apparently thinks the same about me attacking wbg
[04.08.2012 16:46:52] Erik: and everyone else attacking each other
[04.08.2012 16:47:25] Hassy: Occam's razor surely
[04.08.2012 16:48:12] Hassy: It's highly unlikely that both eran and bugs are town
[04.08.2012 16:48:25] Hassy: even with their abrasive personalities
[04.08.2012 16:48:53] Erik: I'd include prplhz in that group thanks to one of bugs most recent posts
[04.08.2012 16:49:32] Erik: bugs said he thinks prplhz is 95% mafia. If bugs really is a townie and is pissed because of the skype convos we at least know that's something to work with
[04.08.2012 16:50:04] Erik: I'd say at this point either bugs or prplhz has to be mafia. I don't know how eran is in this
[04.08.2012 16:50:51] Hassy: well we need the logs to get a better read on eran
[04.08.2012 16:51:02] Hassy: if bugs is town there's something that's clearly pissed him off
[04.08.2012 16:51:09] Hassy: if he's mafia there's implication in there
[04.08.2012 16:51:14] Erik: yeah i really want to see those logs to see wether or not bugs has a reason to be that pissed
[04.08.2012 16:51:16] Hassy: either way it's useful
[04.08.2012 16:51:36] Erik: just go ahead and ask him
[04.08.2012 16:51:44] Erik: he's probably ignoring me
[04.08.2012 16:52:01] Erik: and if we can see the logs BEFORE the lynch happens that might be really good
[04.08.2012 16:52:13] Erik: also I want you to post more :3
[04.08.2012 16:53:20] Hassy: no point in complicating it
[04.08.2012 16:53:32] Hassy: we're lsoing the meanings of shit in the semantics thrown around
[04.08.2012 17:15:50] Hassy: here's something awkward
[04.08.2012 17:15:57] Hassy: what if they both refuse?
[04.08.2012 17:16:15] Erik: why should they
[04.08.2012 17:16:37] Hassy: illogically
[04.08.2012 17:16:40] Erik: worst case scenario is they're posting it 1 sec before the lynch
[04.08.2012 17:16:52] Erik: why should town wbg not post it before the lynch
[04.08.2012 17:17:00] Erik: or why should town eran not post it before the lynch
[04.08.2012 17:17:13] Hassy: I'm trying to wrap around wy either of them should be doing what they're doing
[04.08.2012 17:18:01] Hassy: I'd expect eran to do it at least, if he's town
[04.08.2012 17:18:17] Hassy: bugs is being spiteful, and might not if that's still the case
[04.08.2012 17:22:33] Hassy: random tangent btw: olympic QF between senegal and mexico
[04.08.2012 17:22:45] Hassy: on of the seneglese actually drop kicked someone
[04.08.2012 17:23:08] Erik: how do people watch olympics

[04.08.2012 17:23:29] Erik: I get that you're from the UK and so them being in london is something but I'd never consider watching them ;D
[04.08.2012 17:23:58] Hassy: its fun
[04.08.2012 17:24:08] Hassy: one of the few times we get some national pride :D
[04.08.2012 19:37:44] Hassy: still no log from either of them
[04.08.2012 20:51:15] Erik: okay the log is erandorr and wbg mud fighting
[04.08.2012 20:54:12] Hassy: looking...for something credible...
[04.08.2012 21:01:17] Hassy: no...I don't really see it
[04.08.2012 21:01:38] Erik: ?
[04.08.2012 21:01:49] Hassy: the chat, is there really a decent discussion in there?
[04.08.2012 21:01:55] Erik: no
[04.08.2012 21:01:57] Erik: ^^
[04.08.2012 21:02:06] Hassy: even the discussion about masons deteriorated fast
[04.08.2012 21:02:11] Erik: but I'd be pissed if that happened to me
[04.08.2012 21:02:25] Erik: i just don't know why it happened lol
[04.08.2012 21:02:33] Hassy: I don't see a reason
[04.08.2012 21:02:49] Hassy: literally started with him being pissed off
[04.08.2012 21:02:54] Hassy: unless he's super stressed about finals
[04.08.2012 22:18:23] Hassy: well looks like he's super stressed out about exams!
[04.08.2012 22:42:03] Hassy: hmmm
[04.08.2012 22:42:14] Hassy: I still think that talis is a bit worse than prpl tbh
[04.08.2012 22:42:34] Hassy: i've counted three times that he's tried to rolefish/out a potential blue
[04.08.2012 22:43:02] Erik: yeah but talis does that no matter of alignment
[04.08.2012 22:43:20] Erik: he's really the kind of guy who plays mafia to understand the set-up and not to figure people out
[04.08.2012 22:43:57] Hassy: that's a very dangerous way of playing
[04.08.2012 22:44:16] Erik: it's a stupid way of playing
[04.08.2012 22:44:23] Erik: but I can't help it
[04.08.2012 22:45:21] Hassy: I guess
[04.08.2012 22:45:25] Hassy: how long till the deadline btw?
[04.08.2012 22:45:39] Erik: really long I think 5 am my time?
[04.08.2012 22:45:48] Hassy: og that's ok
[04.08.2012 22:45:54] Hassy: I have to go to the mosque for a few hours
[04.08.2012 22:45:57] Erik: 9 pm est
[04.08.2012 22:46:01] Erik: let's check what that is
[04.08.2012 22:46:08] Hassy: still have time to get back and make a final decision
[04.08.2012 22:46:14] Erik: 4 am my time
[04.08.2012 22:46:21] Erik: kk
[04.08.2012 22:46:28] Hassy: so...3am mine
[04.08.2012 22:46:30] Hassy: plenty of time
[04.08.2012 22:46:31] Hassy: cya in a bit

On August 06 2012 00:03 strongandbig wrote:
Alright I just spent like two hours rereading the whole thread. Here's what I've got:

Scummiest of all: wherebugsgo
+ Show Spoiler +
>80% chance of flipping scum imo:

Glasse
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On August 03 2012 22:27 Glasse wrote:
If the mason role is as important as some people are saying, calling them out only exposes them to mafia no?

nice first post after the game started.

On August 05 2012 10:05 Glasse wrote:
So it's 9pm, looks like prplhz is the one. Let's see how this turns out.

On August 05 2012 10:11 Glasse wrote:
-.-

It was to be expected.

lol yeah okay.
BroodKingExe
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On August 04 2012 08:51 BroodKingEXE wrote:
wtf?

This was his first post after the game started; it came 3 minutes after the modkill, and he didn't post again for 24 hours. Scummy. As. Fuck.

On August 05 2012 09:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I have a problem with the top two lynch candidates.

WBG: calling out the mason was a good move in my book. But it doesn't make shit sense from the scum POV, scum can kill him regardless of whether or not the town knows the mason. His feud with Eran seems to be long standing and I could believe bugs could get frustrated and rage.

prplphz: Although his play has been poor I agree with his initial case against Glasse. Glasse's play was poor and lynch worthy at the time. Furthermore this lynch seems too much like a wagon on an inactive.

I feel much more comfortable lynching Eran. Seems like he could be mason scum manipulating bugs, looking to create trouble. He said himself he wanted to create a scumhunting environment, yet he helps initiate a shitstorm in a mason PM.

This post is also super scummy. He throws doubt on the two main lynch candidates, but his alternative is... Erandorr? If he wanted an actual switch it was going to take way more than that. This reads more to me like scum not wanting to be on a town lynch of prplhz or wbg if he's town, and not wanting to lynch his buddy if wbg is scum.
BioSC
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On August 03 2012 12:15 BioSC wrote:
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Hihi! First big game on TL, rolling town. Lets get started.

Masons - Perm masons, nah, don't need to claim until needed.

Temp masons, I would be very fine with claiming that.

Didn't read the thread. scum qt probably said "hey comment on the mason thing it's free not-being-a-lurker."

On August 05 2012 06:41 BioSC wrote:
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I'm on board with a prplhz lynch. Like others have already posted, he's asking too many questions and not providing any reads of his own. I don't really count his vote on SlOosh a read.

On August 04 2012 02:10 prplhz wrote:
@Toadesstern My posting should be self explanatory. There was no secret plan, Glasse was being scummy. That said, I'm willing to let him go for now after his latest post explaining his wherebugsgo read. If you still have problems then flesh them out.

##Unvote Glasse

slOosh absolutely needs to post. He posted elsewhere on this forum while this game was going on (like 12 hours ago) so he has absolutely no excuse. In Normal Mini Mafia II his first post was just a single vote with no explanation, how long could it take for him to write a post like that just to let us know that he's alive?

##Vote slOosh

Makes out his vote as a pressure vote to get SlOosh posting, then posts an excuse not to post.

On August 05 2012 00:46 prplhz wrote:
I'm like really hungover and I can't read anything right now. wherebugsgo looks townie enough though and I don't want to lynch him. grush57 lynch looks like an okay lynch.

I'm okay with making this happen.

##Vote prplhz

This is also super scummy. Just kinda rolling along with the bandwagon, and imitating others reasoning without directly saying it (scummy because scum like to make it seem like they're thinking independantly even when they're not.)

Candidates for the other scum:

JingleHell
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On August 03 2012 11:39 JingleHell wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 03 2012 11:37 Erandorr wrote:
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On August 03 2012 11:32 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm town.

for that matter I'm Roger fucking Sterling, so suck my dick.

lets start this game right

## VOTE: WBG

We don't even have much discussion yet, but you still ignored it. Why?

feels town at first but actually it's not.
On August 03 2012 23:32 JingleHell wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 03 2012 21:13 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm more interested in VE's intentions actually.
Did he mason someone randomly from the get go? Why wasn't he afraid to randomly hit mafia at all? WBG can be pretty manipulative
If it was not from the get-go VE probably had a town-read on WBG. If that's the case VE should have no problem at all telling people why he thinks WBG to be town. Someone masoning without even being able to explain why is the most suspicious thing in the world. So VE SHOULD have told WBG why he thinks that he's town if that's really the case.
Did VE explain why he masoned you WBG?

I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up.

This seemed off because he seemed to have stopped for the night by the time I went to sleep. So, I looked. Sure enough, you start posting a case 7 hours and change after VE's last post, you vote somewhere in the 8ish hour range, and say you want fast answers 9 hours after his last post.

Asking for an answer quick is one thing if he's posting, but this seems a bit pushy. Trying to force the issue with someone who hasn't posted in hours and use that to make them look scummy?

I can't speak for his motives, because they sure as hell don't make much sense to me yet, but yours just seem scummy.
This is a pretty terrible reason to find someone scummy, and I'm a connoiseur of terrible reasons to find someone scummy.

On August 03 2012 23:36 JingleHell wrote:
Ah. My apologies. Maybe I should finish my caffeine, I missed that.

Just gonna leave this here for you guys.
Toad
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On August 03 2012 20:58 Toadesstern wrote:
##Vote VE

where the fuck did this come from

On August 04 2012 00:05 Toadesstern wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 03 2012 23:56 Lazermonkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 22:27 Toadesstern wrote:
On August 03 2012 22:13 Lazermonkey wrote:
On August 03 2012 21:44 Toadesstern wrote:
On August 03 2012 21:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
@Toad: I don't agree with masoned players not claiming. You say that the most likely player to be masoned is someone who looks town, I agree with that. But your argument is that scum will have an easier time to make a good NK kill because of that. People will be posting town reads none the les so I don't see this as much of an issue. One town read will most probebly not be the main reason for a Nk and if there are alot of people suspecting that person to be town, he is very likely to be killed anyway.Also, if the masoned players claim right before night we can prevent a night kill on these players at least for that night.

Basically, this is the only negative thing I can think of with people claiming masoned. But the advantages for this is way bigger.

Just to remind you, this was the question:

On August 03 2012 20:35 Toadesstern wrote:
On August 03 2012 20:09 Lazermonkey wrote:
On August 03 2012 17:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I really don't see a reason for someone NOT to claim if they get masoned. One might argue that it let's scum get one of the few pieces of info that they've not already recived, however I don't really see how scum would be able to capitalize on the fact that there are town masons in the game.

Okay, when thinking of it, there might be some situations that people claiming masoned might be usefull for scum. But Town will most likely gain more from claiming than scum. Masoned players SHOULD claim.

what kind of information do you get as a townie if I were to tell you that I got masoned for example?
What kind of reaction would that trigger?

I can't think of one to be honest.

We will know the exact numbers of masons unless scum mason decides not to use his power at all in which case he can be treated as vanilla scum. Yes, this means scum will also know how many masons there are, however scum already have two advantages here.
1. They already know whether or not there is a scum mason.
2. If one scum ever gets masoned all scum will know who is that that person is scum mason whilest if town gets masoned and we decide that they shouldn't claim, only that person will know who is the mason.

There is more to gain for town than for scum by claiming.

If you treat it as information we want to use that IS a pretty big if, isn't it?

Let's say we're in a situation with 3 town masons and 1 mafia mason for the sake of getting some numbers.
Let's say the 3 town masons get claimed, the 1 mafia mason won't be claimed.
What's the next step? "Woah, we've got EXACTLY 3 masons, one of them is bound to be mafia! Let's lynch into them!" ?
If that's not the next step, what good is the information?
You said yourself, we're going to know the exact number of masons, while saying that it's very much possible that the number will be wrong. That's kind of contradicting imo.

On August 03 2012 22:16 Zephirdd wrote:
I'm not part of the mason circles I guess /sad

Toad, why insta-voting VE? I know you had some suspicion of him, but did you consider that VE sounded overly cautious because he is a mason? That's what I get at least.

Erandorr, why masoning someone who just outted his mason?

kind of.
That's not what I said. In the situation you describe we can't assume that any of the masons are scum. There are no guarantees for scum mason. However, In the situation you describe, we have effectivly turned a quite strong scum mason into a weak vanilla scum. We are in an advantage we wouldn't have been in if we wouldn't claim masoned.

Well Talis said he'd like to do something like that earlier, so surely it's going to be a shitstorm of people arguing wether we should lynch into them or not.
At the same time we're giving mafia better odds at killing people they want to kill instead of just killing people.

I don't think that's to good.

And again, we don't know what kind of scenario could be true. You basicly just said "well in that situation we don't lynch because we don't know if we have a mafiamason".
So the mafias don't have to hide their masons according to you, because we're not lynching into them, because even it it were 3, 4 or 5 or 6 masons, we can't know for sure that one of them has to be a mafia mason, right?
In that scenario we got nothing at all while giving mafia better odds.

Lazermonkey is a noob but toad why in the world are you still having this argument at this point in the thread?

On August 04 2012 19:22 Toadesstern wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:
man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too?

Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum.

I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid.

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On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.

Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable.

Show nested quote +
On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.

If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.

Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny.

Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace.

Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)

Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible.

Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim.
(for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons")

Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc.

This isn't town wbg.

##vote: wherebugsgo

Exactly this.
Still re-reading but I like this post and I think lynching WBG should be the way to go today.

Out of my 5-man list I consider VE to be the guy who is the least likely to flip mafia.
I'm a little scared Talis might actually think the way he posts so I'd rather go for either WBG or Prplhz. After WoF I'd say WBG is the way to go because I saw Prplhz fail pretty hard in there, so I want to give him some time for now.
Zephird is just like VE one of the weaker reads.

I can't stop but getting the fealing that WBG is faking all this being pissed and his reasoning for outing masons is still non-existent. It's the same thing like claiming mafia in irc-mafia because there's not much ups and downs for that besides being a bold move.

I could have maybe come up with a reasoning for why he outed VE given that it's VE. Something like "Well the dude is VE, he's going to claim within the next 12hours ANYWAYS so might as well get over it now". With Erandorr being outed as well that's not longer a possibility and except for the whole thing being a bold move I don't see a reason to do it at all.

This is mafia Bugs doing bold moves on purposes for the sake of doing something bold, because people think mafia don't do stuff like that. There's no other purpose of this whole shenanigan he did.

So this makes sense, I'll be looking to see what changed your mind.

On August 05 2012 01:28 Toadesstern wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 05 2012 01:03 Hassybaby wrote:
The way I see it about bugs right now, two things come to mind:

1. Bugs is getting annoyed for a genuine reason in the mason.
2. Bugs is getting annoyed for the sake of getting annoyed.

I'm leaning towards the latter right now, but I'd like to see the logs to see if there's a real reason for him being annoyed, but it still doesn't explain his mason play.

That's pretty much it.

Bugs IS insulting and he IS pissed as town when someone gets on his nerves.
As mafia he's not but he's trying to look as though he is, so he has to fake it.

If bugs is mad for no reason he is faking it and therefore mafia.
If there is a genuine reason to be frustrated / mad he could be both town or mafia.

From what I saw in the thread his frustration looks awfully faked because there's no reason to freak out like that.
Which means he either fakes it or something is happening in PM-land.

I'd rather know about that kind of thing BEFORE we lynch so eran or WBG pretty please post the logs?

This is a change in logic. In toad's previous post he thought wbg was scum because he was doing something bold that made no sense. This time, it comes down to the question of whether or not he's genuinely angry. Not only is this bad logic, it's also inconsistent - whether or not he's genuinely pissed off, the context of "him doing something bold" etcetera doesn't change at all.

On August 05 2012 04:57 Toadesstern wrote:
what about this?

We lynch Mr 95% mafia: Prplhz

I said he's mafia. Erandorr seems to agree, WBG posted most recently that he thinks prplhz is mafia as well, sloOsh thinks prplhz is mafia and prplhz thinks WBG is town, which is REALLY odd unless he wants to tell people later "told ya", which is one of the reasons I am questioning the wbg lynch.

If Prplhz flips mafia we're all happy.
If Prplhz flips town we lynch/shoot WBG + talis

Do you still think this? Should we be lynching/shooting wbg and talismania? Also I'm not sure how this ever made sense in the first place - why does the fact that wbg or talismania were wrong about prplhz's alignment make them scum? This "if you're wrong about this lynch then you're scum' thing is classic scum logic.
Talismania
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 04 2012 04:37 talismania wrote:
yep zeph is scummy for exactly why sloosh says. erandorr I thought was for a bit but I don't understand masoning wbg from a scum pov. jinglehell is town, lazer is town, strongandbig is town. toad I thought was scum at first because of the timing of his patented color text post but he's just been being generally rather toady, which is to say he makes really strange (from my perspective) conclusions about what's good in the setup and what's not with strange (again from my perspective) reasoning behind it. Glasse I thought was hilariously obviously scummy. Like so blatant I honestly don't know what to think. Guess I should go dig up another game of his.

this post doesn't seem like talismania normally plays as town to me, but I can't put a finger on why.

On August 04 2012 05:13 talismania wrote:
ps can people post their character names? I just want to satisfy my curiosity to find out who is in the game - I know that they don't mean anything since I'm VT with Henry Francis. Although I will LOL if scum has Ted Chaugh and Putnam, Powell, Lowe etc. And if WBG is veteran since Roger comes back from a heart attack in the first season.

This is 100% not alignment indicative from talismania. It's his thing - he's like Ace and Sandroba's baby love child when it comes to trying to break setups, as either alignment.

That said, it's not specific posts that make me think talismania is scummy, it's more his general attitude towards the lynch and the game - it just feels off. If you want to call this a gut read then fine, whatever.
HassyBaby
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On August 04 2012 05:28 Hassybaby wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hey guys!

Ok, reading through, I'm trying to figure out your motives talis. I totally disagree with your assessment of mason (I think they are a lot better than you are portraying that they are in this game) and would have left it at us just having different opinions

But then you post this:
On August 04 2012 05:13 talismania wrote:
ps can people post their character names? I just want to satisfy my curiosity to find out who is in the game - I know that they don't mean anything since I'm VT with Henry Francis. Although I will LOL if scum has Ted Chaugh and Putnam, Powell, Lowe etc. And if WBG is veteran since Roger comes back from a heart attack in the first season.

Now on surface that may not be that bad, but the fact that you're outlining potential links between names and roles, why in the hell are you bringing it to light? That coupled with you wanting the masons to claim makes me feel you're rolefishing

Yeah so given that it's talismania you're talking about, I find this post kinda scummy since I assume you two have played together before. Talismania's been all over the forum for the past few months. Plus the fact that there's no real commitment to a position.

On August 04 2012 23:53 Hassybaby wrote:
Bugs, from the way it looks to me, you're annoyed about something that's happened in the logs between you and Eran. Can you post them here? I think it's valuable information

Thank you hassybaby for that valuable contribution.
also count dropula or hier but mostly only because their filters are tiny as shit and contain like one scummy post, they don't have the same "scummy" ring to them; and they're a noob and a smurf so their inactivity isn't inherently scummy like I think, for example, hassybaby's or broodking's are.
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 05 2012 03:16 CountDropula wrote:
I really think the most important issue for us right now is getting people active. Were giving mafia too much space to hide.
Nevertheless, I'm voting wbg right now though that can change.
For sure watching zeph though, but I need a better case.

lol thanks bro

On August 05 2012 06:55 Hier wrote:
I do not understand this prplhz accusation. There are literally two things he has done:

1) Accuse Glasse of having passive posts.
2) Change his vote to slOosh for not being active.

Then he gets drunk and goes MIA.

Instead I'm starting to look at Toad for borderline forcing people to vote for prplhz, as opposed to encouraging votes for whoever people consider scummy.

WBG I'm almost convinced is town, in light of the conversation log between him and Erandorr.

yeah this is pretty scummy. Those are really bad reasons to think someone is town, and if he's town this is a terrible attempt to try and get people off of the prplhz vote.

I also generated quite a few weak town reads and three or four really really strong town reads. However, I won't be sharing those because there's no good reason to and I don't want to give scum advice on which lurkers to shoot.

I'm also just going to post some stuff down below here because it deserves to be pointed out.

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 03 2012 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

~~town but it's ve so who knows~~

Actually wait where the fuck did random lynch proposal come from -> null or scum

Yeah I know people said ve was playing cautiously because of his role but fuck that he's ve, he doesn't do that shit.

On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, everyone STOP.

This lynch on WBG is not happening.

Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit.

I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY.

##Vote: talismania

I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really?

I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo.

This is pretty terrible play, VE. You just assert that your PMs with wbg make you think he's town. That shouldn't be enough to move a lynch off of someone without proof, you need to back that up.

On the other hand, I think talismania looks scummy, so ve gets benefit of the doubt for now.

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