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| aBstractx United States. July 17 2012 13:24. Posts 249 | Profile # |
Hey guys! This is my first time making a guide so bare with me 
aBstract.673 @ NA
http://sc2ranks.com/us/2838354/aBstract
Idea of the build:
+ Show Spoiler +The main focus of this build is macro, but the best thing about the build is that I can branch off in any direction of my choosing. Ideally you want to be even or ahead in worker count with the zerg for most of the game. The build allows you to out-probe or at least stay on par with the zerg all while maintaining the threat of "real pressure". I say that because you aren't throwing weak waves at the zerg. At any point in time you can make a serious push that if the zerg doesn't prepare for, most likely won't be able to hold it.
There are 2 areas in the game where your creativity will overrun this build. that's the early game & the mid game. with such an emphasis on probes essentially any tech path is viable. any attack timing is viable. hell, no attack timing is viable if you just want to add a 7:30 third and add 5 more gates and defend from there.
Some additional information:
+ Show Spoiler +The reason I've never taken the time to write up a guide is because I was having struggles on the ladder when it came down to late game because I was not building a forge until too late. Since then I've dropped my fourth gateway and replaced it with a forge.
I still experiment a lot with this build even though I've used it for hundreds of games. I feel as though the possibilities are endless. Sometimes I take a 7:30 third, other times I can cut probes around 38~ and go for a fast 6-7 gate all-in. The build is so rough in a sense that it's almost impossible for me to make a complete write up of it. Because I have so many options i rarely ever play the same way except for the opener that I am giving to you guys so you test for yourselves! :D
- 9 Pylon
- 13 Gate (Scout on 4 player map)
- 15 Assimilator
- 16 Pylon
- 18 Cybernetics Core
- 20 Zealot
- 22 Rally probe to build pylon on the low ground
- 24 Zealot
- 28 Sentry
- 29~30 Rally probe to build nexus
- 33 Pylon on low ground (the end of your soon-to-be wall)
- 34~36 2 Additional Gateways & Forge. Complete your wall however you wish here. 1 Gate + 1 Forge etc.
**Most important part of the build:
+ Show Spoiler +The most important part of this guide is making sure you safely get your wall up before the zerg attempts to overrun you with speed lings. I guarantee you if they mass lings and do not get in you will win the game. On the other hand if they do get in.. well, you know how that goes.
- 38 Second Assimilator
- 42 Robotics Facility this varies too. sometimes i can go 12 minutes without a robotics facility if i'm doing a heavy gateway attack.
Chronoboost:
+ Show Spoiler +I didn't list any chronoboost usage for a reason. It's because I spend EVERY chronoboost on probes. Around the 7 or 8 minute mark is where I start to lay off chronoboosting probes a little & start focusing my chronoboost more on my tech of choice.
Additional Gateways:
+ Show Spoiler +If you are committed to early pressure you want more gateways to be able to reinforce your initial attack. I'd say around 7:30~ you can drop 3 more additional gateways. Here you can get creative. you can drop 4 gateways, maybe you want to drop just 2 and go to 5 gate robo and take a fast expansion behind fake pressure just to make the zerg drone. You see what i'm doing here. You can literally do anything you want.
Initial pressure:
+ Show Spoiler +With +1 on the way you want to hit a +1 timing attack, consisting of a few zealots, 3-4 sentries & stalkers. When pressuring be sure to make a forward pylon this way your attack doesn't just flop & actually has some meat to it. No matter what happens next is a win for you! keep in mind that you are still continuing worker production throughout this attack.
The types of attacks you can do are limitless.
He's not ready for the attack:
+ Show Spoiler +You go to his third and he isn't ready for your attack. If it's obvious that he's just sacking his third go ahead and kill it while taking your own third you'll be able to afford it easily.
He's "kind-of" ready for the attack:
+ Show Spoiler +this is that part of the attack that is hard to gauge, because you don't want to over commit at any time during this attack. if you get there and he doesn't have units yet but roaches are just popping you can stay there and fight with your +1 soon-to-be 1-1 army. A zerg defends this timing attack 2 ways really. they will either try to overwhelm you with speedlings in which case you will have no problem with because you have +1 zealots or they will pop out about 12-18 roaches i'd say and they'll most likely wash that down with zerglings. if you can clean up the lings by kiting them and keeping your zealots in front for meat shields with your upgrade advantage you can easily target fire roaches down and out micro the roaches. remember don't over commit if you smell blood go for the third, if you feel like he can hold it just fall back and take your third.
He is heavily prepared based off of seeing your opener & is worried of pressure:
+ Show Spoiler +If you get there and he has roaches out already and is well prepared for the attack then you should just get the hell out of there and go home. it's really no big deal because like i said up there, you win here, even though nothing happened. he's not droning anymore! yippee! while we're still probing & taking our third.
Weaknesses:
+ Show Spoiler +Early ling speed pressure. Most of you are probably worried about ling speed before you even got to this part of the guide. It's very easy to die to a ling push. It's the reason I build 2 zealots and a sentry.
Replays:
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/14119/aBstract_vs_xGsDarK
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/14120/aBstract_vs_Schnieder
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/14121/aBstract_vs_BaNiroxs
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/14122/aBstract_vs_BORAT
Lost:
http://topreplays.com/Replays/Details/14123/aBstract_vs_QzLZapo
+ Show Spoiler +Bad execution here. If you watch the game you'll see that I have such a big advantage but lose to holes in my own game that I need to work on.
Those are the only replays I have currently. Take a look, don't take a look. Let me know what you think of the build. Criticize it so we can improve it. Any feedback is appreciated, even on the guide itself. Not good, decent etc. Thanks for your time guys! =DLast edit: 2012-07-17 15:58:43 |
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 cmcnutt34 United States. July 17 2012 13:47. Posts 43 | Profile # |
| What would you say makes the 1 gate FE better than Nony's 2 gate FE. With the 2 gate I just feel that the zerg is obligated to drone less and be a tad frightened to take a third too quickly. Many games will be won with pure confusion or just taking 3 hatches as if you were FFE'ing at Plat or diamond level. But at a Masters level where people react better, what does make this build superior? |
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| aBstractx United States. July 17 2012 13:57. Posts 249 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 13:47 cmcnutt34 wrote:
What would you say makes the 1 gate FE better than Nony's 2 gate FE. With the 2 gate I just feel that the zerg is obligated to drone less and be a tad frightened to take a third too quickly. Many games will be won with pure confusion or just taking 3 hatches as if you were FFE'ing at Plat or diamond level. But at a Masters level where people react better, what does make this build superior?
Not familiar with Nonys 2 gate FE BUT from the sound of it you're saying because of the 2 gates zergs are generally scared to take a fast third? The difference in the build is probably the focus on economy.
Each game for me varies. Let me give you a situation that happens sometimes.
Zerg takes a 5 minute third against you. you have +1 on the way & 3 gateways. The entire time you've been chronoboosting probes so your economy is BOOMING. if you pressure early(i'd say around 7 min mark), with zealot and stalkers you should be able to take out the third base all while grabbing one of your own. If the zerg is assuming a big push based on your build maybe they will cut drones hard and go roaches but even in this situation, you still win. you don't kill the third but as long as you don't over commit you can just retreat with a worker lead & place down a third.
brb gonna go familiarize myself with nonys build. =/
edit: Nony likes to pressure with a ton of sentries and zealots. that's cute but sentries are so brittle and weak honestly that I prefer to not make any more than three until after my initial push. the reason being is because with 3 full energy sentries I can place optimal force fields vs lings & i'll have guardian shield. If the zerg is defending with just lings you have +1 zealots, you just warp in heavy on the zealots and you roll his third assuming you hit early enough. If he's defending with roaches the zerg usually will get out roughly 10-20 roaches and then start following that with lings. your upgraded stalker can focus fire roaches down easily. kite until lings are dead and kill roaches. If zerg prepares well for this make sure not to over commit and fall back and safely expand.
keep in mind, that with a heavy sentry push if you lose that army you are f*cked over completely. how do you recover from that? nony then has to cower in his base all game defending at which zerg has that time to power drone. but if you don't build sentries until after your push when you are trying to hold the zergs aggression then they are much more useful and at the same time not nearly as game-ending if lost.
edit#2 like i originally thought. he doesn't power probes like i do. his nexus is dropped around 37 food where mine is dropped on 30 food. i'd say i would have about 80 probes in a 14 minute game. the key is dropping your gateways #4-7/8 in time for defending that aggression that will come from the zerg. but this like i mentioned in the guide, is hard for me to put a particular time stamp on because you may or may not kill his third. so many variables are present in the mid game for this build that its important you have a good feel for the game in order to play accordingly to what zerg is doing.Last edit: 2012-07-17 14:07:35 |
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| trbot Canada. July 17 2012 14:18. Posts 142 | Profile # |
You don't seem to get a wall up until ~6:30, and you're on 1-gate even longer than that... I'm a bit concerned about heavy aggression, e.g., rr, 7rr, 2base roaches, speedling allin, or even a 6-10pool that commits to mass slow-lings. Do you have any thoughts re: these? Unfortunately these things happen a lot at diamond level. 
On July 17 2012 13:57 aBstractx wrote:
the key is dropping your gateways #4-7/8 in time for defending that aggression that will come from the zerg. but this like i mentioned in the guide, is hard for me to put a particular time stamp on because you may or may not kill his third. so many variables are present in the mid game for this build that its important you have a good feel for the game in order to play accordingly to what zerg is doing.
This seems like a reasonable thing to include in the guide--a super rough idea of the times where you can expect that aggression in a couple of situations (especially for us lower level players). |
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| aZealot New Zealand. July 17 2012 14:33. Posts 1406 | Profile # |
Hi Abstract, nice to see another gate expand in PvZ.
I have a couple of questions:
- Why no Hallucination?
- The wall-off seems late to really hold off committed speedlings or even mass lings. I started putting down the 3rd pylon on the low ground as well, but follow up with a gate and forge before building my Nexus. On maps with chokes into the natural this helps hold off lings while your Zealot/Sentry plug the gap.
- Isn't WG really late? You wouldn't have it until ~7 which means you have little defense against committed aggression until that time. That's a long time with only 2 Zealot and 1 Sentry for defense. It seems like you would not have cannons/sentries up in time either for a committed roach push after ~7.30. In attempting to chrono probes it seems like you are trying to counteract the eco weakness typical of the gate expand build but not playing to its strength which is the possibility of early aggression.
That said, I shall watch the replays and post/edit as necessary. Just skimmed through your build and these questions are what first came to mind. Thanks for the build! |
| | "Consider fully, act decisively" - Jigoro Kano |
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| aBstractx United States. July 17 2012 14:34. Posts 249 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 14:18 trbot wrote:You don't seem to get a wall up until ~6:30, and you're on 1-gate even longer than that... I'm a bit concerned about heavy aggression, e.g., rr, 7rr, 2base roaches, speedling allin, or even a 6-10pool that commits to mass slow-lings. Do you have any thoughts re: these? Unfortunately these things happen a lot at diamond level.
Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 13:57 aBstractx wrote:
the key is dropping your gateways #4-7/8 in time for defending that aggression that will come from the zerg. but this like i mentioned in the guide, is hard for me to put a particular time stamp on because you may or may not kill his third. so many variables are present in the mid game for this build that its important you have a good feel for the game in order to play accordingly to what zerg is doing.
This seems like a reasonable thing to include in the guide--a super rough idea of the times where you can expect that aggression in a couple of situations (especially for us lower level players).
man i can't remember the last time ive seen a 7rr lol.
also my wall is finished around ~5:45. Like I say though you can feel when a speedling or mass ling attack is coming. if you see more than 6 it's probably coming lol.
Speedlings:
+ Show Spoiler +like I said speedling all in is dangerous & the timing between the wall and attack are pretty slim. but you can feel when a speedling all in is coming. the zerg will take his initial 6 lings into your main to keep your units away from your wall. that's another reason why you build 2 zealots. 1 is so you can stop 6 lings the other is so you can use your zealot to wall while your other zealot deals with in main harass. you might need probes for that but try to minimze damage with mineral walking probes. you should cut probes a little, maybe spend 1-2 chronoboost on warp gate and make sure you finish the wall. if he tries to break your all make sure you reinforce the wall with more buildings and keep it air tight.
I've lost a few games due to micro by speedling all ins but i've won probably 5x as much. i uploaded a replay of a speedling rush wherehe gets in before my wall finishes but i use probes to defend & seal my wall.
6 pool:
+ Show Spoiler +is easily held. if you put your first 2 pylons powering your initial gateway you have nothing to lose. keep your first zealot close to your probes so you dont get surrounded and once the second zealot pops up youll be fine. when a sentry or stalker pops youll be able to clean up the lings from your base & force them out.
roaches:
+ Show Spoiler +I wouldn't worry about any roach rushes imo. you have the forge, if necessary throw some cannons down. the 3 early sentries i talk about should be able to hold a roach rush if you just keep warping in stalkers.
On July 17 2012 14:33 aZealot wrote:
Hi Abstract, nice to see another gate expand in PvZ.
I have a couple of questions:
- Why no Hallucination?
- The wall-off seems late to really hold off committed speedlings or even mass lings. I started putting down the 3rd pylon on the low ground as well, but follow up with a gate and forge before building my Nexus. On maps with chokes into the natural this helps hold off lings while your Zealot/Sentry plug the gap.
- Isn't WG really late? You wouldn't have it until ~7 which means you have little defense against committed aggression until that time. That's a long time with only 2 Zealot and 1 Sentry for defense. It seems like you would not have cannons/sentries up in time either for a committed roach push after ~7.30. In attempting to chrono probes it seems like you are trying to counteract the eco weakness typical of the gate expand build but not playing to its strength which is the possibility of early aggression.
That said, I shall watch the replays and post/edit as necessary. Just skimmed through your build and these questions are what first came to mind. Thanks for the build!
I did experiment with hallucination just a few games and I probably should use it more because it is a good way to scout but I can usually get a good read on what the zerg is trying to do with my initial pressure. If I don't see any roaches he's either trying to go muta/ling or ling/infestor. Eventually i'll get my observer in there to check out how far along he has tech'd and proceed from there.
without 1 single chronoboost your warp gate tech should finish @6:30 if the speedlings haven't killed you yet i think you are fine from anything else the zerg would be dumb enough to attack you with. baneling all in is an automatic free win. the only time I've ever lost to a baneling all in was when i moved out into it and died lol 
At the level that I play at most zergs still stay in macro mode. I don't know if any zerg has ever tried to 2 base roach me but I think it would be pretty easy to hold, especially if I'm dropping that early robotics facility.Last edit: 2012-07-17 14:48:31 |
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| aBstractx United States. July 17 2012 14:43. Posts 249 | Profile # |
Last edit: 2012-07-17 14:43:47 |
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| aZealot New Zealand. July 17 2012 14:50. Posts 1406 | Profile # |
Hi, saw the second replay. Man, that is an early Nexus at ~4.40. Your wall is up in time too to hold off Speedlings with 2 pylon and forge. I'd be curious to see how you hold against a Roach-Ling all in though as I am not sure you will have the Sentry energy and the cannons in time. Also, why no Hallu? I'll watch some of the other replays later (time to ladder for a little while).
Thanks again for the build.
Edit/ See you responded to my Hallu question. Sorry, just skimmed that post before hitting "find match".
Last edit: 2012-07-18 05:47:07 |
| | "Consider fully, act decisively" - Jigoro Kano |
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| Gamma4 Australia. July 17 2012 15:50. Posts 74 | Profile # | |
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| cmcnutt34 United States. July 18 2012 04:11. Posts 43 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 13:57 aBstractx wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 13:47 cmcnutt34 wrote:
What would you say makes the 1 gate FE better than Nony's 2 gate FE. With the 2 gate I just feel that the zerg is obligated to drone less and be a tad frightened to take a third too quickly. Many games will be won with pure confusion or just taking 3 hatches as if you were FFE'ing at Plat or diamond level. But at a Masters level where people react better, what does make this build superior?
Not familiar with Nonys 2 gate FE BUT from the sound of it you're saying because of the 2 gates zergs are generally scared to take a fast third? The difference in the build is probably the focus on economy. Each game for me varies. Let me give you a situation that happens sometimes. Zerg takes a 5 minute third against you. you have +1 on the way & 3 gateways. The entire time you've been chronoboosting probes so your economy is BOOMING. if you pressure early(i'd say around 7 min mark), with zealot and stalkers you should be able to take out the third base all while grabbing one of your own. If the zerg is assuming a big push based on your build maybe they will cut drones hard and go roaches but even in this situation, you still win. you don't kill the third but as long as you don't over commit you can just retreat with a worker lead & place down a third. brb gonna go familiarize myself with nonys build. =/ edit: Nony likes to pressure with a ton of sentries and zealots. that's cute but sentries are so brittle and weak honestly that I prefer to not make any more than three until after my initial push. the reason being is because with 3 full energy sentries I can place optimal force fields vs lings & i'll have guardian shield. If the zerg is defending with just lings you have +1 zealots, you just warp in heavy on the zealots and you roll his third assuming you hit early enough. If he's defending with roaches the zerg usually will get out roughly 10-20 roaches and then start following that with lings. your upgraded stalker can focus fire roaches down easily. kite until lings are dead and kill roaches. If zerg prepares well for this make sure not to over commit and fall back and safely expand. keep in mind, that with a heavy sentry push if you lose that army you are f*cked over completely. how do you recover from that? nony then has to cower in his base all game defending at which zerg has that time to power drone. but if you don't build sentries until after your push when you are trying to hold the zergs aggression then they are much more useful and at the same time not nearly as game-ending if lost. edit#2 like i originally thought. he doesn't power probes like i do. his nexus is dropped around 37 food where mine is dropped on 30 food. i'd say i would have about 80 probes in a 14 minute game. the key is dropping your gateways #4-7/8 in time for defending that aggression that will come from the zerg. but this like i mentioned in the guide, is hard for me to put a particular time stamp on because you may or may not kill his third. so many variables are present in the mid game for this build that its important you have a good feel for the game in order to play accordingly to what zerg is doing.
I understand very well now, thank you for such a detailed and helpful response!
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| gsbElfenLied Sweden. July 18 2012 04:23. Posts 45 | Profile # |
| Doesn't a regular FFE give a better econ than this? |
| | If i type something interesting here, will you respect my opinion more? |
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| cmcnutt34 United States. July 18 2012 04:30. Posts 43 | Profile # |
On July 18 2012 04:23 gsbElfenLied wrote:
Doesn't a regular FFE give a better econ than this?
It may or may not but that's not the main point that I would see to using this. This doesn't let a Zerg take a quick 3rd, you'll never have to face stephano style play, and It's much more safe. That's my main points for using it. |
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| RGB Switzerland. July 18 2012 21:08. Posts 7 | Profile # |
On July 18 2012 04:23 gsbElfenLied wrote:
Doesn't a regular FFE give a better econ than this?
Things are always relative. The goal is not to have an absolute better economy, the goal is to have a better economy compared to the economy of the zerg. That's cute to have 40 workers at the 5th minute but if the Zerg has 80 then it is kind of weak. At the same time if you only have 25 workers but the zerg is at 20 at the 5th minute, you have a less good economy in absolute value but the situation is much better (I have no idea of the real numbers, that is just to illustrate). Now I don't know if this build is better than FFE but I know the question that makes sense is what is the economy relative to the one of the zerg.
Concerning the build, when I do 1 gate expand I always like to get 1 or 2 stalkers to put some pressure while expanding. I always check the gas so that I know how long I can stay on the map with the stalkers. I feel like this force many lings very early in the game and give you good scouting, while only slightly delaying your expand. What do you think ? |
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| Teoita Italy. July 18 2012 21:51. Posts 4253 | Profile Blog # |
I keep going back and forth on my opinion on 1gate/cyber openings in PvZ. On the one hand, it does feel zerg into an unconfortable position as he has to account for lots of more "random" timings that may go his way. On the other hand, if i am going to take passive/fast third i might as well have as much economy as possible, so i might as well just do some kind of ffe/immortal expand.
Since you play gate/cyber openings at a much higher level than me, what do you think of 1) taking a faster second gas and 2) always opening with a stalker as a second unit off your gateway to get some map control, maybe get lucky and snipe an overlord, and more importantly deny scouting and not show where all your gas is going (like in older sentry expands) so that zerg also has to account for the possibility of a fast stargate or dt's? |
| | Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright. |
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 Oneiros United States. July 19 2012 14:51. Posts 10 | Profile # |
I used a game where i was slightly favored as an opportunity to try out this build, and i have to say that it turned out really well. It seemed very safe throughout the opening, and i got the forge before the two extra gates, so the +1 was pretty quick too. Right after warpgate finished I did a light push (i'm more comfortable with sentry zealot, so that's what i used) and was able to kill the third. After that, i grabbed a third and started pumping out colossus, while getting blink and my +2, and storm a little later, and at this point my army was like twice as big as his, so i was able to grab a super quick fourth and get a mothership.
Honestly, after i killed his third, i probably could have just done a two base sentry immortal, or blink all-in, but i needed to practice my pvz late game :D |
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