| Semmo Korea (South). July 17 2012 16:04. Posts 394 | Profile # |
[M] (3) Autumn Woods
Playable Size: 160x160
Published in KR (가을숲) and NA
Overview
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/R3vpT.jpg)
Pretty Pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hello. I'm back with a 3 player map, this one took a while to make (3playermap).
Tested like 5 games so far, people like it aesthetically and balance wise. I'm pretty proud of it, I think I did ok.
THE EDGES ARE NO FLY ZONES, ESSENTIALLY THE BOUNDARY OF THE MAP.Last edit: 2012-07-19 17:54:12 |
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| lost_artz United States. July 17 2012 17:00. Posts 299 | Profile # |
There definitely is a lot of air space isn't there O_o. Such is the nature of (3) though. I think if you can fix the obvious layout issues, such as each natural being slightly different from one another in terms of the ramps and chokes, that you're off to an excellent start.
The only other thing of concern is the distance between 3rd (player A or B)/4ths (opposite player). All that is separating them is an expansion (the 5ths) but it's all the same level so it's a straight shot between the two. As such raising the 5ths to high-ground with rocks on both ramps (Entombed Valley Style) might be a better option. It cuts the map up some and doesn't give each player a straight path to their opponents base and it also makes them more defend-able. |
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| Insomni7 July 17 2012 17:09. Posts 595 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 17:00 lost_artz wrote:
There definitely is a lot of air space isn't there O_o. Such is the nature of (3) though. I think if you can fix the obvious layout issues, such as each natural being slightly different from one another in terms of the ramps and chokes, that you're off to an excellent start.
The only other thing of concern is the distance between 3rd (player A or B)/4ths (opposite player). All that is separating them is an expansion (the 5ths) but it's all the same level so it's a straight shot between the two. As such raising the 5ths to high-ground with rocks on both ramps (Entombed Valley Style) might be a better option. It cuts the map up some and doesn't give each player a straight path to their opponents base and it also makes them more defend-able.
but wouldnt this map just encourage you to expand in the opposite direction? you would expand around the triangle away from your opponent. If you were terran you might choose to expand toward your opponent but I think that is ok. |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 17 2012 17:56. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 17:09 Insomni7 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 17:00 lost_artz wrote:
There definitely is a lot of air space isn't there O_o. Such is the nature of (3) though. I think if you can fix the obvious layout issues, such as each natural being slightly different from one another in terms of the ramps and chokes, that you're off to an excellent start.
The only other thing of concern is the distance between 3rd (player A or B)/4ths (opposite player). All that is separating them is an expansion (the 5ths) but it's all the same level so it's a straight shot between the two. As such raising the 5ths to high-ground with rocks on both ramps (Entombed Valley Style) might be a better option. It cuts the map up some and doesn't give each player a straight path to their opponents base and it also makes them more defend-able.
but wouldnt this map just encourage you to expand in the opposite direction? you would expand around the triangle away from your opponent. If you were terran you might choose to expand toward your opponent but I think that is ok.
Thanks for getting the map! there is a choosable third so you can expand away from your opponent. |
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| Ragoo Germany. July 17 2012 18:03. Posts 2205 | Profile # |
Hm 3 player autumn map, where have I seen that before?^^
As I say way too often, I find this map very boring and standard. Maybe you should take a look at some awesome 3 player maps from BW to get inspiration. |
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| OxyGenesis United Kingdom. July 17 2012 20:57. Posts 278 | Profile # |
I don't think I would even attempt a 3 player map, they look super hard so props for giving it a go!
I think it looks pretty solid. Those middle bases with the high ground round them i think could be a lot more interesting though. I would be tempted to put them on the high ground and push them back or forward a bit. I also think you should do something in the middle. |
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| Fatam July 17 2012 21:08. Posts 922 | Profile # |
Dat middle of the map as zerg.. they will /salivate. I don't know if it's a horrible horrible thing though.
It seems (maybe it's just the pic) that the airspace isn't symmetrical (top left airspace is bigger than the other 2). Idk if that's a huge deal as you could maybe make them all equal with no fly zones.
If I had to make 1 structural change to the map.. I would take out the 3 middle expansions (3/6/9 o'clock-ish), move those ledges inward a bit, and that would create a back alley of attack. Just a thought. (that would also cut down a tad on the openness of the map which might be a good thing)
edit - if it was being played as a 3 player FFA or something I suppose removing those 3 bases would leave it at 4 bases each which would be a hair limiting, but if it's only 2 players playing then there would still be plenty.Last edit: 2012-07-17 21:11:53 |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 17 2012 21:34. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 18:03 Ragoo wrote:Hm 3 player autumn map, where have I seen that before?^^ As I say way too often, I find this map very boring and standard. Maybe you should take a look at some awesome 3 player maps from BW to get inspiration.
O_o there was an autumn 3 player map before!?!? Damn it.
No point making interesting 3 player map. A balanced one wasnt even made yet.
Fatam and oxy//
The trees block movement, so its not THAT open.
You need the central bases because otherwise 4ths would be way too close together.Last edit: 2012-07-17 21:36:51 |
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 Aunvilgod July 17 2012 21:41. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
Aside from the fact that I think 3 player maps in general are imba due to ramp positioning (as can be seen at the natural - third) not too bad of a try. Make sure that every player has the same area to defend to hold a 3rd and 4th. Make sure every player has an equally open natural which can be walled the same way.
I think there are too many bases around the edges of the map. In my opinion you should remove the center ones with the highground next to them. In the current state of the map the edges are just too packed.
To judge the aesthetics some close ups would be helpful. Your airspace does not look finished, either. |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 17 2012 21:46. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 21:41 Aunvilgod wrote:
Aside from the fact that I think 3 player maps in general are imba due to ramp positioning (as can be seen at the natural - third) not too bad of a try. Make sure that every player has the same area to defend to hold a 3rd and 4th. Make sure every player has an equally open natural which can be walled the same way.
I think there are too many bases around the edges of the map. In my opinion you should remove the center ones with the highground next to them. In the current state of the map the edges are just too packed.
To judge the aesthetics some close ups would be helpful. Your airspace does not look finished, either.
There are 15. 4 player maos have 16.
If there were fewer your fourth would be too close to your opp.
The ramp direction doesnt ruin the map i think. Small price to pay.
Every nat third wideness is the same. I could make it so that they are less accesible though.
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| Aunvilgod July 17 2012 21:51. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
I think if you remove the center bases the players will most likely expand like they do on Vicious or Whirlwind.
blablablablaLast edit: 2012-07-17 22:14:01 |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 17 2012 21:54. Posts 394 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 21:51 Aunvilgod wrote:
I think if you remove the center bases the players will most likely expand like they do on Vicious or Whirlwind.
You have to remember its a triangle - on those maps you can always expand away if not same dist from your opp but here if i remove center bases the 4th will be soo close, which i dont think is goos. Ergh what a dillema. What do you think. |
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| Aunvilgod July 17 2012 22:01. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
Oh right, just noticed it wouldn´t work...
You could try to move these bases to the center and make them 6m1hyg. It could help about the cramping. I guess you will have to experiment a bit.Last edit: 2012-07-17 22:02:51 |
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| HeeroFX United States. July 17 2012 22:01. Posts 1912 | Profile Blog # |
| Too much air space. Map just seems really akward to play on.... |
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| Aunvilgod July 17 2012 22:04. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 22:01 HeeroFX wrote:
Too much air space. Map just seems really akward to play on....
Now aside from the fact that you should really read the whole OP, what is up with too much airspace? It makes sense to limit the airspace around the main and natural bases, but on the edges? Have you heard of a single complaint about MLG Metropolis by a pro due to balance issues? |
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| a176 Canada. July 17 2012 22:23. Posts 5382 | Profile Blog # |
On July 17 2012 22:04 Aunvilgod wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 22:01 HeeroFX wrote:
Too much air space. Map just seems really akward to play on....
Now aside from the fact that you should really read the whole OP, what is up with too much airspace? It makes sense to limit the airspace around the main and natural bases, but on the edges? Have you heard of a single complaint about MLG Metropolis by a pro due to balance issues?
theres really only one base that can be abused by air in metropolis. with these 3p maps, its hard to place the surrounding expos and deal with air space. in this map, there are a lot of bases that are abusable by air. in all reality, it probably won't be a problem in the metagame, but the issue is forcing players to go strictly air to deal with air is kind of silly.
also OP, dont you think the north base ramp should mimic the other bases, being in three directions?Last edit: 2012-07-17 22:23:58 |
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| Aunvilgod July 17 2012 22:42. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 22:23 a176 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 22:04 Aunvilgod wrote:
On July 17 2012 22:01 HeeroFX wrote:
Too much air space. Map just seems really akward to play on....
Now aside from the fact that you should really read the whole OP, what is up with too much airspace? It makes sense to limit the airspace around the main and natural bases, but on the edges? Have you heard of a single complaint about MLG Metropolis by a pro due to balance issues?
theres really only one base that can be abused by air in metropolis. with these 3p maps, its hard to place the surrounding expos and deal with air space. in this map, there are a lot of bases that are abusable by air. in all reality, it probably won't be a problem in the metagame, but the issue is forcing players to go strictly air to deal with air is kind of silly.
I really doubt it would force air. And with properly placed flight blockers the bases won´t even be very open either.
On July 17 2012 22:23 a176 wrote:also OP, dont you think the north base ramp should mimic the other bases, being in three directions?
Thats the fundamental problem of 3 player maps I talked about. It is impossible. |
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| Ragoo Germany. July 17 2012 23:01. Posts 2205 | Profile # |
On July 17 2012 21:34 kim9067 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 18:03 Ragoo wrote:Hm 3 player autumn map, where have I seen that before?^^ As I say way too often, I find this map very boring and standard. Maybe you should take a look at some awesome 3 player maps from BW to get inspiration.
O_o there was an autumn 3 player map before!?!? Damn it. No point making interesting 3 player map. A balanced one wasnt even made yet.
Meh, I consider ESV Sanctuary a standard balanced 3p map. And there have been some other maps less refined. I don't think we need more of these... |
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| iGrok United States. July 17 2012 23:40. Posts 4209 | Profile Blog # |
Timmay is really good at making his 3p maps symmetric, including ramps. See here.
Not bad, but the top ramps are really different than the other two and that throws it off. Plus, going by the borders of the overview, the airspace behind mains is extremely different depending on spawn. Basically, if one base a banshee can escape by hiding behind the main and in another base it can't, that's imba. |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 18 2012 00:40. Posts 394 | Profile # |
Why wont people just read the post.. Dont mention the airspace, its not worth it.. I said i would change it.... Sigh. Yet more comments on airspace will follow.
Also
Ragoo// i dont that map is that good :/ |
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