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| eSuBuildings United States. July 18 2012 04:50. Posts 58 | Profile Blog # |
So I had the idea of making a map, but I suck at map making. So I'm enlisting the help of anyone who wants to give it a shot.
Here's the deal. After watching Ryung vs DRG in GSL Code S Ro8, I started to burst into tears because of how beautiful it was. Moving pieces all over the map, no giant deathball vs deathball all game long, it was like the absolute most perfect game of Starcraft 2. What attributed to this? I feel the map, GSL Whirlwind did in the most part. It's a very big map, with little amounts of dead space, but still enough for early game OL's to take a rest for Zerg players, a very wide open midsection, and also small pathways on the outer section of the mid for counters and runbys, etc. For those who didnt' see the game, here it is. And also for those who are unfamiliar with the map, here.
But onto the idea I had in mind, I figured that the collective mind of the mapmaking community can help me out here. The map can be done all the way up to what your imagination wants it to be as long as it has the following:
-Small amounts of dead space, a lot of land
-Unique bases (not just boring 8 patch 2 gas)
-A large no fly zone between the two starting locations like so and the rest of the white space shown in the picture is where you can fit all the shit you want.
the reasoning for the no fly zone is so that Zerg won't get an early game advantage by just insta scouting what his opponent has and drops won't be super duper deadly and abusive. The no fly zone doesn't have to fit the entire area of the center crevasse, as the exact size is up to you, but you guys should catch my drift.
Okay. That's enough for me. Make fun of me, ignore me, indulge in my request, whatever you want. k bye |
| | BuildingS | Masters Zerg | twitter.com/BuildingSSC2 | Coaching $15 an hour | ZvZ lessons are free |
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| Gfire United States. July 18 2012 04:56. Posts 1479 | Profile # |
This is an interesting concept. The use on no-fly zones between spawning positions on close-by-air maps is something I've considered before. TBH the no-fly zones kinda mess with pathing and can be confusing for players, though. I'm not sure if they should be used, but it might be worth a shot.
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| | ESV Mapmaking Team -- @TheGfire |
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| Veloh15 United States. July 18 2012 05:14. Posts 158 | Profile # |
| No fly zones are a little unfair for the zerg. I think that this would allow for small marine squads to snip most overlords. I think you also have to keep in mind that zerg does not have scans or observers so getting to their opponent's base is a priority. As well as the fly zones being rather confusing for players who are playing on a map for the first time. Although innovating is always needed maps need to be easily read by the players. When pros play on maps they shouldn't have to spend time trying to understand the map instead they should be focused on the game. As for the small amounts of dead space it is a really creative idea, and I think would lead to interesting engagements, but with a 4 player map some late game engagements are not always going to end up in the middle. I think this would favor broodlords because archon toilets would be harder to pull off. Still a really interesting idea. I might start working on a map including some of these features! |
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| Tuczniak Czech Republic. July 18 2012 05:24. Posts 969 | Profile # |
| Is there something like a storm or super high building/structure? Placing something like that in space could give you a hint that you cant fly over there. |
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| Gfire United States. July 18 2012 05:25. Posts 1479 | Profile # |
Oh, when you say "small amounts of dead space" does that mean less dead space than a regular map, or, in particular, adding small chunks of dead space (meaning more dead space than a regular map.)
Personally, I thought that the Ryung vs DRG game ended with a very ugly battle. I theorized that this was due to all the dead space next to the very tight choke point and long route to walk around for any type of flank, resulting in a situation where, in combination with fungal, DRG was able to force an engagement in a very tight space, which should be avoided whenever possible because battles in tight spaces are ugly and not very fun to watch. A tight space should favor the defender (the guy who isn't eager to engage) so that you don't really see battles there. It usually does but the dead space makes BLs very good so dead space next to a choke point can be bad.
Generally I think the less dead space the better. It puts more focus on the ground units, which are far more positional and interesting that air units which can go anywhere. Air units also make battles uglier to encouraging players to use air units for their mobility and not as much in straight-up fighting can be a good thing, and limiting dead space helps this, since dead space really helps air units out during battles. |
| | ESV Mapmaking Team -- @TheGfire |
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| a176 Canada. July 18 2012 06:03. Posts 5429 | Profile Blog # |
| no fly zones are not exactly implemented correctly in the game. they are spherical, so you cant just have an 'area' that's no fly. your units will kind of skirt around the no fly zones in a wave like motion, following the outside of these circles. it looks kind of silly. |
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| Ragoo Germany. July 18 2012 06:29. Posts 2207 | Profile # |
No fly zones are one of the most unintuitive things ever and such a big one imo is too game changing.
I'm all in favor of innovation but can't you start with something smaller :D |
| | Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud |
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| Monochromatic United States. July 18 2012 07:30. Posts 635 | Profile Blog # |
| The problem with no fly zone is that it doesn't make sense. You would have to put something there to show the players that you can't go there, otherwise it would be a confusing mess. |
| | MC: "Guys I need your support! iam poor make me nerd baller" __________________________________________RIP Violet |
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| eSuBuildings United States. July 18 2012 07:40. Posts 58 | Profile Blog # |
Well my idea was to have a starting area that WASN'T on the edge of the map. To utilzie the entire map, I'd figure to have them start in the center and then go outward and have a buffer like a giant wall or something like that to prevent early air play from being abused or to prevent Zerg from having an eyeball on his opponent from the get-go. If you have any other ideas, I and the other people willing to make my request a reality would be itching to hear them.
Of course this kind of map wouldn't be used or considered at all for tournament play unless you cartographers did an absolutely outstanding job right away.
Oh, and if any of you peeps do get your mapmaking skills rolling with my idea in mind, feel free to post ANYTHING about it in this thread. It can be as small as concept drawings, little doodads, or finished products. Anything visual that you guys can provide would be pretty cool. c: |
| | BuildingS | Masters Zerg | twitter.com/BuildingSSC2 | Coaching $15 an hour | ZvZ lessons are free |
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| Monochromatic United States. July 18 2012 07:49. Posts 635 | Profile Blog # |
On July 18 2012 07:40 eSuBuildings wrote:
Well my idea was to have a starting area that WASN'T on the edge of the map. To utilzie the entire map, I'd figure to have them start in the center and then go outward and have a buffer like a giant wall or something like that to prevent early air play from being abused or to prevent Zerg from having an eyeball on his opponent from the get-go. If you have any other ideas, I and the other people willing to make my request a reality would be itching to hear them.
Of course this kind of map wouldn't be used or considered at all for tournament play unless you cartographers did an absolutely outstanding job right away.
Oh, and if any of you peeps do get your mapmaking skills rolling with my idea in mind, feel free to post ANYTHING about it in this thread. It can be as small as concept drawings, little doodads, or finished products. Anything visual that you guys can provide would be pretty cool. c:
Here is a quick drawing I did, Is this what you had in mind?
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: Also, the perfect Doodad to show nofly, "Xel'Naga Reactor Small"
+ Show Spoiler +Last edit: 2012-07-18 07:54:43 |
| | MC: "Guys I need your support! iam poor make me nerd baller" __________________________________________RIP Violet |
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| eSuBuildings United States. July 18 2012 07:59. Posts 58 | Profile Blog # |
| Your drawing is a little bit unclear but I guess you have the right idea. |
| | BuildingS | Masters Zerg | twitter.com/BuildingSSC2 | Coaching $15 an hour | ZvZ lessons are free |
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| Facultyadjutant Sweden. July 18 2012 08:00. Posts 1172 | Profile Blog # |
The game was great, I give you that.
The concept of complaining about the no fly zone is retarded, as it surely can give new elements, maybe destructible from the ground?
Hope to see more features as mapping goes on.Last edit: 2012-07-18 08:03:54 |
| | IDRA NUMBER #1, ALL DAY, EVERY DAY - No one leaves the family - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Miya, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2 |
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