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| Johanaz Denmark. July 22 2012 21:22. Posts 363 | Profile # |
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nnTk3.jpg)
In my ongoing attempt to resuscitate the all-spawn 4 player map by fusioning rotational and reflective symmetry, I now bring you Cuatros Mesas.
Published (v 0.5) on EU & NA servers
156x144
4 spawns (all enabled)
16 bases (2 center bases are 6m1hy)
2 watchtowers
Angled overview:+ Show Spoiler +
It's basically a reworked Rusty Cage but smaller.
Let me know what you think.Last edit: 2012-08-06 08:22:52 |
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 Plexa Administrator July 22 2012 21:34. | Profile Blog # |
I like it. It's interesting and I can't quite work out how everything will play out from a glance. Is it uploaded anywhere?
A little bit worried about Top vs Top and Bottom vs Bottom though - I would imagine Terrans expanding towards with PF (and possibly tanks) would be a bit tricky to stop?Last edit: 2012-07-22 21:35:51 |
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 Aunvilgod July 22 2012 21:35. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
Looks very solid. I don´t see any obvious flaws. Unfortunately there is no way of telling if all spawns are balanced without extensive testing on the highest level. Then again this is true for any map.
Could you maybe move the tower one or two hexes to the bottom so you can sneak by larger armies?
tl;dr: good jobLast edit: 2012-07-22 21:37:48 |
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 Sea_Food Finland. July 22 2012 21:53. Posts 1612 | Profile Blog # |
I used online translator on the word "resussitate" without any results 
That map looks otherwise nice, except i dont understand why didnt you go full reflective symmetry instead. You would have avoided so many slight imbalanced.
Like top left, and bottom right bases have 3rd linear with main and 2nd, meaning its much easier to defend vs air harassment. Also their thirds seem to be farther away from the destructiple rocks, meaning its not as shootable by units from the other side.
Also are the aesthetics not finished? You should tell that in the OP.Last edit: 2012-07-22 21:54:53 |
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| sorrowptoss Canada. July 22 2012 22:37. Posts 999 | Profile Blog # |
I just want to point out something in the map creation community. Besides this map, and very few other maps, there are only protoss-based maps that are created. I mean, I don't know but map creators seem to prefer the color schemes and textures of protoss-based maps, but it would be nice if there were more maps like this.
About this map, I would say that the only read problem is vertical spawn positions, meaning 11 o'clock vs 7 o'clock and 1 o'clock vs 5 o'clock, because the 4th "normal" base is really close to both mains, and since it's on a higher ground, tank pushing would be strong, perhaps too strong, I don't know it's just my opinion. But generally I think the fact that all places on this map have at least two different entry points, so that's great for flanking for zerg, |
| | Flash, Taeja, MvP, Jaedong, Stephano fighting! DEMUSLIM is the most awesome person in the world! |
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| Aunvilgod July 22 2012 22:49. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
On July 22 2012 22:37 sorrowptoss wrote:
I just want to point out something in the map creation community. Besides this map, and very few other maps, there are only protoss-based maps that are created. I mean, I don't know but map creators seem to prefer the color schemes and textures of protoss-based maps, but it would be nice if there were more maps like this.
Protoss or Xel´Naga maps are easier. You can do a pretty protoss map faster than a terran map. I myself don´t want to do zerg details because in my opinion the map would need to be creeped, which would confuse the crap out of everyone.
Last edit: 2012-07-22 22:50:08 |
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dezi  Germany. July 22 2012 23:29. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
| Upload at EU if you haven't already. Played a lot of games yesterday on TPW maps and might do so today, too ^^ |
| | TPW Member | My Maps @ TL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=171486 | Search 'dezi' at EU |
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| monitor United States. July 23 2012 02:48. Posts 2279 | Profile Blog # |
Tbh this looks nearly identical to Rusty Cage. I don't like it very much because of the linear expo pattern, and the layout itself is kind of boring. I mean its solid, but the symmetry doesn't make up for the lack of interesting parts. Purely subjective though, I suppose.
I think the close ground positions (vertical spawns) are going to be too close by ground. Also I don't like the middle expos being gold- terran is the most powerful race to take middle bases and golds already favor terran because their army is so mineral heavy.
[edit]
Actually I think horizontal spawn positions are going to be bad for TvZ beause Terran (and Protoss in PvZ) can take the center expo and make it very difficult for Zerg to do anything. Most of the pro players these days say forward expansions are very Terran favored.Last edit: 2012-07-23 02:51:59 |
| | Starcraft 2 Mapmaker for TPW || Author of Korhal Compound |
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| Johanaz Denmark. July 23 2012 03:42. Posts 363 | Profile # |
Now available on NA & EU servers.
Thanks for all the feedback guys!
I'll try and fix those issues and make it less boring 
Next tho, is testing - see if I can get some Masters terran to PF push thru forward bases and listen to some complaints.
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| -NegativeZero- United States. July 23 2012 03:50. Posts 585 | Profile # |
| The sets of 2 bases on the top and bottom look possibly too close when the rocks are destroyed - it makes it extremely easy to move between defending those 2 bases as well as the natural. |
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| Chargelot July 23 2012 03:52. Posts 2274 | Profile Blog # |
This map is incredibly standard. And that is the single greatest compliment I have ever given to a map. The more simplistic (sorry if that sounds harsh) texture patterns makes everything easily discernable, and while the expansion progression may be linear, this is also true of pretty much every ladder map.
It's nice to see a standard map with standard aesthetics that just looks like it.. works.
My only complaint is that each natural has small spots around the cliff edges which drop down, and it almost looks like you could hide a reaper at 7 o'clock. Last edit: 2012-07-23 03:53:02 |
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| Aunvilgod July 23 2012 04:28. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 03:52 Chargelot wrote:
This map is incredibly standard. And that is the single greatest compliment I have ever given to a map. The more simplistic (sorry if that sounds harsh) texture patterns makes everything easily discernable, and while the expansion progression may be linear, this is also true of pretty much every ladder map.
It's nice to see a standard map with standard aesthetics that just looks like it.. works.
My only complaint is that each natural has small spots around the cliff edges which drop down, and it almost looks like you could hide a reaper at 7 o'clock.
This map does not have standard aesthetics, this has no aesthetics. |
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| FlaShFTW United States. July 23 2012 04:44. Posts 4959 | Profile Blog # |
On July 22 2012 22:37 sorrowptoss wrote:
I just want to point out something in the map creation community. Besides this map, and very few other maps, there are only protoss-based maps that are created. I mean, I don't know but map creators seem to prefer the color schemes and textures of protoss-based maps, but it would be nice if there were more maps like this.
About this map, I would say that the only read problem is vertical spawn positions, meaning 11 o'clock vs 7 o'clock and 1 o'clock vs 5 o'clock, because the 4th "normal" base is really close to both mains, and since it's on a higher ground, tank pushing would be strong, perhaps too strong, I don't know it's just my opinion. But generally I think the fact that all places on this map have at least two different entry points, so that's great for flanking for zerg,
4th base wouldn't be taken then. They would continue to expand horizontally, breaking the rocks to access the next base.
imo, Terrans is really strong on this map. Considering they have PFs, they could expand horizontally if there were horizontal spawns and slow tank push across the map. Same thing with vertical. Terran could take both the 9/3 base and the corresponding gold bases with PFs. |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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| Chargelot July 23 2012 04:51. Posts 2274 | Profile Blog # |
On July 23 2012 04:28 Aunvilgod wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 03:52 Chargelot wrote:
This map is incredibly standard. And that is the single greatest compliment I have ever given to a map. The more simplistic (sorry if that sounds harsh) texture patterns makes everything easily discernable, and while the expansion progression may be linear, this is also true of pretty much every ladder map.
It's nice to see a standard map with standard aesthetics that just looks like it.. works.
My only complaint is that each natural has small spots around the cliff edges which drop down, and it almost looks like you could hide a reaper at 7 o'clock.
This map does not have standard aesthetics, this has no aesthetics.
The only thing this map is missing is foliage (including placeable objects) and something around the edges. But you get the idea that he's not going for the extremely complicated textures of the former version, Rusty Cage. Compare to:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/b/ba/Shakuras_Plateau_2.0.jpg) Which has an incredibly simplistic texture set, without unnecessary doodads or texture switching ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/8/86/Entombed_Valley.jpg) Extremely simplistic aesthetics, only with foliage and plant doodads. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/b/bc/CondemnedRidge-550.jpg) etc etc etc.
The map isn't exactly aestheticless, it's just missing the final touches. It needs a fancy non-playable area, and some doodads. But it's not exactly a blank canvas:
+ Show Spoiler +
Sure, from here he could go completely crazy with it and make it completely unreadable like Rusty Cage, But at least in its current state, the minimalistic texture set works nicely.
edit: I'm using foliage as both literal foliage and just "plant life", like doodad trees. Sorry if it's confusing. Last edit: 2012-07-23 05:06:44 |
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| Johanaz Denmark. July 23 2012 05:06. Posts 363 | Profile # |
He he - yeah the aesthetics are incomplete to say the least. I'm posting this early concept to get some good feedback before I go overboard and make the map unreadable with awesome deco. I often go too far with deco, making layout adjustments really complex. On the other hand it's hard to get useable map test feedback on a blank map.
You guys have adressed the issues that I wasn't sure about plus put light on some additional stuff I wasn't aware of.
That's what I wanted, so thanks! |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 23 2012 08:30. Posts 398 | Profile # |
Hola.
Cuatro Mesas? Four tables? Weird name for a map xP
At first, I thought it was once again similar to my map, Underwater Paradise, but realized that it's not. Phew.
Please no shifted reflective symmetry. REALLY no reason for that.
I thought this map would be cross only, but if it's not, I don't think it'll work well.
By the way I think gold bases are imbalanced.
Also: 154x144? T.T Why would you do this.
But, I want to thank you for not making a boring ass 2 player standard map. |
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| NewSunshine United States. July 23 2012 08:51. Posts 1014 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 08:30 kim9067 wrote:
Hola.
Cuatro Mesas? Four tables? Weird name for a map xP
At first, I thought it was once again similar to my map, Underwater Paradise, but realized that it's not. Phew.
Please no shifted reflective symmetry. REALLY no reason for that.
I thought this map would be cross only, but if it's not, I don't think it'll work well.
By the way I think gold bases are imbalanced.
Also: 154x144? T.T Why would you do this.
But, I want to thank you for not making a boring ass 2 player standard map.
It's actually mixed symmetry. The main and natural are placed rotationally, the rest is closer to reflective. |
| | [ESV mapmaking team member] [Former DF map team founder] [@ESVNewSunshine] |
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| Xgorden Sweden. July 23 2012 10:39. Posts 24 | Profile # |
I like the map, though i really feel that it should be cross only. You can easily expand close to a players natural as your forth(or third) and there is not much you can do about it.
I think that there should not be gold bases in the middle, Zergs can easily take a fast gold as a third vs a protoss. It's already good in some cases on Antiga, so this is just way to strong IMO. |
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| Semmo Korea (South). July 23 2012 14:20. Posts 398 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 08:51 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 08:30 kim9067 wrote:
Hola.
Cuatro Mesas? Four tables? Weird name for a map xP
At first, I thought it was once again similar to my map, Underwater Paradise, but realized that it's not. Phew.
Please no shifted reflective symmetry. REALLY no reason for that.
I thought this map would be cross only, but if it's not, I don't think it'll work well.
By the way I think gold bases are imbalanced.
Also: 154x144? T.T Why would you do this.
But, I want to thank you for not making a boring ass 2 player standard map.
It's actually mixed symmetry. The main and natural are placed rotationally, the rest is closer to reflective.
I know...
Its a mix between rotational and reflective. The thing is you can make the reflective part completely symmetrical, yet he chose shifted. |
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| NewSunshine United States. July 23 2012 14:23. Posts 1014 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 14:20 kim9067 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 08:51 NewSunshine wrote:
On July 23 2012 08:30 kim9067 wrote:
Hola.
Cuatro Mesas? Four tables? Weird name for a map xP
At first, I thought it was once again similar to my map, Underwater Paradise, but realized that it's not. Phew.
Please no shifted reflective symmetry. REALLY no reason for that.
I thought this map would be cross only, but if it's not, I don't think it'll work well.
By the way I think gold bases are imbalanced.
Also: 154x144? T.T Why would you do this.
But, I want to thank you for not making a boring ass 2 player standard map.
It's actually mixed symmetry. The main and natural are placed rotationally, the rest is closer to reflective.
I know... Its a mix between rotational and reflective. The thing is you can make the reflective part completely symmetrical, yet he chose shifted.
Well, the thing is, there's no actual reflection going on, it's more of a freestyle thing, like you'd do in a 2p map. So for all practical purposes, it's reflected, but it looking shifted or not isn't really an intentional thing. It doesn't really matter anyway. |
| | [ESV mapmaking team member] [Former DF map team founder] [@ESVNewSunshine] |
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