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| Kazius Israel. July 23 2012 19:52. Posts 1388 | Profile Blog # |
Ever feel like you get marginalized on your opinions despite being perfectly rational and thought out on internet forums? Reddit? Twitter? Wikipedia?
This may not be an accident. When stumbling upon a post on Slashdot, which was deleted less than five minutes after posting, I found an explanation of how people can manipulate forums. It's really quite simple. People do this all the time. But, this doesn't work if the users are aware of the manipulation. So, read this, and learn to recognize it.
The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies is a recent post on cryptome, which is kind of a US-centric Wikileaks that focuses on information relevant to keeping the US democracy honest. This guide is wonderful in it's simplicity, and you may be surprised to see how much the "dirty" publicity techniques are being used everywhere.
From the guide:
There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a 'uncontrolled forum.'
Technique #1 - 'FORUM SLIDING'
If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum - it can be quickly removed from public view by 'forum sliding.' In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to 'age.' Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a 'forum slide.' The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a 'forum slide' and 'flush' the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then 'replying' to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting 'slides' down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.
There are six major techniques used. But the point of this guide is:
CONCLUSION
Remember these techniques are only effective if the forum participants DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM. Once they are aware of these techniques the operation can completely fail, and the forum can become uncontrolled. At this point other avenues must be considered such as initiating a false legal precidence to simply have the forum shut down and taken offline. This is not desirable as it then leaves the enforcement agencies unable to track the percentage of those in the population who always resist attempts for control against them. Many other techniques can be utilized and developed by the individual and as you develop further techniques of infiltration and control it is imperative to share then with HQ.
Read it. Love it. Learn it. Moderating should be done by moderators, not people paid to manipulate others.
edit: link to the full article for those who missed it: http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
edit 2: slashdot posts are appearing linking to the article, by different users this time;
links here: An Unusual Slashdot Conspiracy and Someone is censoring Slashdot
It seems that the original poster of this keeps getting his posts deleted now, and it has also appeared on Reddit: Censored slashdot post - describes in explicit detail how agents control and manipulate Internet forums
This may explain the amount of posts about this popping up in Slashdot now.Last edit: 2012-07-23 20:03:57 |
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sc2terran United States. July 23 2012 19:58. Posts 61 | Profile # |
should be a blog no?
User was warned for this post |
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thrawn2112 United States. July 23 2012 20:00. Posts 3599 | Profile Blog # |
i really wish i had an opinion on this but it is way too far outside my area of knowledge to come up with one
edit: ok i did some looking and i couldn't find any sort of good evidence of a true source. i wouldnt be surprised either way if this was a real leaked document because if some agency is as deeply involved in internet policing as that then that is pretty much how i'd expect them to go about it. however it seems as if whoever the author was, he wasn't trying to write a "how-to control a forum;" it looks like more of an attempt to write something that seems plausible and is worded and phrased in ways that make accepting it as a real leak an attractive idea to its readers. this is just the impression i got from reading it....i do not have any more evidence for my opinion than the author gave for his leak, so that's that.
tldr: i suspect that stuff like this goes on but i doubt this is an actual example of itLast edit: 2012-07-23 20:26:21 |
| | "People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES |
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zatic Germany. July 23 2012 20:00. Posts 11698 | Profile Blog # |
| I always knew Evilteletubbie was a commie spy. |
| | I know Teamliquid is known as a massive building |
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| Kazius Israel. July 23 2012 20:08. Posts 1388 | Profile Blog # |
On July 23 2012 19:58 sc2terran wrote: should be a blog no?
First I think it is important information. As I mentioned, these techniques work on people ignorant of them. Second, this is a general interest to anyone online. Third, I did not write this article, and putting it in a blog would infer that I had something to do with writing it. Fourth, this is a censorship story, which really isn't blog material. Fifth, the article is easy to read and very informative, but in no way personal.
So... no. |
| | Friendship is like peeing yourself. Anyone can see it, but only you get that warm feeling. |
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| czylu July 23 2012 20:15. Posts 294 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 20:08 Kazius wrote:First I think it is important information. As I mentioned, these techniques work on people ignorant of them. Second, this is a general interest to anyone online. Third, I did not write this article, and putting it in a blog would infer that I had something to do with writing it. Fourth, this is a censorship story, which really isn't blog material. Fifth, the article is easy to read and very informative, but in no way personal. So... no.
It seems to me you missed the point of his post >.>
On a more serious note, this is just a guide on how to troll people over the internet. |
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| Kazius Israel. July 23 2012 20:19. Posts 1388 | Profile Blog # |
On July 23 2012 20:15 czylu wrote: Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 20:08 Kazius wrote: On July 23 2012 19:58 sc2terran wrote: should be a blog no?
First I think it is important information. As I mentioned, these techniques work on people ignorant of them. Second, this is a general interest to anyone online. Third, I did not write this article, and putting it in a blog would infer that I had something to do with writing it. Fourth, this is a censorship story, which really isn't blog material. Fifth, the article is easy to read and very informative, but in no way personal. So... no.
It seems to me you missed the point of his post >.> On a more serious note, this is just a guide on how to troll people over the internet.
Not really. I've seen this used on Wikipedia (specifically, about Iran related topics this happens all the time), and used by media outlets (a LOT on news sites with comments)... as well as on at least 3 forums I'm a member of. |
| | Friendship is like peeing yourself. Anyone can see it, but only you get that warm feeling. |
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| nadafanboy42 Netherlands. July 23 2012 20:19. Posts 185 | Profile # |
Technique #4 - 'INFORMATION COLLECTION'
Information collection is also a very effective method to determine the psychological level of the forum members, and to gather intelligence that can be used against them. In this technique in a light and positive environment a 'show you mine so me yours' posting is initiated. From the number of replies and the answers that are provided much statistical information can be gathered. An example is to post your 'favourite weapon' and then encourage other members of the forum to showcase what they have. In this matter it can be determined by reverse proration what percentage of the forum community owns a firearm, and or a illegal weapon. This same method can be used by posing as one of the form members and posting your favourite 'technique of operation.' From the replies various methods that the group utilizes can be studied and effective methods developed to stop them from their activities.
I shudder to think what vile and loathsome motives lay behind this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=350217 |
| | NaDa/Jaedong/Liquid-Fanboy |
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Toorgr July 23 2012 20:19. Posts 54 | Profile # | |
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| Probe1 United States. July 23 2012 20:27. Posts 16445 | Profile Blog # |
rofl. Reddit is exactly like 4chan. Both think that they're incredibly important and believe in stupid conspiracies that affirm their importance.Last edit: 2012-07-23 20:27:27 |
| | 우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by | |
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Toorgr July 23 2012 20:32. Posts 54 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 20:27 Probe1 wrote:rofl. Reddit is exactly like 4chan. Both think that they're incredibly important and believe in stupid conspiracies that affirm their importance.
Well if you read these posts and the answers, it makes no questions that those pro military posts are not genuine.. How is that a conspiracy? |
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| r.Evo Germany. July 23 2012 20:33. Posts 5169 | Profile # |
| Looks like Machiavelli, Robert Greene & co. adapted to the interwebs to me. |
| | "We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross |
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| sekritzzz July 23 2012 20:36. Posts 1256 | Profile # |
I don't think many people realize that there is actually paid intelligence units/soldiers who have a job doing this type of bullshit all day. An example is Israel's IDF internet unit which is hired within their media department (*hint hint*).
The new unit, as well as an initiative by the Information and Diaspora Ministry to train people to represent Israel independently on the Internet and in other arenas
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/new-idf-unit-to-fight-enemies-on-facebook-twitter-1.3088
That's one of the reasons I don't join any israeli-related forum discussions much (on TL or other sites). Maybe people do get heated but i've noticed an obvious trend of random people whom i've never seen or heard of before suddenly posting 34/35 of their total posts in that thread generally driving that thread to the ground. People could be sincere but I dont want to waste my time with possible futile discussions.Last edit: 2012-07-23 20:38:31 |
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thrawn2112 United States. July 23 2012 21:50. Posts 3599 | Profile Blog # |
On July 23 2012 19:52 Kazius wrote: Ever feel like you get marginalized on your opinions despite being perfectly rational and thought out on internet forums? Reddit? Twitter? Wikipedia?
when does somebody think they being irrational |
| | "People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES |
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| Kazius Israel. July 23 2012 21:59. Posts 1388 | Profile Blog # |
On July 23 2012 21:50 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 19:52 Kazius wrote: Ever feel like you get marginalized on your opinions despite being perfectly rational and thought out on internet forums? Reddit? Twitter? Wikipedia?
when does somebody think they being irrational
It's quite easy: when you are perfectly calm and follow the logic of what you say, you are rational. Otherwise, you are not. Some people don't bother to distinguish rationality from irrationality in themselves, but anyone can if they try. For instance there have been many posts during which I thought myself to be rational, yet in retrospect, I wasn't. BUT, I can recognize when I am being rational and it is marginalized. Nobody thinks they are irrational most of the times they are. But that doesn't mean it's impossible to recognize.
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| | Friendship is like peeing yourself. Anyone can see it, but only you get that warm feeling. |
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Liquid`Drone Norway. July 23 2012 22:44. Posts 19231 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 21:50 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 19:52 Kazius wrote: Ever feel like you get marginalized on your opinions despite being perfectly rational and thought out on internet forums? Reddit? Twitter? Wikipedia?
when does somebody think they being irrational
in the heat of the moment almost never. but in retrospect, quite frequently. |
| | LOLLLL I LAUGH'D SO HARD AT UR 60 IQ COMMENT PLEASE KILL URSELF STONE AGE NOOB. |
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| ImFromPortugal Portugal. July 23 2012 22:54. Posts 717 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 20:36 sekritzzz wrote:I don't think many people realize that there is actually paid intelligence units/soldiers who have a job doing this type of bullshit all day. An example is Israel's IDF internet unit which is hired within their media department (*hint hint*). Show nested quote +The new unit, as well as an initiative by the Information and Diaspora Ministry to train people to represent Israel independently on the Internet and in other arenas
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/new-idf-unit-to-fight-enemies-on-facebook-twitter-1.3088That's one of the reasons I don't join any israeli-related forum discussions much (on TL or other sites). Maybe people do get heated but i've noticed an obvious trend of random people whom i've never seen or heard of before suddenly posting 34/35 of their total posts in that thread generally driving that thread to the ground. People could be sincere but I dont want to waste my time with possible futile discussions.
also this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool |
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| MannerMan July 23 2012 22:55. Posts 355 | Profile Blog # |
Slashdot editor here. This person is either wildly ignorant, a bit bonkers, trolling for pageviews, or all of the above. Is something being censored on Slashdot? Well... yes and no.
The answer is no because we don't delete submissions that aren't run on the front page. They're all still accessible to the public, just not easily visible. For example, here are some submissions on this very subject: example1 example2 example3 This person claims to have submitted something a few days ago; I did a quick search and didn't see anything. If he wants to provide more details, I can look further, but I rather suspect he didn't submit anything in the first place, and just wanted to stir up a small controversy.
The answer is yes, in a way, because we choose which stories appear on the front page, and which do not. We get hundreds of submissions a day, and we post the 20-30 we think are the best. If it makes you happy, you can say we "censor" the other N-30. But then, that's kind of our thing -- the whole purpose of Slashdot is to distill the news down to the 20-30 most interesting/relevant stories to our community, so they don't have to wade through all the rest of it. Most people are just fine with their submission not making the cut, for whatever reason. (One of our best submitters has had over a thousand submissions rejected over the years.) Occasionally, somebody takes it really, really personally, and calls us names.
In addition, the author seems to be under the impression that Slashdot editors are a vaguely defined, nebulous group of semi-anonymous internet-goers. In fact, there are only four of us, we've all been doing it for years, and we're in daily contact with each other. (Also, we're employees of a publicly-traded company.) Three of us all happened to be online at this late hour (locally) to hear about this nuttery, and we're all scratching our heads at how somebody could arrive at such a conclusion.
Anyway, feel free to submit this link to Slashdot if you'd like. Or make a journal entry about it. Or a comment. Or whatever. We're not going to run it on the front page, and you may or may not get modded down by other users for being offtopic, but it's not going to get deleted.
Edit: I just realized he included his Slashdot username in his post, and as you can see from his Slashdot user page his two submissions from July 18th are still quite visible. here and here
Lots of "here"s do not work, read from original link if you want to see them.
http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/wzmdu/censored_slashdot_post_describes_in_explicit/c5hzate
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| garbanzo United States. July 23 2012 23:02. Posts 2941 | Profile # |
On July 23 2012 20:27 Probe1 wrote:rofl. Reddit is exactly like 4chan. Both think that they're incredibly important and believe in stupid conspiracies that affirm their importance.
I don't really know why it's necessary to make this comment. That may or may not be true, but the guy did present some facts (as far as I know, didn't really check it over) that are at least suspicious. What they decide to believe from that fact is a different story, but it doesn't seem like there's a whole scale belief towards conspiracy. |
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| mikedebo Canada. July 23 2012 23:09. Posts 2933 | Profile # |
This is cool stuff, thanks for sharing. It's interesting how many different "soft" techniques can be used for redirecting and censoring content on the WWW and beyond. I anticipate a William Gibson book soon in which one of the characters visits one of these forum-grooming organizations  |
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