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 PrimarycOre July 24 2012 03:41. Posts 39 | Profile # |
Hey guys, this is my first guide, so bear with me.
Lately, I have been noticing a lot of zergs are getting greedy, and well, ladder is flooded with them (hehe). I adapted a playstyle that is what I would call a mix of MMA/Bomber.
About me: Been playing SC2 since beta, and broodwar for about 4-5 years. Been through all leagues, and i constantly am hopping between leagues due to my goofing off on ladder and experimenting with new builds (thanks blizz for the awesome community based b.net, or should i say lack there of.)
This build/strat summarized: open 1 rax FE, into 4 rax, 1 refinery. combat shields first. constant scouting is a must, constant marine production, and scv production, only 1 refinery at start. Attack/deny any greedy third which MOST zergs take. Takes advantage of the recent 15 hatch/15 pool trend.
The build:
open depot 10
rax 12
orbital 15
CC 15
then make marine, scv, finish wall with 2nd depot.
the scv making the 2nd depot will make bunker once done.
drop 2 more rax by 22 food
4th rax after that, and refi between 3rd and 4th rax.
on 2nd rax add TL once u have the resources, by the time it finishes, u should have 94-98 minerals, begin combat shields.
Build E-Bay after u start CS, and begin +1, if timed right, when ebay finishes u will have 100-110 gas
Combat shields should be completed by 7:15 latest.
Remember non stop scv production
Your scout is KEY during this play, keep him alive, and if possible, hide him by the zerg's third, and keep him hotkeyed, if you see the zerg drops an early third (usual timing for zerg is around the 6 minute mark), send 4-5 marines to watch tower, and the rest will follow.
This will most likely let zerg think you are simply trying to hold the tower, and he will not waste 6 lings to try to kill 4 marines.
If the third was taken, by the 7 mark u should have 14-16 marines, with combat shields, send em to attack the third
if the third was not taken, send em to control creep and push the front forcing zerg to reduce droning and create lings.
Now there are some zergs who are too cocky with the new queen buff and do the 4 queen opening, the 14-16 rines with shields will easily push them back, and also force earlier banelings, delaying his tech and gas production, if u see banelings, make sure your splitting and micro is on point, practice if needed,
TRANSITIONS: once i deny his third, or apply pressure, i throw my third down (around 9-10 min mark) and from there more rax. Please keep in mind that while applying pressure, you need to be building up your tech
Tech: Fact w/ reactor and starport, swap, add TL to factory.
Reactors on the 3 rax u originally built, while dropping a few more if necessary...
I prefer to go into a very bio heavy play, with minimal tanks, if any at all. The most I will make is 3-4. If caught unsieged, damage is hard to recover.
Push #2 = PRESSURE
Once u have delayed his tech and econ, by the 10 Minute mark, u should have stim already 2 medivacs, with +1 done and the other ups going. Take 2 medivacs, send 1 to his third, and 1 to his main, drop 1 and the 2nd 10 seconds after to give him time to react. Due to his delayed tech, he will have lings and send em, once the lings get to ur first drop, pick up and leave, and come back once safe and drop again. Same applies for the 2nd drop.
Keep these dropships alive as long as possible. They keep him busy and keep his attention on his own base, or else he loses his economy.
This will buy you time to surpass him in scv to drone count, and get ready for your third push (around 15-18 min)
If you went bio heavy, make sure to build at least 7-10 marauders with conc shells and keep marines behind them, you need at least 6 medivacs when going vs infestor play.
Attack slowly, receeding creep, while doing little harassment drops
pre-spread your marines, and the rauders will conc shell the banelings and allow easy kills, if marines are spread good, fungal wont be much of a problem, take your fourth while attacking (15-17 min)
LATE GAME transition: If he is going ultras:
double marauder production, and make 2-3 thors, ghosts are always great
Vs Broods:
Throw down 2nd starport on a reactor, viking/medivac, and ghost vs his infestors.
From my experience, I dont need ghosts until late game, good splits and sufficient medivac numbers will deal with infestors just fine
LAST BUT NOT LEAST: as i said in the beginning, scouting is key with this build, and drop harass as well, scout for hidden expos, make 1 viking if needed to fly around the map, and take out his overlord scouts.
Good luck, and have fun!
PrimarycOre
Edit: This build is intended for players with extensive micro/macro experience and good unit control.
EDIT 2: Had a few requests to see how the 7:XX min attack works, so heres a replay, its the strat described above with a few mistakes ^^, and towards the late game, i didnt feel the need to start T3, so i just kept up pressure with all bio. Im currently trying new things. But this will give u a good idea of the start of the strat.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-267918.jpg)
EDIT 3: This is a good example of the strat, executed rather well, won't say perfect, but good enough for people to understand how the strat works:
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-267923.jpg) Last edit: 2012-07-24 06:57:14 |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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| daralharb United States. July 24 2012 03:45. Posts 49 | Profile # |
| Pretty interesting, could you post some replays of your play with this? |
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| PrimarycOre July 24 2012 04:02. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| ill post up some replays in a bit, i never save mine, so i'll have to either sort through the unsaved, or just play another game. |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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| ProfSc United States. July 24 2012 04:09. Posts 51 | Profile # |
It seems like a much more refined version of this build, though it's interesting you apply aggression before medivacs. I too, would like to see some replays.
Since you're being aggressive at the watchtowers with your marines at 7 minutes, how does the build handle the 8 minute roach/ling/bling all-in? |
| | "War is a matter of vital importance to the state." |
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| PrimarycOre July 24 2012 04:16. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| vs the bling/roach all in, its a matter of scouting, i've lost to it due to bad scouting before as well, eventually, i can just tell by the amount of units he has, and drones. If i feel it is coming, ill build my 3rd cc at my nat wall, and/or +2 rax, with repair, u can hold it |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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 MstrJinbo United States. July 24 2012 04:37. Posts 780 | Profile # |
Your scout is KEY during this play, keep him alive, and if possible, hide him by the zerg's third, and keep him hotkeyed, if you see the zerg drops an early third (usual timing for zerg is around the 6 minute mark), send 4-5 marines to watch tower, and the rest will follow.
If you are a Zerg and see 5 marines seizing a tower, it's not a huge leap to assume Terran is not going fast 3rd CC and could attack soon. |
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| Blazinghand United States. July 24 2012 04:41. Posts 12272 | Profile Blog # |
| I like the idea of a combat shield marine push. I think I'd like to see this in action, though-- could you upload a replay of you using this? |
| | When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back. |
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| Sianos July 24 2012 04:46. Posts 528 | Profile # |
Funny that´s exactly the play i started to do even before the last patch, because the hellion micro pissed me off. 16 combat shields marines are really good vs fast 3rd play. The difference with my build is imo i just do the standard 3 rax into 2 gas into cobat shield, but the scouting an execution is the same.
However you really have to scout for his gas timing. With banelings or roaches he can easily kill your push, but the achievement here is to delay his tech. A big problem to this build are baneling or roach/baneling busts. To defend aggainst those you need to wallin your natrual with your raxes and place a bunker at your cc. When you do this your opponent will waste his banelings on the rax and/or the depots and will then not have much banelings left to kill your bunker. Also make sure to prespread your marines a bit.
Aggainst "safe" fast 3rd builds where they defend themselfs with banelings or roaches i found out that a marine-marrauder-hellion-medivac attack does incredible damage. Because of this i allways do that push arround 10 minutes when i scout my opponent going gas. Just build your factory after you started combat shield and make marrauders instead marines out of your rax with tl and start a starport as soon as factory finishes for medivacs. Use your naked factory to build hellions and build 2 medivac from your starport when you push out. (This works only with my 3 rax into 2 gas variant). While pushing have your marrauders in the front, marines in the back and prepare your hellions to flank your opponents units. I killed his 3rd with this type of push 90% of the time. After that i do the typical marine-tank-medivac transition.
This build gives me a 77% winrate in TvZ this season(22 matches total) only aggainst high diamond and master zergs.
Just do it and have fun with easy wins. |
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| 4tre55 Germany. July 24 2012 04:53. Posts 172 | Profile # |
Theres a pretty similar build Boxer was doing in MLG at least a year ago against nestea in both their games.
He started with maka Rax into 1 Rax FE, waling with 3 Rax adding Tech Lab and 2 Reactos (i think) and then pushing with CS. It was one of those MLGs they still put up the replays if anyone wants to check it out. |
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| PrimarycOre July 24 2012 04:57. Posts 39 | Profile # |
@Sainos, yea there are diff variations of the build, but most of the time, pretty easy to do early damage, and at the very least, drastically delay tech.
@Blazinghand, i will post replays as soon as I can, im currently doing my ladder sessions, once im done, ill pack a lil pack and upload it somewhere. |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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| PrimarycOre July 24 2012 05:14. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| I just put up a temporary replay. Will replace with a better one later. |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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| HelloSon United States. July 24 2012 06:02. Posts 387 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 04:37 MstrJinbo wrote:
Show nested quote +Your scout is KEY during this play, keep him alive, and if possible, hide him by the zerg's third, and keep him hotkeyed, if you see the zerg drops an early third (usual timing for zerg is around the 6 minute mark), send 4-5 marines to watch tower, and the rest will follow.
If you are a Zerg and see 5 marines seizing a tower, it's not a huge leap to assume Terran is not going fast 3rd CC and could attack soon.
Yeah, plus you can't even get full map control since you don't have hellions to deny his slow lings.
Seems like this build punishes a zerg who overdrones rather than a zerg who gets a fast third.Last edit: 2012-07-24 06:04:11 |
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| PrimarycOre July 24 2012 06:57. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| New replay posted, under edit 3, good example there |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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| yoona2012 Denmark. July 24 2012 07:58. Posts 196 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 03:41 PrimarycOre wrote:
This build/strat summarized: open 1 rax FE, into 4 rax, 1 refinery. combat shields first. constant scouting is a must, constant marine production, and scv production, only 1 refinery at start.....
The build:
open depot 10
rax 12
orbital 15
CC 15
then make marine, scv, finish wall with 2nd depot.
the scv making the 2nd depot will make bunker once done.
drop 2 more rax by 22 food
4th rax after that, and refi between 3rd and 4th rax.
on 2nd rax add TL once u have the resources, by the time it finishes, u should have 94-98 minerals, begin combat shields.
Build E-Bay after u start CS, and begin +1, if timed right, when ebay finishes u will have 100-110 gas
Combat shields should be completed by 7:15 latest.....
Tech: Fact w/ reactor and starport, swap, add TL to factory.
Reactors on the 3 rax u originally built, while dropping a few more if necessary.....
Push #2 = PRESSURE
Once u have delayed his tech and econ, by the 10 Minute mark, u should have stim already 2 medivacs, with +1 done and the other ups going.
I thought it was a decent read but then i stumbled upon some contradiction and must admit i stopped reading your guide all together. Your build isn´t possible - not even close. I bolded the parts and I made "....." when the qoute skips a part.
Now it´s all good to do combat shields off 1 gas, and sure you can get +1 attack as well. However then you aim for factory, starport (reactor), stim and 3 reactors. Ok sure somewhere you must have forgotten to mention the 2nd gas - but i am fairly experienced with 1 rax expands, and I know you cant afford 2nd gas that early with constant marine (x4), scv (x2), depot production on top of upgrading both cs, stim, +1 attack, fac, starport, reactors and 2 medivacs done at 10.00 with other "ups" on the way. It´s not possible.
If you had said 3 raxes, then it could be doable to get +1, stim, 2 medivacs and 24-30ish marines with close to perfect macro and no scans used. However the 4th rax with constant marine production delays your 2nd gas too long for you to have enough gas or minerals to get all the upgrades, addons, tech and 3rd expansion which you try to guide us to.
If you disagree, you may post a replay of you doing your build and hitting those timings as you mentioned. You can use an very easy ai on slowest speed settings as a proof if you like to get perfect uninterrupted macro.
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
To make it simple. You say that combat shields should finish at 7.15 and at the same time you´ll have 100-110 gas to start +1 attack upgrade. So in other words, you have 10 gas at 7.15 - and you have 2 minutes and 45 seconds to make:
-Factory
-Starport
-2 medivacs
-Stim
-4 reactors
-other "ups"
-3rd command center
I hope you begin to understand the dillemma.Last edit: 2012-07-24 08:03:08 |
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| PrimarycOre July 24 2012 08:04. Posts 39 | Profile # |
all timings may not be 100% perfect, but are pretty close, replays are posted, 2nd one is better
as to affording things, i didnt list exact times, it depends on how ur scv and marine production is afterwards
also, as for the gas not being affordable dilemma, i do add more refi's i just didnt type it into the guide as i figured people would be able to add them on without my stating exact moments.
as for the 10 min 2nd attack, my attacks vary between 10:XX to latest 11:20, depending on how the game plays out, its IMPOSSIBLE to list perfect timings, as each game is unique in its own.Last edit: 2012-07-24 08:04:58 |
| | I raged so hard, I went super saiyan!! |
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| yoona2012 Denmark. July 24 2012 08:09. Posts 196 | Profile # |
On July 24 2012 08:04 PrimarycOre wrote:
all timings may not be 100% perfect, but are pretty close, replays are posted, 2nd one is better
as to affording things, i didnt list exact times, it depends on how ur scv and marine production is afterwards
also, as for the gas not being affordable dilemma, i do add more refi's i just didnt type it into the guide as i figured people would be able to add them on without my stating exact moments.
as for the 10 min 2nd attack, my attacks vary between 10:XX to latest 11:20, depending on how the game plays out, its IMPOSSIBLE to list perfect timings, as each game is unique in its own.
As a guide, it should list optimal timings. However your timings are not possible - not even close to. Like I challenged you, if you still believe that your build is doable within a small margin of error, then proove it - you may use very easy ai on slowest speed settings to archieve perfect macro timings. However, I will say from experience, that is isn´t possible. With 1 rax expand into 4 rax, 1 gas gearing straight for combat shields ebay and +1, you´ll cannot afford the 2nd gas early enough to get the rest of your 10.00 minute aim.
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤EDIT¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
watched the first part of your 2nd replay as you suggested me to.
Like I mentioned above, 3 rax into double gas would be more doable than your 3 rax 1 gas into 4th rax - and thats excactly what you did in the 2nd game. However your marine production was not continuos and your natural expand finished without you being able to afford to upgrade it to orbital instantly, which strongly suggest that you should stay on 3 rax for a bit longer till your economy allowed you to actually produce out of a 4th rax.
Even tho you emphasize your 2nd replay as a "better game" your drops weren´t even close to 10.00 - tho i will credit for the stim and medivac timing to finish up at same time.
As a sidenote you never scouted the zerg gas, pool timing, drone count or even his techpath, making a banebust pretty much autolose for you if it had happened. I am guessing you´re gold or platinum ranked from your play, apm and opponent play - this type of no-scouting does not work on higher level play and i was very dissapointed when your zerg opponent didnt react to you killing his third or moving out with that many marines without either a counter runby (your natural was complety naked at the time) or defending his 3rd.
Bottomline is that you did not follow your own guide in the 2nd game, and even though you had enough gas (because you took double gas after 3rd rax) your medivac drops much was later than your guide suggested.Last edit: 2012-07-24 08:33:28 |
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