• Log In
  • Register
  • Settings
TeamLiquid TeamLiquidPro Liquipedia TSL4 LiquidPoker
EDT 20:41
CEST 02:41
KST 09:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • WCS
  • StarCraft 2
  • Dota 2
  • Brood War
  • WCS Portal
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • Events
  • BarCraft
  • StarCraft 2
  • Dota 2
  • Brood War
  • League of Legends
  • Blogs
Featured News
Auction OSL - Day 1 Recap …
Auction OSL: Ro32 - Openin…
DH Summer Day 2 Photos
DH Summer SC2 Interviews
DH Summer Dota Interviews
Community News
WCS AM Season 2 to be run …
Confirmed Players at the M…
Defiler Tours #60, 61, 62 …
Alliance Wins DreamHack Su…
Major leaving Team 8
Valve confirms release thi…
MLG Spring Championship ma…
C Liquid Team News
Zenio: Razer Replaypack of …
EG-TL vs Team Eight in Roun…
Dreamhack Summer Day 3: Sc2!
Fluff's Photoblog from Drea…
Dreamhack Summer Day 2: Sc2…
Sponsored Threads
Gamers Wanted as Volunteer…
Simplifi is hiring - work …
TL Advertising Features
C General
The Big Programming Thread
Korean Music Discussion
Hip Hop / Rap Music Disc…
Protests in Turkey attac…
[Req][Books] Good Fantas…
C TL Community
Happy birthday salle!
TL Site Changes
Long Island BarCraft - MLG…
San Diego Area SC 2 Players
TL.net Ten Commandments
C Fan Clubs
The TotalBiscuit Fanclub
The IdrA Fanclub
C User Streams
Mecto's stream~~
[Stream] LifeStyle NA Prot…
C Tech Support
Computer Build Resource Th…
Flash player lag
Can't connect to wired int…
Windows 7 is black and white
Mechanical Keyboard Guide
C SC2 General
WCS Points System… Point…
So about the WC3 players
[BarCraft] Has been remo…
Would somone explain Gom…
[Q] How to keep up with …
WCS AM Season 2 to be ru…
C SC2 Tourneys
[WCS AM] Group F Challenge…
[OSL] Ro32 Groups A&B 2013…
[WCS AM] Group H Challenge…
£400 SC2Improve Summer Lea…
SEANA Trials NA Qualifier …
C SC2 Strategy
[G] TheCore - Advanced Key…
The HotS Terran Help Me Th…
[H] Forgetfulness
[Q] PvP: Defending vs Prox…
[H] Diamond Protoss trying…
C Custom Maps
[MOD] HotS Build Order Tes…
ZvT midgame micro trainer.
[UMS] Snipers Promod
[P] Semmo's Map Thread
[M] (2) Agria Homestead
C Dota 2 General
General Discussion
Chinese Gov't to sponsor…
Dota 2 QQ thread
Dota 2 In Montreal
Valve confirms release t…
Dreamhack Summer 2013 Fe…
C Dota 2 Tourneys
[DreamHack] ASUS ROG Tourn…
Alienware Cup
Sticky Flames Weekly Dota …
Perfect World's Dota 2 Su…
RedBull ECL2013
C Dota 2 Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple A…
Lone Druid Item Build 6.78
Learning Weaver?
On the stomping of pubs
Does Visage deserve to be …
C BW General
No LAN ? O_o
[show] Starcraft Presents
[Map](4)I Dont Care
[Q] Mong's Music
[D] New BW Server
New Launcher for ICC and…
C BW Tourneys
[DRTL] All-Star Game
[CRTL] Finals: C Entus vs …
C Ranks Teamleague Season 1
China vs Korea: Movie vs F…
Defiler Tours #60, 61, 62 …
C BW Strategy
DragOn's BW strategy reboot
Simple Questions, Simple A…
Practice Partner Thread
Tutorial videos for beginn…
C Sports & Games
MechWarrior Online (New)
Civilization V + DLC's, …
2013 NBA Finals
2012 - 2013 Football Thr…
Steam Sales Thread
C League of Legends
[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch]…
[NA LCS Summer] Week 1 Wri…
The Shikyo Memorial for QQ…
C LoL Tourneys
[NA LCS] Summer Week 2
[AMD-INVEN]GamExperience
[D] Pro Scene Evolution
C LoL Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple A…
[Champion] Jarman the Four…
[Resource] Champion Tips &…
C Diablo 3
The: What is my item worth?
Diablo III's New Game Dire…
D3 Hardcore Community
C TL Mafia
Roulette Mini Mafia
PTP IV - Demon's Run
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII
C Health & Fitness
The 2013 Weightlifting Pro…
Running Thread
TL Health and Fitness Init…
C Featured Blogs
E3 2013
kierpanda
Sketch: Tap Out To…
Raihn
Liquid at D…
Liquid`FLUFF
Keys Talk Radi…
pubbanana
Artist, Couns…
Manifesto7
C Blogs
LoL MMR co…
EtherealDeath
Emotions and Pr…
husniack
Summer books to r…
Speake
MLG Spri…
TylerThaCreator
Back on track.
Jan1997
League of Legen…
Zyori.tv
Steel Yoursel…
AsmodeusXI
Duckville's…
Duckvillelol
Leta - Movie
Michael - skyline
Anytime - Beast
By.Hero - Shuttle
Anytime - Pusan
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads


IRC Web Chat

TeamSpeak 3 (42 users)


Active: 6198 users
TL will be down for server maintenance at 10pm EDT for approximately 30 minutes.

[H] TvP Need help vs turtle tossiness

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
 
 Beezleking   Canada. July 24 2012 12:23. Posts 53
Profile # 
The replay

Clearly I have no idea what I am doing because I didn't gg... And was kind of a dick. I feel awful about it but there is nothing I can do now.

I feel like I should be more aggressive but I have no idea how when he goes that stalker heavy and then turtles that hard. I tried to expand a ton and build a ton of rax but even then toss just destroys me. If I tried dropping he was set up to stop it. What do I doooo?

Edit: My micro sucks. Maybe that's it too.
Last edit: 2012-07-24 12:30:50
Old Post

 
 Beelzebro   United Kingdom. July 25 2012 02:38. Posts 25
Profile # 
can't watch replay on this PC, so the following advice will be general, apologies if it doesnt apply to this specific game

against a turtling toss, you need to keep your army in their face and prevent them from getting a 3rd base, while taking your own, thereby giving you the economy advantage. you'll want to drop them too, though obviously as in this game, if they are on their toes you might not be able to achieve much.

the key vs a turtler of any race is always to out expand them and try and keep them contained on a low base count.

TvP is an extremely micro intensive matchup for T so that also doesn't help unfortunately. the single most important thing is to make sure you neutralise the HT with EMPs, everything else is of secondary importance (i'm sure you already know this)

User was warned for this post
"as full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and, a million light reflections... pass over me"
Old Post

 
 tehemperorer   United States. July 25 2012 03:32. Posts 2180
Profile Blog # 
Notes:
-You canceled the engi bay too early! Let him hit on it for a while until its down to no life then cancel!
-There's no need to send your army to check for a third that early. At around 7 minutes put an scv behind the minerals at Ps third and then you don't have to waste time with your army checking there. Instead of hitting at 8:25 when he had 1 zeal, 1 stalker, 1 sentry, and 1 immortal vs your 9marines 1 marauder, you hit at 9:00 with 9marines 1 marauder vs 7 zeals, 2 sentries, 1 stalker, 1 immortal. That 30 seconds really mattered.
-You went up the ramp while looking in your base, and your troops engaged while you were looking at your base... He pulled back but that could have been real bad.
-Your engagement with the medivacs should have been way more cautious since you know he saw you coming with his obs and logically brought stalkers to fend off drop. Your insistence on fighting made you trade very poorly which meant he will start to snowball, and also you had raxes unhotkeyed and were only making a few units while the fighting went on, no scvs though you had the supply available.
-Reactored Vikings at 12:30 was a guess! You were wrong, no colossus! Those should have been medivacs!
-You have the money, make medivacs! 13:30
-Control your units, 14:30 donated a medivac with a marine in it to 2 stalkers.
-Your infrastructure wasn't matching your economy, still had 5raxes 2 ports at 15:17 but you had 3 bases. Make it at least 8 and a lot earlier.
-Gas your third way earlier, thirds are generally most useful in getting more gas, not minerals, I think for all races.
-Ghosts! You guessed! You were wrong again!
-Take your 4th earlier you have no reason on 3000+ minerals not to build a cc
-Something should have happened way before 28 minutes when you donated a fair amount of units to him
-You got cute, tried to nuke him, and ended up only killing two of your own ghosts while he massacred your army that was overstimmed when he chased you... You also remaxed on marines... Which die to everything he has (storm, colossus).
-Control, use your PDD!
-Haha don't hate toss, in every loss you have since you started playing it has been the decisions you have made that lead to losses; be mannered and respect the other player. It is the same for everyone else

Overall you wanted avoid direct confrontations and do cute stuff like use nukes and building sensor towers in his base when direct confrontations at the right times would have won you the game. You missed a few important timings that would have given you the advantage. Good luck!
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Old Post

 
 Beezleking   Canada. July 25 2012 13:13. Posts 53
Profile # 
I love you. For the record I don't actually hate toss. Just toss that I don't know to play against. The sensor tower in his base was just out of boredom because I had no idea what to do or how to engage that army. Did I need more tech labs on my rax? I feel like marines are better against the gateway tier so I was hoping to just get rid of any his gas heavy units and then let them 1a the rest.

PS. Could you recommend any replays of a toss doing this style?


+ Show Spoiler +
On July 25 2012 03:32 tehemperorer wrote:
Notes:
-You canceled the engi bay too early! Let him hit on it for a while until its down to no life then cancel!
-There's no need to send your army to check for a third that early. At around 7 minutes put an scv behind the minerals at Ps third and then you don't have to waste time with your army checking there. Instead of hitting at 8:25 when he had 1 zeal, 1 stalker, 1 sentry, and 1 immortal vs your 9marines 1 marauder, you hit at 9:00 with 9marines 1 marauder vs 7 zeals, 2 sentries, 1 stalker, 1 immortal. That 30 seconds really mattered.
-You went up the ramp while looking in your base, and your troops engaged while you were looking at your base... He pulled back but that could have been real bad.
-Your engagement with the medivacs should have been way more cautious since you know he saw you coming with his obs and logically brought stalkers to fend off drop. Your insistence on fighting made you trade very poorly which meant he will start to snowball, and also you had raxes unhotkeyed and were only making a few units while the fighting went on, no scvs though you had the supply available.
-Reactored Vikings at 12:30 was a guess! You were wrong, no colossus! Those should have been medivacs!
-You have the money, make medivacs! 13:30
-Control your units, 14:30 donated a medivac with a marine in it to 2 stalkers.
-Your infrastructure wasn't matching your economy, still had 5raxes 2 ports at 15:17 but you had 3 bases. Make it at least 8 and a lot earlier.
-Gas your third way earlier, thirds are generally most useful in getting more gas, not minerals, I think for all races.
-Ghosts! You guessed! You were wrong again!
-Take your 4th earlier you have no reason on 3000+ minerals not to build a cc
-Something should have happened way before 28 minutes when you donated a fair amount of units to him
-You got cute, tried to nuke him, and ended up only killing two of your own ghosts while he massacred your army that was overstimmed when he chased you... You also remaxed on marines... Which die to everything he has (storm, colossus).
-Control, use your PDD!
-Haha don't hate toss, in every loss you have since you started playing it has been the decisions you have made that lead to losses; be mannered and respect the other player. It is the same for everyone else

Overall you wanted avoid direct confrontations and do cute stuff like use nukes and building sensor towers in his base when direct confrontations at the right times would have won you the game. You missed a few important timings that would have given you the advantage. Good luck
!

Last edit: 2012-07-25 13:19:38
Old Post

Please log in or register to reply.
 
Refresh
 Calendar - June 
We Th Fr Sa Su Mo Tu
19202122232425
FEATURED ON AIR:
Wiki
[WCS AM] Group F CL
Stream: WCS_America
ON AIR:
→
SC Presents: The OSL
Stream: BisuDagger
→
LO3 E162
Stream: OneMoreGame
→
Canada Cup Playoffs…
Stream: nyjohntv
Upcoming events:  [ More ]
19m[URTL] oG vs Ks
19mSc2Up&Coming Dream…
1h 19mRules of Engagement
14h 19mRitmix RSL V
15h 19mESET Masters'13 RQ#8
16h 19mSC2I Summer League…
21h 19m[WCS AM] Group G CL
22h 19m[URTL] PrOp vs Gl…
22h 19mLO3 - E163
1d[URTL] iMp vs oSp…
1d 1hRules of Engagement
1d 2hMeta: Episode #9
1d 8h[OSL] RO32 Group C&D
1d 10hHSC VII Day 1
1d 16hAdroits #RC #3
1d 16hGo4SC2 #293
1d 16hGo4SC2 #293
1d 21h[WCS AM] Group E CL
1d 22h[URTL] Denial vs…
2 days[URTL] FXO.NA vs Op
2 daysRules of Engagement
2 days[GSTL] Ax-Acer vs.…
2 daysHSC VII Day 2
2 daysXilence Cup 8
2 days[WCS AM] Group D
3 daysVengeance Cup Qual…
3 days[GSTL] AZUBU vs. FXO
3 daysMST#07
3 daysWyN Master CUP
3 daysHSC VII Day 3
3 daysAdroits RC #4
3 daysDenver June HOTS T…
3 daysSSRO #3
4 days[AlienwareCup]Grou…
4 days[BW] Defiler Tour…
4 daysHSC VII Day 4
4 daysGo4SC2 Sun €150
5 days[AlienwareCup]Grou…
6 days[OSL] RO32 Group E&F
6 days[AlienwareCup]Grou…
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
snipealot2
StarCraft 2
IdrA
QuanticApocalypse
QuanticHwangSin
SarenS
Dota 2
Arteezy
plzgogame
EternaLEnVy
Other Notable Streams
Destiny
Draskyl
PainUser
-orb-
[ Show 100 non-featured ]
StarCraft: Brood War
• romarior
• i am plus
StarCraft 2
• Anoss
• Pro7ecT
• avilo
• Tyraxus
• AltWinter
• MarthVader
• 2vs2AiLillekanin
• Chicks
• .kv
• .FlatLine
• SoOJuuu
• DakkoN
• musti20045
• FXOkaRmy
• cheeseheadlogic
• Darkness2k11
• xOGenesis
• CarnageSC2
• BsCRevi
• Machnificent
• Jowj
• InSpiReZerG
• 0Toph
• Dzerzhinsky
• Bohnzerger
• TheBatman
• FT.aCt)Sony
• taktic
• HylianSavior
• StanzA
• zDreaM
• Bonkarooni
• ProCheeto
• RuFF_SC2
• Aberu
• nusTella
• DarkerThanKuro
• Zergberg
• yeohong
• Runer2k4
• PanN
• JuggernautJason
• enecateReAP
• Cadence427
• Foogazi
• DexLy
• InfMorse
• PvP
• SCGStratocaster
• WonderSC2
• NOMiracle
• adrenalyne
Dota 2
• Figueiredo
• FroggedTV
• SuperJoe
• t40r
• TsunamiNori
• phone_microwave
• Cranium
• --derp--
• D4RKCIDE
• Comogury
• InfectedGoat
• dotbeef
• MrHankey
• EsTra
• Kamatari
League of Legends
• Mrs Sole Angel
• falconfan02
• -dcLookAtThis-
• AhDee
• nosinned
• Fusionbomb
• vTnTemujin
• B-Wong
• wysley
• Mezxxii
• wgrates
• CloudCarry
• Semifinalist
• Psyal
Other Games
• SK.Testie
• Trump
• F1Re__
• ArtemisKnives
• sinvicta
• rizeupgaming
• NopeVidya
• Allbeert
• BhT-
• Pittski
• Yoshi Kirishima
• Warnipple
• RenJ-69
• Crusaders TV
• maRkySC2
• hugar
• Shizzler

» Recent SC2 Results
» Premier SC2 Tournaments

1. Sen
2. Stephano
3. Socke
4. mOOnGLaDe
5. Nerchio
1. Life
2. Curious
3. RorO
4. Symbol
5. PartinG
Sidebar Settings...

The Little App Factory



The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.

Advertising | Jobs | Privacy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren. Ad tag: TF_US.
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2002-2013 Teamliquid.net. All Rights Reserved