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| TangSC Canada. July 25 2012 04:23. Posts 1652 | Profile Blog # |
What Makes Stephano the God of "Foreign" Zerg?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2k5qe.jpg)
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen!
I had the pleasure of attending the NASL Season 3 Grand Finals in Toronto (my first visit to a major SC2 tournament!) and I got to witness Stephano leave a trail of dismembered Protoss units in his wake. Stephano didn't win the NASL, he owned it. After the 4-1 victory against MC and the 4-0 victory against Alicia, my Protoss friend Kyle turned to me and asked:
"Why is Stephano so good?"
+ Show Spoiler +"Because he makes roaches and lings," I said, grinning and perfectly content with the accuracy of my answer.
"No really, I mean any Zerg can make roaches." Kyle said. "Why does Stephano win all these tournaments?" Apparently he wanted a more detailed response out of me.
"Well...he gets more units earlier...his timings are..." I began.
"Everyone knows the timings," Kyle interrupted, "fast third, 6min gas, 7min warren/evo." He was right. The timings aren't what makes Stephano so unstoppable.
"It's also scouting. He knows his opponents' timings, what to look for, and how to respond to what he sees." A fair point, I thought, but not enough convincing for Kyle.
"Overlords are pretty fast, any Diamond-Master players can scout this information." Damnit, he was right again. I opened my mouth to make another point, when I realized something - I don't really know if there is one thing what makes Stephano so damn good. I paused for a moment to make as strong an argument as I could, one that would silence Kyle's objections and allow me to watch the victory celebration dance party in peace:
"He just knows his shit, man"
And indeed, he does. On the most basic level, he's fully aware of his and his opponents' timings, but more importantly, his game sense and knowledge are on a whole other playing field. There's games where Stephano is pushing out his roach/ling army against a Protoss who has walled in his third with Sentries/Immortals, and I'm thinking to myself "there's no way he can break this." But he does. With some form of sick multi-pronged attack, Stephano manages to overwhelm the Protoss and take out his third (while somehow slipping lings into his main).
Then another game, Protoss is making a huge push with Sentry/Immortal/Stalker/Colossus. Stephano's sitting back with Infestor/Corruptor/Roach/Ling and a greater spire that just started. I'm thinking "You can't engage that without broodlords...it's over, there's no way Stephano can hold off this 3-base Protoss timing." But, again, he does! He splits up his lings/roaches for a flank, lays down some infested terran, focuses down the colossus with the corruptors, and next thing you know he's maxed out with broods, planting a manner hatch at the Protoss third.
In other words, there isn't one thing that makes Stephano the best foreign Zerg player in the world. It's a combination of extensive game knowledge, precision in timings and mechanics, and perhaps a few "X Factors." My goal in sparking this discussion is to point out these X Factors, and see if we lesser Zergs can benefit from some extensive analysis of this talented French Zerg player.
So, my goal with this thread (with your help) is to break down Stephano's play as much as possible. I want this thread to serve as a resource to find content on how to emulate (or try to emulate) his play style. I started by downloading Stephano's most recent replay pack and streaming analysis of as many of the games as I could, and I will continue doing so as long as I have replays. To help me build this analysis and discussion, I ask that you all:
1) Comment and provide any insights you might have into how Stephano has achieved his success, and what specifically makes him so good.
2) Submit replays to be analysed/casted. They don't have to be from the finals of NASL (though I would like those replays!), they can be from smaller tournaments or ladder games as well.
3) Link to any written content/video content that you feel is relevant. We can compile a list of helpful casted games, stream vods, etc.
Polls:
+ Show Spoiler +Poll: Poll #1: What is the most important aspect of Stephano's play?Pay more attention to how units engage (Flanks, angles, concaves, surrounds). Cost efficiency is key (94) 67% Stephano is over-hyped, nothing special about him. Let's talk about a real GSL pro instead! (18) 13% Be confident, relaxed, focused. SC2 is as much psychological as it is mechanical. (12) 9% Know your opponents' timings. Planning your responses ahead saves time spent thinking. (7) 5% Be consistent. If you use the same build/style each game, decision-making is that much easier. (5) 4% Other (I will post a comment explaining) (3) 2% Know the many mechanics that save you time. Time is the most important resource in SC2. (2) 1% 141 total votes Your vote: Poll #1: What is the most important aspect of Stephano's play? (Vote): Pay more attention to how units engage (Flanks, angles, concaves, surrounds). Cost efficiency is key
(Vote): Be confident, relaxed, focused. SC2 is as much psychological as it is mechanical.
(Vote): Know your opponents' timings. Planning your responses ahead saves time spent thinking.
(Vote): Be consistent. If you use the same build/style each game, decision-making is that much easier.
(Vote): Know the many mechanics that save you time. Time is the most important resource in SC2.
(Vote): Stephano is over-hyped, nothing special about him. Let's talk about a real GSL pro instead!
(Vote): Other (I will post a comment explaining)
Stephano Stream/Replay Packs:
+ Show Spoiler +
Stream Analysis/Lessons of Stephano-Style:
+ Show Spoiler +
With your help, I look forward to expanding this discussion!
- TangLast edit: 2012-08-01 09:46:31 |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| BongSniper69 July 25 2012 04:29. Posts 27 | Profile # |
| good topic but I'd like to see some more technical details about his play and not this cheesy empty writing |
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| TangSC Canada. July 25 2012 04:32. Posts 1652 | Profile Blog # |
On July 25 2012 04:29 BongSniper69 wrote:
good topic but I'd like to see some more technical details about his play and not this cheesy empty writing
I'm sorry if you find the writing cheesy, I was just having fun. If you watch the seven videos I did this morning on Stephano, you'll see it's more technical  Last edit: 2012-07-25 04:50:19 |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| Wingblade United States. July 25 2012 04:33. Posts 833 | Profile # |
| I think one of the nicest things about Stephano is that he always seems relatviely laidback about the game. He says things and behaves sometimes like he just doesn't care as much, and he has made a point of lettign everyone know that pro gaming is basically a means to an end for him. The casters said at one point during MLG that he looked shaken, and then he proved them wrong and won 2 in a row to take the set. He's such a relaxed player and I don't think the pressure gets to him. So he's relaxed, calm and more focused. More of an X factor than anything else i think. |
| | "Please Protoss student, recite the alphabet." "A." PartinG and Squirtle together forever in my heart. |
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| Synk United States. July 25 2012 04:58. Posts 294 | Profile # |
I think Stephano just puts a lot more thought into each engagement than most Zergs. Maybe it's because he is more relaxed? I know personally I find it very hard to just think clearly in the middle of a game where I'm already using like 120 apm(I'm around 900-1000pt masters) just to keep my macro going. The result is a lot of just horrible engagements where I throw away huge numbers of lings for nothing, because they ran in ahead of my army and things like this. Stephano though not only never lets that happen but goes a step further and really thinks 2 steps ahead of his opponent tactically. He is constantly flanking armys, putting units where they need to be ( lings on the side of the army where no zealots are, roaches against zealots, more roaches flanking for collosi, corrupters doing the same, infesters coming in from good angle to land ideal fungals ..ect ect ).
I know watching my own replays I can find so many engagements where if I just relaxed for 5 sec and really thought about an engagement before it happened I could have won easily instead of lost, Stephano seems to have this ability naturally ( or maybe he just learned it ). I think Stephano has made it obvious though how important it is, and how much most Zerg's lack just using smart tactics in engagements.Last edit: 2012-07-25 04:58:57 |
| | Don't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
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| Mesha Bosnia-Herzegovina. July 25 2012 04:59. Posts 435 | Profile Blog # |
He is just on top of every single important aspect of starcraft. And he maintains that level of macro, micro, crysis management, x-factor, whatever in 99% of his games. That's what makes him so different, most pros shine sometimes and then they just sink, because its so tiring (more mentally than physicaly) for them to maintain so high level of starcraft. But Stephano does this so natuarally and with out any special effort.
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| | Reality hits you hard bro. |
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| TangSC Canada. July 25 2012 05:04. Posts 1652 | Profile Blog # |
| I think you three are on to something when you talk about Stephano's laidback, almost carefree nature. He's definitely able to keep his focus in those pressure-filled situations where other players would get flustered/tunnel vision. |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| ScythedBlade July 25 2012 05:05. Posts 308 | Profile # |
Most Zerg's don't play Zerg like Stephano do to get where he is now. The fact that he did Warcraft III *AND* decided to use Zerg as a race makes him ridiculous.
You see, most W3 pros end up choosing Protoss, and Protoss as a race is designed to be very position and micro based. Zerg on the other hand is designed to be good with macro. When you micro very well with good positioned Zerg armies and you already have macro down, then you come up with an almost unstoppable race.
That being said, Stephano would probably not be as successful if he were playing Protoss. When you have vastly cost(time and dps inclusive)-efficient units as Zerg and you use them right, you will win. And that's the point I've been trying to drive across by pointing out that Protoss itself includes mechanics for easily helping your units "BE *more* cost-effective", but the units not actually being cost-effective just on their own. |
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| chambertin United States. July 25 2012 05:18. Posts 1032 | Profile # |
The only thing I've noticed as being conspicuous every time I've seen him play a competitive match is his attention to getting great engagements. He just seems more pre-occupied than any other Zerg (and perhaps other players, period.) with setting up a great flank/concave/ etc. even if it takes him an extra 30 secs. He's very patient and attentive in this respect. Just my two cents...
edit: whoops, didn't notice Synk above me... that...Last edit: 2012-07-25 05:19:56 |
| | "I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates? |
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| TangSC Canada. July 25 2012 05:33. Posts 1652 | Profile Blog # |
| In a few days I'll put up a poll with your guys' and others' suggestions of why Stephano is the best, and see what everyone votes on ^^ Last edit: 2012-07-25 05:33:34 |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| Robo-boogey Australia. July 25 2012 05:42. Posts 102 | Profile # |
My take is that, compared to other zergs:
1) As suggested by others above, Stephano invests more time getting good engagements, and he also gets more macro-hatches late game to balance this.
2) Of the zergs with good macro, he is more willing to apply pressure, and trade units earlier in the game, than most others. eg roach-ling-bane aggression against Terran, while taking a third and getting evos for upgrades behind it, as opposed to just maxing on drones asap.
3) His macro is very good.
4) He rallies his hatches separately, so he can choose which one the units come from in case he is being attacked, and he hotkeys eggs, this greatly helps with crisis management. You never see random groups of units sitting in the middle of the map doing nothing (common for other foreign zergs), and likewise you don't see mis-rallied overlords dying in the middle of the map for no reason, I think this is all connected to how he hotkeys eggs. |
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| maracuja123 Brazil. July 25 2012 05:44. Posts 409 | Profile # |
| lol why cant you write these stuff instead of just posting the videos? there are people who wants to read stuff and cant just watch videos because of work :/ |
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| dZn July 25 2012 05:45. Posts 19 | Profile # |
Its a combination of great scouting, game sense, and best micro at the moment as mentioned above.
He does not lose one milli-second (pun intended) when he builds workers, cause he just hits 4 (all hatches) and q (larva and also build drone) – mostly grid layout. So by just putting q down he builds a drone as soon as any larva appears. In combination with his fast mechanics and his game sense he is able to get nearly the maximum units at any given time and makes them worth more with his micro. His easy macro style also frees up “memory” from the brain to focus more on micro. With easy macro style I mean that he doesn’t need to stretch his fingers far away, and always puts his eggs into his groups 1 and 2 while morphing. So he keeps himself always organized. he can be even greedier by doing this, because his defending units will participate in a fight as soon as they hatch.
One weakness is his injects. His Inject style is slow compared to other pro zergs. That might be why he is so great with roaches, cause it forgives “sloppy” injecting as long as he drones up perfectly. Even if he gets supply blocked several times it is easy for him to catch up because he will have enough larva to hit his timing against toss! The need for an earlier macro hatch when he plays muta ling could be delayed by organizing his injects in a way that he would only need 1 second for it before focussing on micro again. i think his method today is to hit 3 (all queens) then click on the minimap to go to one of his hatcheries, click minimap, hit x for inject, left click on the center of the main screen to inject hatch. (i think he does not minimap injecting, but navigation to hatches and click on the hatch). thats time inefficient, and pulls away focus.
He tabs a lot, so he sees when new larva spawned, and this is his reminder to inject again. one thing i would like to see more pros doing is to tab a single hatch from time to time, to see the progress of the larva timer. combined with faster injecting = gosu!!
As far as I know he doesn’t use camera hotkeys. He gets away with it because he clicks fast on the minimap. If he would spend the extra mile to improve on camera hotkeys it might make him even stronger.
Sometimes it seems that the only one that can defeat him is Stephano himself.
Just to add: He uses a French keyboard layout (stephano usa!!), so he actually hits 4aa to build a drone (AZERTY) (QSDFG) and q is his attack key, just like english keyboard grid with A for attack instead of T and Q for larva / drones.
At the moment he gets away with all this "imperfections", because his skills outweight them by far. He has his workarounds.
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| hersenen Belize. July 25 2012 05:45. Posts 176 | Profile # |
| He makes more than 40 drones per game on average. Unlike others in this thread. |
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| paddyz Ireland. July 25 2012 05:53. Posts 416 | Profile # |
" 4-1 victory against MC" was it not 4-2?
I cant really take this very seriously, he still has a losing record vs MC (who is in the final of GSL) and Alicia got to the finals of both NASL and MLG. . . both players are better then him, don't pretend he is out of their league, capable of "owning" or "dismembering" them at will.
I am not here to stir up all the fanboys, just to warn you to not get too carried away, the guy already has all the hype and credit he deserves, he doesn't need another thread just to over hype him more, imo at least.
Oz even tore him apart, twice, in his best matchup.
Stephano is not the God of zerg, he is no God, just someone over rated and over hyped.
If he gets as far as naniwa in GSL then he might deserve a thread
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| | http://www.anook.com/paddy |
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| TangSC Canada. July 25 2012 06:01. Posts 1652 | Profile Blog # |
On July 25 2012 05:53 paddyz wrote:
" 4-1 victory against MC" was it not 4-2?
I cant really take this very seriously, he still has a losing record vs MC (who is in the final of GSL) and Alicia got to the finals of both NASL and MLG. . . both players are better then him, don't pretend he is out of their league, capable of "owning" or "dismembering" them at will.
I am not here to stir up all the fanboys, just to warn you to not get too carried away, the guy already has all the hype and credit he deserves, he doesn't need another thread just to over hype him more, imo at least.
Oz even tore him apart, twice, in his best matchup.
Stephano is not the God of zerg, he is no God, just someone over rated and over hyped.
If he gets as far as naniwa in GSL then he might deserve a thread
I'm not trying to take anything away from Alicia, MC, or naniwa. They're all awesome and should have their owns threads...but I don't play Protoss  I also really enjoy watching Stephano play, and think Zergs can learn a lot from studying him. |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| Synk United States. July 25 2012 06:15. Posts 294 | Profile # |
" 4-1 victory against MC" was it not 4-2?
I cant really take this very seriously, he still has a losing record vs MC (who is in the final of GSL) and Alicia got to the finals of both NASL and MLG. . . both players are better then him, don't pretend he is out of their league, capable of "owning" or "dismembering" them at will.
I am not here to stir up all the fanboys, just to warn you to not get too carried away, the guy already has all the hype and credit he deserves, he doesn't need another thread just to over hype him more, imo at least.
Oz even tore him apart, twice, in his best matchup.
Stephano is not the God of zerg, he is no God, just someone over rated and over hyped.
If he gets as far as naniwa in GSL then he might deserve a thread
I'm not a Stephano "fan boi" I just see him win games from positions that were certain losses for other pros and myself on the ladder. Happens all the time where I'm like " well he's just completely dead" and then he just wins some crazy battle that I can barely even understand and all the sudden he's right back in the game. He's also one of the most consistent ZvP'rs around and my ZvP is really in a pathetic place lately so I try to glean what I can from his games. |
| | Don't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. |
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| ArcticRaven France. July 25 2012 06:32. Posts 1180 | Profile # |
I think the most important part of Stephano's play is his positioning and general micro. As much as his macro is (in his own opinion) lacking sometimes, he just does more with less when actually using those units.
Especially, on Antiga Shipyard, he quite often has units down each ramp of the central highground to prepare for flanks before the opponent has even moved out yet. I think his first game against Oz at MLG perfectly showcases his talent when he comes down to winning battles in less than favorable situations.
On July 25 2012 05:53 paddyz wrote:
I cant really take this very seriously, he still has a losing record vs MC (who is in the final of GSL) and Alicia got to the finals of both NASL and MLG. . . both players are better then him, don't pretend he is out of their league, capable of "owning" or "dismembering" them at will.
I am not here to stir up all the fanboys, just to warn you to not get too carried away, the guy already has all the hype and credit he deserves, he doesn't need another thread just to over hype him more, imo at least.
Oz even tore him apart, twice, in his best matchup.
Stephano is not the God of zerg, he is no God, just someone over rated and over hyped.
If he gets as far as naniwa in GSL then he might deserve a thread
You for sure do seem quite biased sir ^^ As much as I agree that calling him God might be a little exaggerated, if he beats Alicia 4-0 he definitely is better than him. But well, let's not carry this into a haters vs fanboys thread. |
| | [EatThePath] I call assassins as my faction. Please tell me we can all agree that in the version of history, Steppes of War will be Jerusalem. |
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| TangSC Canada. July 25 2012 06:49. Posts 1652 | Profile Blog # |
On July 25 2012 06:32 ArcticRaven wrote:I think the most important part of Stephano's play is his positioning and general micro. As much as his macro is (in his own opinion) lacking sometimes, he just does more with less when actually using those units. Especially, on Antiga Shipyard, he quite often has units down each ramp of the central highground to prepare for flanks before the opponent has even moved out yet. I think his first game against Oz at MLG perfectly showcases his talent when he comes down to winning battles in less than favorable situations.
Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 05:53 paddyz wrote:
I cant really take this very seriously, he still has a losing record vs MC (who is in the final of GSL) and Alicia got to the finals of both NASL and MLG. . . both players are better then him, don't pretend he is out of their league, capable of "owning" or "dismembering" them at will.
I am not here to stir up all the fanboys, just to warn you to not get too carried away, the guy already has all the hype and credit he deserves, he doesn't need another thread just to over hype him more, imo at least.
Oz even tore him apart, twice, in his best matchup.
Stephano is not the God of zerg, he is no God, just someone over rated and over hyped.
If he gets as far as naniwa in GSL then he might deserve a thread
You for sure do seem quite biased sir ^^ As much as I agree that calling him God might be a little exaggerated, if he beats Alicia 4-0 he definitely is better than him. But well, let's not carry this into a haters vs fanboys thread.
I used the term "God" metaphorically  |
| | Coaching TangStarcraft.com | Team All-Inspiration | Stream Twitch.TV/TangSC |
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| SC2John United States. July 25 2012 07:05. Posts 984 | Profile # |
Quite honestly, for a long time, I concluded that the #1 reason Stephano was good was because he had a unique and, quite honestly, much easier playstyle. I think anyone can agree that Stephano's quick 3-base ZvT with double ups was far superior to the 2-base muta strategies that were out at the time. And Stephano was the first person to really get a good grip on solid 3-base timings in ZvP. For a long time, I simply assumed it was his ingenious builds that gave him his success, not his actual skill.
HOWEVER, as we've seen the metagame shift over to Stephano style and EVERYONE doing the same things with the same timings, Stephano has STILL been wrecking. Even with the brilliant protoss immortal/sentry hard counter to the famous "Stephano max" strategy, Stephano has STILL overcomes it with just brilliant maneuvers and clever positioning.
So...in all honestly, I suspected Stephano would eventually be figured out and fall. But we've seen him get figured out and still continue fighting, beating some of the best players in the world time and time again. Right now Stephano is probably the most successful player in foreign tournaments; I would like to see him play in GSL, but I don't think that's his style, and I don't know if he ever will participate in GSL when he has so much success in several different tournaments worldwide. |
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