| Blazinghand United States. July 27 2012 16:53. Posts 12151 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2012 16:42 BobMcJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 16:19 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 27 2012 16:04 Superouman wrote:
You guys have to know that the choke on colosseum is a flat one but blocked with LoS blockers so you can forcefield it with one and still have 3 buildings to wall it off
To illustrate what Superouman is saying: + Show Spoiler [picture] +Basically, you can emulate the effect of a ramp using chokes and carefully placed LoS blocking. This prevents 4gate vs 4gate from being the dominant PvP meta on Colloseum; you can defend with sentries.
I still dont understand how the sentry can see beyond the los blocker but the stalker can't. That said if it works it's really cool, diagonal 1square ramps were starting to get a bit boring 
If your unit is literally inside the LoS blocker you can see out either side of it:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/K18T0l.jpg)
And on colloseum, it's also a choke, so you can use an FF to keep your opponent from getting LoS, just like a ramp.
On July 27 2012 16:48 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 16:42 BobMcJohnson wrote:
On July 27 2012 16:19 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 27 2012 16:04 Superouman wrote:
You guys have to know that the choke on colosseum is a flat one but blocked with LoS blockers so you can forcefield it with one and still have 3 buildings to wall it off
To illustrate what Superouman is saying: + Show Spoiler [picture] +Basically, you can emulate the effect of a ramp using chokes and carefully placed LoS blocking. This prevents 4gate vs 4gate from being the dominant PvP meta on Colloseum; you can defend with sentries.
I still dont understand how the sentry can see beyond the los blocker but the stalker can't.
You place a unit or building in the natural highground to overlook the main choke.
OR THIS! I might have misunderstood everything ;_;Last edit: 2012-07-27 16:53:59 |
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| RiSkysc2 July 27 2012 17:03. Posts 546 | Profile # |
| i dont like the look of any of these maps......... :/ |
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| frostalgia United States. July 27 2012 17:06. Posts 124 | Profile # |
| not a fan of bloody ridge, seems hard to pressure.. but the rest look SICK!! odd-eye, gauntlet, god's garden, and colleseum all look ladder-worthy, especially compared to the crap maps like TDA, shakuras, condemned ridge, and antiga. hope to see some of these considered for future use. Last edit: 2012-07-27 17:09:03 |
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| Zambrah United States. July 27 2012 17:13. Posts 1404 | Profile # |
One reason I LOVE to watch ESV (besides the lovely orb) is that they're like the first to use maps I don't get to see in competitive play.
LOVIN' IT GUYS, lovin' it! These maps look really interesting Colosseum in particular...
You guys are too awesome. |
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| ScorpSCII Denmark. July 27 2012 18:06. Posts 293 | Profile # |
| Odd-Eye definitely my favourite, but rest looks really cool as well. Great amount of innovation on all of them. |
| | Author of Atlas | Dreamforge Mapmaking Team |
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| HolydaKing Germany. July 27 2012 18:08. Posts 8002 | Profile # |
On July 27 2012 17:13 Zambrah wrote:
One reason I LOVE to watch ESV (besides the lovely orb) is that they're like the first to use maps I don't get to see in competitive play.
LOVIN' IT GUYS, lovin' it! These maps look really interesting Colosseum in particular...
You guys are too awesome.
Yeah, thanks guys. Hopefully some tournaments will use your maps, the more map rotation the better. |
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| Aeceus United Kingdom. July 27 2012 18:13. Posts 852 | Profile # |
| Gauntlet looks really interesting to me, as do the rest but this above the others. Thanks! |
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| Yonnua United Kingdom. July 27 2012 18:21. Posts 1039 | Profile Blog # |
On July 27 2012 16:48 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 16:42 BobMcJohnson wrote:
On July 27 2012 16:19 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 27 2012 16:04 Superouman wrote:
You guys have to know that the choke on colosseum is a flat one but blocked with LoS blockers so you can forcefield it with one and still have 3 buildings to wall it off
To illustrate what Superouman is saying: + Show Spoiler [picture] +Basically, you can emulate the effect of a ramp using chokes and carefully placed LoS blocking. This prevents 4gate vs 4gate from being the dominant PvP meta on Colloseum; you can defend with sentries.
I still dont understand how the sentry can see beyond the los blocker but the stalker can't.
You place a unit or building in the natural highground to overlook the main choke.
Can't you just use the high ground of the third to look over the LOS blockers as the attacker?
OT: Odd-Eye looks pretty standard. There may be some late game circle syndrome issues depending on how the players expand.
Bloody ridge - the fourth is fairly far away so it seems pretty much like it'll just be 3 base max deathball most games.
Gauntlet actually looks pretty awesome. Bases are further away but can be zoned very easily with smaller chokes. Taking the lessons from brood war very well. By far my favourite of the lot.
On Colosseum, if 4 gate can be dealt with, then there are a couple more early game balance issues that need to be dealt with like 3rax being unscoutable because you can wall so easily and weird bunker rushes (e.g. can the main be hit by 2 bunkers blocking the choke?) If those are dealt with, it's an interesting map but it's nothing incredible.
God's Garden feels for the first 3 bases like Calm Before the Storm - they're very easy to take. However, due to the difficulty of taking a full fourth base, it looks like we'll see a lot of turtle on 3 base games here as well where players just expand and then max up deathballs, maybe taking the rich vespene for an extra push but probably never aiming for a more solid macro playstyle. |
| | PartinG | NaNiwa | Creator | Mvp | Bomber | Oz | FanTaSy | JangBi |  |
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| teamamerica United States. July 27 2012 18:32. Posts 660 | Profile Blog # |
I'm sure I'll have to see it in play but I'm not sure how Zerg is supposed to play ZvP with faraway 3rds (like all these maps have o.O?). It's not like Zerg can take a faraway gas base and simcity it with forcefields/warpins possible from any pylon/blink. The best simcity I ever see in ZvP is the LACK of buildings, else toss can use the buildings as FF. It's not like 2base aggression is really viable on a decently sized map vs a FFE. Why wouldn't a toss just 7gate blink allin every game on these maps and rely on late reinforcements from main/natural to let the Toss take out 3rd? And with these far away 3rds maybe toss figures out some good airplay timings, esp. involving phoenix considering how hard (impossible?) it would be to connect the 3 bases with creep by the time FFE -> stargate hits.
Also on 2nd thought, ZvT also needs a super close 3rd because there's no good way to punish a well executed 1rax expo. Even decent midgame timings (not roach bane allins which are pretty terrible), like 2/2 ling bling busts rely on a quick 3rd. Take Bloody Ridge - is there really no direct way from main to 3rd, while drops would make me very sad between main and 3rd? Also can you tank drop the 3rd on Gods Garden?
Really appreciate the effort though guys! I'm a firm believer in balancing the game through maps, although I was hoping to see some maps with mineral only 3rds. In my opinion a mineral only 3rd 1) allows you to produce units to defend the 3rd (rely on minerals really to defend) and 2) stop you from getting a death composition on only 3 bases (for Toss the deathball, for Z no 3base hives that are actually safe, for T no getting double ups + 2 fact tank + medivacs), although mineral only bases require careful structuring of 4th. I think sc2 is developed to a point where no one needs to be on 3gas base to defend from an opponent on two, and when the opponent takes the 3rd base you can grap your 3rd gas base. But those are just my naive thoughts. |
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| hewley Germany. July 27 2012 18:43. Posts 959 | Profile # |
Those are some sick maps.
Does anyone know if there are remakes of Fighting Spirit? |
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| MarcusRife July 27 2012 18:48. Posts 222 | Profile # |
I'm concerned about the balance of the rotational symmetry on Coliseum.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0zDrf.jpg)
The bottom right distances do not look the same. |
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| Phays Sweden. July 27 2012 18:52. Posts 158 | Profile # |
| The only one I really like is the grauntlet one. I is the only map together with garden where you can take a 4th properly. |
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| nebffa Australia. July 27 2012 18:52. Posts 759 | Profile Blog # |
Great work!!!! Beautiful and strategically interesting maps! We need more of you guys  |
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| Ragoo Germany. July 27 2012 19:12. Posts 2206 | Profile # |
Very, very nice bunch of maps !
Will comment individually if map threads are posted, but I can say that all of them are unqiue and charming in their own way and I would love to see them in action.
Now make this the map pool of the Korean Weekly and you have a new subscriber :D |
| | Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud |  |
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| {ToT}ColmA Japan. July 27 2012 19:15. Posts 1885 | Profile # |
| all maps seem pretty good |
| | Miss A fighting \o/ I ve too many biases :( Hyosung Jia Min Soyu Lime Bora Yookyung <3 |  |
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| setzer United States. July 27 2012 19:22. Posts 3271 | Profile # |
| The lack of quality 3-player maps is certainly one of the features I miss most in SC2 that BW had. It's nice to see some efforts put in to make that type work on a competitive level as it seems to have been completely written off by Blizzard and tournament organizers. When executed correctly, 3-player maps can be the most dynamic and exciting, producing styles one wouldn't ordinarily see elsewhere. Colosseum looks promising and I hope it turns out well. |
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| DrDevice Canada. July 28 2012 02:13. Posts 54 | Profile # |
On July 27 2012 18:48 MarcusRife wrote:
I'm concerned about the balance of the rotational symmetry on Coliseum.
The bottom right distances do not look the same.
Good catch. This is worth looking into/changing, IMO.
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| Diamond United States. July 28 2012 05:09. Posts 9014 | Profile Blog # |
| Thanks for all the support everyone ! |
| | Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good. | |
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 Aunvilgod July 28 2012 05:13. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
| Old BW maps? That explains a lot. I hope this will encourage players to accept non-standard maps more! |
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| MCDayC United Kingdom. July 28 2012 05:41. Posts 11812 | Profile # |
| OMG that solution to having a flat choke off is awesome, I thought of something like that, but I just though it wouldn't work cause the defender wouldn't have sight either, having the natural internally on a raised platform is genius, so you can over look the choke from above. SMART, ESV <3. |
| | VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG |
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