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| Kryptonite United States. July 28 2012 08:12. Posts 155 | Profile # |
What's up everyone, Kryptonite here, looking to help all the nubbies out there (though this will be helpful for all skill levels) who are determined on improving but just can't find the best way to go about it.
Just a brief introduction of myself, I am a High Masters Zerg player going by the ID fLcKrypt, (http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/299590/fLcKrypt) playing for the fearsome North American team, Team Fallacy (http://www.teamfallacy.com/). I would characterize my playstyle as stylistic macro-oriented play. I do not always subscribe to the “current trends”, whether it be macro openers or unit compositions that most people use. For instance, I open 11pool before Overlord vs Protoss and against Terran, I focus heavily on Infestors into the late game while upgrading Missile Attack throughout the game to abuse Infested Terrans. I think that it is not only important to approach the game in different ways to get a better understanding, but it also allows you to be playing from a position you are comfortable whereas you opponent is not.
I believe that one of the main reasons we don't see as much innovative play as we should, (though there is plenty, don't get me wrong) is that it is difficult to test new build orders and strategies properly. Most people who play the game are teamless and have very few people they can “test” strategies against in a methodical manner. This results in people having to rely on the randomness of the ladder to select their opponents where it might take 10 games (sometimes even longer) until you finally get to the situation where you would be able to test your idea. And THEN, when you do finally get to that position, you get supply blocked and lose the game. And then of course there will be the times where you have this AWESOME idea against Protoss on Entombed Valley, and you are just waiting to queue up against that poor Protoss fool and then when you finally do, you go down to build your Hatchery, there are 3 Pylons greeting you at the bottom of your ramp. It can be quite frustrating, I know. So let me present to you the better and less stressful way of practicing and improving your play: playing vs the AI.
Yes, that's right. Just like when you played Starcraft for the first time and the only opponent you could play without embarrassing yourself was the computer. The only difference is that, we're not actually playing vs the AI, we are just using the AI as a dummy to test/practice your build.
Now I know that I am not the first person to load up a custom game vs the AI to test a build or to warm up (I even see pros with custom game vs the AI in their match history), but I can tell you that 99% of people are doing it all wrong. Let me just run you through how I used to practice my builds:
Log onto Battle.net, click on Multiplayer, create a custom game, choose a “very easy” computer and hit 'start'. I then would proceed to practice my build, occasionally pausing it so I can think through my strategy (keep in mind we only have THREE of these so use them wisely!). Everything will be going smoothly, and then bam, supply block at 44 supply. I'd release a breath of frustration, exit the game and restart again....going along, hitting my injects, keeping a nice even mining saturation, then I look at my gas in my main and there are 2 Drones on it...!!!!! Aright, so maybe you're a macro fiend, you never have more than 50 energy on your Orbital, you can spread creep with your eyes closed, whatever it is, you'd give DRG a run for his minerals. You're going along with your build, and about 8 minutes in, you realize you'd actually rather get another Command Center instead of those extra Barracks...load another game and do it again. Now what I'm trying to get at is that when you practice vs the computer with this method, there's a lot of unnecessary repetition. Now the solution to this is actually pretty simple: Game Saving.
Now I hope I just blew your mind as when I thought of this, it felt like an atomic bomb went off in my head. Now the reason I believe that most people haven't thought of this is because you actually can't save a game when playing a multiplayer game vs an AI. This can only be achieved if you are doing it through Single Player.
+ Show Spoiler +
*SIDE NOTE *: When you play in Single Player mode you get infinite pauses!
*SIDE NOTE* : Make sure you are playing under the 'Fastest' game speed, the default in Single Player is 'Fast'. If you already started the game, you can always change it by going to 'Options'->'Gameplay'->'Game Speed'
+ Show Spoiler +
Now the basic idea (if you don't already get what I'm saying) is that when you are practicing a build, you save the game at different points. You can then load up into any point of the build (without having to do the redundant beginning steps) and then play from there. I can come up with endless useful ways to use this, but just to list a few:
- If you want to make very minor changes to a build and are curious how it would effect it without having to spend 10 minutes just getting to that point.
- You run into a timing attack on the ladder that hits @11 minutes. Load up your standard macro-opener @7 minutes and then try and find the best way to get the composition you need.
- You want to practice executing a mid-late game tactic while still keeping up with your macro : Load up your build @12 minutes and MMA your way to victory.
Now I would suggest coming up with some method of organizing and labeling your saved games. This is my organization scheme:
“Matchup Folders” - A folder for each matchup:
- ZvZ
- ZvT
- ZvP
+ Show Spoiler +
“Build Folders” - In each folder I will have more folders labeled with builds,
- Drop Contain
- DRG 3 Base
- 3 Base 11p Gas
+ Show Spoiler +
Inside those folders are the saved games themselves. I usually like to begin each saved game with a time label as well as the last action completed:
- @123 Pool goes down
- @406 Drone Heading to 3rd
- @619 3rd Finishes
+ Show Spoiler +
“Branch Folders” - Located inside the “Build Folders”, I'll have “Branch Folders” for when my strategy might branch off depending on the situation:
- @630 Scout 2 gas at natural
- @730 Opponent Takes 3rd
- @900 Scout Immortal Sentry
+ Show Spoiler +
I think one of the best analogies of using this method is comparing it to learning a song on the piano. Often times the hardest part can be in the middle of the song. Instead of playing the song from the beginning every time, you might skip that part and go right into the meaty section. If you already have the beginning down pat, no reason to keep practicing it if there are other parts that need more work. Well I hope that everyone can take this idea and put it to some good use. Ever since I started practicing with this method, I have seen drastic improvements in my mechanics, multitasking and builds. Enjoy : )
TLDR: When you play vs the AI in Single Player mode you have the ability to save the game. By saving your build at different points, you can load up the game at any time during your build to practice and refine it.
Poll: Do you ever practice vs the AI?Yes (88) 79% No (23) 21% 111 total votes Your vote: Do you ever practice vs the AI? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Have you ever saved games to practice a build?No (66) 81% Yes (15) 19% 81 total votes Your vote: Have you ever saved games to practice a build? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Poll: Will you now practice by playing vs the AI?Yes (41) 60% No (27) 40% 68 total votes Your vote: Will you now practice by playing vs the AI? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Website: http://www.teamfallacy.com/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Fallacy/118235151604632
Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/TeamFallacy
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/flckrypt
Account: http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/299590/fLcKrypt
Last edit: 2012-10-05 16:09:23 |
| | http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/299590/fLcKrypt |
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| Callynn Netherlands. July 28 2012 08:34. Posts 877 | Profile # |
Thanks for the post, although I was already aware of practicing versus AI to perfect a build (day9 made me do it) I don't think it's a bad idea to spread the word to those rare few who feel embarressed to do it.
However, a practice partner is still the best way to go after that to work out the actual weaknesses of your build and how to deal with them. |
| | Comparing BW with SCII is like comparing a beautiful three-master sailing ship with a modern battlecruiser. Both are beautiful in their own way, both perform the same task, but they are worlds apart in how they are built and how they are steered. |
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| Peaceful Canada. July 28 2012 09:20. Posts 3 | Profile # |
I can't begin to state how important playing against ai is(forever alone T.T). it can be used for creating new builds but i use it to polish my timings(sometimes by 30 seconds). Def good guide/ reminder to players . |
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| Probe1 United States. July 28 2012 09:39. Posts 16445 | Profile Blog # |
| I prefer YABOT or SALT maps to saving games, too cumbersome tbh. It's worth pointing out that you can instantly restart a phase of a match with SALT just by text command. No loading screens and all that. Last edit: 2012-07-28 09:40:53 |
| | 우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by | |
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 MstrJinbo United States. July 28 2012 09:43. Posts 780 | Profile # |
| Very easy AI. My favorite practice partner. |
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| Kryptonite United States. July 28 2012 10:01. Posts 155 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 09:39 Probe1 wrote:I prefer YABOT or SALT maps to saving games, too cumbersome tbh. It's worth pointing out that you can instantly restart a phase of a match with SALT just by text command. No loading screens and all that.
Oh wow, I never knew about the SALT maps, that's pretty neat. The SALT maps would be a good tool when practicing with another person because then you can re-create in-game scenarios. However, I still think that saving with VS AI is better if you are playing by yourself because then you can re-load the saved game at another point in time, SALT only saves it for the current session your in. |
| | http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/299590/fLcKrypt |
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| GeeKBigOllie United Kingdom. July 28 2012 10:12. Posts 53 | Profile # |
| Wow man this is super smart, il definitely be doing this in the future! Also another advantage of playing vs AI via "Single Player" is that you dont have the built in latency of battle.net that you get through custom games and ladder. The difference is actually pretty noticeable. Thanks ! |
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| SC2John United States. July 28 2012 11:10. Posts 927 | Profile # |
A few thoughts:
1) Load up a game against AI in single player. You won't experience any issues with latency (kind of dumb that SC2 does this for multiplayer) and you can pause at will and as much as you want by pressing F10.
2) The biggest issue I have in playing against the AI is the fact that you don't trade any units. That being said, most builds can only really be practiced up until a planned attack timing. After this you run into a wall of not actually being able to play the game like you would on ladder. I'm looking forward to the addition of loading games from a replay in HotS. If you can open up a game where you had a flawless early game, you can do nothing but practice the midgame/lategame with an actual in-game representation. This will also help with practice partners so you can practice something like 12:00 roach/ling defense in PvZ without having to deal with the first 11 minutes.
3) There's actually nothing wrong with practicing your openings a million times. While it feels like it can waste a lot of time, that just means you should try to do something extra once you can execute your build flawlessly up until ~12:00. This means focusing on unit movement, creep spread, doing small pushouts with groups of marines, scouting continually with a probe until 6:00, etc. You want to not only perfect your build but try to also speed up your EPM and do more things at once.
I'm fairly certain I've played more games against the AI than I have against real people on ladder, so I'm sure of what I'm talking about. Practicing a build against the AI 50 times before playing it on ladder will make you so much better instantly. Of course, you run into problems on ladder with things you don't expect and rushes, etc; that all gets smoothed out later. But just simply practicing that same build over and over with extra actions will make you EXPONENTIALLY better. |
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| PeanutsNJam United States. July 28 2012 11:53. Posts 175 | Profile # |
| Great stuff, but probably only useful for master league and up. You're talking about marginal increases in efficiency/timing (which is everything at higher levels, but not so much at lower levels). |
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| HoMM Estonia. July 28 2012 12:09. Posts 561 | Profile # |
I practice vs AI quite a bit to perfect my builds without any pressure since if you perfect the mechanics, they will stick to you and you'll be able to perform the build without any pressure even vs a real person, which means you'll be able to focus more on the non-buildorder parts of the game.
I skimmed through the thread but I'd just like to say that I really like your idea of creating a folder for each buildorder and I'll probably start doing that myself too, thanks! (:
edit: and SALT! omg that map, how could I have forgotten about that for such a long time, I bookmarked some SALT maps now, thanks for that too hahaLast edit: 2012-07-28 12:11:19 |
| | HoMM.998 | Masters protoss, I'm looking for a clan/team/practise partners, msg me (: |
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| ZeromuS Canada. July 28 2012 13:13. Posts 8296 | Profile Blog # |
I should really do this a lot more. Instead of trying to iron out builds on the ladder -_-
Might do one week of simply practicing builds and trying to get them down in terms of hitting all my key timings.
If I can do it in perfect without forgetting I can remember orders then adjust as I play I think :/ |
| | uOttawa SC2 Club/CSL Team join@uostarcraft.com | Will we see a hatchery this game? - Tasteless (Game 2 Naniwa vs. Leenock MLG winter Arena) |
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| ineversmile United States. July 28 2012 13:47. Posts 571 | Profile Blog # |
| A lot of people used to do this in Warcraft 3 because your build order also included a creep pattern, which varied from map to map. Most creep camps were really simple and easy, but the tricks (item farming, abusing ai, kiting, dodging spells, etc.) were something you still had to practice so you could do things optimally with the least number of units. And then there were things like pulling your peasants as militia to creep, or building your ancient of war (night elf barracks) outside your base so that when it finished you could uproot it and have it help clear a tougher creep camp right away. But I haven't done this that much in SC2 since there obviously aren't creeps...so thanks for reminding me about this singlep player awesomeness! |
| | Nostradamus.146@AM, Nostradamus.398@KR, Nostradamus.922@EU http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/ins |
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| Ashelin United States. July 28 2012 13:58. Posts 2 | Profile # |
You should only practice against the AI to perfect your build timing. It's a good first stage for developing a build past an idea, but you need to find an actual human practice partner to make sure it's viable.
But yeah, I think it's something that most people skip and would really be useful in helping with refining timings/turning an idea into a build.
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 Belial88 United States. July 28 2012 14:07. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
Sort of. I will definitely test out builds in unit tester, and probably play on average 1 game a day/session (since i dont play everyday, basically) against AI to try to hit 70+ supply by 8:00 or really warm up and practice better timings.
But on the other hand, just go play the damn ladder. Just execute your build blindly on ladder, even if the opponent isn't the correct race. Your ladder points don't matter that much. |
| | How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100 |
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| ineversmile United States. July 29 2012 01:46. Posts 571 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2012 14:07 Belial88 wrote:
Sort of. I will definitely test out builds in unit tester, and probably play on average 1 game a day/session (since i dont play everyday, basically) against AI to try to hit 70+ supply by 8:00 or really warm up and practice better timings.
But on the other hand, just go play the damn ladder. Just execute your build blindly on ladder, even if the opponent isn't the correct race. Your ladder points don't matter that much.
This is a lot harder when your race functions drastically differently in all 3 match-ups. You can't 1Gate Nexus in PvP. |
| | Nostradamus.146@AM, Nostradamus.398@KR, Nostradamus.922@EU http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/ins |
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| Shaoer United States. July 30 2012 15:20. Posts 38 | Profile # |
On July 29 2012 01:46 ineversmile wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 14:07 Belial88 wrote:
Sort of. I will definitely test out builds in unit tester, and probably play on average 1 game a day/session (since i dont play everyday, basically) against AI to try to hit 70+ supply by 8:00 or really warm up and practice better timings.
But on the other hand, just go play the damn ladder. Just execute your build blindly on ladder, even if the opponent isn't the correct race. Your ladder points don't matter that much.
This is a lot harder when your race functions drastically differently in all 3 match-ups. You can't 1Gate Nexus in PvP.
But you sure can 4gate in every match up!  |
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| Kryptonite United States. July 30 2012 22:41. Posts 155 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 11:53 PeanutsNJam wrote:
Great stuff, but probably only useful for master league and up. You're talking about marginal increases in efficiency/timing (which is everything at higher levels, but not so much at lower levels).
I actually wholeheartedly disagree with this statement, I think that this form of practicing might be the most helpful from lower league players. Sure, little tweaks to a build might not be as big of a deal, but the practice concept is just as important. Many people stay in lower leagues because they make simple macro mistakes such as forgetting production rounds, getting supply blocked or not injecting. If you can just practice a simple macro build order over and over again until you get it perfect, you'd be surprised how much better you'd do in a game vs a real opponent. I believe that imperfect build execution is what holds many lower level players back from being promoted to the next league. So many times, friends of mine from lower leagues (Diamond and below) have sent me replays asking what they did wrong, and when I watch those replays, all their strategical choices are fine, it's just they have 20 less supply than they should because they didn't execute their macro well enough...sure if you micro'ed a little better, hit your forcefields or split your units better, you would have won that battle, but imagine if your army was 20% larger.
Do not underestimate the power of macro execution, it's the only thing you can practice without needing an opponent! |
| | http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/299590/fLcKrypt |
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| Sianos July 30 2012 22:57. Posts 528 | Profile # |
| When i moved i had to internet for 3 weeks, so i just practised 1 build for each matchup 2-3 hours a day for a week and i could see how my macro ability was improving. Alone from just having more units than my opponent i could easily win matches in diamond league after my internet was installed. Even nowadays i practise aggainst ai as warmup matches or when i´m not motivated to ladder just to play SC2 and i´m still improving my macro. |
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| Syfiass France. July 30 2012 23:06. Posts 72 | Profile # |
You... can save a game against AI .... this will skip me the boring few first minutes :D. I've been plaing against AI to warm up since beta, but never knew that we could save xD.
Thanks a lot  . |
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| snexwang Australia. July 31 2012 00:06. Posts 189 | Profile # | |
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![[image loading]](http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/fLcKrypt/playvsAI.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/fLcKrypt/gamespeedchange.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/fLcKrypt/match-upfolders.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/fLcKrypt/BuildFolders.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/fLcKrypt/SavedGames.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii624/fLcKrypt/BranchFolders.jpg)
