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 whatevername July 28 2012 12:24. Posts 470 | Profile # |
I'm not offering the tips, im proffering this as a course of discussion and hoping tips arise. But, basically: More than ladder anxiety, honestly, I think rage holds back people. Maybe not, but its certainly a significant problem for people, not only in relation to sc but general life. How do you deal with failure? Frankly, I dont really experience failure [frequently enough to consider how to deal with it] outside of starcraft where I lose games daily. And I cant handle it at ALL. One lost and I'm literally unable to get it out of my head in the next game, or the game after. I practically always all in after I lose a game, causing a viscous cycle where I lose a game, rage and all in and so forth. Now, you might say if the game causes you so much stress and such why bother with it, but the truth is when I'm winning or the memory of a loss is rather far off, I like the game and I really enjoy it. Thinking about it, watching it and playing it. But when I lose I get bitter as hell, perhaps from a narcissistic source to be honest, where I immediately think the game is a ridiculous joke and 'x' is unstoppable or too difficult.
Anyway, how do you deal with stress and defeat? More importantly, does anyone have a process wherein you can actually coach yourself to be fundamentally more capable of handling defeat? Not laddering the rest of the day after a single defeat isnt how I want to go through my gaming life. |
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| Silky United States. July 28 2012 12:26. Posts 219 | Profile # |
| Ok, I'm high masters and I worry about ladder so often, however the way I deal with losses and stress/rage is to believe that my rank doesn't matter and that I should just play the game with as much confidence and focus as possible. |
| | I am Lee Jae Dong's apprentice. |  |
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| whatevername July 28 2012 12:27. Posts 470 | Profile # |
| It aint even really ladder points that get to me, its the concept of defeat in and of itself. If I lose in a custom game or with a friend I'm just as mad and liable to tilt. |
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| Clarity_nl Netherlands. July 28 2012 12:29. Posts 3283 | Profile # |
You don't learn from winning, you learn from losing.
If you want to become better you have to lose.
If you become really mad at a particular loss, watch the replay and give yourself something concrete to change in your play so you improve. |
| | More gg, more skill. |  |
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| SuperSloth July 28 2012 12:31. Posts 38 | Profile # |
| The only time i rage is when i get beat by a bad player that did a strat that took no skill to do. |
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| oxxo July 28 2012 12:35. Posts 940 | Profile # |
Remember:
1) It's a game first and foremost, you are more than likely not going to and not trying to go pro. As such W/L/ladder doesn't define who you are.
2) There will always be someone better than you.
3) The AutoMM is very very good and will put you against those people that are better than you once you start winning.
4) You learn more when losing than winning.
5) Don't have the same type of attitude as the post above this one. That kind of thinking just leads to constant raging. If you lose you lose. They beat you fair and square. Learn to defend against the 'no skill strat' rather than just moan and whine about it.Last edit: 2012-07-28 12:38:01 |
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| NewDawn Canada. July 28 2012 12:36. Posts 118 | Profile # |
I don't really deal with lose that well, but I'll tell you what helps:
Get up, get a drink. Stretch. Distract yourself for a bit then watch the replay. Think about where you got too greedy or where you made a bad decision, and then know to not make that again. It makes it feel like less of a mistake, and more of a lesson. Don't tilt. You end up getting yourself into even more rage.
Usually, if I lose three in a row I just take a break. Cool down. Talk to people, go out or things of that nature before coming back. Helps.
But when it comes down to it, I usually just go emotionless, and only think about the current game.
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| Filter Canada. July 28 2012 12:43. Posts 590 | Profile Blog # |
The #1 thing is probably to have a purpose other than winning. That could be getting a certain number of workers by X time, getting your upgrades out at a crisp timing or even creep spread. Having a focus to your play makes looking at reps easier and you feel like you accomplished something, even if you get crushed. Have a goal and an area you're working on improving though when you play.
#2 Throw out games and ignore them if it's something you failed to scout, could easily defeat if you saw a second time etc. Things like proxy gates fall into this category. Rage inducing, but ignorable. |
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| Chaggi Korea (South). July 28 2012 12:44. Posts 1090 | Profile # |
| The only time I rage is when something completely out of my control happens, and that means when FPS drops or when Windows Update restarts my computer randomly... |
| | University of Michigan '10 Alumni |  |
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| Neurosis United States. July 28 2012 12:45. Posts 891 | Profile # |
| Getting angry about a loss or the way someone plays or whatever does nothing for you. When you start feeling the urge to rage just step back and realize that it's completely pointless. Why even play the game if you can't enjoy it and you're just pissed off all the time? This is coming from someone that has had really bad rage fits in the past, just simply stop giving a shit. If you lose who cares its not the end of the world, move on. |
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| Enearde France. July 28 2012 12:49. Posts 265 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 12:27 whatevername wrote:
It aint even really ladder points that get to me, its the concept of defeat in and of itself. If I lose in a custom game or with a friend I'm just as mad and liable to tilt.
I think a lot of people are trying to beat the tilt and stop being upset by a loss but you don't want that IMHO. Being upset and/or mad at yourself for a losing a game is a very good and powerful weapon to learn to play better. If you aren't upset after a loss, that mean you don't care about being bad at the game. If you've got a very competitive mind, it'ld be probably better to just accept to be upset and take a short pause before searching for a new game, stand up, stretch a little, take a read on TL or whatever website you like, nothing long.
If you feel like you need some body work, you can try to do something like 10 push ups / loss. Pretty good! Lost a kilo doing that for a month (i don't play a lot).Last edit: 2012-07-28 12:50:29 |
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| BBMorti Denmark. July 28 2012 12:57. Posts 242 | Profile # |
I can get really annoyed when I lose, but mostly at myself though. I sadly have no great tool other than to step away for a bit and cool the head before giving it a go again.. looking at the replay, spotting my own mistakes, promising myself to try and avoid the worst of them in the future.
I think the mostly used way of dealing with the emotions that flame up when losing is to conclude the other player is using a less skilled race, or strategy.. mostly race, though. I think it works for a LOT of people, too. |
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| 0neder United States. July 28 2012 13:00. Posts 3732 | Profile # |
| Exercise, man! Nothing beats physical activity for relieving stress! not even eSports will do that for you! =) |
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| Shantastic United States. July 28 2012 15:20. Posts 302 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 12:29 Clarity_nl wrote:
You don't learn from winning, you learn from losing.
If you want to become better you have to lose.
If you become really mad at a particular loss, watch the replay and give yourself something concrete to change in your play so you improve.
Unfortunately, this really isn't helpful. It's basically saying the trick to not getting ladder rage is not to get ladder rage. The reason I want to improve is the same reason I get angry when I lose. The reason I can't bring myself to watch the replay is the same reason it's worth a damn for me to watch the replay; I made a huge mistake that led me to "fail."
Here's my advice from experience:
1. Unless (or even if--depends how nice you are) your opponent was being BM, force yourself to type GG. Even if you're mad now, you'll feel better for it later.
2. Be angry. Your anger with yourself is coming from a sense of failure. Thinking that you SHOULDN'T be angry only makes you feel like you failed at something else, perpetuating an emotion you want out of your system ASAP. There is nothing wrong with being angry that you lost. That's the intensity of passion, and it's the same thing that drives you to be better. As Day[9] said, anger is simply chemicals being unleashed through your body. Act out, scream into a pillow, punch a pillow. Avoid touching fragile/expensive things when you're angry, but don't be ashamed of being angry. But don't you dare click that "Find Match" button till it's out of your system. This is the most important part.
3. Watch replays of you losing in bulk, in separate sessions from your actually playing the games. If you watch 20 replays of you losing, it's generally long enough after playing the specific games that the memory of the specific failure is a lot less vivid and easier to "relive." Instead of watching the replay right afterwards, before your ladder session, watch all your losing replays from the previous ladder session, and take notes on possible adjustments to be made. It feels a lot more rational, a lot more like learning, than endless self-criticism.
4. If you feel overwhelmed by your ladder rage, STOP PLAYING 1v1 for a while. Go play or do something else. Play 3v3 or 4v4. Play a custom mod. Play a MOBA or a class-based FPS. Class-based games like DOTA and Team Fortress 2, while highly conducive to competitive environments, are far less stressful when played as pub games, because of their less punishing, less competitive nature. Or stop playing games and go outside, run, sit, whatever. Never try to be productive while angry. It seldom works unless you're being paid.
Just my 2 cents. |
| | "My grandpa could have proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, but he's also dead." -Sean "Day[9]" Plott |  |
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| Shantastic United States. July 28 2012 15:23. Posts 302 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 13:00 0neder wrote:
Exercise, man! Nothing beats physical activity for relieving stress! not even eSports will do that for you! =)
^This.
And drink a metric shit ton of water. You'll be amazed how much better you feel when you drink 2+ liters of water a day. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever stop drinking water. Who really NEEDS a second kidney, anyway? |
| | "My grandpa could have proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, but he's also dead." -Sean "Day[9]" Plott | |
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| NeMeSiS3 Canada. July 28 2012 15:37. Posts 2969 | Profile Blog # |
Thread seemed kinda poorly written but had a great idea behind it, I gave it a little update (3:30 am so it may even be sloppy haha)
+ Show Spoiler +I'm not offering the tips, I'm offering this as a course of discussion and hoping tips will arise. Ladder rage holds people back, in my opinion, more than anxiety. You may disagree, and that is fine, but I believe that it is a significant enough problem that we should pay attention to it as it negatively affects our own online personas as well as skill level. We should also try and focus on its affects on real life, as it may have more negative impacts than we believe.
How do I deal with failure? To be frank, on a daily basis I am rather successful and I don't feel any loads of stress or failure, the issue arises out of playing Starcraft 2 though. Starcraft 2 is a highly competitive game which tasks people to their limits, so when I fail I get extremely upset and feel like (because I'm not in this situation often) overwhelmed. When I lose I find myself turning to rage, I begin to just all in every game and the vicious cycle continues until I get so upset I begin to outwardly rage (and this may actually affect people who live with/around me).
There is a really poorly thought out ideology presented by many community members, though it may work in their own right, they say "Why play a game you get so angry over" and the fact is that winning in Starcraft 2 is a natural high, I feel ecstatic when I defeat my opponent. I love Thinking about it, watching it and playing it. But when I lose I get bitter as hell, perhaps from a narcissistic source to be honest, where I immediately think the game is a ridiculous joke and 'x' is unstoppable or too difficult, we can call this the Avilo trap.
This thread is a discussion on the specifics with how you deal with rage, how do you control your temper and how do you handle the stress of losing in such a competitive environment?
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| | FoTG fighting! | |
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| whatevername July 28 2012 15:43. Posts 470 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 15:20 Shantastic wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 12:29 Clarity_nl wrote:
You don't learn from winning, you learn from losing.
If you want to become better you have to lose.
If you become really mad at a particular loss, watch the replay and give yourself something concrete to change in your play so you improve.
Unfortunately, this really isn't helpful. It's basically saying the trick to not getting ladder rage is not to get ladder rage. The reason I want to improve is the same reason I get angry when I lose. The reason I can't bring myself to watch the replay is the same reason it's worth a damn for me to watch the replay; I made a huge mistake that led me to "fail." Here's my advice from experience: 1. Unless (or even if--depends how nice you are) your opponent was being BM, force yourself to type GG. Even if you're mad now, you'll feel better for it later. 2. Be angry. Your anger with yourself is coming from a sense of failure. Thinking that you SHOULDN'T be angry only makes you feel like you failed at something else, perpetuating an emotion you want out of your system ASAP. There is nothing wrong with being angry that you lost. That's the intensity of passion, and it's the same thing that drives you to be better. As Day[9] said, anger is simply chemicals being unleashed through your body. Act out, scream into a pillow, punch a pillow. Avoid touching fragile/expensive things when you're angry, but don't be ashamed of being angry. But don't you dare click that "Find Match" button till it's out of your system. This is the most important part. 3. Watch replays of you losing in bulk, in separate sessions from your actually playing the games. If you watch 20 replays of you losing, it's generally long enough after playing the specific games that the memory of the specific failure is a lot less vivid and easier to "relive." Instead of watching the replay right afterwards, before your ladder session, watch all your losing replays from the previous ladder session, and take notes on possible adjustments to be made. It feels a lot more rational, a lot more like learning, than endless self-criticism. 4. If you feel overwhelmed by your ladder rage, STOP PLAYING 1v1 for a while. Go play or do something else. Play 3v3 or 4v4. Play a custom mod. Play a MOBA or a class-based FPS. Class-based games like DOTA and Team Fortress 2, while highly conducive to competitive environments, are far less stressful when played as pub games, because of their less punishing, less competitive nature. Or stop playing games and go outside, run, sit, whatever. Never try to be productive while angry. It seldom works unless you're being paid. Just my 2 cents.
 I shall attempt to follow all of these, and I agree with your gg bit which I use to do. It just...I guess being nice and almost officially 'accepting' he bested you is cathartic in an unexpected way? 
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| Morphs Netherlands. July 28 2012 15:44. Posts 645 | Profile # |
After following a ten-day Vipassana meditation retreat, I had learned so much about the way people create their own misery. After that I completely understood how pointless ladder rage/anxiety is.
Why on earth would you rage over something so impermanent and fleeting as a win or loss streak? I still notice how my body sometimes wants to react after I lose a game that I "should have won", but I choose to ignore that and feel fine. No more negativity.
Ridding yourself from attachment issues (in SC2: attachment to winning/winstreaks) is the best form of personal development.
Seriously, google it. there are meditation centers all over the world, the stuff is life-changing |
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| etofok July 28 2012 15:45. Posts 66 | Profile Blog # |
| There is a little good technic: Play 5 games in row. Even if you lose first 4 of them at least you know that there is only one game remaining. |
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