| mothergoose729 United States. July 28 2012 15:20. Posts 598 | Profile # |
| The metagame for terrans has shifted very sharply to 1 rax expand into three cc builds, usually with hellions as a follow up.You don't get your first units out tell about 6:00 with most of these builds, and a two base eco baneling bust hits at 6:30. I can't imagine any of these eco terran builds could stop it. Its is not something that has come back into the metagame though, and I am not sure why. Why aren't there more dimaga style busts going on in this matchup? |
|
|
| Dingo9 Australia. July 28 2012 15:36. Posts 28 | Profile # |
I'm not sure about other zergs but I'm in platinum league ATM and am using a 2 base baneling bust to great success which hits between 7:30-9:30 (9:30 is alot less successful and mostly 100% fail due to siege tech) I would guestimate a 90% winrate against T for myself atm.
If you're interested here is my build
(Haven't checked for optimisations)
14 hatch
16 pool
15 gas
16 overlord
16 2 queens
(Metabolic boost somewhere around here)
(Make sure you are scouting for hellion play, if hellion play is otw drop an evo wall and spines)
6:00ish build baneling nest --- [Whenever you can after you have dropped metabolic]
Make sure both bases are on minimum saturation then spam lings and morph outside his base
Target bunkers and marines and clean up with mass of lings.
If you're interested in replays send me a PM. |
|
|
| blade55555 United States. July 28 2012 15:38. Posts 14081 | Profile Blog # |
Um terrans have gotten good at defending vs it is one of the reasons. You just need bunkers and if terran has any idea you are doing it, he makes 3-4 bunkers and he's fine.
Also with rax being walled off makes it not cost effective. when you eco baneling bust it's essentially all in tbh. You have to do damage, if you don't do damage you are very behind because you sacrificed drones, bases and tech to do it. Even if you have 50-60 drones but you decide to do a ling/bane eco "bust" it's still somewhat all in due to the fact that teching up is going to be a lot later and you could have used those resources for more drones or higher tech units like infestors. |
| | When I think of something else, something will go here |
|
|
| BlackPanther United States. July 28 2012 15:39. Posts 449 | Profile # |
| Because nowadays, its a better bet to just out-macro the Terran with the fast third and queen for defense. |
|
|
 Belial88 United States. July 28 2012 15:47. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
Because Terrans no longer open 1 raxfe/CC first gasless into 4 rax. And they always open hellions. Roach/bane also is just stronger and would be good against the same builds I think too.
Terrans also don't 2 rax anymore, which usually led to terran being vulnerable to baneling busts, but if they 2 rax roach/bane imo is just better. I think roach/bane in just as strong against the same openings that ling/bane would be strong against. |
| | How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100 |
|
|
| RPR_Tempest Australia. July 28 2012 15:48. Posts 6892 | Profile Blog # |
I do it a fair bit. If Terrans get greedy I can kill them with it almost 100%.
If the Terrans micro slips up for even a second and you can surround their 4 hellions, they're in huge trouble vs a bane bust. |
| | ETL.Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. Currently representing Eternal E-Sports (ETL) | |
|
|
| mothergoose729 United States. July 28 2012 16:02. Posts 598 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 15:38 blade55555 wrote:
Um terrans have gotten good at defending vs it is one of the reasons. You just need bunkers and if terran has any idea you are doing it, he makes 3-4 bunkers and he's fine.
Also with rax being walled off makes it not cost effective. when you eco baneling bust it's essentially all in tbh. You have to do damage, if you don't do damage you are very behind because you sacrificed drones, bases and tech to do it. Even if you have 50-60 drones but you decide to do a ling/bane eco "bust" it's still somewhat all in due to the fact that teching up is going to be a lot later and you could have used those resources for more drones or higher tech units like infestors.
With all do respect blade, if a terran commits to a third command center they can't have 4 bunkers. They have exactly one barracks. Unless I am off on the timing of it here.
With 3 ccs terran has almost 1700 minerals tide up in just orbital commans. Sure you get that money back quickly as mules, but not before the timing of a eco baneling bust. Again, this is based on my understanding of it. Please point out where i am mistaken. Last edit: 2012-07-28 16:03:00 |
|
|
| mothergoose729 United States. July 28 2012 16:04. Posts 598 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 15:47 Belial88 wrote:
Because Terrans no longer open 1 raxfe/CC first gasless into 4 rax. And they always open hellions. Roach/bane also is just stronger and would be good against the same builds I think too.
Terrans also don't 2 rax anymore, which usually led to terran being vulnerable to baneling busts, but if they 2 rax roach/bane imo is just better. I think roach/bane in just as strong against the same openings that ling/bane would be strong against.
The roach banneling bust though hits significantly later. I guess I dont' understand how come the eco bust doesn't work if terran 3ccs. |
|
|
| fuzzz July 28 2012 17:23. Posts 267 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 15:39 BlackPanther wrote:
Because nowadays, its a better bet to just out-macro the Terran with the fast third and queen for defense.
hidden qq, i love it hahaha
|
| |
|
| blade55555 United States. July 28 2012 17:48. Posts 14081 | Profile Blog # |
On July 28 2012 16:02 mothergoose729 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 15:38 blade55555 wrote:
Um terrans have gotten good at defending vs it is one of the reasons. You just need bunkers and if terran has any idea you are doing it, he makes 3-4 bunkers and he's fine.
Also with rax being walled off makes it not cost effective. when you eco baneling bust it's essentially all in tbh. You have to do damage, if you don't do damage you are very behind because you sacrificed drones, bases and tech to do it. Even if you have 50-60 drones but you decide to do a ling/bane eco "bust" it's still somewhat all in due to the fact that teching up is going to be a lot later and you could have used those resources for more drones or higher tech units like infestors.
With all do respect blade, if a terran commits to a third command center they can't have 4 bunkers. They have exactly one barracks. Unless I am off on the timing of it here. With 3 ccs terran has almost 1700 minerals tide up in just orbital commans. Sure you get that money back quickly as mules, but not before the timing of a eco baneling bust. Again, this is based on my understanding of it. Please point out where i am mistaken.
You'll be surprised what terrans can do. Also as belial said most terrans go reactor hellion after 1 rax fe. Very rarely do terrans go 1 rax FE into another orbital then teching. Normally terrans do 1 rax fe, into reactor hellion into third which deals with it easily. Also if a terran again suspects or sniffs out some sort of all in incoming they just make 4 bunkers and can cancel buildings if they need to, to do this.
Also if terrans see an early gas that gives them a huge heads up not to do super greedy 3 CC. If you are looking to hit at 6:30 you probably need to get gas at 17 so you can get ling speed and it finish by 6:30 and have a baneling nest which would mean the zerg is getting the gas before queens are out and terran will see the gas.Last edit: 2012-07-28 17:52:50 |
| | When I think of something else, something will go here |
|
|
| drubs888 Australia. July 28 2012 17:53. Posts 4 | Profile # |
Yo, im currently plat on SEA and NA and been using delayed busts to pretty good success against terran, ive been opening up with standard 15 hatch 16 pool build getting gas around 17 supply. But i have been saturating both bases (16 + 16 + 3) 35 odd drones. Then make nothing but lings and banelings, pretty retarted build, dunno why it works, i think most are assuming that im macroing, dunno maybe they are lazy scouters.
That is all
|
| |
|
| alpenrahm Germany. July 28 2012 18:10. Posts 186 | Profile # |
You'll be surprised what terrans can do. Also as belial said most terrans go reactor hellion after 1 rax fe. Very rarely do terrans go 1 rax FE into another orbital then teching. Normally terrans do 1 rax fe, into reactor hellion into third which deals with it easily. Also if a terran again suspects or sniffs out some sort of all in incoming they just make 4 bunkers and can cancel buildings if they need to, to do this.
Also if terrans see an early gas that gives them a huge heads up not to do super greedy 3 CC. If you are looking to hit at 6:30 you probably need to get gas at 17 so you can get ling speed and it finish by 6:30 and have a baneling nest which would mean the zerg is getting the gas before queens are out and terran will see the gas.
if this were a petition, you would have my signature sir. I only disagree on the hellion part, it has become much less common compared to the 1 rax fe into 3 rax followup. But i guess it is still somewhat viable to put on some early pressure with the 4 hellion squad. |
|
|
| ErrorNA United States. July 28 2012 18:47. Posts 86 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 17:48 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 16:02 mothergoose729 wrote:
On July 28 2012 15:38 blade55555 wrote:
Um terrans have gotten good at defending vs it is one of the reasons. You just need bunkers and if terran has any idea you are doing it, he makes 3-4 bunkers and he's fine.
Also with rax being walled off makes it not cost effective. when you eco baneling bust it's essentially all in tbh. You have to do damage, if you don't do damage you are very behind because you sacrificed drones, bases and tech to do it. Even if you have 50-60 drones but you decide to do a ling/bane eco "bust" it's still somewhat all in due to the fact that teching up is going to be a lot later and you could have used those resources for more drones or higher tech units like infestors.
With all do respect blade, if a terran commits to a third command center they can't have 4 bunkers. They have exactly one barracks. Unless I am off on the timing of it here. With 3 ccs terran has almost 1700 minerals tide up in just orbital commans. Sure you get that money back quickly as mules, but not before the timing of a eco baneling bust. Again, this is based on my understanding of it. Please point out where i am mistaken.
You'll be surprised what terrans can do. Also as belial said most terrans go reactor hellion after 1 rax fe. Very rarely do terrans go 1 rax FE into another orbital then teching. Normally terrans do 1 rax fe, into reactor hellion into third which deals with it easily. Also if a terran again suspects or sniffs out some sort of all in incoming they just make 4 bunkers and can cancel buildings if they need to, to do this. Also if terrans see an early gas that gives them a huge heads up not to do super greedy 3 CC. If you are looking to hit at 6:30 you probably need to get gas at 17 so you can get ling speed and it finish by 6:30 and have a baneling nest which would mean the zerg is getting the gas before queens are out and terran will see the gas.
If they see 17 gas that just could be someone going for a 3rd base that will be safe to any sort of weird bio pressure that hits around 7:00 minutes. the reason why zergs were delaying gas was because hellions had map control, but doing a quick gas and stil getting queens from a single hatch you can defend vs hellions with some buildings get creep going and defend a third base from the weird bio pressure. |
|
|
| Vralaren Sweden. July 28 2012 18:58. Posts 129 | Profile # |
On July 28 2012 17:53 drubs888 wrote:
Yo, im currently plat on SEA and NA and been using delayed busts to pretty good success against terran, ive been opening up with standard 15 hatch 16 pool build getting gas around 17 supply. But i have been saturating both bases (16 + 16 + 3) 35 odd drones. Then make nothing but lings and banelings, pretty retarted build, dunno why it works, i think most are assuming that im macroing, dunno maybe they are lazy scouters.
That is all
Doing it aswell on Na 1k-1.4k point master and 1k master eu. Works like a charm... |
| | Its like stealing candy from.... Someone u steal candy from! -LiquidSheth♥ |
|
|
| 4Servy Netherlands. July 28 2012 18:58. Posts 1489 | Profile # |
Should be used more, alot of the current gsl builds do not hold a bling bust easily at all. Could be used more if you are 1-0 up or something. First 2 helions come just under 6.20 if you go super duper fast double gas (even before the 2th depot) which exactly the time when the fastest possible speed finishes. So when the bling bust comes you wont even have 4 helions out so no not easy to hold at all.
Pro tip, do it on spawns were the reactor spawns in the wall strucutre and blow it up with the blings instead of a bunker with only 2 marines in it and its gg.Last edit: 2012-07-28 19:04:09 |
|
|
| jimbob615 Uruguay. July 28 2012 19:03. Posts 438 | Profile Blog # |
i was doing this crap a lot and eventually it stopped working. baneling bust rarely works for me now.
i prefer to focus on a 5:30 3rd base, and then defend the first 10 marine poke with queens (lings as necessary), then deal with first real push with ling/bane and any more with infestors (+ultras). remember, OVERLORD spread! if you can see the drops coming, it's like a free donation of 500 mins / 100 gas. Last edit: 2012-07-28 19:05:16 |
|
|
| Sianos July 28 2012 19:25. Posts 528 | Profile # |
| I´m happy whenever my Zerg opponent trys to banelingbust me, because it put´s me in a good position. The only thing if have to do is to check for the gas timing and for the 3rd base and take the watchtower with my first 4 marines and i´ll see it comming. I even use into the standard 3 rax into fac into port build without tanks. If you use your 2 raxes to wallof your natrual and place a Bunker behind your wall near your CC, you can defend it pretty easily and you have good opportunities to end the game right after with a marine,marrauder,hellion,medivac attack at his 3rd. It´s almost a 100% win ratio aggainst failed busts for me in diamond league. |
|
|
| Blade2322 Japan. July 28 2012 19:45. Posts 95 | Profile # | |
|
|
| growlizing Norway. July 28 2012 21:02. Posts 80 | Profile # |
I feel the money is better spent on upgrades and teching and playing greedy myself. I am only midlevel masters on EU though. Depends on the map and depends on who I'm playing. I will do it from time to time vs my friend, who usually plays stupidly greedy.
I also more like mixing it up between a fast third and two-base with lots of upgrades and tech (stephano/leenock style) and then double expanding. Depends yet again, on the map. You can do a lot with 2/2 lings, banespeed and a fast hive with a lot of creep. But I don't think my usual terran opponents are good enough to fully utilize how greedy that build is yet, so my musings are probably not valid.Last edit: 2012-07-28 21:06:58 |
|
|
| kranten Netherlands. July 28 2012 21:37. Posts 235 | Profile # |
| How many drones/lings/banelings does an eco bust have? |
|
|
| 1 2 3 Next All |
|
Store
