[M] Sietch

Hello, this is my first map. I'll make a fancy banner later, I just need some feedback to counter my utter noobfoolery. I'm a long time lurker on the custom maps forum.

Published as: BorealisD Sietch
Made by: BorealisD
Published on: NA

Cross Positions Only (for now, might try to change it later)

Overview
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In-Game Description:
"What do your wounded say? Are there those among them who can see the water need of your tribe?"

Introduction/Inspiration:
Dune! I just finished rereading the books for the umpteenth time.

Pictures (Aesthetics):
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Data (Aesthetics):
Texture Set:
<Texture 1> Agria Concrete
<Texture 2> Meinhoff Rock
<Texture 3> Braxis Alpha Rust
<Texture 4> Mar Sara Dirt
<Texture 5> Meinhoff Sand Dunes
<Texture 6> Mar Sara Sand
<Texture 7> Mar Sara Dirt Cracked
<Texture 8> Redstone Lava Cracks

Cliff Type:
<Cliff 1> Mar Sara Organic
<Cliff 2> Mar Sara Manmade

Pictures (Gameplay):
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+ Show Spoiler [Angled Overview] + - coming soon
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Data (Gameplay):
Playable Bounds: <172x173>
Distance Analyzer Image:
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Mineral/Gas Counts:
<Marked Overview>
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All Bases 8m2g

Change Log:
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coming soon - stuff to add later
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General Comments:
1. The analyzed picture is that of the map with the middle destructible debris replaced with a inaccessible cliff so the analyzer would work. The debris is just destructible rocks with a different model and explosion effect/sound.

2. The harvester is just a critter with a different model/sound, as is the floating carryall above it. They wander a bit too far, working on correcting that. Both killable.

Balance/Attack Paths
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What I have planned: Make mains all the same size - leash critters to a smaller area.

Okay, now for some comments from me - also where I would like some help/suggestions.

1) I added the small defensive high ground at the natural choke for each base - it's large enough for a seige tank or immortal or something to be on it to give a high ground advantage during attacks. I thought it was innovative, but please give me feedback on that!

2) I've seen some varied discussion on the accepted size of mains - I know mine are not all equal, and that's going to get fixed - but what should I aim for? 30 cc's? 36 cc's?

3) I played a few practice games. Here are some things I noticed, and I already searched for these using google/tl forums so I'd love to be directed to the appropriate source or given a hint about these problems:

FIXED a) Units will sometimes float, and buildings will as well. For example, here's a screenshot I took for reference:
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What causes this? Is it something to do with the terrain height/gradient tool?

b) Is there a better way to do rotational symmetry than copy pasting/rotating, copy paste, rotate, copy paste, rotate? That took me a while.

c) Are no fly zones acceptable? I would like to put some around a few of my taller doodads, and I'd make those zones consistent with the rotational symmetry of the map (aka put the same type of zones for each starting position). I just can't recall seeing these on other maps.

d) Finally: General balance - I've looked at lots of maps, and of course I play the game at a diamond level (top 10 last season!) but I know this map will have balance issues b/c diamond players are still basically noobs. Please enlighten me!

BorealisD

Last edit: 2012-07-29 13:57:11

ScorpSCII Denmark. July 28 2012 18:54. Posts 293

Profile #

You seem to have a good understanding of the game even though it's your first map. Your terrain is not bad either, but your overuse of the height tool makes it not look good.

On July 28 2012 18:40 BorealisD wrote:
2) I've seen some varied discussion on the accepted size of mains - I know mine are not all equal, and that's going to get fixed - but what should I aim for? 30 cc's? 36 cc's?

Usually, 30 CC's is about the minimum, and 35 CC's is the high end. However, this may vary a lot from map to map, and smaller or larger mains can actually be a feature and/or depend on other features.

On July 28 2012 18:40 BorealisD wrote:
b) Is there a better way to do rotational symmetry than copy pasting/rotating, copy paste, rotate, copy paste, rotate? That took me a while.

This is the way to go.

On July 28 2012 18:40 BorealisD wrote:
c) Are no fly zones acceptable? I would like to put some around a few of my taller doodads, and I'd make those zones consistent with the rotational symmetry of the map (aka put the same type of zones for each starting position). I just can't recall seeing these on other maps.

It is accepted in moderation (ie. when you put it on top of tall doodads).

Author of Atlas | Dreamforge Mapmaking Team

BorealisD July 28 2012 18:58. Posts 20

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Yeah - I was aiming for lots of DUNES!!!!!!! on my map thus the overuse of the height tool...

Is there a quick way to reset all the heights to a default height? or just use the smooth tool and smooth it all out.

Thanks for the help! I'll put some no fly zones on my tall doodads as well.

BorealisD

Last edit: 2012-07-28 19:06:54

Insomni7 July 28 2012 19:52. Posts 596

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Your map looks strong but it isnt completely symetrical as far as i can tell from a quick glance. I would advise going through and correcting the asymetrical details just with the cliff tool, dont bother with copy/paste.
The defensive high ground is neat, i like.
30 ccs is fine for a main but mains are allowed to vary in sizes. since the game is based on at a minimum 2 base play these days, keep in mind the combined size of main and nat, not just main. you have plenty of space around your natural it seems.
I have no clue about the floating stuff
I think that unfortunately the copy/paste tool is the best way to create rotational symmetry.
I think no fly zones are fine, I know that they are on Cherno for example.
Im a masters player but by no means a map balance expert. However I see no obvious problems with your map balance-wise. The impassable center (well not completely impassable but you know what i mean) will lend itself to the kind of strange accidental basetrades which happened on maps like xel'naga. This is not at all a bad thing in my mind.
I think really you just need to work to make thw whole thing nice and symmetrical and you will have a very strong map.

"Lay the egg, become the god"

BorealisD July 28 2012 20:45. Posts 20

Profile #

Thanks - yeah I'm aware of the symmetrical difficulties, and I will correct them.

The impassable center could be a problem - I don't want this map to be daybreak (even though I actually love that map), and I positioned the xel'naga towers to try and alleviate that. Not sure yet if it will turn out that way, but I was theorycrafting that the towers are further away from the entrance to the natural than they are in daybreak, so you get a read on an opponent's movement toward your base earlier than you would on that map. I'll have to test that sometime.

Oh - and I forgot to put in the first post that it's cross positions only at the moment. I'll edit that in.

Thanks again - going to sleep but I will check this in the morning! More thoughts?

BorealisD

Last edit: 2012-07-28 20:49:07

NewSunshine United States. July 29 2012 04:08. Posts 1011

Profile #

On July 28 2012 18:58 BorealisD wrote:
Yeah - I was aiming for lots of DUNES!!!!!!! on my map thus the overuse of the height tool...

Is there a quick way to reset all the heights to a default height? or just use the smooth tool and smooth it all out.

Thanks for the help! I'll put some no fly zones on my tall doodads as well.

BorealisD

Data>Modify Height Field

select add random height, and just put 0 for the strength, this flattens everything out.

[ESV mapmaking team member] [Former DF map team founder] [@ESVNewSunshine]

BorealisD July 29 2012 06:08. Posts 20

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Thanks, that's very helpful.

For the floating units, maybe it's something to do with pathing? I changed the height field but the problem still persists.

The units appear to attempt to reach the level of the cliff nearby but cannot pass over the cliff. Sort of like a reaper without the ability to clear the lip of the cliff and make it onto the high ground. I get the feeling there's some cliff setting or something I'm missing but searches aren't turning anything up

Last edit: 2012-07-29 06:38:23

Mullet_Ben United States. July 29 2012 08:02. Posts 45

Profile #

On July 28 2012 18:58 BorealisD wrote:
Yeah - I was aiming for lots of DUNES!!!!!!! on my map thus the overuse of the height tool...

Are you just waiting for someone to point out that this map is inspired by Frank Herbert's epic science fiction series?

Anyway, your naturals are huge, with a ton of different places to hide proxies/pylons/probes/whathaveyou. I understand what you were trying to do with the cliff jumping paths (and with nydus worm spots, because giant sand worms are pretty cool), but it's really ridiculous. Also, the third looks a little far away, Overall, I think for the number of bases, the map could stand to be a little smaller.

BorealisD July 29 2012 08:12. Posts 20

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Actually, Mullet, I pointed the Dune inspiration out in the OP : )

Thanks for the opinion on the naturals. I could remove a lot of the natural space by moving the 3rd back a bit towards the main and perhaps adding another base - I was looking for somewhere to possibly add another base.

EDIT: Mullet, I changed the naturals in the latest version (I'll update the overview pic). I got rid of the section linking one of the cliff paths to the natural expansion, effectively removing about 1/3 - 1/2 of the space in the natural. I think it looks better, thank you for your suggestion.

Last edit: 2012-07-29 09:54:47

BorealisD July 29 2012 09:12. Posts 20

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Here's an image of the problem I'm having with the units:

EDIT Fixed, I modified the "ground" mover when I was making my carryall, epic fail. Units move/spawn correctly near cliffs now.

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Last edit: 2012-07-29 09:36:17

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