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| overt United States. August 02 2012 03:11. Posts 3975 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 03:04 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:01 overt wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:55 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:49 Heh_ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I find this hilarious that no one has mentioned Olympic Swimming. How about those swimming pre-lims and those heats? Are the swimmers constantly trying to do their best to get that new WR or straight up win those heats? nope, the do just enough to qualify, yet no olympic committee ban hammer swinging their way.
It's really different. The swimmers have to meet certain times to qualify, meaning that they still have to put in effort to meet a benchmark. In the badminton situation, the teams were trying to lose. There's a difference between qualifying in the top 8 and outright losing.
No it is not different. These were the group stages, they had already qualified. Hence, they could afford to throw the match and still advance.
Swimmer's not giving it their all =/= intentionally trying to lose. No one said these badminton players had to like throw out their knees or dive to make ridiculous plays. But they shouldn't be blatantly losing games. Of course they were disqualified. And in any respectable organization anyone who intentionally loses a match should be disqualified. You can bitch and moan about the organization being bad but if your team doesn't have the confidence to win and resorts to match throwing then you don't deserve to continue on.
So they're being punished for not being good enough actors
I don't even know how to respond to this lol. Obviously if you can throw games and make it look like you actually tried then congratulations, you beat the system. But tax evasion, even if you make it look like you're not doing it, is still tax evasion. And match fixing, even if it's done well, is still match fixing.
It isn't suddenly okay or justifiable if you can make it look like you're not doing it.Last edit: 2012-08-02 03:12:21 |
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| RifleCow Canada. August 02 2012 03:12. Posts 552 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:08 Aim Here wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:05 Ramong wrote:
On August 02 2012 03:03 Xpace wrote:
If an individual wants to lose to gain an overall advantage, that tells a lot of the system itself...
Personal honor and respecting your opponent is nice and all, but that won't get you the gold (medal).
But they didn't lose to gain an advantage for them self, the Chinese team who threw could easily get into the finals. They did it so that 2 Chinese teams could get into the finals. It wasn't even the players decision, but the Chinese management
Had the Chinese team won the match, they'd be playing against the number 2 seeds in the tournament. Arranging the brackets to not play them was a no-brainer, no matter what nationality these Chinese players were, unless the other team they'd be playing against was the number 1 seed. And that wasn't the case, since the number 1 seeds were the Chinese players throwing the game.
Indeed, the reason for all four teams disqualifications were because they were deliberately losing in order to avoid the "best team". |
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| IceSlipper Australia. August 02 2012 03:15. Posts 1018 | Profile Blog # |
One of the biggest issues I have with the argument that it is the organizers to blame is the following.
People keep saying "They were trying to get the easiest path to win. If given the choice would you try to win and be forced down the hard path. Or lose on purpose and get given the easy path to the gold medal?"
Problem: Losing on purpose 'to get the easy path' is NOT a path to the gold medal at all. Its a one way road to disqualification. Don't try to justify this by saying they were trying to get the easy path. Losing on purpose and not trying goes against the spirit of the Olympics and is most definitely not a 'path'.
I would have been less disappointed had they faked injuries or not turned up than what they did by showing up and totally disrespecting their opponents and everyone else in the event.
Disgusting. Disrespectful. Deserved to be disqualified. Should be sent home and not even get to attent the closing ceremony. |
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| InvXXVII Canada. August 02 2012 03:15. Posts 239 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:01 Ramong wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:01 overt wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:55 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:49 Heh_ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I find this hilarious that no one has mentioned Olympic Swimming. How about those swimming pre-lims and those heats? Are the swimmers constantly trying to do their best to get that new WR or straight up win those heats? nope, the do just enough to qualify, yet no olympic committee ban hammer swinging their way.
It's really different. The swimmers have to meet certain times to qualify, meaning that they still have to put in effort to meet a benchmark. In the badminton situation, the teams were trying to lose. There's a difference between qualifying in the top 8 and outright losing.
No it is not different. These were the group stages, they had already qualified. Hence, they could afford to throw the match and still advance.
Swimmer's not giving it their all =/= intentionally trying to lose. No one said these badminton players had to like throw out their knees or dive to make ridiculous plays. But they shouldn't be blatantly losing games. Of course they were disqualified. And in any respectable organization anyone who intentionally loses a match should be disqualified. You can bitch and moan about the organization being bad but if your team doesn't have the confidence to win and resorts to match throwing then you don't deserve to continue on.
Exactly! So what if the rules are stupid, just file a complain and continue on, don't resort to cheating and game throwing. 1 evil does not justify another The problem is that the Chinese teams seems not to play to win but for their country to get as many medals as possible, and that is just wrong. This ain't a competition between countries, I know that many Chinese and even Americans seems to think it is and that a country can apparently "win" the Olympic. They should just individually play to win and not care about nationalism
They should play individually and not care about nationalism??? Please do explain that.
Apart from sportsmanship, competing in the Olympics is about representing your country and making your country proud. When you win a medal, the medal does not only belong to you. |
| | A good loser is still a loser. |
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| S_SienZ August 02 2012 03:16. Posts 1797 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:11 overt wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:04 floor exercise wrote:
On August 02 2012 03:01 overt wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:55 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:49 Heh_ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I find this hilarious that no one has mentioned Olympic Swimming. How about those swimming pre-lims and those heats? Are the swimmers constantly trying to do their best to get that new WR or straight up win those heats? nope, the do just enough to qualify, yet no olympic committee ban hammer swinging their way.
It's really different. The swimmers have to meet certain times to qualify, meaning that they still have to put in effort to meet a benchmark. In the badminton situation, the teams were trying to lose. There's a difference between qualifying in the top 8 and outright losing.
No it is not different. These were the group stages, they had already qualified. Hence, they could afford to throw the match and still advance.
Swimmer's not giving it their all =/= intentionally trying to lose. No one said these badminton players had to like throw out their knees or dive to make ridiculous plays. But they shouldn't be blatantly losing games. Of course they were disqualified. And in any respectable organization anyone who intentionally loses a match should be disqualified. You can bitch and moan about the organization being bad but if your team doesn't have the confidence to win and resorts to match throwing then you don't deserve to continue on.
So they're being punished for not being good enough actors
I don't even know how to respond to this lol. Obviously if you can throw games and make it look like you actually tried then congratulations, you beat the system. But tax evasion, even if you make it look like you're not doing it, is still tax evasion. And match fixing, even if it's done well, is still match fixing. It isn't suddenly okay or justifiable if you can make it look like you're not doing it.
The point is rules that are difficult to enforce are only as good as how stupid the offenders are, which does not make a good system.
Athletes nowadays are trained for one thing only: to win. Let's be honest and no offence to anyone but they're not exactly the deepest thinkers. To hope that they hold on to "the Olympic spirit" is stupid as fuck and all efforts should be focused on designing a new unexploitable system rather than continuing to blame players who were probably just following coach orders. The saddest part is, half the crowd probably hasn't watched badminton in their life and would have forgotten about these players within hours had they played honest and lost. |
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| MadNeSs Denmark. August 02 2012 03:19. Posts 1503 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:00 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:56 MadNeSs wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:07 Grettin wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:
Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
Do you mean in Starcraft? Foreigners do it just as much, for sure. Hint hint, Stephano vs Brat_Ok, Assembly tournament.
No i'm talking about the sports (atleast the individual once, they the only ones I know about) that they're good at. I just think that it's a thing that especially koreans do. I've got some other examples where they've done it too. But I dont really feel like writing them all down right now. But it's really unsympathetic to do this stuff, even though it's not illegal (expect for in the OL) and it's very hard to prove. I think that that's just some asians, and especially koreans do. I mean just look at bw/sc 2 over the last year, and it's pretty obv that they throw matches on purpose.
That's coz you're looking at areas where Asians kick ass. It's not because they're Asian, it's because you gotta be good at something to throw, otherwise you're just sucking. If you wanna see examples of stuff like this done by westerners have a look at F1 and football. Done all the time.
I dont know what kinda football you watch, but it's not very common to lose matches on purpose (why would you even want to ever lose on purpose anyways in football?). And for f1 I dont watch it that much, but remember watching it one time where Ferrari had the two first spots, and Barrichello was in pole position, and schumacher (It think it was when he still raced), and they Barrichello slowed down so much that Schumacher would get first place, because they needed the points for him. And they also got punished for it, with a fine or a point reduction, I forgot how. So I dont think that it's looked at in the same way here in the west, as it is in Asia.Last edit: 2012-08-02 03:22:29 |
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| Murlox France. August 02 2012 03:21. Posts 1084 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 02:54 BBMorti wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:46 Murlox wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:39 BBMorti wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:11 Murlox wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:I dont understand, why this is even a discussion, why they got dispelled. They went against the rules of the Olympic comite, in their own tournament. So if they lose (and just for the record they do it alot imo, just not as obv, and the tourney organisers have always looked past it) on purpose and the comite (I really hope that this is how it's spelled in english  ) doesnt like it, well then they deserve to get expelled, there's really no reason to argue about this. They went against the rules og the tourney, and now they're expelled, to bad. Let's just hope that in the future asians (mostly koreans and chinese) will stop doing this, since now they've seen that there can be consequentes for this. And I really hope they do because I'm sure they do it alot in every sport, even in Starcraft. Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
The fact is the rule is not a mathematical, nor binary one : it's not a clear. There are many types of rules. This one is highly subject to interpretation. Those are the worst rules. Large rules. You kind of can put anything in it, you see. It's hard to even know if you are breaking it or not. It's a bliss only for lawyers, as you can talk your way out or in.
This is just silly talk, they were warned directly by judges in the middle of the matches as well as other times and still continued. There was NOTHING that was not clear for them in this.
This is not silly talk, this is the basic of any trial. I did not know about the judge warning, while it makes the situation clearer, it doesn't make the rule any more specific. What I'm trying to say here is : "breaking the rule" can sometimes mean very little, and you shouldn't claim that "They went against the rules of the Olympic comite, in their own tournament" to infer that the sanction is merited. Especially when a rule is that general.
That is really the problem here, you and so many others are quick to grasp an opinion from the air around you without introducing yourself to many factors at all in the issue. Are you also aware that the Chinese officially apologised for what their team did? Edit: Also factor in, if you have a few millions and knew the #1 Badminton team would simply throw the match how much could be made that way because of scummy behaviour. This whole thing should naturally be condemned, boggles the mind some people defend it.
I don't see a problem.
I'm not a judge on the Olympic committee. I didn't decide anything.
I barely tried to express that binary reasoning (they break 1 so they deserve A) often does a very poor job and won't lead you very far in the field of laws (especially disciplinary rules which are redacted in order to allow flexibility).
There has apparently been a problem of communication, my post was meant to be more general, and not specific to that very case.
Edit : in other words, I'm more interested in the rules and how they are perceived here, or applied in general, than in those korean chicks I've never watched / heard about.Last edit: 2012-08-02 03:23:05 |
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| evanthebouncy! United States. August 02 2012 03:21. Posts 10736 | Profile Blog # |
| iono it's fishy for sure but when the rules are flawed it's a hard case to judge |
| | Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die! |
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| Bigtony United States. August 02 2012 03:21. Posts 892 | Profile Blog # |
By losing on purpose you are also shitting on the other teams in the tournament. If you lose to manipulate the bracket, you are gaining an unfair advantage over another team.
Sorry, blaming the tournament is ridiculous. Knowingly, blatantly cheating is wrong and they deserve the DQ. |
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| overt United States. August 02 2012 03:22. Posts 3975 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 03:16 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:11 overt wrote:
On August 02 2012 03:04 floor exercise wrote:
On August 02 2012 03:01 overt wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:55 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:49 Heh_ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I find this hilarious that no one has mentioned Olympic Swimming. How about those swimming pre-lims and those heats? Are the swimmers constantly trying to do their best to get that new WR or straight up win those heats? nope, the do just enough to qualify, yet no olympic committee ban hammer swinging their way.
It's really different. The swimmers have to meet certain times to qualify, meaning that they still have to put in effort to meet a benchmark. In the badminton situation, the teams were trying to lose. There's a difference between qualifying in the top 8 and outright losing.
No it is not different. These were the group stages, they had already qualified. Hence, they could afford to throw the match and still advance.
Swimmer's not giving it their all =/= intentionally trying to lose. No one said these badminton players had to like throw out their knees or dive to make ridiculous plays. But they shouldn't be blatantly losing games. Of course they were disqualified. And in any respectable organization anyone who intentionally loses a match should be disqualified. You can bitch and moan about the organization being bad but if your team doesn't have the confidence to win and resorts to match throwing then you don't deserve to continue on.
So they're being punished for not being good enough actors
I don't even know how to respond to this lol. Obviously if you can throw games and make it look like you actually tried then congratulations, you beat the system. But tax evasion, even if you make it look like you're not doing it, is still tax evasion. And match fixing, even if it's done well, is still match fixing. It isn't suddenly okay or justifiable if you can make it look like you're not doing it.
The point is rules that are difficult to enforce are only as good as how stupid the offenders are, which does not make a good system. Athletes nowadays are trained for one thing only: to win. Let's be honest and no offence to anyone but they're not exactly the deepest thinkers. To hope that they hold on to "the Olympic spirit" is stupid as fuck and all efforts should be focused on designing a new unexploitable system rather than continuing to blame players who were probably just following coach orders. The saddest part is, half the crowd probably hasn't watched badminton in their life and would have forgotten about these players within hours had they played honest and lost.
None of that justifies intentionally losing games. If you were the organizer here you'd have done exactly what was done and disqualified the teams that threw games. It destroys the integrity of your organization if a team is caught intentionally losing and you just let it slide.
I'm sure they're already talking about new formats for the next Olympics that can't be exploited like this. But to act like what those players did was okay because they're 'just dumb athletes' or following 'coach's orders' is very naive. |
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| S_SienZ August 02 2012 03:22. Posts 1797 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:19 MadNeSs wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:00 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:56 MadNeSs wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:07 Grettin wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:
Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
Do you mean in Starcraft? Foreigners do it just as much, for sure. Hint hint, Stephano vs Brat_Ok, Assembly tournament.
No i'm talking about the sports (atleast the individual once, they the only ones I know about) that they're good at. I just think that it's a thing that especially koreans do. I've got some other examples where they've done it too. But I dont really feel like writing them all down right now. But it's really unsympathetic to do this stuff, even though it's not illegal (expect for in the OL) and it's very hard to prove. I think that that's just some asians, and especially koreans do. I mean just look at bw/sc 2 over the last year, and it's pretty obv that they throw matches on purpose.
That's coz you're looking at areas where Asians kick ass. It's not because they're Asian, it's because you gotta be good at something to throw, otherwise you're just sucking. If you wanna see examples of stuff like this done by westerners have a look at F1 and football. Done all the time.
I dont know what kinda football you watch, but it's not very common to lose matches on purpose (why would you even want to ever lose on purpose anyways in football?). And for f1 I dont watch it that much, but remember watching it one time where Ferrari had the two first spots, and Barrichello was in pole position, and schumacher (It think it was when he still raced), and they Barrichello slowed down so much that Schumacher would get first place, because they needed the points for him. And they also got punished for it, with a fine or a point reduction, I forgot how. But I dont think that's the same, but since they got punished it just proves how much poeple outside of Asia are against.
In group stages of football you sometimes have a situation where a team who has already played all their 3 matches having their fates in the hands of other teams. I've seen teams work together and play the most boring draw I've ever seen just so that the aforementioned team is knocked out. Happened in Euro 2004 iirc but I can't remember exactly who did it.
EDIT: Googled it. Denmark and Sweden did it to kill off Italy.Last edit: 2012-08-02 03:24:28 |
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| Arevall Sweden. August 02 2012 03:28. Posts 516 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:22 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:19 MadNeSs wrote:
On August 02 2012 03:00 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:56 MadNeSs wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:07 Grettin wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:
Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
Do you mean in Starcraft? Foreigners do it just as much, for sure. Hint hint, Stephano vs Brat_Ok, Assembly tournament.
No i'm talking about the sports (atleast the individual once, they the only ones I know about) that they're good at. I just think that it's a thing that especially koreans do. I've got some other examples where they've done it too. But I dont really feel like writing them all down right now. But it's really unsympathetic to do this stuff, even though it's not illegal (expect for in the OL) and it's very hard to prove. I think that that's just some asians, and especially koreans do. I mean just look at bw/sc 2 over the last year, and it's pretty obv that they throw matches on purpose.
That's coz you're looking at areas where Asians kick ass. It's not because they're Asian, it's because you gotta be good at something to throw, otherwise you're just sucking. If you wanna see examples of stuff like this done by westerners have a look at F1 and football. Done all the time.
I dont know what kinda football you watch, but it's not very common to lose matches on purpose (why would you even want to ever lose on purpose anyways in football?). And for f1 I dont watch it that much, but remember watching it one time where Ferrari had the two first spots, and Barrichello was in pole position, and schumacher (It think it was when he still raced), and they Barrichello slowed down so much that Schumacher would get first place, because they needed the points for him. And they also got punished for it, with a fine or a point reduction, I forgot how. But I dont think that's the same, but since they got punished it just proves how much poeple outside of Asia are against.
In group stages of football you sometimes have a situation where a team who has already played all their 3 matches having their fates in the hands of other teams. I've seen teams work together and play the most boring draw I've ever seen just so that the aforementioned team is knocked out. Happened in Euro 2004 iirc but I can't remember exactly who did it. EDIT: Googled it. Denmark and Sweden did it to kill off Italy.
They did it in like the last 2 minutes of a 90+ min game though. And the argument that it has been done before is a pretty lousy argument. It's still bad sportmanship and while not doing their absolute best might be understood, blatantly throwing the game is another thing.
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| Ecrilon August 02 2012 03:32. Posts 491 | Profile Blog # |
| Their goal is to win a medal. That's the only goal. The ruling is idiotic and disqualifies them for trying to win a medal. England is organizing an Olympics that is far, far inferior to even the subpar one in Athens. Four days and a thousand asinine incidents. The only one that should be disqualified is England, from hosting another Olympic games. |
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| AysiktiriX August 02 2012 03:33. Posts 301 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 01:01 SabreUK wrote:
People have to realise that, despite the apparent poor bracket construction, that the olympic oath emphasises key principles of sportmanship and fairplay, even to the point that an athlete stands up at the opening ceremony and takes it on behalf of the rest of the Olympic athletes. It is also a key principle of the Olympics that all Olympians have the endurance, the will to struggle through adversity and the drive to give it their all (no matter what cirumstance) in order to do themselves proud. The Olympics is all about the taking part and has been ever since its inception and to say that these athletes are not at fault for what they did is shameful.
That was the post, that summerises the situation the best. It's the Olympic games, damn it! Too bad in the last decade, they have degraded to just another world cup grade tournament and some people don't get what the Olympics are all about. |
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| MadNeSs Denmark. August 02 2012 03:34. Posts 1503 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 03:22 S_SienZ wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 03:19 MadNeSs wrote:
On August 02 2012 03:00 S_SienZ wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:56 MadNeSs wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:07 Grettin wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:
Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
Do you mean in Starcraft? Foreigners do it just as much, for sure. Hint hint, Stephano vs Brat_Ok, Assembly tournament.
No i'm talking about the sports (atleast the individual once, they the only ones I know about) that they're good at. I just think that it's a thing that especially koreans do. I've got some other examples where they've done it too. But I dont really feel like writing them all down right now. But it's really unsympathetic to do this stuff, even though it's not illegal (expect for in the OL) and it's very hard to prove. I think that that's just some asians, and especially koreans do. I mean just look at bw/sc 2 over the last year, and it's pretty obv that they throw matches on purpose.
That's coz you're looking at areas where Asians kick ass. It's not because they're Asian, it's because you gotta be good at something to throw, otherwise you're just sucking. If you wanna see examples of stuff like this done by westerners have a look at F1 and football. Done all the time.
I dont know what kinda football you watch, but it's not very common to lose matches on purpose (why would you even want to ever lose on purpose anyways in football?). And for f1 I dont watch it that much, but remember watching it one time where Ferrari had the two first spots, and Barrichello was in pole position, and schumacher (It think it was when he still raced), and they Barrichello slowed down so much that Schumacher would get first place, because they needed the points for him. And they also got punished for it, with a fine or a point reduction, I forgot how. But I dont think that's the same, but since they got punished it just proves how much poeple outside of Asia are against.
In group stages of football you sometimes have a situation where a team who has already played all their 3 matches having their fates in the hands of other teams. I've seen teams work together and play the most boring draw I've ever seen just so that the aforementioned team is knocked out. Happened in Euro 2004 iirc but I can't remember exactly who did it. EDIT: Googled it. Denmark and Sweden did it to kill off Italy.
lol nice try dude, but did you watch that game, it was so far from fixed as it could be, unless you ask the italians, is that where you got your sources? rofl |
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| winthrop Hong Kong. August 02 2012 03:41. Posts 793 | Profile Blog # |
| as a chinese i support the judgement, just like the case of naniwa, they are money hunters, not pros. |
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| jinorazi Korea (South). August 02 2012 03:45. Posts 3998 | Profile # |
| so many of you guys defending this follows the saying "its only bad if you get caught" and its twisted logic. |
| | age: 84 - location: california - sex: 잘함 |
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| Tobberoth Sweden. August 02 2012 03:50. Posts 4536 | Profile # |
I really don't understand how people can defend the organizers. Yeah, the Olympics are about sportsmanship yada yada, but this isn't my backyard soccer tournament, this is a HUGE tournament with massive consequences for the athletes. Does it suck when players try to lose? Yes, it does. But it's the responsibility of the ORGANIZERS to make sure that doesn't happen, not the players. The players goal is to get as far as possible, if the organizers mess up and makes it so that players have to lose to have a better chance at attaining that goal, you honestly can't fault the players.
And don't compare this to Naniwa, there was nothing on the line for Naniwa, he could have just done his best to give a show and prove that he belonged in GSL. In this case, there were the olympic medals on the line, which is a HUGE deal.
Accept the judgement if you want, but for gods sake don't fault the players when the organizers are the ones who fucked up.Last edit: 2012-08-02 03:51:07 |
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| Sepheren United States. August 02 2012 03:54. Posts 66 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
Sounds like they were playing to win if they were doing it for a better seed. If the tournament wasn't organized so that top seeds have the greatest advantage, then you would be dumb as a competitor to play for the top seed, instead of playing (even if needing to lose a match on purpose) to get the best seed.
It's one thing if you take a fall for the other team, or for money, or because your attitude is bad. It's totally different if it's strategy.
Do we condemn swimmers who don't win their preliminary heats when they could easily do so? No, because it's strategy and they are conserving energy. Same application here if it was for a better seed. |
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| Shinobi1982 August 02 2012 03:55. Posts 1517 | Profile # |
S Koreans got ****** again. After the fencing incident they must be thinking this is a joke competition anyway.
Well not really but I'm sure some of them think so :D. |
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