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| NIJ August 02 2012 12:12. Posts 912 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 11:44 m4inbrain wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 11:42 Doraemon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:39 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:37 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:35 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:05 Savant wrote:
On August 02 2012 10:07 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 09:35 Savant wrote:
[quote]
Stop calling it cheating. Some teams found that it was within the rules to lose and gain an advantage in the competition.
Did they now. Where do the rules exactly state that you dont need to give your best in a match? And even if that wasnt the rule they broke, they clearly threw a huge shadow over the badminton-scene, which is a punishable act. They hurt(ed? dunno the right spelling) badminton as a sport. Let me help you. "Unsportsmanlike conduct Conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" Also: ". PLAYER’S ON-SITE OFFENCES 4.1 Inappropriate conduct 4.1.1 During any match or at any time while within the precincts of the site of an BWFsanctioned tournament, not conducting oneself in an honourable and sportsmanlike manner." They clearly damaged the reputation of badminton, or would you disagree? Especially if you consider the media-attention right now? Also, and thats the most important thing, the chinese cheftrainer actually admitted that the half-final 2004 olympics was fixed. And thats not group stage, thats fuckin half-finals. So dont try to victimize the players/teams. They knew what they were doing, right from the start.
But the players are the victims. They've trained for this for years. They've invested most of their lives for this one moment - the only compensation they'll ever receive for that sacrifice is by winning.
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try. Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
The system was set up to spit on their years of training, and then they were punished for trying to adapt to it.
Really? I was under the impression the system was set up so teams from other countries get to play at least 3 matches so people from their country could watch their players compete more.
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:05 Savant wrote:
On August 02 2012 10:07 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 09:35 Savant wrote:
[quote]
Stop calling it cheating. Some teams found that it was within the rules to lose and gain an advantage in the competition.
Did they now. Where do the rules exactly state that you dont need to give your best in a match? And even if that wasnt the rule they broke, they clearly threw a huge shadow over the badminton-scene, which is a punishable act. They hurt(ed? dunno the right spelling) badminton as a sport. Let me help you. "Unsportsmanlike conduct Conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" Also: ". PLAYER’S ON-SITE OFFENCES 4.1 Inappropriate conduct 4.1.1 During any match or at any time while within the precincts of the site of an BWFsanctioned tournament, not conducting oneself in an honourable and sportsmanlike manner." They clearly damaged the reputation of badminton, or would you disagree? Especially if you consider the media-attention right now? Also, and thats the most important thing, the chinese cheftrainer actually admitted that the half-final 2004 olympics was fixed. And thats not group stage, thats fuckin half-finals. So dont try to victimize the players/teams. They knew what they were doing, right from the start.
But the players are the victims. They've trained for this for years. They've invested most of their lives for this one moment - the only compensation they'll ever receive for that sacrifice is by winning.
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try. Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
They're not cheating..
From the rulebook code of conduct: "not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" If they bothered not to read that they were warned that it was cheating and they'd be disqualified.
The only thing that's abusive and detrimental to the sport is a system that rewards losing.
And if they would do that in elemination stages? Would it be abusive and detrimental to the sport as well?
how do you throw games in elim rounds?
Edit: also, the chinese coach didnt protest against the disqualification. Tell me, thats the respond you consider if your team is punished unfair. Just remember the southkorean choach in fencing, where Britta Heidemann scored three points in one seconds and won.
The other chinese team that wasn't involved is still in. Though they were initially trying to set up a sweep of medals there, I'm sure they don't really mind eliminating most of their competitor for cost of one team. Kinda worked out well for them imo.
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| | Act of thinking logically cannot possibly be natural to the human mind. If it were, then mathematics would be everybody's easiest course at school and our species would not have taken several millennia to figure out the scientific method -NDT |
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| m4inbrain August 02 2012 12:14. Posts 1150 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 12:12 NIJ wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 11:44 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:42 Doraemon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:39 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:37 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:35 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:05 Savant wrote:
On August 02 2012 10:07 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
Did they now. Where do the rules exactly state that you dont need to give your best in a match? And even if that wasnt the rule they broke, they clearly threw a huge shadow over the badminton-scene, which is a punishable act. They hurt(ed? dunno the right spelling) badminton as a sport. Let me help you.
"Unsportsmanlike conduct
Conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport"
Also:
". PLAYER’S ON-SITE OFFENCES
4.1 Inappropriate conduct
4.1.1 During any match or at any time while within the precincts of the site of an BWFsanctioned tournament, not conducting oneself in an honourable and sportsmanlike manner."
They clearly damaged the reputation of badminton, or would you disagree? Especially if you consider the media-attention right now?
Also, and thats the most important thing, the chinese cheftrainer actually admitted that the half-final 2004 olympics was fixed. And thats not group stage, thats fuckin half-finals. So dont try to victimize the players/teams. They knew what they were doing, right from the start.
But the players are the victims. They've trained for this for years. They've invested most of their lives for this one moment - the only compensation they'll ever receive for that sacrifice is by winning.
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try. Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
The system was set up to spit on their years of training, and then they were punished for trying to adapt to it.
Really? I was under the impression the system was set up so teams from other countries get to play at least 3 matches so people from their country could watch their players compete more.
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:05 Savant wrote:
On August 02 2012 10:07 m4inbrain wrote:
[quote]
Did they now. Where do the rules exactly state that you dont need to give your best in a match? And even if that wasnt the rule they broke, they clearly threw a huge shadow over the badminton-scene, which is a punishable act. They hurt(ed? dunno the right spelling) badminton as a sport. Let me help you.
"Unsportsmanlike conduct
Conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport"
Also:
". PLAYER’S ON-SITE OFFENCES
4.1 Inappropriate conduct
4.1.1 During any match or at any time while within the precincts of the site of an BWFsanctioned tournament, not conducting oneself in an honourable and sportsmanlike manner."
They clearly damaged the reputation of badminton, or would you disagree? Especially if you consider the media-attention right now?
Also, and thats the most important thing, the chinese cheftrainer actually admitted that the half-final 2004 olympics was fixed. And thats not group stage, thats fuckin half-finals. So dont try to victimize the players/teams. They knew what they were doing, right from the start.
But the players are the victims. They've trained for this for years. They've invested most of their lives for this one moment - the only compensation they'll ever receive for that sacrifice is by winning.
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try. Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
They're not cheating..
From the rulebook code of conduct: "not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" If they bothered not to read that they were warned that it was cheating and they'd be disqualified.
The only thing that's abusive and detrimental to the sport is a system that rewards losing.
And if they would do that in elemination stages? Would it be abusive and detrimental to the sport as well?
how do you throw games in elim rounds?
Edit: also, the chinese coach didnt protest against the disqualification. Tell me, thats the respond you consider if your team is punished unfair. Just remember the southkorean choach in fencing, where Britta Heidemann scored three points in one seconds and won.
The other chinese team that wasn't involved is still in. Though they were initially trying to set up a sweep of medals there, I'm sure they don't really mind eliminating most of their competitor for cost of one team. Kinda worked out well for them imo.
Thats why i would disqualify all the teams under the specific coach. But i guess you cant have it all.
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| NIJ August 02 2012 12:26. Posts 912 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 12:14 m4inbrain wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 12:12 NIJ wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:44 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:42 Doraemon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:39 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:37 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:35 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:05 Savant wrote:
[quote]
But the players are the victims. They've trained for this for years. They've invested most of their lives for this one moment - the only compensation they'll ever receive for that sacrifice is by winning.
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try. Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
The system was set up to spit on their years of training, and then they were punished for trying to adapt to it.
Really? I was under the impression the system was set up so teams from other countries get to play at least 3 matches so people from their country could watch their players compete more.
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:05 Savant wrote:
[quote]
But the players are the victims. They've trained for this for years. They've invested most of their lives for this one moment - the only compensation they'll ever receive for that sacrifice is by winning.
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try. Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
They're not cheating..
From the rulebook code of conduct: "not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" If they bothered not to read that they were warned that it was cheating and they'd be disqualified.
The only thing that's abusive and detrimental to the sport is a system that rewards losing.
And if they would do that in elemination stages? Would it be abusive and detrimental to the sport as well?
how do you throw games in elim rounds?
Edit: also, the chinese coach didnt protest against the disqualification. Tell me, thats the respond you consider if your team is punished unfair. Just remember the southkorean choach in fencing, where Britta Heidemann scored three points in one seconds and won.
The other chinese team that wasn't involved is still in. Though they were initially trying to set up a sweep of medals there, I'm sure they don't really mind eliminating most of their competitor for cost of one team. Kinda worked out well for them imo.
Thats why i would disqualify all the teams under the specific coach. But i guess you cant have it all.
yeah let's go back to executing people by their family names while we're at it too.
how many more people do you need to throw under this fail bus until you're satisfied?Last edit: 2012-08-02 12:28:40 |
| | Act of thinking logically cannot possibly be natural to the human mind. If it were, then mathematics would be everybody's easiest course at school and our species would not have taken several millennia to figure out the scientific method -NDT |
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| m4inbrain August 02 2012 12:34. Posts 1150 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 12:26 NIJ wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 12:14 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 12:12 NIJ wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:44 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:42 Doraemon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:39 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:37 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:35 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
[quote]
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try.
Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
The system was set up to spit on their years of training, and then they were punished for trying to adapt to it.
Really? I was under the impression the system was set up so teams from other countries get to play at least 3 matches so people from their country could watch their players compete more.
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:20 diophan wrote:
[quote]
They're the victims because they got punished for (in the most flagrant way possible) violating a stated rule? Both teams were told multiple times during the match they would be disqualified if they continued not to try.
Remind me to cry a river next time someone tests positively for doping or fails a gender test because they just do those things to win right? Poor cheaters?
They're not cheating..
From the rulebook code of conduct: "not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" If they bothered not to read that they were warned that it was cheating and they'd be disqualified.
The only thing that's abusive and detrimental to the sport is a system that rewards losing.
And if they would do that in elemination stages? Would it be abusive and detrimental to the sport as well?
how do you throw games in elim rounds?
Edit: also, the chinese coach didnt protest against the disqualification. Tell me, thats the respond you consider if your team is punished unfair. Just remember the southkorean choach in fencing, where Britta Heidemann scored three points in one seconds and won.
The other chinese team that wasn't involved is still in. Though they were initially trying to set up a sweep of medals there, I'm sure they don't really mind eliminating most of their competitor for cost of one team. Kinda worked out well for them imo.
Thats why i would disqualify all the teams under the specific coach. But i guess you cant have it all.
yeah let's go back to executing people by their family names while we're at it too. how many more people do you need to throw under this fail bus until you're satisfied?
What a retarded comparison. Job well done.
Also, i dont need to throw people under the bus. If in fact the "order" to throw games comes from the coach or even the government, they need to go. In this case the chinese coach "sacrificed" one team into disqualification (maybe not intentionally, but i dont think he has sleepless nights because of that), and still gets all the benefits. They cheated (as they did many times before), and they "win" because they have their other team in a better position than before.
Guess why it would be smarter to ban ALL of the teams under a specific coach.
Edit: i also dont get why you can actually have more than one team in a competition. There can be finals that will be fought between two teams from the same nation, which is completely stupid in the first place. Just restrict national teams to just one per nation. Well, would not work that way, but anyway, that would actually solve all the matchfixing problems.Last edit: 2012-08-02 12:38:43 |
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| Doraemon Australia. August 02 2012 12:39. Posts 9574 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 12:34 m4inbrain wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 12:26 NIJ wrote:
On August 02 2012 12:14 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 12:12 NIJ wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:44 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:42 Doraemon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:39 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:37 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:35 diophan wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
[quote]
The system was set up to spit on their years of training, and then they were punished for trying to adapt to it.
Really? I was under the impression the system was set up so teams from other countries get to play at least 3 matches so people from their country could watch their players compete more.
On August 02 2012 11:30 Ecrilon wrote:
[quote]
They're not cheating..
From the rulebook code of conduct: "not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport" If they bothered not to read that they were warned that it was cheating and they'd be disqualified.
The only thing that's abusive and detrimental to the sport is a system that rewards losing.
And if they would do that in elemination stages? Would it be abusive and detrimental to the sport as well?
how do you throw games in elim rounds?
Edit: also, the chinese coach didnt protest against the disqualification. Tell me, thats the respond you consider if your team is punished unfair. Just remember the southkorean choach in fencing, where Britta Heidemann scored three points in one seconds and won.
The other chinese team that wasn't involved is still in. Though they were initially trying to set up a sweep of medals there, I'm sure they don't really mind eliminating most of their competitor for cost of one team. Kinda worked out well for them imo.
Thats why i would disqualify all the teams under the specific coach. But i guess you cant have it all.
yeah let's go back to executing people by their family names while we're at it too. how many more people do you need to throw under this fail bus until you're satisfied?
What a retarded comparison. Job well done. Also, i dont need to throw people under the bus. If in fact the "order" to throw games comes from the coach or even the government, they need to go. In this case the chinese coach "sacrificed" one team into disqualification (maybe not intentionally, but i dont think he has sleepless nights because of that), and still gets all the benefits. They cheated (as they did many times before), and they "win" because they have their other team in a better position than before. Guess why it would be smarter to ban ALL of the teams under a specific coach.
wow. are you seriously insinuating the governemnt needs to go.....? the players simply followed the coaches orders and got penalised the most. it's a sad situation, but no needs to say crap like disqualifying everyone else under the same coach.
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| | Do yourself a favour and just STFU |
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| NIJ August 02 2012 12:55. Posts 912 | Profile # |
| You should work for the BWF because your less than a min thought-out solutions are exactly what BWF likes to see implemented. |
| | Act of thinking logically cannot possibly be natural to the human mind. If it were, then mathematics would be everybody's easiest course at school and our species would not have taken several millennia to figure out the scientific method -NDT |
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| nodnod New Zealand. August 02 2012 12:57. Posts 172 | Profile # |
| IMO this is a terrible decision. So when Wiggins said he would set up Cavendish for the road race, not only was he not breaching the 'spirit of the game' by not trying to win himself; in fact he was applauded for it. This laughable double standard is all the more blatant when you wonder just how much of the decision was probably due to the public opinion rather than based on impartiality. Pathetic really. Last edit: 2012-08-02 12:59:29 |
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| m4inbrain August 02 2012 13:00. Posts 1150 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 12:39 Doraemon wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 12:34 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 12:26 NIJ wrote:
On August 02 2012 12:14 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 12:12 NIJ wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:44 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:42 Doraemon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:39 m4inbrain wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:37 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:35 diophan wrote:
[quote]
Really? I was under the impression the system was set up so teams from other countries get to play at least 3 matches so people from their country could watch their players compete more.
[quote]
From the rulebook code of conduct:
"not using one's best efforts to win a match" and "conducting oneself in a manner that is clearly abusive or detrimental to the sport"
If they bothered not to read that they were warned that it was cheating and they'd be disqualified.
The only thing that's abusive and detrimental to the sport is a system that rewards losing.
And if they would do that in elemination stages? Would it be abusive and detrimental to the sport as well?
how do you throw games in elim rounds?
Edit: also, the chinese coach didnt protest against the disqualification. Tell me, thats the respond you consider if your team is punished unfair. Just remember the southkorean choach in fencing, where Britta Heidemann scored three points in one seconds and won.
The other chinese team that wasn't involved is still in. Though they were initially trying to set up a sweep of medals there, I'm sure they don't really mind eliminating most of their competitor for cost of one team. Kinda worked out well for them imo.
Thats why i would disqualify all the teams under the specific coach. But i guess you cant have it all.
yeah let's go back to executing people by their family names while we're at it too. how many more people do you need to throw under this fail bus until you're satisfied?
What a retarded comparison. Job well done. Also, i dont need to throw people under the bus. If in fact the "order" to throw games comes from the coach or even the government, they need to go. In this case the chinese coach "sacrificed" one team into disqualification (maybe not intentionally, but i dont think he has sleepless nights because of that), and still gets all the benefits. They cheated (as they did many times before), and they "win" because they have their other team in a better position than before. Guess why it would be smarter to ban ALL of the teams under a specific coach.
wow. are you seriously insinuating the governemnt needs to go.....? the players simply followed the coaches orders and got penalised the most. it's a sad situation, but no needs to say crap like disqualifying everyone else under the same coach.
Are you trolling? Its not that hard to understand a simple sentence.
Little hint, because you seemingly didnt even bother to read at least the last three pages: "Here, not only them, but their government forces their coaches forces them to throw the match because it helps them win." - from someone else, not me.
Of course the players followed the orders of the coach/government, so? Does that make it right? In germany a big corporation ("Schlecker") went bust, with all employees fired in the end. The big shot made the wrong decisions, the "little man" pays for it. Same here: the players are responsible for their actions. They cant be told to "commit a crime" or whatever the right phrase is for that, and expect to not be punished for this because "its a strategy the coach tought us".
Did you even watch the matches in question? Did the koreans/chinese actually look "sorry" to you? They knew what they were doing. They could even have tried to disguise the matchfixing, but could not be bothered - and if you really think, their coach said "well, just take your racket and hit the net, we dont want to win", youre pretty naive.
Its disgusting that the chinese as a nation in the olympic games profits from that, and that should be forbidden. If the head of your team cheats, the entire team should be banned (edit: and before you say it, because i KNOW you want to say it.. of course that would go for every nation, including mine). Sad for the players, but how else would you ensure that there is no profit by cheating? "Well we cheated because we were told to, now our coach is "disqualified" so we promise to not cheat anymore"? Yeah.. Sure. If in formula 1 a driver gets told to let his team-collegue pass, the whole team (with a high possibility that the drivers are included, not just the teamchef) gets punished. Why is that a bad thing?
Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:02:52 |
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 itsjustatank United States. August 02 2012 13:00. Posts 3110 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 11:49 vasculaR wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 11:42 Ecrilon wrote:
On August 02 2012 11:38 diophan wrote:
If you watched the two games as someone who loves badminton I am pretty sure you would not be saying that.
They owe you nothing. They put their lives into this sport and apparently you want them to lose a medal because you want better entertainment? I watched the matches as someone that cares about these players, and they're the victims of trash London organization. Blaming the athletes is what's hurting badminton.
Ok I'm watching from the TV.. Frankly .. its just some time I wasted. Nothing much. But how about the people in the stadium? They travelled there and paid money. Did you hear them clapping for the players? There were loud boos and rightfully so. How about the other competitors?
Those people in the stadium who paid money for those seats are still not entitled to anything from those players. They paid for seats, they got their seats; their contract for those seats was with the person or organization selling those seats. It just so happens that people seem to be playing a game in the arena at the same time.
This whole episode and thread seems to be a real sports re-enactment of the Naniwa probe rush thread. There are two sides in this: one side blaming tournament structure and the other blaming the players based on ideals of honor. There is once again zero clash between these two sides in the thread.
And, one of the Chinese players on the disqualified badminton team has announced that they will quit the sport.
(Reuters) - Disqualified Chinese Olympic women's doubles player Yu Yang has quit badminton, she told her Chinese microblog.
"This is my last competition. Goodbye Badminton World Federation, goodbye my beloved badminton," said Yu.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/olympics-badminton-scandal-china-yu-quit-idINDEE87101820120802Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:03:57 |
| | <Rekrul> luck is just statistics taken personally | |
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| m4inbrain August 02 2012 13:25. Posts 1150 | Profile # |
Well, thats sad (it actually is). But then again, who is to blame for that?
Look at the complete statement.
“This is my last time competing. Goodbye Badminton World Federation, goodbye my beloved badminton,” Yu Yang said on her Weibo, or microblog, late Wednesday. “You have heartlessly shattered our dreams. It is just unforgivable.”
Is it just me expecting more of a "sense of guilt", rather than blaming an organisation for (maybe) punishing her too hard?
Or is there a language-barrier and i misunderstand her statement, could someone clarify? To me it does not read as an apology but more like a blame, it even is contradicted by the statement of the coach (who admitted the error, and said it is him to blame, apologized to his nation etc) ?
Edit, statement of the chinese coach
"The head coach of China's badminton team Li Yongbo told Chinese media he was responsible for his world championship duo Yu Yang and Wang Xiaoli's failure to compete for victory.
"As head coach, I owe the supporters of Chinese badminton and the Chinese TV audiences an apology," he was quoted as saying. "Chinese players failed to demonstrate the fine tradition and fighting spirit of the national team.
"It's me to blame."
Both the South Korea and Indonesia teams appealed the decision, but the Indonesians later withdrew theirs. China's delegation said it 'fully respected' the punishment and would launch an investigation into its badminton team."Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:27:15 |
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| Bigtony United States. August 02 2012 13:42. Posts 892 | Profile Blog # |
I can't believe people actually believe that it's ok to lose on purpose to fix a match, even when the rules explicitly forbid that. On top of that, they think that "losing is the optimal strategy to win."
No, it's fucking not. The optimal strategy to win is TO BE THE BEST. Dodging opponents to get to a medal round...I guess if that counts as winning for you?
1. Go to Olympics.
2. Cheat
3. Win bronze medal (MAYBE)
What the fuck strategy is that?
China cheated so that their two teams could dodge each other and in the end win more medals. Deliberate match fixing.
The other teams cheated to dodge China and shoot for a bronze. By doing so they gained an unfair advantage over teams that did not throw their games. You cannot decide to simply not play a round to save up your energy. Stamina/fitness is part of a tournament.
"The format encourages cheating" - that's the dumbest excuse I've ever heard. Every format encourages cheating of some kind, that's why there are rules against it.
"They don't owe the spectators anything" - absofuckinglutely wrong, are you serious? The players are sponsored by their countries and other organizations with the expectation that they will represent them well. They agree to participate in the Olympics in a way that will represent their country well. Deliberate match fixing and playing worse than a group of 5 year old children is not a good representation.
You might not LIKE that format, but it is very clear by the rules what is expected, and these players just took a shit on that. If you think "the tournament is to blame" you're a bad person and you should feel bad.
Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:42:43 |
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| Belisarius Australia. August 02 2012 13:43. Posts 1773 | Profile # |
This is completely the tournament organiser's fault.
The people who paid to watch those matches paid the organisers to arrange entertaining games for them to enjoy. The organisers failed in that by allowing a situation in which players on the court had no incentive to try. I'm startled that it can be seen any other way. Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:43:53 |
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 Carnivorous Sheep August 02 2012 13:44. Posts 8736 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 13:42 Bigtony wrote:
. You cannot decide to simply not play a round to save up your energy. Stamina/fitness is part of a tournament.
People swim at well below their potential in qualifiers/semis all the time, what's the difference? |
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| Wayra August 02 2012 13:49. Posts 171 | Profile Blog # |
This is completely the tournament organiser's fault.
The people who paid to watch those matches paid the organisers to arrange entertaining games for them to enjoy. The organisers failed in that by allowing a situation in which players on the court had no incentive to try. I'm startled that it can be seen any other way.
I agree completely.
I mean the people who argue the other way, I can never get them.
To me, it's like the abortion issue. I just can't undersand why some people would disagree that abortion is killing another being.Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:52:13 |
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| iiGreetings Canada. August 02 2012 13:50. Posts 546 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
this thread needed one post and one post only, thanks for making the first one worthwhile. |
| | Adapt and React I MKP, PartinG, CoCa <3 |
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| Bigtony United States. August 02 2012 13:50. Posts 892 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 13:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 13:42 Bigtony wrote:
. You cannot decide to simply not play a round to save up your energy. Stamina/fitness is part of a tournament.
People swim at well below their potential in qualifiers/semis all the time, what's the difference?
Not sure if serious? Because if you completely tank on your qualifier/semi you might not qualify at all? And if you do qualify, you can get a bad lane. It's significantly harder to win a swim event from any lane outside of 4/5/6. Conserving (playing conservatively) is different from tanking. The same applies in sprinting (might miss qualifying, can get a bad lane), gymnastics (you qualify conservatively but you have to make top 8), etc. Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:53:33 |
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| Doraemon Australia. August 02 2012 13:53. Posts 9574 | Profile Blog # |
| eedit: late Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:56:26 |
| | Do yourself a favour and just STFU |
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| ballasdontcry Canada. August 02 2012 13:55. Posts 541 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 11:36 Shikyo wrote:
I don't think there's anything wrong with dropping matches intentionally if you're playing to win. In my opinion it's up to the organizers to make the teams want to win by giving proper rewards for winning. In Ice Hockey for instance this stuff happens all the time and no one seems to notice or care.
when the news came out that Sweden threw matches in Turin (well after the fact obviously) from something Forsberg said in an interview in 2011, people did have quite a discussion about it, so i wouldn't say nobody cared. i'd imagine if he said it right after the round robin that there would be some noise.
it wouldn't have really mattered anyways, that 2006 Canadian team was goddamn awful, any of the top teams that year would've crushed them.Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:58:38 |
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| Count9 China. August 02 2012 13:58. Posts 3696 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 13:50 Bigtony wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 13:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On August 02 2012 13:42 Bigtony wrote:
. You cannot decide to simply not play a round to save up your energy. Stamina/fitness is part of a tournament.
People swim at well below their potential in qualifiers/semis all the time, what's the difference?
Not sure if serious? Because if you completely tank on your qualifier/semi you might not qualify at all? And if you do qualify, you can get a bad lane. It's significantly harder to win a swim event from any lane outside of 4/5/6. Conserving (playing conservatively) is different from tanking. The same applies in sprinting (might miss qualifying, can get a bad lane), gymnastics (you qualify conservatively but you have to make top 8), etc.
Throwing the last game is playing conservatively. They already won the games they needed to qualify so throwing the last game is akin to swimming much slower than you usually would for the last x meters in a race when on the turn you saw you had a good enough time to get top 3 lanes and then not winning your heat because of it so you get a lane 5 instead of 4. Nobody gives a shit about who wins qualifying heats and no one should give shit about who wins qualifying games, especially when the two teams playing have both qualified. It's not like if they thew the game then one team that should've gotten through to bracket didn't.Last edit: 2012-08-02 13:59:30 |
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| Doraemon Australia. August 02 2012 13:59. Posts 9574 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 13:42 Bigtony wrote:
You might not LIKE that format, but it is very clear by the rules what is expected, and these players just took a shit on that. If you think "the tournament is to blame" you're a bad person and you should feel bad.
who you to tell me i'm a bad person and i should feel bad simply because my ideals do not align with yours. |
| | Do yourself a favour and just STFU |
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