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| Zorkmid Canada. August 02 2012 02:06. Posts 3858 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 00:34 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
Do you know what the Olympics are actually about? Hint: it's not just winning.
It's about the spirit of competition and sport to bring the world together.
Hint: It's sure as fuck not about throwing matches. |
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| Grettin August 02 2012 02:07. Posts 20519 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:
Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
Do you mean in Starcraft? Foreigners do it just as much, for sure. Hint hint, Stephano vs Brat_Ok, Assembly tournament. |
| | "If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu |
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| Aim Here Scotland. August 02 2012 02:10. Posts 650 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 02:06 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 00:34 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
Do you know what the Olympics are actually about? Hint: it's not just winning.
It's about the spirit of competition and sport to bring the world together. Hint: It's sure as fuck not about throwing matches.
What about in the circumstances where competing (i.e. doing your best to win) and throwing matches are the same thing? |
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| Elroi Sweden. August 02 2012 02:11. Posts 3885 | Profile # |
Pathetic
Ban them for life |
| | "To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong |
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| Murlox France. August 02 2012 02:11. Posts 1084 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 02:03 MadNeSs wrote:I dont understand, why this is even a discussion, why they got dispelled. They went against the rules of the Olympic comite, in their own tournament. So if they lose (and just for the record they do it alot imo, just not as obv, and the tourney organisers have always looked past it) on purpose and the comite (I really hope that this is how it's spelled in english  ) doesnt like it, well then they deserve to get expelled, there's really no reason to argue about this. They went against the rules og the tourney, and now they're expelled, to bad. Let's just hope that in the future asians (mostly koreans and chinese) will stop doing this, since now they've seen that there can be consequentes for this. And I really hope they do because I'm sure they do it alot in every sport, even in Starcraft. Does anyone remember doing WCG (2009 or 2008, or something I forgot), where Stork and Whitera played like 4 tiebreakers and Stork just kept losing to him. Until he was like fuck it, the ties just didnt decide it so he could get through the right way. So he (most likely) played his best and won. And he obv (imo) just kept losing on purpose so that he wouldn't have to face Jaedong in the ro8, which he eventually had to. I swear koreans (mostly) do that all the time, and I've seen it in other sport too. I'm just glad it's finally had some consequences, since it's not very sportsmanshipy (if that's even a word lol?).
The fact is the rule is not a mathematical, nor binary one : it's not a clear. There are many types of rules. This one is highly subject to interpretation. Those are the worst rules. Large rules.
You kind of can put anything in it, you see. It's hard to even know if you are breaking it or not. It's a bliss only for lawyers, as you can talk your way out or in. |
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| silynxer Germany. August 02 2012 02:12. Posts 303 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 02:04 Aim Here wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:49 silynxer wrote:
On August 02 2012 01:44 wei2coolman wrote:
On August 02 2012 01:39 Snotling wrote:
It seems i have to reqoute the Olympic motto:
"The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."
so why is this even a discussion? They got what they deserved
Does fighting well not include using your brain? Everyone keeps quoting this whole olympic spirit stuff, but some how using your brain, and using strategy to win is now taboo? that's rather silly.
If your strategy to win includes breaking a rule and getting disqualified for it, you might want to use your brain and rethink your strategy.
Well it's a particularly bad rule. You have to try your best to win at an individual match, even when it hurts your chances at winning the tournament? Are these competitors supposed even to try to win the tournament proper, or is the tournament now meaningless? How does the referee objectively measure trying ones best? Won't the optimal strategy be now to pretend to try hard, but to always fluff the shots in a spectacular fashion, so that they can at least plausibly claim to be trying? How do you police the rule once word gets around about that? Won't this rule, in conjunction with this awful tournament system, result in an Olympic code of hypocrisy, where everyone has to lie to pretend that proper badminton matches are happening when they aren't? How does that fit in with the Olympic ideals? Questions, questions...
You can read the code of conduct for some answers. Especially relevant is 4.5 and 5.1. Now you will still say this is terrible and can result in ridiculous situations (which it can) but in this case it's as clear cut as it can possibly be (ok you can argue all day whether they "behaved in a manner severely damaging to the reputation of the sport" but if a continuously booing spectatorship is not a good sign of that, then I don't know what would qualify).
Slippery slopes are fun and all and we can hope that the next games will be organized differently but this was a very, very clear violation and the management of the teams should have known.
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| Zorkmid Canada. August 02 2012 02:13. Posts 3858 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 02:10 Aim Here wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:06 Zorkmid wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:34 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
Do you know what the Olympics are actually about? Hint: it's not just winning.
It's about the spirit of competition and sport to bring the world together. Hint: It's sure as fuck not about throwing matches.
What about in the circumstances where competing (i.e. doing your best to win) and throwing matches are the same thing?
If you don't want to play against the best teams, then you aren't competing. |
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| wei2coolman United States. August 02 2012 02:14. Posts 9735 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 02:13 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:10 Aim Here wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:06 Zorkmid wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:34 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
Do you know what the Olympics are actually about? Hint: it's not just winning.
It's about the spirit of competition and sport to bring the world together. Hint: It's sure as fuck not about throwing matches.
What about in the circumstances where competing (i.e. doing your best to win) and throwing matches are the same thing?
If you don't want to play against the best teams, then you aren't competing.
If you don't want to win, then you aren't competing. Notice how both hold true? |
| | Curse & Doublelift fanboi. |
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| Djagulingu August 02 2012 02:16. Posts 2870 | Profile Blog # |
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
That was exactly what they were doing. |
| | "BW&SC2 are like sex&masturbation. Sex is better but by masturbating, you have your money in your pocket and it still kind of does the job" Game, "Pretty good results for gsl players, they are showing they can compete with big guns" ElephantBaby |
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| Grebliv Iceland. August 02 2012 02:17. Posts 796 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 02:13 Zorkmid wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 02:10 Aim Here wrote:
On August 02 2012 02:06 Zorkmid wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:34 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
On August 02 2012 00:08 Zorkmid wrote:
Yea, but the people that spent their life savings to watch this shit were ripped off pretty bad.
Play to win, it's the fucking olympics.
Do you know what the Olympics are actually about? Hint: it's not just winning.
It's about the spirit of competition and sport to bring the world together. Hint: It's sure as fuck not about throwing matches.
What about in the circumstances where competing (i.e. doing your best to win) and throwing matches are the same thing?
If you don't want to play against the best teams, then you aren't competing.
You don't want to play a possible finals match in the ro16, it can mean the difference between a silver and an 8-16 finish. Why should someone ever want to win a game that places them in that situation.
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| Zorkmid Canada. August 02 2012 02:17. Posts 3858 | Profile Blog # | |
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 Xiphos Canada. August 02 2012 02:17. Posts 5732 | Profile Blog # |
| So the decision is final. Sucks for the Koreans. |
| | 2012 - Remember of the Fallen Heroes and Command the way to your victory. |
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| DeadBull Austria. August 02 2012 02:17. Posts 417 | Profile # |
Go home,
nobody needs athletes like you... |
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| jinorazi Korea (South). August 02 2012 02:21. Posts 4003 | Profile # |
what they were doing is only a loophole because they didnt want to face china early by winning.
its disgraceful against the spirit of the game, finding loophole is a pussy as way to do it no matter how you look at it, they were looking for the easiest route. you can say they were trying to win in the end but they were trying to win by being sneaky. have honor, give it your best.
(one can give best and other lose on purpose, i know, no fairness but who gives a fuck, fuck those mofos)Last edit: 2012-08-02 02:21:58 |
| | age: 84 - location: california - sex: 잘함 |
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| wei2coolman United States. August 02 2012 02:23. Posts 9735 | Profile # |
| I find this hilarious that no one has mentioned Olympic Swimming. How about those swimming pre-lims and those heats? Are the swimmers constantly trying to do their best to get that new WR or straight up win those heats? nope, the do just enough to qualify, yet no olympic committee ban hammer swinging their way. |
| | Curse & Doublelift fanboi. |
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| Monochromatic United States. August 02 2012 02:26. Posts 635 | Profile Blog # |
Look, if they lost they will do better. Really think that is the end of it.
They played there best in the tournament as a whole. |
| | MC: "Guys I need your support! iam poor make me nerd baller" __________________________________________RIP Violet |
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| scsnow Slovenia. August 02 2012 02:26. Posts 413 | Profile # |
This was some sort of qualification round?
What about running e.g. 100m where in qualifications rounds many don't run as fast as they can and they run just fast enough just to to qualify for the finals.
Or basketball where they probably don't play to achieve maximum score difference but only to win to gain points to make it to playoffs.
Or tell me that ain't happening.
It's tournament system fault and if such stupidity isn't directly covered by the rules, live with it, don't DQ. |
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| Gowerly United Kingdom. August 02 2012 02:27. Posts 226 | Profile Blog # |
For the people saying "Play to Win". Win what? The match you are playing or a Gold Medal?
In the end, they're judged by their country more on whether they win a gold rather than whether they won a seeding match.
It's a problem with not playing matches simultaneously and allowing systems where matches don't mean being knocked out of the tournament.
How far are they going to go with it, though?
Watch Bolt showing off in the heats, that's not trying your hardest, either. |
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| silynxer Germany. August 02 2012 02:28. Posts 303 | Profile # |
On August 02 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I find this hilarious that no one has mentioned Olympic Swimming. How about those swimming pre-lims and those heats? Are the swimmers constantly trying to do their best to get that new WR or straight up win those heats? nope, the do just enough to qualify, yet no olympic committee ban hammer swinging their way.
You could of course look up the code of conduct for swimming competitions and see if they have similar rules in place (I actually don't know and it doesn't really matter either way to me but without doing so you are just rambling). |
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| bloodmeat United States. August 02 2012 02:29. Posts 160 | Profile # |
I don't think you can place the blame squarely on the tournament. While they should have a format that discourages players from cheating the system, it was still the player's choices to act dishonorably and against the spirit of the competition in order to get an advantage. I think it's sad that we're willing to defend cheaters and instead place blame fully on the tournament. Where do you draw the line in how far someone can go in order to win?
I think you have to have trust in your players to act with honor and integrity, and not resort to cheating the system in order to win.
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| | Your mom is ruining esports. |
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