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| vOdToasT Sweden. August 03 2012 15:16. Posts 1567 | Profile Blog # |
This guide will not be about an in game strategy, but I still think it belongs in the strategy forum because it's an approach to learning and improving at StarCraft.
In 2009 - 2010, I was a B+ level Protoss user. I recently came back and switched to Zerg, and after only a few weeks using this technique, I reached B-. I am currently rising in rating and expect to reach B soon. I improved much faster now than I did before, even after I had already learned the fundamentals and was focusing solely on strategy.
The jump from C+ to B- took much longer back then than it did now using this method. Also, this guide is not intended for complete beginners. It is intended for people who have reached a certain rank, but have never managed to get further.
First, you make an account normally. Play completely seriously. Play to win, using the strategies you are most comfortable with. Pick the maps you are most comfortable with. When you reach a point where opponents start getting really hard, you make another account. If your highest rank was C-, stop here.
Now, you will play on a different type of map, using different types of strategies. For example, if you are a Protoss user who has trouble with PvZ on 4 player maps because the Zerg takes a fast third, then a fourth behind it, and turtles until hive, you would have picked maps where that wasn't possible on your first account. Maps like Blue storm, that force the Zerg to fight your army head on with lair tech.
On your second account, you will only play on 4 player maps. This will force you to deal with that Zerg style. You can also try going corsair reaver and other strategies that you are uncomfortable with.
If you're a zerg user, you may have been avoiding maps where the hive turtle style was impossible. Now is the time to play on maps you have a hard time on, and to do new strategies. If you were relying on timing attacks and all ins, play more safe and standard. If you were defending until hive, start playing other styles like neo sauron zerg.
You may be wondering why you can't just do all of this on one account. The reason is that if you start branching out to other maps and styles, you will lose games, which will bring you down in rating, making you play against worse players. If you then go back to your main style / map choice, you will roll them over easily. By playing on two accounts, you can face the best opposition possible on your strongest map, using your most refined strategy, while at the same time learning other styles and maps vs the best opposition possible for you while you are on a lower level of play due to being handicapped by a map or style you're less comfortable with. Furthermore, while attempting to learn new strategies, it can be very beneficial to play vs worse players.
This podcast by Day9 explains why: www.teamliquid.net/staff/intrigue/Day90006PlayAgainstWorsePlay.mp3 Transcript:+ Show Spoiler +Hey, what's up, everyone? This is Sean Plott, a.k.a. Day[9], and today I want to talk about why you should play against worse players. Now, I know 90% of you hear that and you just scream, "Blasphemy! Crucify Day[9]! He's dead wrong! You should only play against the pros!" People argue that, somehow, by playing against worse players, you will stagnate in this disgusting cesspool of newbies, and that you'll never learn about "gosu builds" and "gosu tricks" so that you can become "gosu x2". Obviously, though, I'm not saying that the path to improvement involves finding ten people who suck and only playing against them. And I'm not even arguing that you shouldn't play against players who are somewhat better than you, if not way better than you. However, I really want to emphasize that, not only is it OK to play against players worse than you, but, in fact, it is an integral component to your improvement. It is critical that you regularly play against players that are worse than you, to improve to higher and higher levels.
With that said, in this talk I want to do the following:
First, I want to spend some time talking about this "common mindset" I was referring to, this idea that you should only play against good players. Second, I want to take some time to break that argument down and demonstrate why that doesn't quite hold up; that is, I want to illustrate the flaws in that line of reasoning. Third, I want to spend some time backing the logic of why it's good to play against worst players, and then last, I want to wrap everything up by giving a concrete example, by kind of walking you through one of my own personal experiences of improvement, and why playing against worse players was so important.
Let's go back to the beginning: let's start off by talking about what the current mindset of playing worse players is. One of the big things I hear people say a lot is that when you play against a worse player, you can simply have fundamentals that are strong enough and end up winning without having the correct strategy. So, for example, you log onto ICCup, you play against a D-level player, and he just has so few units that, really, it doesn't matter what you do. You just walk out, and you win every single time. Since you're winning so easily, your opponent isn't forcing you to change. He's putting no pressure on you to win; he's putting no pressure on you to adjust your play to something better.
Kind of along the same line of reasoning, people say that, therefore, you should play against the best players you can: that when you play against a truly good opponent, he'll be crushing you so badly that you'll start to realize that a lot of your tricks don't work, and you'll start to see which ones are remaining somewhat effective, and then you'll end up converging towards a better style of play.
For the most part, though, this whole view can be summed up with the idea of, "I want a challenge. I want to force myself to overcome some obstacle," because that's what people's idea of improving is: overcoming obstacles. With that in mind, I want to take the opportunity to move on to part II of this audio.
Let's break down this argument and see where some potential issues are. In Starcraft, build orders and styles play a key role in play, and a lot of times people will work on one style and then, for whatever reason, want to try a different style. If you're trying this new style for the first time ever, it makes no logical sense to try it against the best player possible. You want to go out and play it a few times and get the opportunity to run through your build from start to finish and build up some comfort with it, and then, that way, you'll start to say where your advantages and where your disadvantages are. A huge danger is that a lot of times players will dabble in certain styles, but they'll be playing against players who are too good, and these good players will crush these new styles, and then what happens is the player thinks to himself, "Ah. These new styles didn't work out so well. Look how badly I got crushed. As a result, that player ends up mislearning, because all his attempts at these new styles have resulted in failure.
Moreover, let's say you did stick with one style; let's say you really wanted to work something out. If you're playing against a better player, you just don't get the opportunity to become comfortable. The better player is spending so much time convincing you that a big attack is going to come here (and doesn't) or that a big drop is going to happen that doesn't, that a lot of times you start getting into your own head--there's these mind games that are going on that totally throw you off. On a less complicated note, sometimes, just the fact that his army is moving around the map, in good patterns, can make you feel so pressured that, you know, you forget overlords, you stop looking at the mini-map, and you might even get thrown off your build a little bit.
Most importantly, though, good players are very good at hiding their weaknesses. There's that Protoss player who will have two cannons at his front and the Zerg player will feel too intimidated to run in with zerglings, when he totally could have. I mean, how many games have you played when you go look at the replay and you say, "Oh man, if only I'd attacked here, I would have won!" Against better players, that thought oftentimes never happens when it should. You'll watch a replay, and at time x, if you attacked you would have won--but as you're watching the replay, that just doesn't register. You see the situation, and you think to yourself, "No, no, I definitely couldn't have attacked."
So clearly, in terms of learning, if you're only trying to play against the best of the best, or even players who are slightly better than you, you not only end up learning in the wrong direction by discarding potentially good strategies, but the strategy that you are choosing to work on, the build order you're doing every game: you might miss out on the opportunities that are present in that build, and you might not even be executing it as well as you could be. With that in mind, let me move on to the most important part of this audio.
Part III: Why it's important to play against worse players.
This entire section can be summed up with the following: Against better players, you learn what not to do. Against weaker players, you learn what to do. There's a great discussion about this in David Sirlin's book, Playing to Win. And what he says--which is true across a huge number of competitive games--is that good players are very good at hiding their weakness. Good players don't look weak when they actually are. Weak players, on the other hand, wear their weaknesses and exploits on their forehead--you know exactly how to crush that player. So what you want to do is you want to play against some worse players and see where those huge weaknesses are, or those glaring holes are, and start to abuse those. And then, as you start playing against better and better players, you still attempt those same abuses. And you adjust them to see if they work--or to try to force them to work.
It's true that playing against only good players will force you to readjust your strategies and your tactics and your tricks. The problem is that if you're only playing against good players, you're not expanding that enough; you're not expanding out to new builds and new tactics and new tricks; you're kind of sitting in this stagnant pool. And the problem with this is something I call working yourself into a logical corner.
Players stuck in "logical corners" are oftentimes the ones you see who just teeter between C+ and B-, with a record of like 150-180. And they just play tons and tons of games, and you look at their APM and they're fast players, so clearly they have the hand-speed, but for some reason, they just can't seem to broach[sic] those higher levels. You'll hear them say things like "No, I can't do that because I'll lose to this, and then I can't attack here, and then I have to make these-all defenses now, or else I'll lose to this"--and the problem is, though they've had experiences where these things were true, it doesn't make them rules that have to dictate the rest of their play for the rest of their life.
This kind of player should stop and say to himself, "What are some big problems that I'm having?" For example, let's say in Protoss vs. Zerg: "I don't feel like I'm attacking enough; I feel like every time I want to, I either get scared or I convince myself through some past game that I can't and that it won't work." So let's say that this player has been early-expanding in Protoss vs. Zerg and going corsair/reaver into mass ground--sort of the Bisu style of Protoss vs. Zerg. Let's suppose then he wants to be more aggressive: he should drop down to D-level and he should say, "OK. I'm going to start really harassing at this stage of the game."
Let's say he starts harassing at stage x or time x, just to throw, you know, a variable out there. Let's suppose that against D-level players he gets absolutely smashed when he does this: his harassment doesn't work, it's totally defended, and he thinks to himself, "Wow, that clearly is not a good idea, if it's already losing to D-players." However, let's say he readjusts it, and starts doing it a little later than time x, and he says, "Wow, I have so many more corsairs! But now I'm starting to do a huge amount of damage. In fact, now I'm winning games almost way too easily." What's great now, is that this player can then work his way up until he gets that time just right, and then, when he's back at that C+/B- level, he now has this time-frame where he's abusing this corsair/reaver aggressive harass. It might be a time that he never even thought of or saw in his previous games, because he was so scared of so many Zerg units.
The fact that he's abusing this reaver/corsair timing might help him bump from B- to B. But most importantly, he will gain a huge amount of confidence in Protoss vs. Zerg now, because all of a sudden, Zerg doesn't feel invincible. And that confidence will show in his play; he will play much more comfortably with his style, and that comfort might be what helps bring him from B to B+.
In short, it's always very useful to alternate between playing against weaker players and playing against stronger players. Playing against the weaker players will allow you to flesh out your ideas and see new opportunities that you couldn't before. And then you'll want to take those ideas and you'll want to test them against better players, once you're really solid. And once you've tested them, that's how you adjust them and change them and choose what works and doesn't. Alternating is what keeps the mind fresh and makes sure that you're always learning new things and not working yourself into some dreaded "logical corner".
I'd like to finish up this audio recording by sharing a personal story of mine: an experience where I played against worse players and I ended up improving far more than I would have had I just stuck with playing very, very skilled players. A few years ago, I was preparing for the WCG tournament, and this is when they had removed Estrella as a map from the map pool and they put in Peaks of Baekdu. So now the maps were Gaia, Azalea, Paranoid Android, and Peaks of Baekdu, so since WCG was coming up, I was naturally only playing on those four maps. And PGTour (or ICCup--I still tend to call it PGTour) was really, really useful, because that was one of the maps of the week, so I could always get people to play me, and it was against random opponents, so I was getting a huge variety of styles, so again: just totally normal, preparing-for-tournament style stuff.
However, I encountered a huge problem, because the first few weeks, the maps of the weeks were Azalea, Gaia, and Paranoid, the old three WCG maps. And on Week Four, I'd worked my way up to A-level, but the new Map of the Week was Peaks of Baekdu--a map that I had never played any games on. So when I began, I started by taking builds I liked on other maps and trying to translate them onto Peaks of Baekdu, and even though it felt kind of OK, I still got smashed by all these other A-level players. And in fact, I started to lose almost every single game, and I started to try different builds, and whackier strategies, and literally nothing was working.
And I remember I had just dropped down to A-, and I encountered a player, and we ended up playing about ten games, and of the ten games, I lost seven of them. And I remember that it just felt so hard, and even the wins I did get didn't really feel satisfying: I kind of had this {shudder} feeling about Peaks of Baekdu. And there came a point where I was getting close to dropping down to B+, that I said to myself, "I really just shouldn't even be playing against these A-level players. I'm clearly not good enough at Peaks to be here. And I'm not even learning anything. I'm just losing and getting pissed off."
Since school had just ended that week, I created a new account at D-level, and started to slowly work my way up again. So I was playing tons of Peaks of Baekdu--I was actually playing probably like 12 hours a day--and I started to really see what was good about the map and what sort of abuses there were, and I watched a whole lot of VODs, and formulated builds, and got to practice them against these weak players. And some of the builds that I started off with felt really uncomfortable even against the D-level players, and again: I immediately said to myself, "I'm totally not going to do this." And then, I converged to the style I really liked, that felt really strong, and I worked my way all the way back up to A- by the end of the week.
And when I was A-, something amazing happened: that player who I previously went 3-7 against, I encountered him again, and we were going to play another set of games together. And it had only been a week, but I had had a huge amount of time to sort of reformulate my play against these weaker players. And when I played against him, he was doing the same sorts of styles that he was doing before, but I ended up crushing him, like eight games in a row. And in fact, in those games? It felt so effortless. All his units felt slower and stupid, and his entire build felt glaringly flawed, and there were all these exploits that I abused all game long, and when his big attack came out, I had like five times as many units as he did.
In fact, in every single one of those games, I never felt like I was going to lose at any point in time. And that, right there, is probably the best feeling in Starcraft. Because it's really difficult to get an absolute measure of how good you are or how much you are improving, because even statistics like your PGTour or ICCup rank--that kind of varies depending on who you're playing against and whatnot. But if you get the opportunity to play the same player twice in a short period of time, and the second time you play him you feel overwhelmingly better, you suddenly realize that you have improved. You have taken your play to the next level and have left him behind.
The way I was able to do that was by playing against bad players. I reset my account and it allowed me to really see at a very, very basic level what was going right and what was going wrong. And then, once I had all this sorted out in my mind, I had the period of time from the C level up to the A- level to become comfortable with this build, to work out all the nuances and all the subtleties. Moreover, the style of play I developed was something I would never have seen just playing at the A-/A levels, constantly losing and saying to myself, "Oh, I've got to suck it up and, you know, just try to deal with these losses and learn." Only by dropping down to the D-level play was I able to actually see things much more clearly. As a result, Peaks of Baekdu became, eventually, my best of all the WCG maps, and actually still remains one of my favorite maps of all time.
In short: I want all of you to remember that by playing against bad players, you end up learning what to do: you end up seeing the true advantages and disadvantages of your play. And then you should take what you learn and test it against better players. It's always good to be bouncing back [and forth] between worse and better players, and in fact, if you can get that range of play to be right around your skill level, like players slightly worse than you and players slightly better than you, then you'll find yourself skyrocketing up, in terms of improvement, and skyrocketing up to higher ranks on PGTour.
So, I hope this audio rant was useful. Good luck, everyone. Cheers.
I'm going to give you some examples for how this has helped me. I'm a Zerg user who plays Protoss vs other Zergs because I dislike ZvZ. In ZvT I often go crazy zerg (muta ling into hive with no lurkers). If this was all I did, I'd be screwed if the maps of the week changed to maps where this style was inferior to the standard style. I would also have a disadvantage playing vs the same player multiple times in a row, so on another account I play the standard style, on maps where the standard style is superior.
The end result is that I maximize the efficiency of my training of both styles, and in the end, no matter what map I am forced to play on (due to map of the week or tournament map pools), I can pick the best strategy for the map (and for my opponent).
I also do the same thing for ZvP. On some maps, you can take a fast third, a 4th behind it, and defend your 4 bases while you tech to hive. On other maps, you have to fight with lurker ling hydra for a while, and then add defilers, with ultralisks being very delayed. On some maps, both styles are viable.
This method works for every race. Protoss can alternate between corsair reaver and reaver-less strategies, and experiment with fast reavers. Terran can alternate between mech and bio (picking the best maps for both styles, of course) in TvZ. If all you ever do is play bio and you're forced to play on Destination, you may have wished you learned mech.
Even if all you play is Fighting Spirit and you have one strategy for each matchup, doing this can still help you. You learn so much more about the way the races and matchups work by looking at it from different angles. It reveals new facts that can actually help you when you play your original standard strategy. For example, if you learn the lair based ZvP style, you will know when it's good. On which maps, in which situations, etc. On a map where both lair based strategies and fast hive are viable, this will let you decide to do it in reaction to your protoss opponent, even if you originally intended to turtle until hive. Sometimes one style is just a better answer to what your opponent is doing. You have to be flexible! Playing a different style also makes you look at a matchup from a different angle, which can reveal a weakness in the enemy race that your original strategy can exploit, thus making you better at your main strategy. Also, it's fun. You get to play StarCraft differently without messing up your main accounts ranking.
Summary: If you are C- level while playing one style, but C playing another, play one style on one account and another style on another account. This way you can train more efficiently. If you just switched style, you would start falling down to C-. If you then switched back halfway down, you would be playing vs worse opponents and winning easily with the strategy you use the most and are most comfortable with, which isn't good for improvement.
Please comment and give me your thoughts, wether you agree or not. Criticism is welcome. :DLast edit: 2012-08-03 19:29:25 |
| | If you see an amazing game, or moment within a game, on any Twitch.tv Brood War stream, PM me a link to the archived vod, tell me when it happens, and I'll upload that part as a clip to Youtube. |
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| [sc1f]eonzerg Spain. August 03 2012 16:39. Posts 1491 | Profile Blog # |
4/5 good job  |
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| EnjoYmE Germany. August 03 2012 17:37. Posts 211 | Profile # |
| nowadays we need to play an account to the point where are no opponents and start a new one -.- (just my iccup impression) |
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| SnowFantasy August 03 2012 18:10. Posts 3658 | Profile Blog # |
| Yeah, I do this kind of thing and it is great. |
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| vOdToasT Sweden. August 03 2012 18:47. Posts 1567 | Profile Blog # |
On August 03 2012 17:37 EnjoYmE wrote: nowadays we need to play an account to the point where are no opponents and start a new one -.- (just my iccup impression)
You can do this on Fish, too. You certainly do not need to make a new account just to get games on that server. |
| | If you see an amazing game, or moment within a game, on any Twitch.tv Brood War stream, PM me a link to the archived vod, tell me when it happens, and I'll upload that part as a clip to Youtube. |
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| Flip9 Germany. August 03 2012 18:57. Posts 151 | Profile # |
| I have an account where I try new things out and it helps^^ |
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mca64[KDV] Poland. August 03 2012 19:44. Posts 463 | Profile # |
| vOddy is that You? This zerg had not common build vs terran |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/mca64%5BKDV%5D |
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| vOdToasT Sweden. August 03 2012 19:51. Posts 1567 | Profile Blog # |
On August 03 2012 19:44 mca64[KDV] wrote: vOddy is that You? This zerg had not common build vs terran
Yes |
| | If you see an amazing game, or moment within a game, on any Twitch.tv Brood War stream, PM me a link to the archived vod, tell me when it happens, and I'll upload that part as a clip to Youtube. |
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Sayle United Kingdom. August 03 2012 22:37. Posts 2720 | Profile # |
On August 03 2012 17:37 EnjoYmE wrote: nowadays we need to play an account to the point where are no opponents and start a new one -.- (just my iccup impression)
And if you have a hard time keeping track of your accounts, just start a team for them! |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390936 | |
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| stambe Bulgaria. August 03 2012 23:06. Posts 452 | Profile # |
On August 03 2012 18:57 Flip9 wrote: I have an account where I try new things out and it helps^^
+1 and also the pressure is less when you explore different thing or things you aren't comfortable on a 2nd acc and allows you to learn them faster, while not thinking about screwing your main acc. I've been trying this for a while but never delved into it too much. Nice to see someone explaining it the way the OP did. 5/5 !
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mca64[KDV] Poland. August 04 2012 00:17. Posts 463 | Profile # |
| i have one account, no pressure at all (even when im C and play vs D, there is a risk to lost a lot of points, but no risk no fun! Or when i play vs B+ and higher) |
| | http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/mca64%5BKDV%5D |
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| LRM)TechnicS Bulgaria. August 04 2012 01:43. Posts 978 | Profile # |
On August 03 2012 22:37 Sayle wrote: Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 17:37 EnjoYmE wrote: nowadays we need to play an account to the point where are no opponents and start a new one -.- (just my iccup impression)
And if you have a hard time keeping track of your accounts, just start a team for them!
lmwtfao |
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| sheaRZerg United States. August 04 2012 03:47. Posts 512 | Profile Blog # |
Haha...I did that. I used to make new accounts whenever I though of a new name I liked. |
| | "Dude, just don't listen to what I say; listen to what I mean." -Sean Plott |
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| ninazerg United States. August 04 2012 04:54. Posts 1850 | Profile Blog # |
On August 04 2012 03:47 sheaRZerg wrote:Haha...I did that. I used to make new accounts whenever I though of a new name I liked.
I just have one account where I added all my alternate names as friends. |
| | Holder of Excalibur, savior of Eria. | |
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| CaffeineFree-_- United States. August 04 2012 08:46. Posts 641 | Profile Blog # |
Ah mah gawd. G2G.voddy. I remember when my BW career took off and I shot from C- to C+/B- i ran into you on ladder and got stomped. Was the first time in a while I got completely wrecked. I remember every aspect of the game too lol.
Man that was around junior year in high school too. Shiet good times.. |
| | We say we love flowers, yet we pluck them. We say we love trees, yet we cut them down. And people still wonder why some are afraid when told they are loved |
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| vOdToasT Sweden. August 04 2012 11:16. Posts 1567 | Profile Blog # |
On August 04 2012 08:46 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: Ah mah gawd. G2G.voddy. I remember when my BW career took off and I shot from C- to C+/B- i ran into you on ladder and got stomped. Was the first time in a while I got completely wrecked. I remember every aspect of the game too lol.
Man that was around junior year in high school too. Shiet good times..
Lol
Nice :DLast edit: 2012-08-04 11:18:55 |
| | If you see an amazing game, or moment within a game, on any Twitch.tv Brood War stream, PM me a link to the archived vod, tell me when it happens, and I'll upload that part as a clip to Youtube. |
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| TheShimmy United States. August 08 2012 07:10. Posts 1723 | Profile # |
I believe I may start doing this. Although it truly isnt beneficial until reaching about C- or at least high D+.
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| | Hyvaa #1 Fan. Gogo STX, Dear, Bogus, Classic, and Mini! Always a BW fan! |
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| pigmanbear Angola. August 08 2012 23:48. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # |
I suppose I could do with a second D- account so I can fail in parallel  |
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| EnjoYmE Germany. August 09 2012 04:03. Posts 211 | Profile # |
sounds like a good method  |
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