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| Keirathi United States. August 05 2012 13:19. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
/in
I will not be banned in the first game Bluelightz is hosting.'
I love me some DF :oLast edit: 2012-08-05 13:20:03 |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 05 2012 13:26. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
| Its rather appropriate though. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 06 2012 08:59. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 08:56 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 08:52 Mordanis wrote:
The "in punishment" applied to the entire thing. I also can't promise that I won't be shot for the duration of the game, but I can promise that reasonable hosts will have no reason to sexually harass nor shoot me for cheating or inactivity or anything else. That being said, if Bluelightz happens to be passing through Arizona and goes a touch insane and finds me, I also can't promise that he won't force-feed me black pudding. I can promise that it won't be for breaking any rules or inactivity.
Yeah baby, that feels good. I put on my robe and wizard hat.
Scary. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 00:56. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
Mornin' everyone! 10 am start is going to be weird. I'll have to work hard to be around early enough.
I'm really looking forward to a bit of the dwarf fortress staple -- !!FUN!!
@ShiaoPi: The point is, that after the first 2 mislynches it puts you in LYLO. Then you can vote 2 people again, and as long as 1 of the two people you vote that last day is scum, you win. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 01:33. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
| Sciberbia: any reason that 6v1 and 3v1 are the only places double lynch could work, or were those just the only 2 examples you mentions but there are in fact other ones? |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 05:15. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 08 2012 04:28 HiroPro wrote:
Eh I'd only ever consider double lynching in sciberbia's 3/1 scenario (or a 2/1 if it ever comes up). Anywhere else I don't see the benefit.
Thoughts on using Tracker as an innocent child style role instead (if we have one)? It's fairly worthless in this setup since it can only track medic/RB and mafia will know whether or not a tracker is present.
Why would you want to guarantee one of our only 2 blue roles' death? Tracker might be "fairly useless", but its certainly more useful alive than dead.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 09:02. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 08 2012 08:40 DoYouHas wrote:
P.S. Could someone explain the innocent child thing to me? I looked up the term on mafiascumwiki and it didn't seem to apply to this game.
I think the general idea is that the watcher/tracker could claim early, and by virtue of scum generally not want to trade 1-for-1 by counterclaiming, that the watcher/tracker could be confirmed town for the rest of their time alive.
I don't feel like it was a particularly good proposal though. If the watcher/tracker claims early, now either his lifespan is limited, or he will be roleblocked for eternity. As as "useless" as they might be, they are always more useful alive and getting results than dead or getting perma-blocked.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 09:02. Posts 3618 | Profile # | |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 12:28. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 08 2012 11:11 Forumite wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 10:43 sciberbia wrote:
@forumite
Can you more fully explain your initial read on shiaopi, your current read on shiaopi, and why your read has changed? That last post makes it look like you have completely thrown out your initial suspicions on shiaopi. Is this solely because people such as prplhz have disagreed with you?
Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 06:37 Forumite wrote:
On August 08 2012 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well well, let's get started!
Skip policytalking, we all know lurkers suck, you should not lie etc. etc. LiquidTomb's fallen demand justice, so let's go hammer some goblins.
When I read that I see someone who is rushing a greeting to show that he´s here, doesn´t say anything on his own views and wants to shut down policydiscussion. It´s the very first post of the game, and he wants us to NOT talk about the only thing there is to talk about.
Basically I thought I saw some kind of anti-town motivation here. I´ve gotten good reads from initial posts in other games, so I thought I had found something here. Current read: Nullread. I´ve thrown out my initial scumread, it was probably just the one odd post, especially as ShiaoPi showed that he was willing to discuss the setup just a few posts after the initial incriminating post. I changed my mind because I knew I wasn´t getting anywhere. I didn´t have much to start with, and I got conflicting reads the first time I reexamined the case. That HiroPro, marvel and prplhz spoke up against me making accusations and/or against the actual case mattered a lot too, because I doubted my read if none of the other "veterans" agreed, and because I didn´t want to distract the thread more than I had allready done. That´s about it, I´m back to square one on ShiaoPi.
So do you think for yourself, or are you going to let HiroPro, marv, and prplhz do the thinking for you for the rest of the game as well?
Do I think your initial read was suspicious? Maybe a tiny bit. It was really early, but at least you were taking a solid stand.
I understand changing your mind can happen. I've changed my mind a lot in the past. But your reasoning for changing your mind is bogus. "Because the 'vets' questioned me" is just flat out boggling. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 13:07. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
Ok:
On August 08 2012 10:08 sciberbia wrote:Shiaopi
Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well well, let's get started!
Skip policytalking, we all know lurkers suck, you should not lie etc. etc. LiquidTomb's fallen demand justice, so let's go hammer some goblins.
I agree with Forumite that this post seems off. Shiaopi is no vet, yet he starts off the thread with this bravado, confidence, and authority. It just doesn't seem to fit with the more reserved Shiaopi I remember from NMM XIV. I see this post as a conscious attempt to look bold, which fits in more with scum goals than town goals.
I dunno if I buy this point very much. Its been what...3, maybe 4? months since XIV. I didn't go back to check, but assuming his gameplay hasn't changed in that amount of time. I would expect someone to get more confident the longer the are around mafia games. Hell, I've gradually gotten more confident in just the last month of being around TLMafia.
On August 08 2012 10:08 sciberbia wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
On August 08 2012 05:39 ShiaoPi wrote:
@HiroPro:
Seeing as you seem to want a tracker to claim at some point, how do you plan to confirm him (like an innocent child would be)? I don't think we would get mod-confirmation for a tracker and therefore scum could fakeclaim just as well. Kind of defeats the entire purpose you had when you try to confirm a townie via claiming.
On August 08 2012 06:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
@risk:
It's more the general concept of Hiro to use a tracker claim as means of confirming town that I am against, not against claiming in general, but scum can easily counterclaim so it won't work that way.
Shiaopi's analysis of HiroPro's innocent child proposal really doesn't sit well with me. He objects to the innocent child plan on the grounds that the tracker wouldn't even be confirmed town because scum might counterclaim.
Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 06:36 ShiaoPi wrote:
While it would be sub-optimal play for scum to trade 1 for 1 that early, you cannot dismiss the possibility.
This is the part I have an issue with. He admits that it would actually be suboptimal for scum to counterclaim, but says that you should consider the possibility anyway. This suggests to me that he was just nitpicking the plan for the sake of nitpicking the plan. Why would townie Shiaopi object to a plan on the grounds that scum will play suboptimally and defeat the plan? Shouldn't he be assuming scum plays optimally? I'd really like other people's opinions on this point, because I might be biased by my own view of the innocent child proposal.
You're right. We *SHOULD* assume that mafia are going to play optimally. However, I can't find any scum motive by saying they might play suboptimally. Maybe you could clarify why you think its scummy?
Nitpicking just to nitpick is suspicious, but I've seen tons of townies do it too. Not sure if its enough for me to think he is scum yet, but enough that I'll keep a closer eye on him.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 08 2012 13:08. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
| EBWOP: I didn't go back to check, but assuming his gameplay hasn't changed in that amount of time is folly |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 01:36. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 09 2012 00:50 marvellosity wrote:
you misread: scib's case = Forumite, not scib AND forumite. i.e. I want people to be discussing Forumite (something you have avoided doing three times already on this page) but you were my current strongest read.
Clear?
Not clear at all.
Why do you want people talking about one case, while you're voting for a different one? That makes so little sense that I can't wrap my head around it :o |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 01:41. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
| I read the above. I still don't really "get" it. You have some circumstantial evidence that CL is scum. Great! But how does talking about Forumite further your case against CL, whom at this point you believe is scum? |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 01:54. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 09 2012 01:43 marvellosity wrote:
my case against CL does not need to be furthered.
I am unsure about aspects of Forumite which is why I particularly want it discussed.
Now why don't you actually do so instead of nitpicking?
I'm not nitpicking. I honestly think you're not making any sense. You don't want to get your scumread lynched, but instead want to talk about Forumite, and you try to discredit me for standing up to you about it.
About Forumite: I really don't have much to add. He's said some dumb things and been stupidly wishy-washy, but I have a hard time believing scum would be so openly bad this early on day1. Not that its impossible, but I've never seen a scum be so transparent this early.
And you dismissed it, but basically admitting that he was going to be sheeped by the "vets" still completely boggles me mind. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 02:11. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
I'm not going to get into a stupid flame war with you.
You're right about YourHarry, but that was exactly how he played town as well so it made some modicum of sense for him to play like that. I'll go look at Normal Mini though, since I don't know anything about prplhz. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 02:42. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
@Marv: oh yea, I remember this game. I missed the first day or two of it, but read the later days.
So point taken, scum can play really..."badly" on day1. How often does it happen though? I can link you to a lot more examples where the person with the most Scummy Marks on day1 was actually a townie.
This is part of why I always hate about the day1 lynch. Do I just vote the person who has the most scummy points? Or do I WIFOM around it because playing badly as scum just doesn't make sense most of the time? |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 03:01. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 09 2012 02:51 marvellosity wrote:
If you're not gonna lynch someone for playing scummily day 1, what are you going to lynch for?
That IS the problem, isn't it?
In I Can't Believe, Vivax was easily the "scummiest" person day1. But his play really fit his town meta (and he was a blue), so I went with DropBear who I felt was playing scummily (and actually WAS scum), but in much less obvious ways.
But in NMM XXII, I went with the scummiest player in Golbat. I was 100% wrong and lynched a blue.
So, I don't know what the best way to make the decision on who to vote for is. Forumite is the most obviously scummy so far in this game, but my personal past experiences with day1 lynches have left me gunshy towards voting the most obvious scum.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 04:45. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 09 2012 04:34 Forumite wrote:
@mordanis
You still fill your posts with fluff. It makes you look bad and makes it harder to understand what you mean. I don't want you to defend yourself about this, it's done, but if your scumhunting looks like the last post then I'm going to vote to have you lynched.
Not that I disagree with you that his posts have fluff, but take a look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315&user=137393
This is just his posting style. He always used a lot of words to get his point across in that game. I don't necessarily condone the practice, because his posts were generally hard to read, but to blindly condemn him for it is just as bad. All it takes is a little research to see that this isn't some new scheme he's using to try to pull the rug over our eyes. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 04:54. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
| @ShiaoPi: And you. You obs'd that game. You should know that his posting style fits with his general playstyle, so using that as a basis to vote him is silly. Do you think the content is different? Do you just want him to change his playstyle? Or are you a scum and know that he was almost an easy mislynch because of his verbosity in XXII and you think you can argue good enough to get it this time? |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. August 09 2012 05:37. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On August 09 2012 05:12 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 04:54 Keirathi wrote:
@ShiaoPi: And you. You obs'd that game. You should know that his posting style fits with his general playstyle, so using that as a basis to vote him is silly. Do you think the content is different? Do you just want him to change his playstyle? Or are you a scum and know that he was almost an easy mislynch because of his verbosity in XXII and you think you can argue good enough to get it this time?
you pick many holes but have yet to take a proper stance care to do so?
On Mord? Not particularly, no.
His posts are extremely verbose, but so were his posts in XXII. 100% Null tell
The whole policy vs heuristics thing was a misunderstanding that I believe you cleared up. They just aren't the same thing.
Nothing he has done so far jumps out at me as particularly scummy. Both of those things are very similar to townie Mord in XXII, which Shiao obs'd, which was why I questioned him. I find that much more scummy than anything Mord has done to this point. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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