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| endy China. August 06 2012 12:59. Posts 6114 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 12:36 pigmanbear wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 01:49 endy wrote:
Yes your build is bad.
If you opponent is going forge fast expand, practice the 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build from Liquipedia.
My opponent didn't FFE in this game...if I had scouted properly and verified he wasn't expanding, what is a good build?
The 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra only works against fast expanding protoss.
If you only play on Python, you will face a lot of 2 gate openings, so first of all you should not 12 hatch 13 pool. Your zerglings will be way to late to defend against 2 gate.
If you are sure that your opponent is opening with 2 gate, then 10 hatch 9 pool is the best counter.
Otherwise with a standard 12 hatch, here are all the adaptations you can make against 1 base play :
 12 Hatch (vs. Protoss)#Adaptations |
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| pigmanbear Angola. August 06 2012 13:20. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # | |
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| Flip9 Germany. August 06 2012 15:47. Posts 151 | Profile # |
I suggest you start by using Hotkeys. Common is 1-3 for units and 4-0 hatches.
and then if you want to build hydras you can just go 4sh5sh6sh7sh. With practice you'll be able to do that in no time, and you don't even need to switch the screen to your base to do that. And if you want to send you workers to minerals just klick the hatch hotkey twice and your back in your base. send them to minerals, double klick 1 BAM your back to your army again.
Day9 has some good podcasts here you may want to listen to his Mechanics Series. There are tons of useful information out there. Almost too much^^ |
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| Bakuryu Germany. August 06 2012 17:10. Posts 268 | Profile Blog # |
| do u play with LAN Latency on? |
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| vOdToasT Sweden. August 06 2012 20:08. Posts 1567 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 01:49 endy wrote:
Yes your build is bad.
If you opponent is going forge fast expand, practice the 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build from Liquipedia.
And if he goes corsair reaver when you opened hydralisks, get a queen and burrow. Burrow groups of hydralisks all over the place, and use ensnare. |
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| Flip9 Germany. August 06 2012 20:49. Posts 151 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 20:08 vOdToasT wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 01:49 endy wrote:
Yes your build is bad.
If you opponent is going forge fast expand, practice the 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra build from Liquipedia.
And if he goes corsair reaver when you opened hydralisks, get a queen and burrow. Burrow groups of hydralisks all over the place, and use ensnare.
Thats way too advanced for him yet. But still thanks for the tip, I'll consider ensnare next time I play vs corsair reaver. |
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| pigmanbear Angola. August 06 2012 22:31. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 17:10 Bakuryu wrote:
do u play with LAN Latency on?
I didn't, but it sure sounds like I should be  |
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| stambe Bulgaria. August 06 2012 23:39. Posts 452 | Profile # |
On August 06 2012 22:31 pigmanbear wrote:I didn't, but it sure sounds like I should be
Always use Lan latency on Iccup and only play with people with Antihack turned ON (It says Antihack YES when they enter your lobby or you theirs). This means they also use the Iccup Launcher and have Lan Latency. And you can try to set the in game latency to Low. This way the commands imput is the fastest + Lan latency = the best way to play the game online. HIgh latency means the unit response is slower but the game is less jerky if the other guy ( or you on some occasions) have bad ping or bad connection. About your in game strategies, i think other people gave you pretty much all the advice you will need right now. Maybe even too much to remember at this point. Just concentrate on 1 thing at a time and try ti be precise.
And dont forget to have fun!!! If you can find a friend on your level you will have much more fun+ you will learn faster and you can help each other experiment stuff and train together. |
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| pigmanbear Angola. August 07 2012 00:46. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 23:39 stambe wrote:
Always use Lan latency on Iccup and only play with people with Antihack turned ON (It says Antihack YES when they enter your lobby or you theirs). This means they also use the Iccup Launcher and have Lan Latency. And you can try to set the in game latency to Low. This way the commands imput is the fastest + Lan latency = the best way to play the game online. HIgh latency means the unit response is slower but the game is less jerky if the other guy ( or you on some occasions) have bad ping or bad connection. About your in game strategies, i think other people gave you pretty much all the advice you will need right now. Maybe even too much to remember at this point. Just concentrate on 1 thing at a time and try ti be precise.
And dont forget to have fun!!! If you can find a friend on your level you will have much more fun+ you will learn faster and you can help each other experiment stuff and train together.
Thanks  I know it sounds like I'm frustrated (and that game wsa frustrating) that was more due to my ignorance and not really knowing where to turn. I have so much fun playing this game, every game. Everything is new again somehow. |
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| Bill Murray United States. August 07 2012 06:06. Posts 7056 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 06:46 pigmanbear wrote:
Also what's a good build for if the Protoss doesn't expand (like in this game)? I'm reading on 4 hatch and 3 hatch builds, but I don't know what is good against one-base Protoss that I likely will face more at my level.
if you see 2 gateways before gas or cybernetics, then you shouldn't get 3 hatcheries as in a 3rd hatchery at another base.
Instead, make 6-8 zerglings, a sunken colony at your natural (be willing to add sunkens more than he has medics as a general rule)
scout, scout, scout
hotkey your buildings, hit the hotkeys a lot,
macro, get familiar with keyboard buttons, like s, d, f2, f3 |
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| Bill Murray United States. August 07 2012 06:16. Posts 7056 | Profile Blog # |
People coming here likely were wanting to address the 2 base style of this. |
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| xccam Great Britain. August 07 2012 07:35. Posts 564 | Profile Blog # |
On August 07 2012 06:06 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 06:46 pigmanbear wrote:
Also what's a good build for if the Protoss doesn't expand (like in this game)? I'm reading on 4 hatch and 3 hatch builds, but I don't know what is good against one-base Protoss that I likely will face more at my level.
if you see 2 gateways before gas or cybernetics, then you shouldn't get 3 hatcheries as in a 3rd hatchery at another base. Instead, make 6-8 zerglings, a sunken colony at your natural ( be willing to add sunkens more than he has medics as a general rule) scout, scout, scout hotkey your buildings, hit the hotkeys a lot, macro, get familiar with keyboard buttons, like s, d, f2, f3
I wouldnt worry about that in ZvP personally.
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| ymir233 United States. August 07 2012 14:11. Posts 1244 | Profile Blog # |
On August 06 2012 01:18 pigmanbear wrote:Hi, so I'm getting back into playing BW. I played a D Protoss today who I thought I should've beaten, but sucking got in the way of that. He opened one base Stargate + Robo and I opened 12 hatch into hydralisks. I made a big attack with +1 speed range hydras and killed both his nexus, but I still lost because I had very few workers and he kept killing my economy w/ reavers. I guess the problems are that I'm bad at this and that I don't know what I'm supposed to do against reavers. It seems like they're really good against hydras. How do I win this game? http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=51458Also maybe I just never played BW seriously before I played SC2 ... but at least laddering on ICCup, the game feels so ... laggy? But I'm sure that's just because I'm not moving my units with confidence. I read some topics and (some) consensus seems to be I should've massed hydras like I did but that I shouldn't have attacked. I don't know if that's right, but please note that I'm looking for any comments on my play, because from not knowing how to scout ICCup maps to not moving my army efficiently for my big attack, I believe my play is full of holes. Also, does my build make sense? I made 12 hatch, pool at 13, a creep colony when my hatch finished (morph to sunken) and then a gas to go straight for hydra. The hydras seemed to pop not long after the sairs arrived so things worked out all right, but I'm sure my build is bad.
After you kill his nexus...you kill his army or his gateways. Which I'm not even gonna look in the replay but I'll guess that it doesn't consist of more than 1 reaver, shuttle, and 6 goon/zeals. Furthermore, I have no clue how he got to 2 bases when he went all the way to reaver tech while you just massed hydras and killed him. When he tries to expo, that should be your cue to keep him on 1 base and make him sad.
Your play isn't full of holes if you have no idea how to play in the first place o_____O;;; please don't do random stuff hoping it works. First, please see this thread and its discussions on how to face off against 1basers and how to utilize the 3 hatch hydra build effectively against it (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347198). Second, keep poking into his ramp once you have 4+ hydras to see if you can kill him any earlier. If he has only like 3-5 units (zeal/goon), the answer is probably very yes. Third, watch the MBCGame BNet Attack Returns FPVODs of Shine and I think Killer in order to see how to generally respond against 1gate tech. |
| | Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful. |
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| ymir233 United States. August 07 2012 14:14. Posts 1244 | Profile Blog # |
| Oh, and also, there are a TON of Ps 1basing in general (doing almost every variation/timing that I can think of) and getting their asses whupped by sAviOr, usually with the same defenses and shit every time. Check those out. |
| | Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful. |
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| TheShimmy United States. August 11 2012 03:43. Posts 1723 | Profile # |
| 3 Hatch Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra. ZvP takes a while to get used to. Honestly try 9-pooling when first starting to get the hang of some easier zerg mechanics and gain confidence. |
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| pigmanbear Angola. August 11 2012 03:52. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # |
On August 11 2012 03:43 TheShimmy wrote:
3 Hatch Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra. ZvP takes a while to get used to. Honestly try 9-pooling when first starting to get the hang of some easier zerg mechanics and gain confidence.
I 9-pool speedling rushed vs a 12 hatch today and I lost so badly it wasn't even close. I have a long ways to go before I gain any confidence. |
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| Nymphaceae United States. August 11 2012 16:14. Posts 343 | Profile Blog # |
On August 11 2012 03:52 pigmanbear wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 03:43 TheShimmy wrote:
3 Hatch Spire into 5 Hatch Hydra. ZvP takes a while to get used to. Honestly try 9-pooling when first starting to get the hang of some easier zerg mechanics and gain confidence.
I 9-pool speedling rushed vs a 12 hatch today and I lost so badly it wasn't even close. I have a long ways to go before I gain any confidence.
You shouldn't lose to the 12 hatch, unless they pull their drones. As long as you focus hard on microing your zergling, You should have 2 more zergling at his base, than he has zergling. After the battle, you will probably end up with about 4 ling left over if he doesn't pull his drones to protect his hatch. Since you're up by so many ling, he's going to be a drone short, and forced to lose more drones on things like sunkens. 4 drones on minerals, and 3 on gas is optimal for a hatch of mutas to constantly be produced. This will force him to play slightly behind you, in which you should have a significant advantage to win the game vs most C- players. |
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| quirinus Croatia. August 11 2012 16:29. Posts 1723 | Profile Blog # |
Basically, what you do vs 2 gate openings (if you 12 hatch) is: bring 2-3 drones to the expo hatch before it is about to finish, place one of each at the top, left and right of the hatch just at the places you'd place a sunken. Then as soon as it finishes you place all 3 sunkens if you can (good people will try blocking it with probe(s) and maybe 1 zealot, sometimes the creep/larva/egg will not allow it to go down there).
It goes without saying that you should make 8 lings. If really needed you can pull a few more drones to block/fight while trying to not lose them. Then you can cancel 1-2 sunkens/spores if you see you don't need them. Then place the 3rd hatch at your natural, blocking the passage to your main and making a sim city blocking or restricting the path to your sunken(s).
That's how I do it and I never die to 2 gate, it's almost the same as in that liquipedia article, but I place creep colonies and then cancel them.
Also keep in mind that creep colonies have 400 hp, and sunkens have 300. So if the zealots get a creep colony that's morphing into a sunken to 101 hp or less, when it morphs into a sunken it'll have 1 hp and will die in one hit. I cancel the morphing sunken colony if it gets close to 100.
Hotkeys.
You make groups with Ctrl+# (not Shift+#).
## - centers screen on the center of group ##. (if the units of that group are spread all over the map, it'll center between them - eg. in the middle of nowhere)
Space - centers to last message location (if something finishes or if you get the "we are under attack msg" you hit space and it'll center your screen on the location that this happened, very useful)
more hotkeys: Keyboard Shortcuts
Some more uncommon usages that aren't mentioned in those: You can combine Shift+Ctrl+Click on a unit to add all the closest units (on screen) of that type to the current selection. I use it a lot when a part of my control group dies to refill them with units.
I use ctrl+click on units on the map a lot too, very useful when grouping units and sending them to attack somewhere. Also ctrl+click on the units in the selection grid is very very useful.
Learn to use F2, F3 and F4, they'll make your job much much more easier as a Zerg. Center each screen on one base.
Scouting if you go 12 hatch. You should send the overlord to the closest starting position's natural expo and if you find nothing there proceed to the main base of that position. Second lord usually goes trough your natural (hangs a small bit there to see the scouting probe) to the 2nd closest natural/base (whichever is closer). Then when you're about to place the hatch you send 2 drones out, one to expand and the other to scout.
If it's a 4 player map, scout the diagonal position with the drone (as overlords will usually cover the closer positions, except on very big maps); if it's a big map, if you don't find him in that position you might have to send the drone where the 2nd lord is going to scout in time.
If it's a 3 player map, send the drone to where the 2nd lord is going.
If it's a 2 player map you don't really need to send the scouting drone (unless it's some big ass 2 player map).
Basically you want to see if he's going FE or 1 base. If fe, what order he places his building and their placement (to see if you can cut corners and squeeze in more drones or maybe get in with lings if his placement is too late/bad). If it's 1 base, check if he's going 2 gate or 1 gate tech or 1 gate->forge expo or if he's proxying (not enough pylons/gates) in his base.
^^ You can use this scouting pattern against Terran, but you have to be a lot more careful with overlords and try to move them over the unpassable or high ground terrain. The second overlord should stay over the expo (a bit more towards the enemy) until it finishes, as you can't see bunkers being built in time if you don't have a lord there.
Also, what you're scouting is different. The main thing to scout is if he's going gas or not. If he's not going, check if he has 1 or 2 rax. If 1 rax see if he's fast expanding. (You can try to attack the scv building something too).
Scouting diagonally, on most maps, goes trough the center. Most maps have space to build proxy stuff there, so it's an added bonus.Last edit: 2012-08-11 16:45:26 |
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| pigmanbear Angola. August 11 2012 22:51. Posts 414 | Profile Blog # |
On August 11 2012 16:29 quirinus wrote:
Awesome advice...
Thank you! |
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