TSL4 Critique

I got to start by saying, that I absolutely love the TSL tournaments, but no starcraft tourney can be perfect, and one thing in particular that I have noticed during TSL4 is that who ever is controlling the camera is missing extremely crucial end game engagements, as well as focusing on things like each players main base while the game is past the 15-20 minute mark. Very important details in the camera work that have made many games close to non watchable. I think that at least 6 out of 10 army confrontations have had some of their crutial time taken away from them because of the fact that who ever is controlling the camera is looking at a players gateway count instead.

I hope this feedback can come trough and that I'm not the only one thinking that the camera operator have been a bit out of focus during the last few TSL games.

RYUNG!!<33 Flash<33 MKP<3, Taeja, Mvp, HuK, Stephano, Bomber.

X3GoldDot Malaysia. August 06 2012 11:09. Posts 3840

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looking at main bases during late game are important to spot how many gateway/barracks or lategame tech like fleet beacon etc.....

Last edit: 2012-08-06 11:09:57

prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame

Vento7 Brazil. August 06 2012 11:46. Posts 45

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I agree, the observer wasn't great today. For instance, in one of the Hasu vs ThorZaIN games, the camera was on ThorZaIN attacking a base in the midle of the map while Hasu was destroying the Terran's production.
Alot of times the camera wasn't focusing what was being said by the casters.
It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but should be better (TSL standard).

mijellin China. August 06 2012 12:45. Posts 738

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I didn't watch the whole broadcast, but of what I saw the camera work was pretty good. He was pointing out some interesting resource and upgrades tidbits that the commentators weren't picking up on.

In that base trade with Thorzain v Hasu, I personally felt like it was obvious that Thorzain's base was completely undefended, so it would have just been protoss units attacking terran buildings uncontested. This was actually shown in the final seconds of the game. The more interesting and more important moment in that game was seeing whether Hasu's reinforcements would be able to fend off the attack. I think, at least on that one point, keeping the camera on Hasu's base was a purposeful and correct decision.

Last edit: 2012-08-06 12:45:13

AirbladeOrange United States. August 06 2012 13:51. Posts 2065

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Doesn't Hot Bid usually observe? Regardless I did notice a few things that were missed that were important but then again there were multiple things happening at the same time during the game I remember. If it is him he's usually a great observer and I wouldn't have thought anything else about it but reading this reminded me.

Otherwise so far so good. TSL3 and 4 have been my most anticipated tournaments of the year. I love the format, the presentation, the casters, and pretty much everything so far. Thanks so much for this!

Olex United States. August 06 2012 14:15. Posts 66

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Always things get lost in important games because so much is happening the whole time; it's not like we have multiple observers recording all the angles like in broadcast sports.

You can also take into account taste with respect to observing. I agree that it's obvious when a base is being lost its fun to watch buildings blow up but really, as an informed spectator I believe I should have to keep up, too. When I notice a drop moving into a base I look at the mini map to see if a response is coming, etc. I think the camera work is just fine.

A small detail, and I'm not sure why it's still in my head, but "private chat" holds a different weight in my head than "can chat publically." Perhaps I fell prey to some sort of eliticism? Is that why I purchased TL+? I don't think so, but, well, it's a different thing to chat in a room filled with only a few folks than it is to echo across every spectator.

Overall I've been very happy with the tournament and coverage, am excited about my poster and pin in the mail, and can't wait to keep watching.

Bugs in amber

kochanfe August 06 2012 14:36. Posts 871

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I agree, they should get someone good like Adebisi to observe...

"Rarely is the question asked – 'Is our children learning'" – George W. Bush

svefnleysi Iceland. August 06 2012 14:40. Posts 617

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I didn't catch much of today's broadcast, but I've actually been admiring the TSL observing.

Yamulo United States. August 06 2012 15:08. Posts 1871

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On August 06 2012 14:36 kochanfe wrote:
I agree, they should get someone good like Adebisi to observe...

If hotbid is the one observing, which I think he is, they already have an observer who is better than Adebisi. He just might be making mistakes at the moment, which everyone does, but hotbid is a phenomenal observer.

~~~Liquid Fighting~~~

Proxan Sweden. August 06 2012 16:51. Posts 15

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On August 06 2012 15:08 Yamulo wrote:

Show nested quote +

I assume it's one of the two casters observing since it's a replay and not a live game.

RaiKageRyu Canada. August 06 2012 16:55. Posts 3947

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On August 06 2012 16:51 Proxan wrote:

Show nested quote +

I assume it's one of the two casters observing since it's a replay and not a live game.

It's not. Never has been.

Someone call down the Thunder?

Dagobert Netherlands. August 06 2012 18:54. Posts 1588

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On August 06 2012 15:08 Yamulo wrote:

Show nested quote +

The sarcasm is lost on you...

IcookTacos Sweden. August 06 2012 19:42. Posts 88

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On August 06 2012 11:09 X3GoldDot wrote:
looking at main bases during late game are important to spot how many gateway/barracks or lategame tech like fleet beacon etc.....

Well it sure. But to be fair, the most standard way of casting/observing is with the production tab on, and when there is two casters I think it would be enough to mention that one player is warping a fleet beacon. And of course the camera can show it. But from a spectator's point of view, It's often really important to capture the exciting army confrontations in it's entirety.

RYUNG!!<33 Flash<33 MKP<3, Taeja, Mvp, HuK, Stephano, Bomber.

IcookTacos Sweden. August 06 2012 19:47. Posts 88

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On August 06 2012 14:40 svefnleysi wrote:
I didn't catch much of today's broadcast, but I've actually been admiring the TSL observing.

Well then maybe the sloppy camera work just came from the games I watched.

RYUNG!!<33 Flash<33 MKP<3, Taeja, Mvp, HuK, Stephano, Bomber.

Roachu Sweden. August 06 2012 22:20. Posts 509

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I've noticed the ~~sub-par~~ observing as well, not as good as MLG and nowhere near Legend-perfect. There is pretty much no synergy between observer and casters at all. That being said, the camera panning is very smooth IMO, something I notice a lot in other tournaments (particularly IPL) where they pan with the arrow-keys or even drag the screen along the minimap. Here it's smooth usage of the drag-scrolling and pretty good use of unit-following.

Edit: sub-par is the wrong word, but I guess I got my point across anyway.

Last edit: 2012-08-06 22:21:43

Don't be asshats

Silvanel Poland. August 06 2012 23:00. Posts 1756

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I dont have issues with TSL obseerving its fine, and mistakes are scarce. More often its the case of comnatators talking about something irrevelant while theres important stuff going on in game (and being shown by the observer) than the other way around.

JacobShock Denmark. August 07 2012 00:01. Posts 939

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The observing has gotten better. Though the observer still clicks on the mini map when it seems more precise just to camera follow the units instead. Like when you follow a drop ship for instance.

Hotbid: I could be a professional terran player! =D QXC: ..................................

Roachu Sweden. August 07 2012 01:10. Posts 509

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Oh and one last thing I want to say, something I'm well aware is a subjective matter but please turn up the volume of the ingame-music a bit. To me this makes the games feel more "atmospheric" and furthers the spectator-sport image. I think its a good way to "break the silence" during the times when nothing interesting goes on, rather than forcing the commentators to constantly talk every second. This is just my opinion (and so far GSL are the only one who satisfies my picky taste

), I'm sure you've thought about this kinda stuff already.

I know the point of this thread was the observing but given the title I thought it was a good place to mention it.

Don't be asshats

elsewhere August 07 2012 01:13. Posts 1

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I totally agree, i would even say the camera operator was awfull. Missed many important moves from the players and wasnt really in sync with the casters. Sorry to say that but in some situations i would like to punch him in the face for missing the action.

TheFrankOne United States. August 07 2012 01:28. Posts 666

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On August 06 2012 16:55 RaiKageRyu wrote:

Show nested quote +

It's not. Never has been.

I think it has been for the Ro32, unlike before. The casters have said things like "...if you look over at..." and named the other caster as if telling them to move the observer's screen over to whatever they are talking about. I would like confirmation on this one way or the other. It has been a growing suspicion as the observing feels way different than it did before to me.