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| MrLlama United States. August 07 2012 04:52. Posts 446 | Profile # |
Introduction: From a 12 drone rush to a 7 gate blink stalker all in, there is always a way to scout, prepare, and engage to swing the game into your favor. In my series, Winning With Ease, I showcase the best decisions to be made in these situations while facing mid-high masters players all the while using minimal APM. The series is for all 3 Starcraft races and adds a new video every day so either check in here every day for the new episode (added to the OP) or check out my youtube channel.
So far I have run through a variety of series to test the waters and gain an understanding of what SC help is still lacking out there. I wanted to be able to bring something new to the table that would really be able to benefit a large group of people. Eventually a silver league friend of mine actually came up with an idea about making videos showing how to stop certain pushes and cheeses that always kill him. I decided to take it and run and now I have my series Winning With Ease [Formerly Winning in 40 APM or Less]. Hopefully with these videos you will gain a much better understanding of Starcraft 2 and the difference between you and the next level in terms of decision making.
Note: These videos are aimed at Masters and below players. I'm not claiming to be a GM who can hold anything and I'm sure pros with amazing micro and mechanics could still outplay me even if I use some of my own advice for how to hold.
About me:
Name: MrLlamaSC
League: Masters
Race: Zerg
Stream: www.twitch.tv/mrllamasc
Youtube: www.youtube.com/mrllamasc
Where Do You Come In?
You get to throw out suggestions for videos based on stuff you are struggling with. Whether it be something like 6 pool or immortal sentry all-in, I'm here to help. I will re-enact your scenario as best as I can so that I can show you all of the important decisions to make to hold off his push.
What should you include in your post:
+ Show Spoiler +Name:
Race:
Match up:
Your Build:
His Build:
Specific Map?:
Replay: (helpful if you can provide one but not always necessary)
Comments:
EXAMPLE:
Name: JackBlack
Race: Terran
Match up: Tvt
Your Build: 1-1-1 into Cloak Banshee
His Build: 2 rax marine-scv all-in
Specific Map?: None
Replay: drop.sc/xxxxx
Comments: I don't like to wall-in in the TvT match up
Episodes:
TvT
Defending 1-1-1 Push Tank/Marine/Viking (TvT)
Defending Proxy Thor Rush (TvT)
Defending Proxy Marauder Rush (TvT)
Defending Marine Hellion Drop (TvT)
TvZ
Defending 2 Base Early Muta Play (TvZ)
Defending 2 Base Baneling Bust (TvZ)
Defending 2 Base Roach Rush (TvZ)
Defending Roach Bane Bust (TvZ)
Defending 6 pool with Command Center first (TvZ)
TvP
Defending Sase 3 Gate Agression w/ 1 rax FE (TvP)
Defending 1 Base Blink Stalker All in (TvP)
Defending Immortal Sentry All In (TvP)
Defending Proxy 2 Gate (TvP)
Defending 4 gate (TvP)
Defending 1 base Void Ray All In (TvP)
Defending 1 base colossus all in (TvP)
Defending cannon rush on antiga shipyard (TvP)
ZvT
Defending 11/11 rax (ZvT) (Going to redo due to complaints)
Playing Against Terran mech (ZvT)
Defending 2 Rax scv all in w/ 3 Hatch before pool (ZvT)
Defending Marauder Hellion Allin (ZvT)
Defending 11/11 Barracks Wall In (ZvT)
Defending 2 Rax Bunker Wall In (ZvT)
Defending Hellion/Banshee Harass (ZvT)
ZvZ
Defending 6 Pool Lings Only (ZvZ)
Defending 6 Pool Lings and Spine (ZvZ)
Defending 6 pool w/ all drones pulled (ZvZ)
Defending 10 pool w/ Hatch First & No Scout (ZvZ)
Defending 10 pool w/ Hatch first & 9-10 scout (ZvZ)
Defending 14/14 Ling Bling All In (ZvZ)
Defending 2 Hatch Ling/Bling All in (ZvZ)
Playing Ling Infestory Ultra Style (ZvZ)
Defending Against Mutalisks (ZvZ)
ZvP
Defending 7 Gate +2 Blink Stalker All in (ZvP)
Defending 1 Base Collosus All in (ZvP)
Defending 3 Pylon Block (ZvP)
Defending Cannons at your Natural (ZvP)
Defending 4 gate (ZvP)
Defending Delayed 12:30 Immortal Sentry All in (ZvP)
Defending Pylon/Forge Block (ZvP)
Defending 10:00 Immortal Sentry All in (ZvP)
Defending Double Stargate (ZvP)
Defending SkyToss Voidray/Carrier (ZvP)
Teching to Broodlord Infestor (ZvP)
PvT
Defending 10 Min +1 Stim MMM Push (PvT)
Defending 2 Rax All In (PvT)
Defending 2 rax scv all in with Nexus First (PvT)
Defending the 1-1-1
PvZ
Defending 12 Drone Rush (PvZ)
Defending 7 Pool w/ FFE (PvZ)
Defending 7 pool w/ Gate Opener (PvZ)
Defending 6 pool into proxy hatch with spines (PvZ)
Defending 2 base Mutas (PvZ)
Securing a 3rd Base (PvZ)
Defending Proxy Hatch in Base With Nexus First (PvZ)
Establishing a 3rd vs 12:00 Roach Max (PvZ)
PvP
Defending 4 gate w/ 3 stalker opener (PvP)
Defending Cannon Rush (PvP)
Defending Proxy 2 Gate In Your Base (PvP)
Defending DT Rush into zealot/Archon all in (PvP)
Defending 1 base Phoenix All in (PvP)
Defending Cannon Rush on Antiga Shipyard (PvP)
Videos in production:
ZvZ: Mass mutas
ZvZ: 8 muta harass roach switch
PvT: 1-1-1 banshee-siege-marine-scv (possible raven)
PvT: 8-9min stim marine (marauder maybe?) (open 1 gate FE, 3 gate, 6 min robo, 7 min twilight, charge)
ZvT: Proxy rax w/ gas into reaper bunker rush, marauders, banshee
ZvT: Raven Mech into SkyMech (Metropolis)
ZvT: MMM (I open muta into fast 3rd)
ZvT: hellion/banshee harass with 3 bases
ZvP: Safely teching to infestor/broodlord
Discussion and questions are always welcome
-MrLlamaSCLast edit: 2012-12-30 15:00:00 |
| | www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos |
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| Cyro United Kingdom. August 07 2012 05:21. Posts 5735 | Profile Blog # |
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?
And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.Last edit: 2012-08-07 05:22:08 |
| | Defender of Esports # "oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88 # "there really isn’t any actual need to have the minerals and gas constantly displayed" - Blizzard |
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| Roxor9999 Netherlands. August 07 2012 05:32. Posts 725 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 05:21 Cyro wrote:
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?
And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.
Actually moving 20 lings is only 1 action.
OT: The best way is just have more apm instead of trying to be good with 40. |
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| yankjenets United States. August 07 2012 05:37. Posts 224 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 05:21 Cyro wrote:
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?
And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.
If you are moving each of your lings individually, then something is seriously wrong...
I definitely think it is theoretically possible to play at an NA GM level with ~50 APM, if no actions are wasted. |
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| FinalForm United States. August 07 2012 05:38. Posts 402 | Profile # |
| Don't worry about apm so much, it grows in tandem with your understading of the game and how to make the appropriate decisions |
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| ishyishy United States. August 07 2012 05:39. Posts 795 | Profile # |
I might be a minority, but I have never enjoyed or have been interested in discussing APM. I feel like almost everyone talks about APM way too much. A lot of people over-value it, to the point of trying to insult other players because they have low APM in whatever league (like for example I have under 60 effective APM, but I was in masters for 3 seasons, and all i got was "how did you get to masters, you are terrible, you need 150 apm minimum for this and that, oh yu play protoss no wonder...").
When I see a caster or an observer show the APM tab in a tournament match, and they go into how much ap each player has, it actually annoys me. I would rather hear almost anything else in the beginning of a match when nothing is going on; like who the players are, who their team is, what tournaments they won in the past, etc.
I feel like you can just say "you can slow down your APM if you use it more effectively instead of mindless spam" and be done with it. What else is there to say on effective APM? You cant really teach people how to use APM by telling them on a forum or a video, the player needs to make the decision to do it. It seems like somethng you learn by doing, rather than theory crafting about it, which is another reason I dont feel like there is much to discuss about it.
Im no pro, but I dont see how APM relates to strategy at all. Obviously you cant be "too slow" because a certain skill level of mechanics is needed to play amoung the best, but in general it doesnt explain what the player is doing or is going to do during the game. I never hear "oh well if you do this build, you want around 200 apm. If you go for this build, you want 120."
This is just my opinion on the subject of your show or blog or whatever. If you can make a show with this subject interesting or entertaining, then I will be impressed lol. Good luck. |
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 Neurosis United States. August 07 2012 05:42. Posts 891 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 05:37 yankjenets wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 05:21 Cyro wrote:
Macro mechanics, creep spread, injects and basic army movement is enough to put you at ~150eapm+ if you are going mid/lategame zerg, how are you going to handle that?
And also considering that 500 resources of zerglings (20 lings) moved twice will count as 40 actions, but 500 resources of roaches (5 roaches) moved twice will count as only 10 actions, how are you going to account for that? APM is a horrible measure of hand/brain speed.
If you are moving each of your lings individually, then something is seriously wrong... I definitely think it is theoretically possible to play at an NA GM level with ~50 APM, if no actions are wasted.
They're out there, it's definitely possible. Speed is important in starcraft but first and foremost it's a strategy game. Good decision making is the most important tool to learn. |
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| Cyro United Kingdom. August 07 2012 05:42. Posts 5735 | Profile Blog # |
| Hm, thats odd. Seems you are right, but my APM with zerg is almost three times the APM i have with protoss, i thought that was because you have more units etc at a lower cost? I play both races pretty aggressively |
| | Defender of Esports # "oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88 # "there really isn’t any actual need to have the minerals and gas constantly displayed" - Blizzard |
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| NeMeSiS3 Canada. August 07 2012 05:45. Posts 2969 | Profile Blog # |
Why not just improve and get... say 50 apm, or 60... A thread on being effective while acting in a completely ineffective way is redundant and teaches bad mechanics in my opinion.
Sure, you can win, but why? That's like me saying "I can walk a mile with 1 foot, look at me it's so hard" Can you explain what really makes you think this is a good idea?Last edit: 2012-08-07 05:45:35 |
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| ishyishy United States. August 07 2012 05:56. Posts 795 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 05:45 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Why not just improve and get... say 50 apm, or 60... A thread on being effective while acting in a completely ineffective way is redundant and teaches bad mechanics in my opinion.
Sure, you can win, but why? That's like me saying "I can walk a mile with 1 foot, look at me it's so hard" Can you explain what really makes you think this is a good idea?
I agree with this.
40 APM is actually really reeally slow. I am an extremely slow player, and even I have over 50 most of the time. |
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| Citherna United States. August 07 2012 06:06. Posts 31 | Profile # |
When you play as zerg, generally you're also building more units, (perhaps that's the cause of all the extra APM for you); building 40 sets of zerglings obviously requires 40 actions, whereas building two tanks or colossi requires... well... two apm. :x.
In short, the best strategy with low apm would be a strategy that uses high-cost units, (protoss, or terran cheese with thors/banshees/trollerific stuffs :D). I don't think limiting yourself to 40 APM is necessary, just tell newbies what to do with their relatively low APM; i.e. don't focus as much on stutter-stepping, and focus on building units back at home. Good luck :D!
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| TheBigO United States. August 07 2012 06:08. Posts 56 | Profile # |
I think this series is a good idea for a few reasons.
First, there are a lot of people who are new at the game (yes, people still buy Starcraft 2). These people may not be used to playing an RTS game, and their mechanics will be slow. Sure, you can tell them to just "mass games' to increase their APM, but this can encourage mindless spamming and poor mechanics. If you teach them how to use their APM effectively and avoid making mistakes, they will improve their mechanics even with low APM. They will also gain valuable knowledge about how to deal with a variety of situations on the ladder. Then, as they mass games on their own, their APM can improve as well as their mechanics, and they can become better starcraft players faster.
Also, there are a lot of older people who play Starcraft 2. Generally, people who are older tend to have slower APM, and their APM tends to not increase much over time. This series can teach them to improve their game sense and their mechanics so that they can make the most out of their APM.
Overall, it is true that having 100+ APM can allow you to do much more, but APM is so much more than spamming. It is the mechanics and the game knowledge behind the APM that matters most. This series is meant to address that. That is why I approve of the series. |
| | I really need a better quote... but I have no ideas :( . |
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| kranten Netherlands. August 07 2012 06:13. Posts 235 | Profile # |
On August 07 2012 05:42 Cyro wrote:
Hm, thats odd. Seems you are right, but my APM with zerg is almost three times the APM i have with protoss, i thought that was because you have more units etc at a lower cost? I play both races pretty aggressively
Yeah building units causes big APM spikes, and inject adds another ~20 APM on 3 injected bases. |
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| MrLlama United States. August 07 2012 07:01. Posts 446 | Profile # |
I appreciate the feedback. It definitely shows that there was some necessary clarification which I have added to the bottom of the OP. Please read that and if you have any questions continue to post them and I will answer them.
I have also added a section called The Point for added clarification:
The Point:
If I can hold something with 40APM, you can hold it with anything >= 40APM
Last edit: 2012-08-07 07:06:02 |
| | www.youtube.com/mrllamasc << Casting & Analysis Videos |
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| Pylons Canada. August 07 2012 07:08. Posts 54 | Profile # |
| my friend, google was top 8 grandmasters with about 40 - 60 apm, so 40 apm is definitely enough to win in masters league! |
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| Willzzz United Kingdom. August 07 2012 07:13. Posts 684 | Profile # |
| Doing things right is definitely better than doing things fast. If you can do both then all the better. |
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| RoberP United Kingdom. August 07 2012 07:43. Posts 101 | Profile # |
I like the idea! Definitely a great way to showcase what's important at crisis moments. Also it's cool to see people use only the actions they need to - how awesome would it be to see a pro whose every action was meaningful, whose every gesture was necessary? Finesse is sexy - the guy who wins with a single stroke is much cooler than the guy who bludgeons with 50 - of course once you have the necessary speed to execute this. One I struggled with recently:
ViKingPrime
Terran
TvP
1 rax expo, 2nd rax -> double gas -> factory -> tanks
Proxy voids + warp gate all in
Shakuras plateau. Last edit: 2012-08-07 07:51:36 |
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| Heavenlee United States. August 07 2012 07:49. Posts 673 | Profile # |
| I feel it's possible with toss. I'm low masters with ~120 apm atm and my build orders are not optimized as much as they could be, and I spam in the beginning. If you're efficient and everything goes down the second it needs to you can just overrun with sheer outmacroing because toss macro isn't especially difficult--probes, pylons, gas, make buildings, make units. I still don't know if 40 is possible because I still have more than that just kind of making probes, but ~60 is I guess, especially if you turtle and a-move a deathball. Last edit: 2012-08-07 07:49:58 |
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| Sir Z United States. August 07 2012 08:26. Posts 2 | Profile # |
As a gold player with fairly low APM, and who's not really interested in spending the time doing APM drills, I'm totally interested in this.
Name: SirZ
Race: terran
Match up: TvP
Your Build: Boxer's 1 rax FE into MMM
His Build: any build that prioritizes psi storm chargelot
Specific Map?: none
Comments: biggest problem is how to efficiently use ghosts.
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| etherealfall Australia. August 07 2012 08:28. Posts 391 | Profile # |
| I really don't understand why you would advocate for settling for less mechanical skill. 40APM is incredibly slow. By simply mineral stacking, my early game APM is 110APM. |
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