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| Gotmog Serbia. August 08 2012 00:46. Posts 863 | Profile # | |
| | "When you play the game of drones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground" |
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| bonifaceviii Canada. August 08 2012 00:52. Posts 2840 | Profile # |
TLDR: writing for esports websites doesn't pay the bills.
Does anyone think it did? |
| | Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018 |
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]343[ United States. August 08 2012 00:53. Posts 8153 | Profile Blog # |
Replace "underpaid workers" with "mostly volunteer workers."
edit: dang, 7kLast edit: 2012-08-08 00:54:08 |
| | move along, move along, just to make it through || RIP KT_Violet <3 | |
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| JinDesu United States. August 08 2012 00:54. Posts 3380 | Profile Blog # |
I don't know if it's just me, but it was really quite difficult to read that article. It didn't seem well written - I'm not sure if that is typical of his content quality or if it's just because it's a blog post.
However:
Third flaw. Underpaid workers. Let me tell you something eSports. I can live without your “gaming gears” and your “LAN event trips” but I need to rent a room for my dog and my cat and my bird and my snakes while feeding them too! The only real people getting decent pay from “eSports” are the owner of these organizations solely because they are exploiting all these flaws. Salary payments are often late by months too and how the hell am I suppose to bring my pet pig for vaccination in the vet?
He's making a joke here, right? |
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| KvltMan Sweden. August 08 2012 00:54. Posts 1522 | Profile Blog # | |
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| Nevermind86 Somalia. August 08 2012 00:56. Posts 410 | Profile # |
Volunteers are the best of workers.
-Henry Ford.
I was a writter and admin for a latin american wc3 page, in spanish of course, I put so much effort on that site along with some of my other friends, we made it a really good webpage until wc3 died in latin america around 2009-2010, also in the last 3 jobs I've had i've been a volunteer, especially in the last two jobs I was really really underpaid but I enjoyed every bit of it (DJ in a stripclub, yea doesn't it sound fun), what I'm trying to say is, volunteers always do a good job, I'm not saying the guy doesn't have a point but even though I don't visit TL much isn't it run by volunteers?, I think it's doing pretty ok, maybe it was because Dota was not as big as Starcraft that they ran out of good volunteers... or something.
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| | Interviewer: Many people hate you and would like to see you dead. How does that make you feel? Trevor Goodchild: Those people should get to know me a little better. Then they'd know I don't indulge in feelings. |
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| Numy South Africa. August 08 2012 00:56. Posts 7346 | Profile Blog # |
| Seems for more that he's pissed he couldn't make a living off doing writing/editing in "esports". Rather naive if he thought he could. He even goes and attacks Gosugamers/Joindota for not paying enough basically. Don't really see how it's worth attention. Nothing we haven't heard before without all the anger. Last edit: 2012-08-08 00:57:48 |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. August 08 2012 00:58. Posts 27005 | Profile Blog # |
I think overall his complaints are real, yet misguided. Yeah, volunteer workers are that: workers and unless you show them a parallel of motivation of why they should do something, they won't do it. They have lives and they like/want to do other things; but they also want to help.
You need to illustrate constantly the points of why someone would want to do something in favour of your organization and site. Yes, incentives work and although he felt he didn't need them, a lot of people wouldn't mind free stuff in exchange for their work.
Not going to disagree with a lot of top dogs being selfish, ignorant people. I've only met a small fraction and already I have my dislikes (and it takes a bit for me to entirely write you off).
For instance, MYM were constantly enticing me with higher pay, gaming gears, and LAN event trips although not even a single thing was fulfilled.
This is true, a lot of organizations suggest to you "possibility of travel" when it really more relies on your location and who is cheaper to send. This is normal and pretty natural, but it feels a bit misleading because it isn't necessarily about amount of work, but more about both where you live as well as how long you've actively been working with the organization (loyalty and dedication matters)
With all these flaws in mind, I closed my books on eSports and decided to “retire” indefinitely and all my efforts over the past year are nothing but a good looking paragraph on my resume.
I don't see why this is bad. My entire CV/Resume is E-sports stuff ranging from player-managing to event organization to various forms of writing (political, journalistic, social media)
Obviously, I poured this out to joinDOTA management considering I’m invaluable and irreplaceable to them so that they can try to offer me a deal allowing me to work full time for them (considering I work 12 hours a day for them anyway).
He must be misguided, amount of time doesn't equate to invaluableness. He hasn't been there for long and thus they probably didn't gauge him as worthwhile as he thought. I used to do 10+ hours a day for a few teams just being available for the players and always doing something towards their travel, accomodations, waiting to hear back from outside organizations and that didn't make me irreplaceable. Your background doesn't matter because sometimes the jobs you do are simply just demanding a dedicated person and that's doesn't solely make you invaluable or worthy of a full-pay, you need to show more. Few get paid and those few wokred their way up, it's a slow process; especially in writing where everyone writes.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334375
It's common knowledge that most jobs in E-Sports don't pay and no one makes the illusion that it does.
On May 03 2012 05:17 Torte de Lini wrote:Uncharted and Unsung [Getting what you put in] Motivation is a strong force in the human mind to go that extra step. To change from just a spectator, consumer or fan of E-Sports to a cog of the many organizations that propel itself to both victories and media exposure. Your work is the community's gain. For every iconic person to do something great for the community, there are at least 100 other people who have their own form of contribution without a single mention or recollection of their name. If you want to get into E-Sports, you need to have the right reasons lined up: - There is no money involved, this is not some scare-tactic, a harsh way to keep your expectations low. There is very little money involved and if there is; it is very likely never going to come to you. Everyone is an investor: an investor of time, financials or hard-work. You can be too, the currency in E-Sports, not just StarCraft II, is passion. There is no green in competitive gaming, but there is a ton of passionate people wanting to do that little bit to make something big.
- There is no fame. There is, however, a lot of self-promotion to those who don't quite get the idea that long-term work and effort pays out much more than short-term recognition. In E-Sports, it never mattered how many people knew you, just those who can do something or give you further opportunities. How many people can you name that have come and gone after their brief stint in the spotlight (I can name maybe 8). Now, name me the top 6 people who are the most influential to you; can you also name me what they've done and how long they've been doing it? One day, everyone may know you or what you have done, but its beyond the foreseeable future. For now, focus on what you can do, how you can do it and what it does overall to the scene and to the people that rely on you.
- The reward is making cool things happen. Whether hosting a fun tournament, managing a fun team, or even helping people at work follow along to games they can't watch, E-Sports is filled with people who do what they do simply for the sake of doing it. If you want to get involved in the E-Sports scene by donating your time, energy, and money, it should be because of what you want to do with it, not what you want it to do for you.
There is a common misconception about this section of professional gaming that there is a lot of money either being withheld by the big boys up top or being spread around in large quantiites to the recognizable names of today. Neither are really true and in reality, everyone has dumped in more than they can pull back to sustain themselves. That's just how the industry is today and the reason why E-Sports relies heavily on volunteer staff to continue to both propel this world into the mainstream lifestyle as well keep it from falling apart with the lack of organization and professionalism. In the end, however, it's never truly work unless you don't enjoy it. If you don't like the steps you are walking up, then getting to whatever top you aim for will always be more difficult, time-consuming and difficult to endure than you hope. What you'll gain from E-Sports is both the experience to work on projects you want to sincerely succeed as well as meeting new people who are worlds different in personality, understanding of the world as a whole (not just E-Sports) and experts in areas you've yet to try or even know about. This is neither a warning or a suggestion, but rather just an outline of what's to come.This is both coming from personal experience and my own point of view, but to tell you what will happen with what you want to do and will do in E-Sports is to expect something in a scene that is always unexpected and growing positively. I hope to work with all of you in one way or another and know you can do everything possible.
Last edit: 2012-08-08 01:12:50 |
| | https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini) | |
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| Judicator United States. August 08 2012 00:58. Posts 5710 | Profile Blog # |
On August 08 2012 00:54 JinDesu wrote:I don't know if it's just me, but it was really quite difficult to read that article. It didn't seem well written - I'm not sure if that is typical of his content quality or if it's just because it's a blog post. However: Show nested quote +Third flaw. Underpaid workers. Let me tell you something eSports. I can live without your “gaming gears” and your “LAN event trips” but I need to rent a room for my dog and my cat and my bird and my snakes while feeding them too! The only real people getting decent pay from “eSports” are the owner of these organizations solely because they are exploiting all these flaws. Salary payments are often late by months too and how the hell am I suppose to bring my pet pig for vaccination in the vet?
He's making a joke here, right?
Yes, he's not that good of a writer although improved since his days from writing for MYM. He's another of one of those who went into e-sports as a non-player with unrealistic expectations. It's definitely foolhardy to call a flaw at this point for any genre of gaming. There are flaws with e-sports for sure, but he's not exactly highlighting the more obvious/serious ones.
Edit:
The part that gets me is how he thinks that his writing (pretty obvious from this) is worthy of a sustaining salary. Like slow down please.Last edit: 2012-08-08 01:02:48 |
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| Numy South Africa. August 08 2012 00:59. Posts 7346 | Profile Blog # |
| Yea he's basically saying the flaw is that there isn't enough money. |
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| GreEny K Germany. August 08 2012 01:02. Posts 7263 | Profile # |
| Every industry starts somewhere, money will come... Last edit: 2012-08-08 01:09:03 |
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| Judicator United States. August 08 2012 01:04. Posts 5710 | Profile Blog # |
On August 08 2012 01:02 GreEny K wrote: Every industry start somewhere, money will come...
I don't believe it will for at least another 5 years. Short of derailing this topic altogether, the problem lies in the diversity of titles in "e-sports". |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. August 08 2012 01:05. Posts 27005 | Profile Blog # |
edit top post
Last edit: 2012-08-08 01:12:36 |
| | https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini) | |
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| AmericanUmlaut Germany. August 08 2012 01:09. Posts 2251 | Profile # |
Team Liquid is powered almost entirely by the willingness of a small percentage of the community to provide remarkable amounts of work for no pay. Far from being a dead end that spells the doom of e-sports, unpaid journalism and community organization provided by the community itself, with administration provided by a few paid workers, is the likely future of all journalism (see: YouTube). From the article, it sounds like Reinnn signed up for an uncompensated (or as good as uncompensated) job, then was unhappy when it turned out that the job was uncompensated.
"I did volunteer work. You gave me a gaming mouse. I don't want a fucking gaming mouse, I want a middle-income salary. This industry is going nowhere." |
| | The frumious Bandersnatch |
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| GreEny K Germany. August 08 2012 01:09. Posts 7263 | Profile # |
On August 08 2012 01:04 Judicator wrote: Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 01:02 GreEny K wrote: Every industry start somewhere, money will come...
I don't believe it will for at least another 5 years. Short of derailing this topic altogether, the problem lies in the diversity of titles in "e-sports".
It doesn't have to be instantaneous, it may take time but it will develop. |
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| ticklishmusic United States. August 08 2012 01:13. Posts 3193 | Profile Blog # |
| It seems like he was looking for a niche that either didn't really exist, wasn't big enough, or he didn't fit. |
| | (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ #1 TPA fanboy TL |
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| Judicator United States. August 08 2012 01:14. Posts 5710 | Profile Blog # |
That and the fact he was writing for MYM. Christ that organization was shady as fuck as anyone who followed competitive DotA can tell you.
Edit:
Funnily enough, he's the second person to post on TL about e-sports in a cautionary/negative manner who use to be under MYM.Last edit: 2012-08-08 01:17:41 |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. August 08 2012 01:16. Posts 27005 | Profile Blog # |
| There are a lot of organizations that really take advantage of people and they're pretty easy to spot upon first contact when you apply. |
| | https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini) | |
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| starfries Canada. August 08 2012 01:19. Posts 2617 | Profile Blog # |
Even the higher echelons of eSports are full of immature and selfish pricks.
I'm pretty sure the higher echelons of anything is full of immature and selfish pricks. Welcome to the real world?
In fact, the whole article reads like someone who just got his first taste of the real world and didn't like it. |
| | DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting! |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. August 08 2012 01:23. Posts 27005 | Profile Blog # |
On August 08 2012 01:19 starfries wrote: Show nested quote + Even the higher echelons of eSports are full of immature and selfish pricks.
I'm pretty sure the higher echelons of anything is full of immature and selfish pricks. Welcome to the real world? In fact, the whole article reads like someone who just got his first taste of the real world and didn't like it.
The real world has this theatre act where you work for pricks, but get paid to tolerate them.
It's a real issue where you work for free and have to tolerate ego-maniacs who love themselves for being at the top of something so small. |
| | https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini) | |
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