I was bored so I'll post a short troll build for some ladder fun. This is ZvP-specific, on a 2-player map, although if you have the balls and you know how to scout you could do it on a 3-player map since the drones should have some idle time before the forge completes.
1) Do an economic overpool. You know, 9ovy 9pool 11save. 2) When the first of your three post-pool drones hatch from its egg, send 5 drones out near the opponent's nat choke, out of sight obviously. Be sneaky. Derp. Your overlord should have arrived at your opponent's nat choke at this point, giving you clear vision of his forge. 3) Your overlord should see the cannon start up. Feel free to jump in with your drones and make the Protoss very sad. When he pulls his probes, try not to engage and instead focus on getting free shots in, blocking the cannon from building, and getting more free shots on the probes that are trying to surround the 2nd cannon that's building. Do not let the probes surround your units. This will be very very bad. If it seems like the cannon will complete with minimal probe losses, see if you can do a runby. That will also make the Protoss very sad.
Note: your opponent must assume that you'll go some build that he can block with Forge FE and thus must scout after they build their nexus or forge. I have not tried this in a situation where the opponent scouts immediately after 8pylon, but I'm guessing that even on windy maps like Neo Chain Reaction it'll be pretty difficult to not get caught with your pants down early. And even if you can drone/ling rush while blocking their cannons from building with your drones pretty effectively with this build (esp. against someone who is panicking), you don't want to get caught with your pants down early with any surprise build. On maps like Destination or Bloody Ridge, I'd say this is not a very viable build unless you're turning this build into a drone/ling allin timing.
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Bill Murray United States. August 09 2012 16:42. Posts 7055
i dont really understand how you get 5 drones out of your base if your opponent scouts after forge. you'd have to bring your drones out retardedly early and no self respecting protoss is going to not notice that 5 drones are missing from your base and will pull probes accordingly...
Jonoman92 United States. August 09 2012 19:37. Posts 7406
Also, assuming you see his probe coming to your base send a droneout to your nat (best if it meets the probe when the probe gets to top of your ramp thereabouts) in the hopes he will chase to delay the hatchery at your natural he thinks he'll be blocking. Obviously, this is so he doesn't scout our main.
ymir233 United States. August 09 2012 20:57. Posts 1233
On August 09 2012 18:12 Kiante wrote: i dont really understand how you get 5 drones out of your base if your opponent scouts after forge. you'd have to bring your drones out retardedly early and no self respecting protoss is going to not notice that 5 drones are missing from your base and will pull probes accordingly...
Just timed it. Drones move out 15-20 game seconds before the probe arrives in the nat if you don't dilly-dally. And I agree that it IS retardedly early - it gives you barely enough minerals for the lings while getting those drones out to kill that first cannon ASAP. That's the point I think o____O
You can always do the trick that Jonoman92 suggested (which I'm pretty sure most self-respecting protoss players will fall for) by timing the 'fake nat expo' drone after the initial 5-drone pull. Also, again, since the 5-drone pull is at least 10 game seconds earlier, the Protoss will have to have a pretty fast reaction to fight it off, and even then it essentially becomes the same micro situation that I described in the last step of the build, with the runby and all. Because if he doesn't expand and depends on his cannon(s?) then a runby past a cannon surrounded by probes will make the P very sad, whereas if he goes forge-nex-cannons the P will scout later and be even sadder.
Last edit: 2012-08-09 21:00:14
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FlaShFTW United States. August 09 2012 23:09. Posts 4957
I was under the impression this strategy would only work if you scouted a blind 12nex (indicated by a lack of early scout) and you happened to go overpool ... Interesting to hear that it could also work against a blind 11 or 12forge lol
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Harem United States. August 10 2012 08:00. Posts 9351
Some maps and positions this isn't really that viable. For example, if it's FS and they spawn top right or bott left then a double forge block basically stops this cold. (Noone learned this the hard way while playing Fold)
On Minus)Eagle stream the other day, a zerg used a diff cheese but it was the same kind of idea. Basically, he scouts the 11nex with his drone scout and then makes a hatch where the gateway would go. (This even counters the imba top right/bott left spawns) Then, lings can do a lot of damage. Eagle faced this twice in a row and lost both times. He even tried to double forge one of the times but it failed cause there was no gateway so lings just ran by.
Also, Wooki not canceling the nexus when he saw the drones was pretty silly.
Edit: Luxury also did the drone rush to some Afreecan protoss (maybe Eagle?) when he was top left and Eagle was top right on FS. He sent his drones to 12 and then to P nat so P had no idea it was coming and it was too late to double forge.
I love this game, very fun. I think at the 5.13 minute mark Wooki was in a great position. If he had cancelled the nexus, he could have placed a gateway and 2nd cannon immediately at that moment and I think this would be the better response though. Because Wooki decided to keep the nexus, he had to use many probes to block a much bigger choke, delaying mining for too long. Its not necessary to have two nexus at that point cus you cant pump probes from both due to the fact that so many probes are trying to wall off. One good thing is that by keeping the nexus, the probes which are mining are much closer to the choke and ready to defend. At the 6.33 minute mark, Wooki was still in a good position. However, Hydra then moves in at 6.39 minutes and Wooki doesnt defend as well as he could have. If Wooki had lined up his 4 probes tightly, and not let those 6 lings in so easily, he would have won imo.
This should be on the list of exceptionally bad games alongside FBH vs Jaehoon
But this strat is a nice one.
Wouldn't it be funny if this happened in THSL and instead of killing every cannon, the zerg kept running into the main and killing it? Then the protoss is stuck on his nat :D
Last edit: 2012-08-10 09:02:22
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ymir233 United States. August 10 2012 09:09. Posts 1233
On August 10 2012 01:37 Flip9 wrote: But if he went 2 gate you lose?
Dunno, how fast can you kill the surrounding probes before the zealots get out? That situation would essentially be like having a 5pool being scouted early by a 2gater, plus 5drones for attacking, with a shorter time frame for the Z to do damage. You would probably use the drones to flank the probes, or at least keep them from surrounding your army like antibodies by acting as meat shields while lings go around the back to get a better positioning.
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Severedevil United States. August 10 2012 10:56. Posts 4498
On August 10 2012 01:37 Flip9 wrote: But if he went 2 gate you lose?
Dunno, how fast can you kill the surrounding probes before the zealots get out? That situation would essentially be like having a 5pool being scouted early by a 2gater, plus 5drones for attacking, with a shorter time frame for the Z to do damage. You would probably use the drones to flank the probes, or at least keep them from surrounding your army like antibodies by acting as meat shields while lings go around the back to get a better positioning.
This is an Overpool build. If the Protoss goes gateway first, the zealots are out by the time you arrive, and of course they will hold with ease.
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Kiante Australia. August 09 2012 18:12. Posts 6337
Harem United States. August 10 2012 08:00. Posts 9351
