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Hey all. I've been halfway following along, but really need to go back and read through this as there seem to be a couple main plot lines going on.
I know zelblade didn't really give you much, so I'll get some thoughts together and hopefully tonight or tomorrow morning. For now, I'm just going to do a quick read over the last little bit and get a vote on someone, don't have time while at work to fully catch up. The main lynch candidates are...wiggles, dirkzor, mattchew, misder, hopeless?
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Quick glance. I don't read Hopeless1der as scummy as everyone else seems to.
The timing on that weird mattchew defense is off, but ... the whole thing feels off. Working off of a comment WBG made about not liking to assume players are bad, you're assuming really bad play from Hopeless1der in my mind if he's scum based on that defense (I know that's not 100% of why people are voting him). There's too much of it, at an awkward time. It feels much more like an actual attempt to push votes because of how much stuff is there, rather than a defense in order to get town cred later.
I'm alright with voting Misder, his last 2 posts are just big ol' blobs of town reads and thoughts never carried to their conclusion. Lots of wishy washy stuff, lots of outs for him to move votes later. There's really just nothing there.
Haven't had time to fully read back over mattchew, dirkzor, wiggles. I remember not loving wiggles while halfway following along.
Random side note, it appears that someone has got some nasty KP based on the BC kill: + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 20:19 deconduo wrote: BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated.
You are Growlithe, a Fire type Pokemon. BC was fire-type. But BC's death flavor was "incinerated," which indicates a fire-type killed him, and On August 24 2012 13:40 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 11:37 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Is kill flavour an indicator of how someone died, or is it purely flavour? Its an indicator to some degree
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Okay, done a little more catching up. I'm really liking MrWiggles for scum.
BC's Case + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 16:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 14:41 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). So, this post stuck out to me, because of the misdirection it's pushing. It's funny, because he says I claim people are red, when all I said is I think that at least one of BC and WBG are red. There wasn't a declaration about which I thought was red, just that I thought there was red between them. However, BC reacts very defensively here. His reasoning for me being a scum candidate is that I'm criticizing people and claiming "they must" be red without a case. But the fun part is I didn't call either him or WBG red directly, I just said one of them were red. So, why the defensiveness and near-OMGUS? If for example, I had said that there was at least one red among all the players still alive, no one would care. It would be fallacious to say that I was saying all of them must be red without a case. So then why the difference when I limit it to a small pool of players? Now the next fun part is that besides saying I'm claiming some people must be red when all I did was say that I thought at least one bandwagon was started by scum (which is a reason, by the way), BC criticizes me for doing so without making a case on either one. He also uses this to support the conclusion that I'm scum. This would be fine coming from another player, but not from BC, or at least not if you've read his filter. Let's take a look, shall we? + Show Spoiler [The Terrible Terrible Contradiction Re…] +On August 20 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Whoever said third time is the charm is a horrible liar. Also people stop role speculating. Previous PtP games have seen really amazing ideas thought up and ones that lack any sort of creativity.
What people should instead be concentrating is scum and people trying to push scumish ideas. As Kurumi made the statement of role cops being the best form of cop he is obviously scum.
Now lets continue finding the rest of his team as it appears they are going to out themselves easily. Explanation came 6 hours later. On August 21 2012 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 16:16 Dirkzor wrote:Oh god. 7 pages of nothingness so far. Oh and btw I'm to.. No... not that. Horrible way to enter a thread. On August 20 2012 07:41 Drazerk wrote: ##Take In Sunlight
##Solar Beam: VisceraEyes On August 20 2012 07:56 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:55 strongandbig wrote:On August 20 2012 07:52 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:51 Toadesstern wrote:On August 20 2012 07:48 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: as if. I'll consider that a troll and if you really do damage I'll blast right back.
Also: sup guyses I GOT A KP ROLE OUT OF MY TROLL Basically all I wanted I said you're trolling. Go figure what that might mean for my post. Still you wouldn't do the threat if you couldn't back up with something other than a half assed vote that means nothing soooooo... why were you trying to out kp roles? Track the damage track the scum Since this is the most interesting thing so far I'll guess its also the best way to start. Drazerk's maybe fake solar beam doesn't make any sense. I know its Drazerk so in that way I could be excused. But the way he explained it doesn't fit a Drazerk move (as I remember him from last I played). I would have expected a more "Because I wanted too" response. All that is meta and not super reliable. But "Track the damage track the scum" doesn't even make sense. Even if you know that Toad have a KP doesn't make it easier to find scum? I dislike Drazerk's posting so far... I end it with this lulz: On August 20 2012 10:44 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. Theres no real way for me to stop looking like scum with my play style and its why you will need to kill me (I said kill not lynch) before Lylo other whys ill make an awful call at a critical situation and lose town the game or you will all suspect me and lose town the game. Man, I think dirk just claimed scum with this post. hurrah Explanation came 5 hours later. On August 20 2012 10:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 10:28 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote:On August 20 2012 10:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 20 2012 10:17 Drazerk wrote: I'm with wiggles there are super powers out there that prey on certain information being known (Steamship 4 shot sniper comes to mind)
So the following -
No pokemon names No Type No role information No claiming medic to save scum
Anyone who does this will probably just be shot down or turned green Why do you keep stating obvious things -_- I have my reasons I hope they don't revolve around you using the argument later of "look at how helpful I was being, I clearly cannot be scum" because well, general advice to a group of players who at this point should all know the basics of playing clearly wouldn't need said advice. I never defend myself You should know this by now Then you should really stop playing so scummy. Playing as you are now reaks almost as distinctly red as mr kurumi over there. He smells bad. No case. On August 21 2012 05:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Chezinu has not yet tried to make a new house called the chezinu house, fake claimed a role, or said hes brown. Guy is mafia yo. No case. On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/ mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. No case on Bum, and flimsy reasoning on Mementoss. On August 22 2012 11:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at.
So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) How is dirk helping? I would like a detailed response on that. I will agree that hopeless is likely scum at this point though. No case here either. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Reasoning is based on activity... On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. First time BC has called someone red and then actually made any kind of quick follow up with actual reasoning for it. He was still asked for his reasoning before he gave it though. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!! So all in all, according to BC , we have a 9-person scum team of: Kurumi Drazerk Dirkzor Chezinu Mementoss Bumatlarge Hopeless1der Misder Mattchew Only one of these accusations had any sort of case or reasoning to go along with it when he posted it. Two of them had cases posted many hours after the actual accusation. So, that's either 8 or 6 people he has called scum without any kind of case or reasoning to back it up. But in the post I have quoted up at the top, BC says that one of the reasons I'm looking bad is that I called out "people" without a case. That's hypocrisy and contradiction at it's finest. In addition, the very fact that BC has called out so many people without any reasoning is alarming as well. He likes to call people out as not being useful to town or helping the town at all, which is funny when you look at his own posts. Basically, they consist of three things: -Making accusations with no case/reasoning -Role/setup speculation and general advice -Backing up his accusations only when asked Besides the couple cases he has actually bothered to explain, I wouldn't call his posts very "helpful". If you look through his posts without treating his posting as a whole, you might be tricked into thinking he's helping the town or actively scumhunting, but all he's doing is posting accusations that accomplish nothing and do nothing to help us kill scum. Now, the last thing to note is the general attitude with which BC has been treating his cases, particularly the one on Dirkzor today. He doesn't sound like he cares that much about lynching his target. This is a jarring distinction from the way he addresses the players he's accusing. In several posts, BC has claimed that Dirk has claimed scum, says that he's "clearly" acting anti-town, and makes another post where he just calls him mafia plainly. Basically, he says with complete confidence that Dirkzor is 100% scum. However, there aren't really any posts in his filter where he asks for other people to vote for Dirkzor, or challenges their choice of lynch target. So, he's not actively pushing people to lynch Dirk, which is weird considering his posts say that he knows he's scum. Next, is his change in tone after the Day 1 Dirkzor lynch failed: On August 22 2012 07:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 22 2012 04:05 Mementoss wrote:On August 22 2012 03:54 Toadesstern wrote: mementoss what's your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson? Drazerk - commented more in detail before but troll bad town for now Dirkzor - the only thing suspicious about him seems to be his mess up in meta to try and make imallinson look worse than he is. I think this could be an honest mistake however. Most people voting for Dirkzor are people I don't trust, makes me uneasy. imallinson - will probably be where I'm placing my vote. I commented on it a bit before but will re-iterate. His initial posts were made to look like he contributed and actually tried drag day 1 discussion backwards. He did nothing for scum hunting and when criticized on this fact made a half ass case on SnB just to say he did. Spent most of the time defending himself which shittered up the thread and buried useful posts that were scum hunting at the time, it looks really bad in context. Also in the defence of himself he threw the heat onto dirkzor, who was an easy target because he had early heat in this game anyways. To take this further, his scum buddy who he planned this with, BC, immediately made a case onto dirkzor and got the wagon rolling. Look at the people voting for him, can you honestly say any of them look better than neutral to you?In this order: BC, imallinson, VE, mattchew, misder. I would like to hear your take on Dirkzor vs Drazerk vs imallinson additionally. ##Unvote: Mattchew ##Vote: Imallinson Well as you called me scum, and sheeped onto a now confirmed town player as well as lied in the bolded section. Guess what duder, I was putting heat and pressure on both draz + dirk before a case on allinson was EVER MADE. Now obviously thats only a minor lie, but given that I had out right said Dirk Scumclaimed well before that its still a lie. Also given how people voted. Dirk/mementoss/bumatlarge for likely reds. On August 23 2012 13:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: regardless at this time I still feel that dirk or wiggles are better lynches then mattchew so I am voting there.
Vote: dirkzor On August 23 2012 13:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 13:34 Drazerk wrote: Personally I'd rather kill Wiggles / Mattchew over Dirk but thats because I honestly get no vibes from the case and I hate voting on things I don't care about. Honestly the only vibes I get from mattchew are bad townie at the moment. Could that mean red? yes but i feel its less likely. I am fine with a wiggles or dirk situation with current preference to dirk only given that he has done far more to get on my radar. You at least have a reason to not want to kill dirk though which is more than most have. Now Dirkzor has gone from being 100% scum to being "likely scum". Also, his two posts addressing him today are saying that he's "fine" with a dirk lynch, or that he's a better lynch than mattchew. This is different from saying that he thinks Dirkzor is the best lynch, or the person we should for sure kill today. Notice the tentativeness compared to how he acted on Day 1. It's a complete departure from how he was treating him before, and he doesn't give a reason for such a change in his posts. Indeed, he even continues to press Dirkzor into Night 1. So, why the caution and tentativeness from him now? It's because he's sounding out the lynch. He can't just abandon Dirkzor, because of how hard he pressed him on Day 1. As well, there was an anti-Wiggles sentiment that began during Night 1, and now he's saying he'd like to lynch me possibly. However, he doesn't make a strong push one way or the other. His posts are saying that he could go either way, and that he's OK with either one of us being lynched. It's because he's trying to sound out the way town sentiment is running, and wants to leave himself outs in case he comes under opposition. He's setting himself up to keep tunneling Dirkzor without doing anything to really get him killed, while also keeping open the possibility of switching to me if it turns out that's how people want to run Day 2. Therefore: ##Vote: BloodyC0bblerI've outlined what I think of him and his play above. The guy is scum, and he's who we should be lynching today. He's trying to get by with superficial "contributions", and has been playing in a self-contradictory and hypocritical manner since he's first started posting. We need to kill him today, or else he's going to just float by as people give him a pass for doing a minimal amount of anything. + Show Spoiler [Free Bonus Content] +On August 23 2012 10:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:32 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:24 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:23 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote:On August 23 2012 10:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously if you are not being sarcastic that is my thought process I still like dirk as red, and wiggles has done absolutely nothing to help town period this game. He however has managed to find time to criticize people and claim they must be red with 0 case. (see bugs' post a few pages ago on wiggles to see what I mean). But mattchew has done something to help town? :S I found SnB as town, and I am pretty sure VE is town too now. so thats pretty helpful what exactly have you done meme? other than bandwagon a townie lynch? you do realize you just claimed scum here right? I dont get it either Because he has done nothing useful (so far) to help the town in any way. To come out and say "i found blah as town and I think blah is town" is great. You know who likes finding town? or more specifically, differentiating town from third party or town from mafia? Not fucking townies. Saying your green reads is awesome, but if you don't state your red cases with actual reasons and instead just hop on wagons / spout green reads you are likely not town. On August 23 2012 10:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 10:18 Kurumi wrote:On August 23 2012 10:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On August 23 2012 10:15 Mattchew wrote:On August 23 2012 10:13 Mementoss wrote: Mattchew Heist Misder WBG
Haven't heard much from these pokemon lately. interesting, why not wiggles or dirk in that list? He excluded scum From the list obviously So you are defending all those people? KIta died , chez died , bum died ... Who is left , my dear Cobbler? All of them? no, but clear ignorance of people who should still be in the spotlight is ridiculous. Of that list only wbg to me is a town read and the other three are null's. Misder is likely scum based on similar level to his scum levels but hes also notorious for lurking period. Besides the fact that finding town helps find scum through the process of elimination and helps give people "cred", these posts by BC are another example of the terrible "contributions" he makes and why I think he's scum. He calls out Mattchew for calling people town. Mattchew says here that he thought S&B was town (who was flipped), and that he finds VE to be town. BC proceeds to flip out at him and call him scum because he lists VE as a green read. Not exactly "spout[ing] green reads", as BC puts it. Funny is that 13 minutes before that BC made a post of his own saying he has a green read on WBG, which is the same level of pointing out greens that Mattchew was guilty of. Also funny, because Mattchew has posted suspicions and reads and BC claims he has done none of that in favour of pointing out tons of greens. As well, there's another condemnation of calling people red without a case. Hilarious stuff. Set trap, bait, trap sprung. You caught a wiggles. Now wiggles whats awesome is that I was never sure if you were just being lazy, or just red. Easiest way to do that is to set out some bait to see who jumps on me. Given the death of Chez and Toad already for your team, you knew you'd have to take out one of the more well known players fast or risk being slaughtered. Thankfully I knew how to draw out some scum. You see wiggles, by forcing you to justify your earlier post by giving you the "weaker" target to jump at I knew you'd target me. You know, just like your team opted to try and drop VE day 1 and failed? This time I put myself in the shoes of the person who would be attacked as I like the spotlight. Now to start with your horrific case in which I will refute it, then toss the ball back in your scummy court. You start by saying that you only said "you believe one of my and bugs must be scum" You then say i am acting defensively, although I only barely mention you in passing, while the person who made a giant post to attack your play (which only appeared after you called two people out mind you) was ignored. Considering you so obviously cherry picked the case you would find easier to make it is obvious you would ignore the person who was obviously more "defensive". Anyone who has played with me before will recognize based on largess of posts and tone of posts on if im on the offensive or defensive. Nice try lying though. As for my reason on why I believe you are scum? I told people to look at bugs' post that he had already made on you. As you ignored that bit I will toss it in here for all to read. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 06:02 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. I agree with most of this. Based on how the wagons went I don't think Dirkzor is scum. I unfortunately was not available to reverse-snowball the allinson lynch. From the looks of it I should've known he was town when so many people jumped on at once. I do disagree, however, with your assumption that one of the wagons was started by scum. #1, I'm town and that leaves BC (and I don't think he is scum ATM either). The fact that you casually push this is really disconcerting, though. You did nothing to stop either wagon and now you're seemingly trying to push blame and culpability based on weak and faulty assumptions onto myself + BC. If you legitimately thought one of us was scum then I'd expect you to actually come forth with reasons but you have simply seeded doubt. ___________________________________ I'm okay with Mattchew dying as he seems particularly lazy this game. From what I recall he doesn't like playing scum (and this was something he stressed in my games) so I think the case on him does have merit from a meta standpoint. I'm unsure what to think of Wiggles based on his last post since he seems to be making summaries that make sense, but making accusations that don't. If I die he should be watched carefully. Also if I die, newer players take note: Toad, BC, VE, bum, Kita, and Zephirdd are all also good targets to watch for in coming days as they are all capable as scum and are all harder to pin early. I would argue that if any of them seem "off their game" then they're probably scum. In particular I would rate Kita as the best scumhunter in this game, so if he's alive and somehow not dangerous to scum then he should be lynched immediately. So far he's done very little so it is certainly possible we may be going in thatdirection. Now his points on you are exactly why I believe you are scum. You see, you and I were on a mafia team once where you and I did exactly what bugs outlined in that post. Exactly to a fucking tee. You know you are caught, and you know I have already bagged another of your team and now you are running scared. Next we have you attempting to throw mud at me for wait, what? Day 1 early game posts? You know, when people were trolling and being faggots? Anyone reading would know those are my early reads based on how people are playing. If they had been solid reads backed up by more than a gut feeling you would have seen me build cases and push their lynch as I did dirkzor. You did notice I spent the majority of the day pushing one target right? Or are you opting to try and cover the fact that I have forced people into posting, pushed my best read, and even *gasp* put pressure on people for bad play. Anyone is free to look through my filter, then they can open and compare to yours. you have 13 posts as I am writing this (ignored your /in post) I have 41. I pushed my best read all day 1, I have called people out for being red. Yes I have called out many people based on random gut feelings or horrific play done by said player. Given that one of those gut reads was accurate and so far only 1 confirmed wrong I am doing fairly well. Who do you think is red wiggles? Me? Who else, lets see in all those 13 posts you You accuse myself and VE. In two game days, and all the content posted and given deaths of players and flips You have found two suspects. Yet you spend more time early on trying to link me to players like toad, make mention that you dislike my posting but rather than attempting to do anything about it you swap over to VE saying that you won't lynch grush until he answers your questions to verify his alignment basically. Yet hes back, hes been back for awhile. You know what you haven't done? What you said you were going to do. you also said this as your main argument to lynch VE Day 1 Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 16:47 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 21 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: If there's no support for it, then I'll entertain the cases put forth. There isn't much more to say on the matter, and anyone who dwells on this should be put under scrutiny. It's a vote like any other vote, I've given my reasoning for it - it's up to you guys to convince me that your read on random player is better than my seething hatred for grush' playstyle. I can tell you without a doubt that attempting to bully me for it is not going to work. The problem with this is that it isn't about finding scum. As a townie, you're supposed to look at all available information and decide who is most likely to be scum. You don't say, "I don't like this guy, so I'm voting him and it's up to you to convince me to kill scum instead of him". You're taking any responsibility for having to do anything on Day 1 away from yourself and putting it onto other players. I'm surprised all the people voting for All-In Tim for deferring his opinion to the judgement of others aren't on you for the same thing. ##Vote: VE Note the bolded Parts Then go back and look at the section of bugs post above that I bolded. You directly are calling out two players for two bandwagons forming (no shit typically 1-2 people start analysis on someone that gets a vote rolling) However you specify the no strong leaders emerged while you yourself have done nothing til this point to help direct the town in any way. Thus you are putting onus on myself and bugs as you state one of us must be scum while leaving out the fact that you did absolutely nothing to stop the days actions. If you didn't agree or believed this while it was going on you as town would have put a stop to it rather than "summarizing the day" You also did exactly what you called VE out for as your primary reason to vote for him. Cute that you like inconsistencies. You claim that I am pushing misdirection off one post when you made one yourself doing the same (in regards to myself and bugs) you then do the exact same thing that you called out and voted to lynch someone for yet its ok for you to be hypocritical. Anyone can compare our filters. It is fairly obvious that I am around and as things happen I post on them. Be it lengthy or not is a moot point. Spotting someones scum tells/bad plays and calling them out don't require large post by post analysis, nor do they need indepth behavioural analysis when all you do is put heat on someone for said behaviour. Given that you are misrepresenting my posts, and have waited in the shadows to cherry pick while misrepresenting my posts shows how desperate your team is at this moment. Regardless you have outed yourself as scum and will die for it either by lynch or bullet. Its now merely up to the town. Also I would like to draw everyones attention to how he analyzed me. He took an insane care to talk about my case on dirkzor as minutely as possible. Keeping in mind I have spent more time talking about that lynch of all my reads than any of the others (thus my most comfortable read). Yet he ignores my longer posts and instead concentrates on the posts that are designed to initiate dialogue or minor pressure people. Why would someone who is so sure he is correct on his read not attempt to discredit my dirk case or find flaws in those posts as to why I am red? Simple. If he was town doing a post by post method he would opt to find the faulty logic or the like from where I had most invested myself rather than random small posts. As such he is banking on people not actually re reading day 1, or even both our filters to figure out how full of shit he is. Everyone should at this point in time be lynching dirkzor or mrwiggles Both will bleed red. A lot of BC's case was based on how Wiggles responded to BC's "trap." There's some "we've been scum together and this is how you acted then," a lot of BC-specific reasoning. So, at least for me, when I read over BC's case, it doesn't speak to me quite as strongly as it would to him, because it's based on his own experience that we don't have.
AMG BUT BC WUZ SHOT!1!!1!!! Nobody cares. Maybe he was shot by town. Maybe by scum. It doesn't matter. Town shoots him because they think he's scum, scum shoot him because he's got good reads, scum shoot him to make Wiggles/Dirkzor look bad, there are enough explanations that the shot doesn't matter.
What DOES matter is that BC was town, and BC had a big ol' scumread on Wiggles. I haven't played with BC, but I'll trust Kenpachi on things like - + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 17:08 Kenpachi wrote: you cant beat a town bc. hes a monster On August 24 2012 09:12 Kenpachi wrote: uh.. i trust BC. im sorry but when he gets it going, hes probably the best player in the game. - So we've got a townie that generally plays a really solid town game making a case on Wiggles based on his own knowledge.
Mr.Wiggles' play this game There's not much to it. Light mentions of Grush, a few silly moments like his pokemon theme song. Two things that stick out to me are: - Not a ton of contributions. That alone isn't scummy, but keep it in mind. Small filter, most of it is responding to BC's case and calling out BC.
- Some ... silliness? Pokemon theme song, the bit on Chezinu being scummy - + Show Spoiler +
On August 20 2012 14:21 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:51 Chezinu wrote:On August 20 2012 09:08 Drazerk wrote: Analysing how people join the thread is probably the most interesting part of the game Your right... Look what I discovered: On August 17 2012 15:06 wherebugsgo wrote: /in On August 17 2012 15:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: /in They joined the g ame at the exact same time. The must be Mafia!Rocket peoples! You dastardly fiend, you've discovered the secret to my plan! But, you didn't count on one thing: You're also a member of Rocket People! You're our sleeper agent. You know it too. That's why you're subconsciously claiming scum. On August 24 2012 10:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I'm town. I even wrote a song for you about it. + Show Spoiler +I wanna be the very best, Like no one ever was! To catch them is my real test, To lynch them is my cause!
I will read my way through the thread, Searching far and wide Each mafia to understand The scummy that's inside!
Mafia, it's you and me! I know it's my destiny! Mafia, oh, you're my best friend In our town we must defend! Mafia, a heart so true! Analysis will pull us through!
You're scummy and I'll lynch you, Mafia, gotta lynch 'em all! - Silliness alone isn't super duper scummy. But this is one reason the lack of activity/small filter concerns me. In a vacuum, maybe he's busy. But if he's putting the effort into this game and writing parody theme songs, playing with chezinu, then where is that effort in his other play? - It's nowhere! Look at hi D1. Doesn't want to vote Grush or push him hard. Votes VE, then disappears. Doesn't try to get more votes, doesn't mention VE later. The vast majority of his play is responding to BC's case and fighting with BC. So we know he's putting effort into silliness, effort into responding to BC, effort into chiding town for how D1 played out + Show Spoiler +
On August 23 2012 05:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: These are my observations.
Town had absolutely no direction on Day 1, and no strong town leaders emerged.
This shows that scum weren't trying hard to seize thread control, and that scum were content with the way things were going. They didn't feel like they had to have any of their players act very pro-active and try to misdirect the town overtly. Meaning, that scum didn't feel threatened
So what does it mean that scum didn't feel threatened? It means that they didn't feel like they were in any danger of actually being killed/lynched. So, this tells us that either both major candidates were town, or that if Dirk is scum, mafia didn't think he would die.
That's pretty obvious though, as those are the only two possibilities, so here's my interpretation of the situation. There wasn't really any concrete push to kill imallinson as compared to Dirk. A lot of the people voting for them were saying they were fine with either dying, and there weren't really any large arguments comparing the merits of killing Dirk vs. imallinson. Both of the lynch trains developed in a way that was insular from the other. This means that who got lynched more or less would just come down to which wagon sheeping townies decided to hop on. This isn't a good situation for mafia because if they hope for chance it might mean that their own member gets bandwagoned to a point where they can't bring it back, or at least to a point where bringing it back puts them under a lot of suspicion. So in that situation, they would make a case for why lynching the townie was better than lynching their scum buddy to prevent the wagon from going the wrong way. But, no one did that. That implies to me that scum didn't care which person got lynched which further implies that both candidates were town.
Further supporting that, is the earlier observation that we didn't really get anything done on Day 1, no strong leaders emerged, and no direction was given. Scum are doing good just by having that happen, and it looks like they didn't feel the need to do anything else, because everything was going their way in terms of the bandwagons. They didn't have to fight for their buddy, because he wasn't up for the lynch.
In my opinion, at least one of the wagons was started by scum (BC/WBG). As well, I find it likely that the scum team split their vote between the two candidates for the most part in order to help prevent people from pointing out one of the lynches as a scum bandwagon, as well as to set themselves up as opposing each other to stop associative tells.
Right now I'm just waiting for the night to end, because kills and vig shots should hopefully clear the air a little and make things more transparent. , and . . . that's it. - His play this game reminds me somewhat of his scum play in LV - here. Wiggles was GF, we elected him mayor, and he just sort of sat back all game. It was noticeable there because he was inactive yet voted mayor, but this game feels similar. He pops in N1 to chide town for day play. He pops in late D2 to talk about misder and hopeless. But there's just not much to hold him accountable for. His only strong read was BC, and BC is now dead. In LV, he made a lot of small/medium-size accusations of players, either picking off problematic town players or focusing on low-trust townies. This game? Some focus on problematic town players (BC) and also the focus on low-trust townies (mentions of Grush, posts on Hopeless). So (1) BC felt like Wiggles was scum because of his past scum play, but I wasn't in those games. (2) I feel like Wiggles is scum because of his past scum play, from a different game than BC was drawing from.
tl;dr - BC thought Wiggles was scum. BC was town. BC is apparently a very good town player. Wiggles has not been helpful this game, and his only period of activity was him sparring with BC. Wiggles' play feels similar to his scum play in LV, never at the forefront, picking off strong townies or weak townies, no focus in the middle. Wiggles has put effort into parodying the pokemon theme song and effort into defending himself from BC, but no real effort into the rest of the game.
I'll try and get more thoughts out today. Right now, I'm still not loving Misder's play. I'm mildly concerned about HiroPro, but need to look into that further. Filter is a lot of one-liners, some sheeping/questions, nothing really proactive. I don't like that I'm saying this, but got feeling is that...I might agree with Grush on BioSC. Not entirely sure there yet. Almost 100% convinced that Mementoss is town based on one thing he said, and I seem to have good luck when I get that feeling.
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Been assuming Grush is either a DT or some kind of assassin role with a check. Although it's entirely possible that he's just dicking around.
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Housekeeping. Shot/Kill flavors
+ Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 01:55 GreYMisT wrote: Meowth used payday on VisceraEyes!
Ouch that hurt!
(colors are not reflective of alignment) On August 23 2012 06:18 GreYMisT wrote: Bumatlarge, the Voltorb and Chezinu, the Gastly fainted due to psychic damage!
StrongandBig, The Charmander became confused! He Fried himself in his confusion! StrongandBig fainted!
Kitaman27, The Clefairy was captured by Team Rocket!
Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end On August 23 2012 20:19 deconduo wrote: BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated. On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. Wherebugsgo, the MewTwo/Mr. Mime, got too much sun. We know that the amount of scum KP is hidden. Out of the flavors we've seen, I would think "captured by Team Rocket" is the mafia factional kill. If that's the case, then mafia's KP was disrupted last night.
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On August 27 2012 05:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I split this up for the people who don't like to read and think anything longer than 5 lines is massive, so a shout-out to you!
Here's the first challenge. Someone has to explain why being inactive is a sign of being scum. They also have to explain why not being invested in the game or not caring is a sign of being scum. Anyone who mistakes active lurking for inactivity loses the game. Please speak in general terms and not in terms of specific players, since I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results.
Go! To the extent that you're saying that inactivity isn't necessarily scummy, you're correct and I agree with you.
At this point though, not all your votes are due to a generic "inactivity = scummy" rule. Some may be, and some may be pure sheep votes.
BC mentioned that specific to you, the way you're playing this game was similar to your scumplay in past games. I know that, to me, the way you're playing this game feels similar to your scumplay in LV. At least some of the accusations in general are not an indictment of inactivity in general, but specific to your play.
While you want someone to defend that heuristic "in general terms and not in terms of specific players," not everyone is indicting you in general terms. Moreover, if the accusation is no good when put in general terms, how is your counterargument, which seems to be I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results a good counter? If you don't like the general rule because it's not specific, don't give a general defense. Plenty of inactive players have flipped town, but that doesn't somehow negate the fact that inactive players can also flip scum.
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First off, can the person who created the role for Magnemite please confirm that Supersonic confuses the target and redirects its action to a random pokemon? Specifically the "confuse" portion of that.
Role/Ability Claims Zephirdd (Unknown pokemon, "medic" role) - + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2012 08:28 Zephirdd wrote: How about the "lynch whoever throws KP around randomly"?
Also I am a medic. Go figure. I'm still a medic and I'll still protect someone tonight, don't worry. Also, I may have claimed medic because I knew the strategy would be spoiled so scum would never shoot me WHAT NOW SCUM HUH COME ON SHOOT ME ohwait you will not WIFOMWIFOWMIFOM TAKE IT SCUM anyway
and possibly Pretty sure our bulletproof medic protected someone who evolved. Kurumi (Caterpie/Metapod, unknown power) - + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2012 07:49 Kurumi wrote: Also my role could singlehandedly imbalance game in someone's favour just fyi My role is maybe two tiers above Oracle I have only one power this sucks I am Butterfly and I can roleblock people and remove their resistances in one action. I am an useless role for town. My power is pure scum power. If I was a Framer with cancel resistance my power would be on par with Oracle. Maybe I will be able to roleblock a dangerous individual. I am not a vig , dt or medic for fucks sake , I am a roleblocker cancelling resistances. Nah I lied about my role to help Drazerk Also I am Caterpie. Sue me. I am braindead so I forgot that Draz made my role and I am the laser guy lol Drazerk (Unknown bug type, can use "sunny day") - + Show Spoiler +I'm a bug type so fire / flying / rock types - Bring it Concerning the power he created, presumably Kurumi's Claiming who you made the role for OR what your role is will result in you being turned into a VT - This is multi target infinite use with no drawbacks (ok one minor drawback but lol who cares about that when you have an unstoppable VT laser(They will never know about it even though it is in effect right now))
It took a lot of arguments to get this role into the game but there is only one way around the power that I can't divulge but should be obvious if it is triggered however those already effected won't be able to do anything about it sadly
##Sunny Day
Fire damage now does 0.5kp more damage which shouldn't be too bad when you consider we just killed 1 of 3 fire pokemon in the first generation
Water damage now does 0.5kp LESS which should reduce over all KP considering just how many water pokemon there is in every generation (so many water pokemon) and put a lot more focus on the lynches rather than all the crazy powers. Grush (Unknown pokemon, vengeful role(?)) - + Show Spoiler +Oh yea vigis hit me see what happens ;D No, do it, I dare you. Regardless if my abilities are true, scum thinks I'm screwing with town and won't shoot me unless all the people left in the thread are scum which wouldn't suprise me, and town vigis, I hope you realize there are much better targets than me, I would suggest Biosc. Mattchew (Pikachu, vig role) - + Show Spoiler +i am pikachu, a blue pokemon, who can do .5 kp of damage every night JingleHell (Magnemite, has "Supersonic" which can redirect abilities) - + Show Spoiler +By the way, if Mattchew used his KP, it didn't land on target, since he was confused, courtesy of yours truly, Magnemite. In fact, reading the flavor text, it may have inadvertently been the cause of death of Toad, going by the "shocking end" bit. I cause an ability to hit a random target. I'm not entirely sure why the flavor is different than that of a confused Pokemon hitting themselves, though. Supersonic. Confusion that makes it hit the wrong target. Random target, as determined by host. I'm guessing that's what toasted Toad, the Giovanni with a Meowth.
Everyone else alive is unclaimed, as far as I could tell.
Extra Stuff
Shot/kill flavors: + Show Spoiler +On August 26 2012 07:50 austinmcc wrote:Housekeeping. Shot/Kill flavors + Show Spoiler +On August 22 2012 01:55 GreYMisT wrote: Meowth used payday on VisceraEyes!
Ouch that hurt!
(colors are not reflective of alignment) On August 23 2012 06:18 GreYMisT wrote: Bumatlarge, the Voltorb and Chezinu, the Gastly fainted due to psychic damage!
StrongandBig, The Charmander became confused! He Fried himself in his confusion! StrongandBig fainted!
Kitaman27, The Clefairy was captured by Team Rocket!
Toadestern, as Giovanni with a Meowth met a shocking end On August 23 2012 20:19 deconduo wrote: BloodyC0bbler has been incinerated. On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Heist, the Koffing, has been electrocuted. Wherebugsgo, the MewTwo/Mr. Mime, got too much sun. We know that the amount of scum KP is hidden. Out of the flavors we've seen, I would think "captured by Team Rocket" is the mafia factional kill. If that's the case, then mafia's KP was disrupted last night. Evolutions: + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2012 06:18 deconduo wrote: Magikarp has evolved into Gyrados Bulbasaur has evolved into Ivysaur On August 26 2012 06:14 deconduo wrote: Caterpie has evolved into Metapod Dratini has evolved into Dragonair
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On August 28 2012 03:46 HiroPro wrote: austin, what do you think of VE? I caught the first couple days secondhand, so some of the timing may be missing, but:
- I got a townie feel from the start of his D1 play. Seems to be playing the game, responding to votes on him, making some dumb comments, asking some good questions. The grush stuff was meh, but not necessarily scummy meh.
- His case on zephirdd doesn't super-convince me, but doesn't feel forced.
- Concerning his claim of taking a shot, there was initially some thought that him saying it wasn't effective helped us deduce his type. I don't think it does...yet. None of the flips have included effectiveness modifiers, so perhaps we don't get to see them? If anyone HAS seen effectiveness attached to KP, they should speak up, because it might point to VE's type.
- The dropoff in activity concerns me, especially because he was active early. Prolonged swings in activity (not explainable by work/night out/etc.) do worry me.
I'm still much more convinced about Wiggles atm. I remember almost being convinced by Wiggles's defense in LV, and so haven't been fully responding to him in this game. I did go back and look at some past games, draw some conclusions, but right now I think there's enough to lynch him without having to derail the thread going back and forth with more in-depth analysis than is out there. I think BC's case was alright, I know BC was town, I am trusting that BC is a good townie, and I have my own suspicions.
If Wiggles flips red, then VE looks a little more interesting to me. Could see D1 being Toad/Wiggles distancing themselves from VE (Toad and VE at odds, Wiggles votes VE and left his vote on VE). Toad dying N1 unexpectedly (if we assume pikachu kp + redidrection from supersonic) sort of lessens the value of that plan. The dropoff in activity COULD be because they were active to set up that distancing, then had the scheme ruined with Toad's death and so no longer needed to be active in order to plant that idea in people's heads.
So right now, I'm not worried. If Wiggles flips red, I'll be a little more worried, but a Toad/VE/Chez/Wiggles scumteam seems a little stacked. That's another reason I'm not liking VE for scum, because it certainly seems like SOMEONE out of heist/misder/BioSC/hiropro (yes, you're included there for me) should be scummy, and then that'd most likely be the full team (although there could still be more third parties).
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On August 28 2012 04:09 Mementoss wrote: I already confirmed it in the thread. I just want to double-super-mega confirm that "confuse" is a part of this thing. If the kill flavors are an indicator, then we need to nail down what actually causes confusion and what just redirects stuff.
On August 28 2012 04:32 HiroPro wrote: what is this crap. are you seriously fucking trying to figure out a scum team based on balance. Eh, not at the moment?
You can read my thoughts on Wiggles. None of that rests on balance. But once we've flipped another scum or two, balance MAY color my thoughts.
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For those NOT voting Wiggles, do you find him townie this game? Did you previously find him scummy but then find his defense compelling? Did you mean to vote him but misspell his name?
If you fall into the second category, imagine a different game. A game in which Wiggles is just sort of in the background, looks mildly scummy to most people but has never been far away the leading lynch candidate. Now imagine Wiggles becomes the lynch candidate and starts getting pushed. Now imagine he posts this defense - + Show Spoiler +On June 12 2012 12:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:The Spirited Defense Of One Mr. Wiggles, Mayor of Liquidia Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 08:48 Toadesstern wrote: Here's why Wiggles is mafia and Kenpachi (proably) is not:
Mafia gets to choose who gets what role: Do you think mafia would give the GF role to some random noob? No they'd give it to Wiggles / Kenpachi. Now keep that in mind. They know Wiggles is going to get GF. Perfect scenario for him to run for mayor as mafia. He should have been shot loooong ago if he's really town but whatever, maybe mafia just didn't shoot him because people thought he might be town. Anyways if I were mafia I'd 100% make my vet in the team run for mayor as GF. If he's not shot people will DT him and see he's green and therefore okay. Perfect scenario for mafia. This doesn't do anything to point out that I'm scum. I'm town, so that's why I show up green to checks, if you believe I'm a GF, I can't argue against it except on behavioural and logical grounds. The thing is, what you think of me colors the check. If I turn up green, I'm a GF, if I turn up red, you'd just say I was scum (even though it means I'm framed). Also the thing about the check is that it relies on the supposition that scum have a GF in the first place. There's absolutely no assurance of that. From what Grey has said, it seems like scum got a list of roles and got to distribute them themselves. So, the entirety of my check being wrong is based on the chance scum have a GF. Personally, I find it a lot more likely that scum got a role-cop, to counter the large amount of blues in the game, and it also helps explain how scum managed to snipe both BH and supersoft on Night 2. I find it pretty unlikely that that happened purely by chance, so it suggests to me that scum have a role cop. Also, mafia haven't shot me because I've been under suspicion since Night 1, been relatively inactive, and because I'm a prime mislynch target as we move towards the end of the game. If I'm scum, town automatically loses in a late-game scenario where me and any hypothetical team-mates can just outvote the town and cause a no-lynch. Scum know this, and town know it, so everyone's going to be really skittish as we go to the end. The thing is though, in a lot of cases, we lose if we mislynch. So, scum aren't going to shoot me now, unless I somehow manage to convince everyone in the game I'm town beyond a shadow of a doubt. The problem is that probably won't happen, or scum will just keep trying to call me scum (See: Hyaach, Papapanda, Kenpachi), to try to get you to mislynch me so that they'll win. They're hoping town get so scared they'll just lynch me on the chance I could be scum, and then we lose. Show nested quote +Wiggles does nothing:Check Wiggles filter and point me to something that gave you the feeling Wiggles is actually helping town. I can't find a single moment like that with the exception of the Maju vote but we'll take about that later. Yeah Kenpachi is the same but Kenpachi is always useless, no matter of alignment. Wiggles usually ends up being helpful as town and he's just not this game. What happened d1:We basicly had 2 options for a d1 lynch imo: Zealos and Kita. Zealos would have been the cowards way that would have ended up being right and Kita would have been the balls-of-steel way that would have ended up with town loosing a vet and a medic but noone knew about the medic at that point in time. What did Wiggles do? He basicly policy lynched a noob. Noone had a read on Sinenesis that was anything more that "that guy's a noob". Nothing, and that lynch was horribad. The most useless lynch I've ever seen. True-random-chance to hit mafia combined with 0 information town can get. I would consider lynching Kita d1 ( with the information that he's a medic!) a better lynch than this guy. Lynching Sinensis was the best move you can make from a mafia point of view. You leave town shattered in pieces asking each other "gawd, what a noob, what happened?" without giving them ANY information and at the same time it's literally the SAFEST lynch ever if you are scared. Why am I talking about a safe lynch? Picture Wiggles lynching Kita. What would have happened? People would run wild and accuse Wiggles for mislynching a vet on d1. So there's a nother reason why Sinensis was the perfect mafia lynch.Now you could be here standing: Well Toad that's all nifty and nice but that could just be really bad luck. I'd tell you something along the lines of Yeah, that's really convenient, isn't it and argue along with my next couple of posts why that's not an option. But if you're reading this I'm probably dead so I have to get everything in here This is a flat out lie. The only push for Zealos was made by about 4 people close to the deadline, and any support for Kitaman was scattered at best. You keep overstating the sentiment of people wanting to kill them, because you were the person pushing Kita, and you were pretty buddied with the people pushing zealos (Forumite and supersoft). Go back and read the thread though, that wasn't the general feeling. I clearly stated I would lynch Sinensis, and people supported it both in thread, and with their votes for me. If no one supported a sinensis lynch and they all wanted a zealos lynch they would have voted for forumite. You're confusing what the best lynch for the day was with who you wanted to lynch. Also, I was already running for mayor. I had purposefully attracted attention to myself by running and then winning. As scum, why wouldn't I take the chance to kill off someone who could turn out to be a very strong town player before they had the chance to do anything? I would just have to weasel my way out of the lynch the next day. As town, I didn't want to just blow up a town vet because one person felt like it, or kill zealos with little discussion and no consensus when I'd already made my decision and stated it. Those would have both been rash and bad decisions. Show nested quote +Check the vote patterns and Wiggles actions:Especially the one were Manason got lynched. You remember me that night? I tried to get people off Mana and vote Maju instead because everyone who was considered to be mafia in my spreadsheet was voting Manason. Wiggles did nothing until something like 3 hours prior to the deadline. There's two important points here: 1) He started doing so REALLY LATE. We had something like 9 votes on mana and we needed 8. Don't know if it's really those numbers but it wa barely a majority. Now take that into account and consider Wiggles pushing Maju at that point of time. He could have EASILY helped pushing Maju early but he choose not to. Why? Because we had the slightest majority ever and he knew it would make him look good while knowing townies are probably to scared to get off Manason due to the fear of a No-Lynch with so little time left and couple of europeans probably already asleep. 2) Marv and ET both said they wanted to lynch Mana instead of Maju. That means Wiggles knew that we're already 2 townies short and even if townies would not be scared of the soon to be deadline it would not work out anyways because both Marv and ET both said they don't want to get off Mana at all. Example: On June 07 2012 02:36 EchelonTee wrote: what in the balls is happening? toad you want to switch lynch off manason? and well, Marv was the dude who did the case so obviously he's convinced that Manason is the better lynch as well. So really, Wiggles voting Maju instead of Mana is not alignment indicating AT ALL. If he take the "knowledge" into account that he can just tell his mafia buddies to lurk until deadline and not get back in here AND both ET and Marv not willing to vote Maju that's not a tell at all. From that point of view it is the easiest way to get towncred because he knew all along a switch is not going to happen. Now if you take the really bad timing of his posts as well that now looks like a nultell combined with a mafia agenda because clearly it was AGAIN the best move possible for a mafia. Remember what I said about the lynch earlier? Yeah another point that seems to be really bad luck for wiggles, or just plain and simple mafia agenda Again, this is not factually correct. I didn't wait until the deadline to try to do something about the lynch, that's just when I got a chance to post that day. Yes, it was close to the deadline, and that made it less likely to work. However, if you look at the voting thread and the main thread at that time, there were definitely enough people around to change the vote. + Show Spoiler [Votes] +On June 07 2012 05:12 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: ##Vote: MajuGarzett On June 07 2012 07:30 kitaman27 wrote: ##Vote Manason On June 07 2012 07:20 austinmcc wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Manason On June 07 2012 07:10 Probulous wrote: ##Vote Manason
From phone These were four people who all voted after I did. You also said you wanted to kill Maju, manason had his vote on him, and I voted him as well. There were also other people around who were posting, but didn't make votes as well. It took 8 to lynch that day, only counting our three votes and the people who voted in the voting thread, we would have had exactly 8 votes. So no, the maju lynch wasn't impossible to make happen, people just idiotically lynched manason by mistaking bad play for scummy play. The case on him was thin and basically came down to he was posting so badly he had to be scum. However, there's no way scum, especially in their first game, would say any of the things he was. The lynch was stupid, because it was just piling on to an easy target whereas maju was actually a player who had a scummy agenda and posting behaviour. Do you really think that no one in the entire game could possibly think manason was town unless they were scum and had extra knowledge? He was a bad lynch because he was an easy lynch, and his posting oozed that he was inexperienced and had no clue what he was doing. I pointed that all out, but people were either to stubborn or deaf to listen. However, to say that the lynch couldn't have happened is a lie. There were more than enough people to get him lynched, but no one wanted to change their vote or vote with me. Also, it wasn't a mafia agenda because I didn't try to take cred for it. I didn't make a post yelling at the whole town and calling them bad, or that I was the greatest because I was the only one who defended the townie, I did nothing after he was lynched but help kill Maju the next day. If I were scum, why wouldn't I try to capitalize that I just was the only person to defend the mislynch? In fact, I haven't disowned any of the things I've done in this game, and I haven't tried to take extra credit for any of the things I've done either. That's because I don't care about cred. People can judge me based on what I do, not on how much I can hype myself up for what I did right, or avoid responsibility for what I did wrong. Show nested quote +Keeping Wiggles accountableThis is just a bonus for the lulz. Remember his mayoral campaing? I said that shit is on the surface the most good looking stuff I've ever seen while not saying A THING, just like ET's campaing but ET's not Wiggles. Wiggles should know better than that. And yeah that's why both gave me a bad feeling d1. Some highlights: On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So, I'm going to start off by saying that I'm running for Leader/Vice-Leader. I'd prefer if I can hit the vice-leader spot out of the two, and I'll explain why further on. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm not going to go too deep into my past performance since I've always felt it's a waste of time and doesn't really say anything This is what I'm talking about when saying stuff that looks good but is literally nothing. This phrase looks incredible nice and is an attempt to get peoples trust. It's basicly: "see I'm not even going to try and influence you guys by posting my recent results!" which is incredible manipulative. If he's town he doesn't need to post like that. He could have just left it out, because again, the fact that he's not telling us his recent results has no purpose other than telling us that. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: It doesn't matter what you've done in past games, it matters what you're doing in this game. But, for those who really want it, I'm a decent enough scum-hunter, I'm town, and I hope I'll be able to demonstrate those to you and get elected. We should take him accountable on this one. Not for the sake of taking someone accountable because that can ruin games in lylo / mylo but he has NOT proven a thing in this game. He did nothing. Furthemore he just told us he won't talk about recent games but goes on telling us how good he is. That's not a bad sign. I did the same telling you guys I'm awesome in rainbow colors. But I didn't tell you guys I'm not going to earlier looking as manipulative as you can get. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I don't have a kill target right now, but if I'm in line to be elected leader, I will let the town know what I'm thinking with some advance notice, so as not to surprise anyone with my choice for the lynch. I'm going to play out Day 1 as normal, and as soon as I develop a decent scum read, I'll let the town know, and we can discuss it. In the end, I'm hoping we can base the game around actual discussion of scum targets instead of the trend I've seen lately of someone making a case, no one commenting on it, and then people just calling others scum with no reasoning to back it up. If you want to lynch someone, I expect you to actually come up with reasons why it's best to do so, and not just blatant sheeping. As well, if you disagree with a lynch, actually speak up. I don't even care if you're wrong, because the point of discussion is to discard the bad or wrong ideas and move forward with the good ones. Again, this is total nothingness. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: However, like I said at the beginning of my post, I'd prefer to actually be elected to the position of vice-leader, since I believe that position can be abused much more by scum being elected to it, and has the potential to generate a ton of confusion. I also don't even trust most townies to it, since lots of people will misuse the role and cause as much confusion as if scum had it. Being manipulative again. On May 27 2012 18:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm planning to play the same regardless of which position you put me in, or if you elect me at all. However, I believe I can use the Leader position effectively, but would prefer to be able to safekeep the position of Vice-leader, to keep it away from not only scum, but also compulsive townies. I'd like it if you vote for me, but you should also consider a second person you would like to be elected along with me, since for whichever role, we still need to have either a vice-leader or leader to go along with it. Come on, everyone knows that themselves... So this whole thing is based on nothingness, which is not a surprise because it's d1 and his first post. But he's trying to make it look really really good when there's no need to be that manipulative at all. Also he wants to go for pardoner instead of mayor. Also all those phrases that look good but really aren't are involved: "Doing what town wants to do rather than doing a rambo" (not what he said but something along those lines) and stuff like that. It's the same ET said and people considered to be pro-town when he said he'll lynch who town considers to be the best lynch. That's the cowards way out and already planting the excuse "Sry guys I did what you wanted to" instead of just lynching who he THOUGHT to be most likely mafia. But it sounds really good because people like hearing the guy with power is doing what we want him to do instead of doing what he wants to do because it sounds good although it really isn't. Wow, you really don't understand the point of campaigns, do you? I'm not being manipulative, I'm trying to convince people to vote for me. That's how elections work, and that's what campaigns are for. The entire purpose of that post was to establish myself as a candidate, and hopefully draw support to my candidacy. If you think that's manipulative in a malicious way, then we have pretty different conceptions of what malice is. Also again, you're not even reading what's being written, and are just making things up. You even quoted yourself where I said how I'd lynch people. Show nested quote +I don't have a kill target right now, but if I'm in line to be elected leader, I will let the town know what I'm thinking with some advance notice, so as not to surprise anyone with my choice for the lynch. I'm going to play out Day 1 as normal, and as soon as I develop a decent scum read, I'll let the town know, and we can discuss it. In the end, I'm hoping we can base the game around actual discussion of scum targets instead of the trend I've seen lately of someone making a case, no one commenting on it, and then people just calling others scum with no reasoning to back it up. If you want to lynch someone, I expect you to actually come up with reasons why it's best to do so, and not just blatant sheeping. As well, if you disagree with a lynch, actually speak up. I don't even care if you're wrong, because the point of discussion is to discard the bad or wrong ideas and move forward with the good ones. Where in this does it say I'll lynch exactly how the town wants to lynch? All I said is that I'll give advance notice of who I want to kill, and that I'd like to discuss targets. How do you get that I'll just sheep the town's reads from that? Also, you're contradicting yourself! You say here that I'm just going to sheep who the town wants to lynch, when I said no such thing, and then when you're talking about the Sinensis lynch, you said that I went against the town and lynched someone that according to you no one had a scum read on instead of zealos or kita who, again according to you, everyone thought was scum and wanted to kill. So, which one is it? Am I a sheep who just did what the town wanted on Day 1, or am I a scum rebel who killed someone useless and went against what everyone wanted to do? Again, I haven't tried to shrug off responsibility. I still stand by lynching Sinensis. I'm not going to say it was a bad choice, because it wasn't. If you disagree, fine, but that's why you didn't vote for me. I never said that I lynched him because that's what people wanted me to do. In fact, I've said near the opposite. I lynched him because people agree with my choice and voted for me. I led the charge, and I was the one who in the end was responsible for pulling the trigger. I still think I made the right choice though, and it was my voters who supported me, not myself who sheeped them. So, Toad's case is wrong. It's also not that great because it flat out refuses to look at what happened in the thread, and it's self-contradictory. I put a lot of effort into this defense, because a mislynch now will almost assure our loss, and I don't want that to happen. Hopefully I'll be able to get you to see that I'm not scum before you actually kill me.
Would that defense have convinced you? If so, that doesn't mean Wiggles is scum this game. But it does mean that scum Wiggles is good enough that he can write a solid and convincing defense of himself, because he flipped gf in that game. I agree that his calm, light defense of himself is relatively convincing, but I know that scum Wiggles can pull that off.
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On August 28 2012 05:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey austin, do you want to be a good townie and make a decent case for once? Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 08:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 27 2012 05:30 austinmcc wrote:On August 27 2012 05:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I split this up for the people who don't like to read and think anything longer than 5 lines is massive, so a shout-out to you!
Here's the first challenge. Someone has to explain why being inactive is a sign of being scum. They also have to explain why not being invested in the game or not caring is a sign of being scum. Anyone who mistakes active lurking for inactivity loses the game. Please speak in general terms and not in terms of specific players, since I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results.
Go! To the extent that you're saying that inactivity isn't necessarily scummy, you're correct and I agree with you. At this point though, not all your votes are due to a generic "inactivity = scummy" rule. Some may be, and some may be pure sheep votes. BC mentioned that specific to you, the way you're playing this game was similar to your scumplay in past games. I know that, to me, the way you're playing this game feels similar to your scumplay in LV. At least some of the accusations in general are not an indictment of inactivity in general, but specific to your play. While you want someone to defend that heuristic "in general terms and not in terms of specific players," not everyone is indicting you in general terms. Moreover, if the accusation is no good when put in general terms, how is your counterargument, which seems to be I've seen this applied over and over again with terrible results a good counter? If you don't like the general rule because it's not specific, don't give a general defense. Plenty of inactive players have flipped town, but that doesn't somehow negate the fact that inactive players can also flip scum. Ok, cool, we've established that using activity as the reason to call someone scum is silly. I propose we start policy lynching for it in future games. Just one point about your last sentence though, is that I'm not saying all inactive players are town, I'm saying that general activity isn't and shouldn't be used as, an indicator of alignment. Moving on. Let's talk about meta now that you've brought it up. Here's the second challenge. Describe my scum play from LV, including appropriate motivations for it, as well as the general state of the game as my play existed in it. Next, describe the state of this game, and how my play resembles my play when I was scum, including similar motivations. So far, the people trying to apply meta to me (including BC) have yet to provide an adequate explanation of my play in previous games as scum, and how it is similar to this game. Simply stating something does not make it so, and if you wish to use meta, you should take the time to explain yourself and demonstrate how it applies. Simply saying that someone's play reminds you of their play in another game when they were scum isn't enough to make an accusation based on meta. Doing so is the same misuse of meta that causes some people to believe that meta is useless or even detrimental in scum hunting. Meta is very useful, but only if you can substantiate it and adequately explain it. Please answer the fucking question. You're using meta as the largest basis for your case, so please explain the meta, or are you just lying through your teeth? I'm voting for you. I'm pushing for you. And I've made terrible cases in the past. But I've also made some good ones.
For right now though, I'm not going to post a big ol' meta analysis on you. If you don't get lynched, I may. But I respect your ability to defend yourself and distance yourself from teammates (Rereading LV made me notice how well you'd done that early), and for now I'm more inclined to find you scummy and see what you do on your own, rather than being the first mover and setting you up to respond.
If you're 100% intent on having a miniature proper-use-of-meta debate, it can happen postgame or in the general thread. But I picture it gumming up discussion here.
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On August 29 2012 01:48 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 01:44 Dirkzor wrote: Draz I have no clue what you are talking about. I've never played that much pokemon so care to explain it in full? If you trade pokemon you need badges for them to obey you - all the pokemon I listed are traded pokemon Was this a first generation rule? I rememeber a few evolutions were only possible after trades, but nothing about badges.
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Jingle, for what it's worth, I'm really not finding mementoss scummy. I'm okay with you not claiming your targets though, in light of the situation we're in. We know that Mattchew says he shot at dirk last night. We know that dirk is not dead. We don't know whether this is due to supersonic, a roleblock ability, a defensive ability used on dirkzor, or just generic effectiveness (Even if pikachu gets a .5 kp boost, doing 1 kp, if he fires at certain types it wouldn't be fatal).
However, scum ALSO don't know what happened to their shot last night, assuming that it missed (which I still believe). Both sides are missing some information, and unless we're really going to get something out of knowing who was supersoniced last night, I don't think it needs claiming.
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On August 29 2012 03:30 Dirkzor wrote: Just to be sure I'm not the idiot here: Mementoss or austin what is your take on the little run in I had with JH the last 2 pages? Dirk, I don't make much of it.
The entire thing starts from what is, in my mind, a misunderstanding? We have Mattchew's N1 shot allegedly getting redirected due to supersonic. Mattchew claims a shot on you N2. We currently DO NOT KNOW the result of that shot. Again. It might have been roleblocked. Might have been ineffective. You might have had protection. etc. etc. etc. So, to me, the entire thing spawns out of some nonsense about whether Kurumi got shot or not (+ Show Spoiler +On August 29 2012 01:20 Dirkzor wrote: Then that doesn't exlpain jack does it? Matt didn't target Kurumi and Jingle said (correct me if I'm wrong to lazy to look it up) that he did not use confusion on mattchew one of the nights...
Also my target was also screwed over without kurumi being in the mix... ), which has no real support based on the actions we've seen.
I think that got twisted up and you both just got snippy at each other over it. Reading over it, there's no real accusations or dispute on EITHER side of it, and I don't find either of you scummy based on the last few pages. Neither of you is really out and out accusing the other person of being scum, and neither of you really has any grounds to, nor does it feel like either side of your spat is pushing some sort of agenda, without stronger or more well-put-together accusations of the other person.
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In fact Dirk, after continuing to look over the last couple pages, I'm finding all the major commenters right now townie? Or at least not scum, I guess we could have some third parties still. Everyone seems to be struggling to pin down exactly what's happened, which feels relatively townie. In most cases, each person is trying to get information to help answer some question (what happened to last night's KP, etc.), and those feel like townie objectives to me as well. Because I'm reading both the questions and the answers sought as townie things, I'm not currently finding mementoss, JH, or you (to a lesser extent, because I still don't have a perfect grasp of the early stuff I missed and I know you were involved there).
Right now, I'm still much more convinced by Wiggles. My second tier of worry are folks like:
Misder - Doing nothing. All the stuff everyone else has said. All the stuff I didn't like at the end of D2. But also, look at Misder's vote yesterday and his earlier posts. Here's misder hedging his bets and getting a couple minor scum reads on Wiggles into the thread - + Show Spoiler +On August 26 2012 14:56 Misder wrote: Now, we had three people try to take control of town yesterday (JingleHell, Wiggles, BC before he died). The fact that neither JingleHell nor Wiggles are being as aggressive today is pretty weird, as I would have thought that at least JingleHell would have pushed for my lynch already On August 28 2012 04:42 Misder wrote: I have BioSC as my highest scum read atm. I find that he didn't really care about either lynches at all. Also, continuously saying that his scumhunting is bad as a backup.
JingleHell, I've already made a case on. I still don't like his play. The fact that he's not really pushing my lynch besides saying that he wants me dead isn't helping.
Third on the list is Wiggles, although I'm really just sheeping everyone else. I find that his case on BC was actually decent, but if BC was setting him up, then it actually makes sense (BC pretending to be a weak target so that Wiggles, who already lost two scumbuddies, could make a play). Also, his play today isn't that appealing, as I was ready for Wiggles to get all up in my grill after yesterday. But then he talks about inactivity not being inherently scummy and all defense, no offense.
I can see a Dirkzor being scum, but unlike BC, I don't think it really makes sense for Dirkzor to be scum with Wiggles, as it's putting two scum pushing for the same lynch on Day 1, a bit risky I feel.
I also find it a bit suspicious that Zeph is defending me. Gut feeling tells me something is up, but I find his claim pretty townish. . So okay, Wiggles is IN his top three scummy folks. According to his own posts, he currently has Wiggles as a member of the scum team. But look at his vote yesterday! + Show Spoiler +On August 28 2012 05:50 Misder wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 28 2012 05:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 04:24 Mementoss wrote:On August 28 2012 04:23 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On August 28 2012 04:10 BioSC wrote:Whelp. As it turns out, MLG weekend + TI2 Weekend plus lots of procrastinated homework means one inactive Bio. Combine that with a general "woe is me" about my reads in general makes it hard to put forth the effort. Well, here we go again. My 2 choices are misder or VE. Misder for his active lurking + the play around the time of yesterday's lynch. VE, because the case by HiroPro + Show Spoiler +On August 27 2012 09:03 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote:On August 27 2012 07:31 HiroPro wrote: hm, wiggles sounds legitimately annoyed. Can't decide whether to kill biosc or misder, drrrr.
##Unvote What are your thoughts on VE /dirkzor I haven't really read much since Toad died, so fresh look and all lol. Dirkzor I think is town. His early play I think was mostly just because of how much pressure he was under from BC and I think he's actually trying to contribute. I think VE is scum now for a couple of reasons. First, the thing with grush still strikes me as really uncharacteristic of town VE. VE is someone who throws out policy lynches as town, but it's almost always "if we have no strong scum reads, we should lynch a lurker". For him to push a policy lynch on a person for their play in other games is just mind-boggling. VE has always emphasized that there is no such thing as an "useless townie" because they're still a member of town to count against the mafia wincon, yet now his views have suddenly flipped. If you look at the LVI postgame (the last game with VE and grush in it), there's nothing to suggest that VE was unduly mad. Yes, I know he made some comment pregame about how grush would likely just lurk and troll, but at least before VE pushed the policy lynch, grush had seemed ok in activity and was at least responding to others. Next looking at the whole Wiggles-BC feud: Beforehand VE had said that he thought Wiggles was scum. But then when the cases come out, literally the only thing VE has to say about those two cases is a mild dislike of one of BC's points. Otherwise he just says afterward " BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched" and "Then he's absent for half of today, only to build a case against one of town's stronger scumhunters and disappear again.". That doesn't look like VE analyzing someone's play and reaching a conclusion based on that. It looks like him making a preconceived judgement and fitting what happens around it. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 17:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Why does BC keep referencing Bugs' post as if Bugs is accusing Wiggles? He's said it twice I think now, and I don't think Bugs was accusing Wiggles at all. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:20 VisceraEyes wrote: But it won't be - Bugs is alive to say "no guy, I think Wiggles is town (as my post indicates), LTR"
That's my point - it won't be Bugs' fault at all. Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On August 24 2012 02:16 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:11 grush57 wrote:On August 24 2012 02:09 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles Nah, Wiggles attacking bc is a null tell in my opinion. Look at the timing of this hit, if they wanted to kill bc they would do it faster, it smells like a frame to me. Yeah I considered that aswell, but wiggles has been scummy HMMMMMMMMMMMM idk man also biosc where u been at man! Wiggles scummy ? He seems the only person devoting his time to this game. Some guys dont have enough time , yadda yadda. Although his theory on the lynch sounds wrong... Well I think Dirk is scum based on one post... I did not vote him because of my doubts (his points about viscera were good) it is hard to reread the thread on the phone, eh. Is this a joke? First of all, Wiggles posted like ONE time D1, and that was to vote me and DISAPPEAR. He had NO inclination to affect the lynch yesterday and, as Bugs and Wiggles will tell you, scum seemed to be perfectly content with the way the wagons were going too. Then he's absent for half of today, only to build a case against one of town's stronger scumhunters and disappear again. In what way is Wiggles "devoting his time to this game"? This is strikingly similar to his play in LV - vote, disappear, return to build a case, vote, disappear. I'm voting Mr.Wiggles because I think he's scum. I hope you guys will join me. Then, the amount of times VE promises thoughts and reads but then when he comes back has pretty much nothing useful to say. I know someone is going to bring up the shot done by Toad, but frankly I think it could just be separation. Toad knew it was only 0.5 KP and not going to pose a threat to VE actually dying. Maybe I'm being an idiot right now in ignoring BC lol, but it's not like I've been doing anything this game for some time now. ##Vote VisceraEyes Makes sense to me. And the more I go through cases and stuff, the less confident I am about them. Great. Tell you what. I'm going to go sheep the veteran flipped townie. My reads are shit and I know it. ##Vote Wiggles Ahahahahahahahaha Now that your here who do you think are scum. VE is scum. Day 1 he came out posting about policy lynching Grush. His reasons were not based on alignment. He put the onus of scumhunting onto other people, telling them it was their responsibility to convince him to lynch someone other than grush. Not convince him that their targets were scummier than grush, because his policy lynch wasn't based on grush being scummy, just that it would be better to try to lynch scum than a random person. After he was rightfully called out on his posting, VE pulled a 180. Some kind of sentiment that VE was town was created, as he very quickly jumped in between three different targets, with only one of them being somewhat original. What puts me off about this, is how quick of a turn-around it was and how badly it reeked of wanting to appease the people out for his blood. First, VE didn't defend his policy lynch on Grush, he just jumped to accusing other people after being accused. As well, VE didn't just accuse one person and attempt to get them lynched, he made a big show of jumping in-between three different targets and saying that he thought all of them were scum. This looks a lot like he was trying to go, "Hey, look at me! I'm scumhunting!", especially when contrasted with his play earlier. So, it looks as though the sudden spurt in apparent scum hunting and effort was made to avoid pressure, which makes sense, since after Day 1 the pressure dropped and so did the contributions from VE. After Day 1, the "scumhunting effort" from VE stopped. His play from then on has consisted of sheeping the lynch sentiment against myself and Misder while adding nothing of value to the cases against either of us. As pointed out by others, VE has been making promises of contribution, but has not been keeping them. Notably, making a case against either myself or Misder. As well, he failed to comment on either my case against BC or BC's defense and case against me while BC was alive. VE makes this post: Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Before I comment on your case Wiggles, what do you think of Dirkzor? You derped around and kept your vote on me all day while a townie got lynched, and today you don't even mention the counterwagon except as a footnote in your case on someone else. Do you think Dirkzor is town? Saying he will comment on my case. However, even though he was in the thread for the next two or so hours, he never comments directly on the case either by myself or BC, even though he has clearly read them. He avoids taking a side in the conflict between us, which supports VE's general play this game of laying low and avoiding attention, especially if his team was already planning on using their shot on BC. After BC dies, VE comes back and uses the death of BC to put a vote on me. However, read the post where he did so: Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 02:03 VisceraEyes wrote: What in the...was that shot not claimed AGAIN? Scum must really be getting desperate.
Was that a blue flip? It looked like it, but everything has been colored blue so I wanted to make sure...
I'm down with a Wiggles lynch guys. BC died trying to get Wiggles lynched, and I think we should oblige him.
##Vote: Wiggles In this post, VE does not make mention of BC having a good case, or even agreeing with the case BC made against me. Instead he insinuates that the death of BC was a result of trying to get me lynched, and uses the fact that BC has flipped town as a point for people to sheep to in support of him. The point of this post isn't to say that BC made a good case and town should lynch for it, it's to try to manipulate people into voting me because BC wanted to. It relies on an appeal to authority and the assumption that because BC was town, he was correct. Coming from a player with as much experience as VE, this isn't a simple mistake in logic. It's an attempt to cash in on an emotional response to BC dying and flipping town to try to push a mislynch. As for supporting meta, VE usually plays somewhat aggressively and is very outspoken, to the point where he is often lynched early into the game as he forces focus and attention towards himself. This is markedly different from how he has been playing this game, where he has played very passively and avoided attention. This difference could be explained with role considerations giving VE a reason to act as he is, but VE is not playing in a way that he is contributing to the town while maintaining a low profile, he is instead playing in a way that he only does enough to keep people off his back before sinking into passivity again. Altogether, this makes him scum. I like. Still confused why scum would shoot their own scumbuddy (at least the way Toad did it), but I can roll with this. ##Vote: VisceraEyes . This is something I always find scummy. Misder finds Wiggles his #3 scumread. Yet Misder votes VE, who wasn't one of his top scumreads, because of Wiggles' case. A case made by someone he thinks is scum. Plus Misder even pulls back and notes that he doesn't understand why scum would shoot scum D1, so it's clear he doesn't even really love the case on VE. Misder has a scumread on Wiggles. Misder could have voted Wiggles. Yet instead, Misder votes VE based on a case he doesn't fully love, made by someone he thought was scum.
BioSC - Doing nothing. I like where his vote ended yesterday, but not so much the way it was done, as others mentioned. Saying you haven't been reading along, find x and y scummy, but are voting z to sheep a confirmed town case is... maybe excusable? But his particular x, y, and z worry me. He managed to find scummy or vote for EVERY legitimate lynch option yesterday. I'd be more happy if he had just given a throwaway sheep vote. Plus, admittedly, there's still the chance Grush has a DT role and got a bad check on BioSC.
HiroPro - Hiro always seems to ask a LOT of short questions. It usually worries me somewhat. This game, he's had a lot of questions, but a pretty short filter compared to what I remember from other games. It also feels like he's not really DOING anything with the answers he gets. He asks for reads, he asks for thoughts on VE yesterday from a few people, but he doesn't DO anything with that. Again, from what I remember, I'm usually wondering the same things he is, and happy when his questions get answered. This game, I'm not getting that feeling so much.
Strongly, strongly feel that 2 of our scum are hiding within those 4. If the other isn't, then I'm thinking Heist/Grush, or as a distant, distant option, Kenpachi. His reads have been in agreement with mine this game, however, so I don't like him as a scum option yet. Don't feel like I've got a great handle on zephir or kurumi yet this game.
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Any last minute thoughts or reads people were saving?
Kenpachi, I figure you're still sold on Wiggles, but are you still working off this list?
On August 24 2012 09:12 Kenpachi wrote: uh.. i trust BC. im sorry but when he gets it going, hes probably the best player in the game.
however VE is also probably town.
Scum List: Mr. Wiggles Mattchew Dirkzor
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
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Add to the above: I know you said you were sure on BioSC, and had a post where you were worried about Hiro. Just trying to figure out where your thoughts are.
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On August 29 2012 05:57 Drazerk wrote: Probably a bad idea to try and figure out Kenpachi... Can't hurt to try, and I've agreed with a number of his reads this game, as well as some others (Acro in LVI). Even without reasoning from him, I get a warm fuzzy feeling when we're both finding someone scummy.
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A few observations:
Haven't seen scum factional KP on N2 or N3. There's the possibility that Toad was the only one who could carry out the shots - "captured by Team Rocket" still appears to be the factional KP, and he's the only player who has flipped as a person, a member of Team Rocket, rather than just a red pokemon. Too much speculation there, better to assume town is at least solid with protects or something.
I was hit for a small amount of KP last night.
Don't want to lynch Grush today, would much, much rather lynch Wiggles.
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Odd, because I got a message that I took a little damage. That would mean I either got hit with something heavy or maybe an ineffective match between us so less protection?
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