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<3 my XXII buddies. Wonder how different the game is as townie?
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On August 13 2012 15:10 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 15:07 Blazinghand wrote: 1 gate FE or 15 Nexus are both appropriate plays against a 1-1-1. Once you've realized a 1-1-1 is on the way, hit stride on a 1.5 base economy and pump units out of your warpgates, mostly zealots with a small number of sentries and stalkers, and make immortals from your robo. If you know he has cloak, you'll naturally be making an observer as well. Do not be afraid to chrono-boost your robo. Keep on making units and keep a stalker or two outside his base to see when he pushes out. Get out as many immortals as you can before he reaches your base. A Pylon out on the map (close to your nat, but located to flank his main attack) will let you warp in crucial flanking zealots.
As your last immortal pops, push in using guardian shield as he sieges up-- your goal should be to begin moving in as soon as he wants to secure his location, and before any bunkers go up-- his first tank volley should have to make a choice between shooting immortals and zealots in melee with his own forces (or the small number of sentries and stalkers you have). Use FFs to prevent kiting, and remember he can't walk back through his own tanks. Don't worry too much about the banshees-- you'll be cleaning them up with a warpin of stalkers after the fight ends plus whatever AA you have left alive.
This varies from map to map, as some maps are strong for 1-1-1 (Ohana and Shakuras come to mind) and some are weaker and give you more room to maneuver and delay him (Daybreak etc). Don't get choked up, don't overmake stalkers, and if you engage, you basically can't back off unless you've taken very little damage from his tank shots. BH is mostly right here. The hardest part about dealing with the 1-1-1 is how easily it can be disguised as a 1rax FE if you don't get an early scout in.
Why are you buddying BH so hard? are you that desperate to establish your town cred before the game has even started?!?!? Blatant scum slip. SS IS SCUM! you heard it here first kids.
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Just as Uni gets busy again
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On August 15 2012 10:40 Shady Sands wrote: FYI
These are the players that haven't posted yet:
Darth GK Golbat Jhuyt Z-BosoN Ochrow YourHarry
As a reminder, please link your filters and roles from prior games. Thank you.
Shady I can't believe you are doing this again as it would have got you lynched in XXII if you didn't have a rock solid town claim. __________________________________________________________________________________________________
That being said, HI GUYS! I am super excited to be playing mafia with you. I live in Australia so my posting times will be different than yours. please don't use this as an indicator of alignment. I have some things to do today. but I will be posting fairly regularly etc. As for policy lynches; they are unnecessary if there is a vibrant discussion occurring. You fail to achieve vibrant discussion with OMGUS and Policy talk.
GLHF <3
Here is my SCUM Filter from XXII.
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On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Show nested quote +Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
Ok, I don't get this at all. Care to elaborate on what what exactly the case here is?
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On August 15 2012 11:54 Solarsail wrote:Show nested quote +To summarize my meta, in the first 2.5 games, I am quick to make accusations and switch my vote players with little explanation. I decided to change my meta in game 3 where I drew vanilla townie. I played more conservative to avoid suspicion. I am not sure which meta I will choose this game HOW ABOUT NOT DYING SMILEY FACE
@Solarsail I strongly recommend that you as either town OR scum lift the quality of your posting. You are not doing yourself any favours by acting this way. Even though the case on you is weak, your over-reaction to it is Incredibly suspicious. I don't think this is a dead set scum read however, as you could equally just be a panicked townie.
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I have to go visit my sister in the hospital. I will be back shortly and hope to have a lot to read through.
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Hey guys I have been in the Hospital all day. I kept up with the thread somewhat from my phone.
Shady Sands The case that shady posted was incredibly weak. The first 'read' shady got certainly wasn't there. Even when shady clarified his reasoning it was a huge stretch. The whole 'soft accusing thing was nonsense and seems to be fabricated by shady out of thin air in order to pursue an agenda (this may be mis-lynching a townie or stimulating discussion) however something felt off about the whole thing, and was certainly not the same way shady was playing in XXII.
I took a look through Shady's filter, the vast majority of posts contain one liner questions which add nothing to any cases. After this incredibly weak initial 'case'
On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Show nested quote +Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
He does none of the 'scum hunting' that he has been speaking at length about nor adds to his case with anything but OMGUS until others board the bandwagon. In fact almost his entire filter is Fluff.
On August 15 2012 10:16 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:12 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote: Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks Is this normal? Just wonderin' XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on. It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously.
On August 15 2012 10:27 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on. Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY. If you don't stop I will vote you. Also, could you please link your play from the other game from the other forum? So we can see your meta?
On August 15 2012 10:34 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:29 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:23 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY. If you don't stop I will vote you. Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Wow. Guess I'm scum then. ##Vote: Shady Sands Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up. LOL why are you voting me?
On August 15 2012 10:16 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:12 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote: Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks Is this normal? Just wonderin' XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on. It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously.
On August 15 2012 10:40 Shady Sands wrote: FYI
These are the players that haven't posted yet:
Darth GK Golbat Jhuyt Z-BosoN Ochrow YourHarry
As a reminder, please link your filters and roles from prior games. Thank you.
On August 15 2012 10:41 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:41 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation: Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote. Sorry for the bother, but could you describe what OMGUS means? It's one of the several expressions I see used in the mafia forums of which I have no idea what they mean. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=OMGUSShow nested quote +OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
On August 15 2012 10:43 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:36 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:34 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:29 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:23 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY. If you don't stop I will vote you. Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Wow. Guess I'm scum then. ##Vote: Shady Sands Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up. LOL why are you voting me? To get you to stop quoting me. It's NOT HELPING ANYONE. Go post about someone else. How is quoting you not helping anyone? Why should I post about someone else? And how does your vote get me to stop quoting you?
On August 15 2012 11:34 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 11:33 goodkarma wrote:Regarding lynch all lurkers: Yeah. Got me last game as scum with that but tbh I would have been just about as active day one as town. I still don't really have day one figured out, so don't expect me to go into hyperactive mode for day one this game. In the context of last game, it was used as a last resort which imho is the only time it should be considered. Active discussion of suspects and the cases created day one are far more valuable than trying for a "lucky lynch." And regarding the vote for Shady Sands: If you're going to make a vote try to make at least a few "case points" behind it. Otherwise we're going to have a pretty ridiculous situation where everyone finger points each other over pretty much nothing. Look at Mordanis's (who was town) play in NMM XXII. He started the game with a WIFOM case, and lo and behold was actively accused all game. That suspicion could have been better spent elsewhere, so make your cases thorough before voting please. Lastly: Now would be a great time to discuss policy. The ever-popular "lurker-lynch" policy is a great point of discussion. Also, if there's an experience that comes to mind that you feel we could benefit from via a policy feel free to bring it up . GK, could you put up filters from XXIII and XXII?
All these posts from his filter. No scum hunting which he has SAYS is the most important thing to do. Simply policy talk, OMGUS and one weak case. then after others have actually contributed to the thread:
On August 15 2012 11:53 Shady Sands wrote:Heading out for the night. Great job keeping up the pressure on Solarsail. + Show Spoiler [Thrawn] +On August 15 2012 11:18 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation: Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote. Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts. In that case it would be easy for the mafia players to roll in later and pile more suspicion on solar and therefore away from themselves. As far as I could see most of the drama was based on your post asking why he is devoting his first post to appearing as town rather than use it to scumhunt. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that at the time of his original posting there were only a few D1 posts so far and not much to scumhunt on. I think right now we are still in a waiting game, people that haven't spoken up yet need to! In addition to questioning why Solarsail is devoting his first post to appearing as town, we should also be asking why he made this comment: Show nested quote +Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Right after Stutters made the short comment about Hapa's XXIII postscript to open the game. + Show Spoiler [mkfuba] +On August 15 2012 11:19 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 11:08 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:55 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:37 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. Quick question: If you've never played with Solarsail before, how would you know whether his points are less or more articulate than they could be? Seconding your point on the profanities though. I wouldn't know if they are more or less articulate than however he may have been in previous games, but for this purpose of this game it's making his posts a little unclear. Unclear could just mean unclear OR mafia, but the end result is that I pay more attention to his posts. O WOW IM BEING PAID ATTENTION TO ITS ALL I DREAMED OF Let's go with the meta-meta-analysis of tiny comments without adding anything new, that's sure to help. When Shady Sands stops the 'thing' he has going I'll vote for who you're "paying attention to" because that's an objective measure appreciated by town players everywhere. Alright, I feel like Shady was overreacting too, but there needs to be a starting point for discussion. Your reactions have been completely emotionally based and by virtue of not being pro-town, appear scummy by default. Might his posts have been a bit contrived? Yes. From what I can see, he's scumhunting no matter what. Whether he actually believes that your first few posts were scummy, your follow-up posts aren't helping town in any way. You say you'll vote for someone when someone else makes a case for them based on reasoning, so start trying to do that instead of screaming at Shady. > Drops in from ceiling > Why, yes, I can see some of argument A but I can also see some of argument B, aren't I so fair and reasonable good sirs > Let me give advice to you, for I am a kind and generous spirit ................ ...... .. . . . Dude, you're not helping your case. I didn't give anything that Shady had said any weight until you followed up his questions with overly emotional fluff and OMGUS. Your responses don't answer the questions he's raised, and provide nothing in the way of new content. While my read on you still says panicked townie, you have to cool off. Either respond to his questions seriously or make another case, or you're not helping town. Step it up. Playing the sarcastic martyr wins you no points. Great job keeping the discussion on track. Other than Solarsail, any other reads at the moment? @ Solarsail Note that when I began the entire train of questions at Solarsail, I was never directly accusing him of being scum: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. He immediately responded with hostility: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. This is what I want everyone to focus on. Why would Solarsail do this?
Shady agrees with everyone who is inclined to jump on his bandwagon and congratulates them on keeping up the pressure on solar. He adds very little if anything to his already weak case yet tries to maintain momentum on this obvious bandwagon. The conclusion of his 'case' is not even a statement. It is simply a question of his motive. Something which requires little commitment and which you may easily back away from following a mislynch. What concerns me Is that he openly states that he would like everyone to focus on this. Focusing everyones attention on the mislynch of a bad townie is the perfect situation for scum.
then we have this.
On August 15 2012 12:07 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 11:59 YourHarry wrote: @Z-boson, posting filters is pretty easy. Why not.
@Shady Sands. You are accusing Solarsail of being hostile? You think scums are more likely to respond with hostility?
Thrawn on the other hand is busy posting fluffs and WIFOM statement like "It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case."
##Vote Thrawn I agree here. Thrawn's first post on the SK was extremely WIFOM: + Show Spoiler [Thrawn on SK] +On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote: Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. Why is Thrawn so concerned with getting town's attention on thinking about a SK, when SK is actually a bigger threat to scum than it is to town? His response to my question was yet more WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +On August 15 2012 10:11 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 09:59 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote: Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. Why are you so worried about the SK? SK is a bigger threat to scum than to town. I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths. Note the following sentence: Show nested quote +I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Then he says he won't post about it until it becomes obvious there is an SK. Basically Thrawn is fluffing up his posts here with a mostly useless discussion. I'd like to see Thrawn commit to a case. Until then, ## FoS Thrawn2112
Another weak case which follows the pattern established with his initial case on Solarsail. He takes a VERY EARLY post by thrawn and twists it into something that is at best a stretch. He accuses Thrawn of 'fluffing up his posts with mostly useless discussion' which shady himself is guilty of. And posts meaningless questions on why you would ask about a SK and presents them as some form of case.
This is not the Shady Sands I saw in XXII, Something feels off. and thus, a FoS is declared.
FoS## Shady Sands
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On August 15 2012 17:59 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 17:39 DarthPunk wrote:Hey guys I have been in the Hospital all day. I kept up with the thread somewhat from my phone. Shady SandsThe case that shady posted was incredibly weak. The first 'read' shady got certainly wasn't there. Even when shady clarified his reasoning it was a huge stretch. The whole 'soft accusing thing was nonsense and seems to be fabricated by shady out of thin air in order to pursue an agenda (this may be mis-lynching a townie or stimulating discussion) however something felt off about the whole thing, and was certainly not the same way shady was playing in XXII. I took a look through Shady's filter, the vast majority of posts contain one liner questions which add nothing to any cases. After this incredibly weak initial 'case' On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? He does none of the 'scum hunting' that he has been speaking at length about nor adds to his case with anything but OMGUS until others board the bandwagon. In fact almost his entire filter is Fluff. On August 15 2012 10:16 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:12 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote: Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks Is this normal? Just wonderin' XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on. It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously. On August 15 2012 10:27 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on. Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY. If you don't stop I will vote you. Also, could you please link your play from the other game from the other forum? So we can see your meta? On August 15 2012 10:34 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:29 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:23 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY. If you don't stop I will vote you. Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Wow. Guess I'm scum then. ##Vote: Shady Sands Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up. LOL why are you voting me? On August 15 2012 10:16 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:12 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote: Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks Is this normal? Just wonderin' XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on. It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously. On August 15 2012 10:40 Shady Sands wrote: FYI
These are the players that haven't posted yet:
Darth GK Golbat Jhuyt Z-BosoN Ochrow YourHarry
As a reminder, please link your filters and roles from prior games. Thank you. On August 15 2012 10:41 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:41 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation: Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote. Sorry for the bother, but could you describe what OMGUS means? It's one of the several expressions I see used in the mafia forums of which I have no idea what they mean. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=OMGUSOMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you. On August 15 2012 10:43 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:36 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:34 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:29 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:23 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote: [quote]
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play. On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible. Then you say: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why? Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY. If you don't stop I will vote you. Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Wow. Guess I'm scum then. ##Vote: Shady Sands Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up. LOL why are you voting me? To get you to stop quoting me. It's NOT HELPING ANYONE. Go post about someone else. How is quoting you not helping anyone? Why should I post about someone else? And how does your vote get me to stop quoting you? On August 15 2012 11:34 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 11:33 goodkarma wrote:Regarding lynch all lurkers: Yeah. Got me last game as scum with that but tbh I would have been just about as active day one as town. I still don't really have day one figured out, so don't expect me to go into hyperactive mode for day one this game. In the context of last game, it was used as a last resort which imho is the only time it should be considered. Active discussion of suspects and the cases created day one are far more valuable than trying for a "lucky lynch." And regarding the vote for Shady Sands: If you're going to make a vote try to make at least a few "case points" behind it. Otherwise we're going to have a pretty ridiculous situation where everyone finger points each other over pretty much nothing. Look at Mordanis's (who was town) play in NMM XXII. He started the game with a WIFOM case, and lo and behold was actively accused all game. That suspicion could have been better spent elsewhere, so make your cases thorough before voting please. Lastly: Now would be a great time to discuss policy. The ever-popular "lurker-lynch" policy is a great point of discussion. Also, if there's an experience that comes to mind that you feel we could benefit from via a policy feel free to bring it up . GK, could you put up filters from XXIII and XXII? All these posts from his filter. No scum hunting which he has SAYS is the most important thing to do. Simply policy talk, OMGUS and one weak case. then after others have actually contributed to the thread: On August 15 2012 11:53 Shady Sands wrote:Heading out for the night. Great job keeping up the pressure on Solarsail. + Show Spoiler [Thrawn] +On August 15 2012 11:18 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation: Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation? Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote. Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts. In that case it would be easy for the mafia players to roll in later and pile more suspicion on solar and therefore away from themselves. As far as I could see most of the drama was based on your post asking why he is devoting his first post to appearing as town rather than use it to scumhunt. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that at the time of his original posting there were only a few D1 posts so far and not much to scumhunt on. I think right now we are still in a waiting game, people that haven't spoken up yet need to! In addition to questioning why Solarsail is devoting his first post to appearing as town, we should also be asking why he made this comment: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Right after Stutters made the short comment about Hapa's XXIII postscript to open the game. + Show Spoiler [mkfuba] +On August 15 2012 11:19 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 11:08 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:55 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 15 2012 10:37 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made. Quick question: If you've never played with Solarsail before, how would you know whether his points are less or more articulate than they could be? Seconding your point on the profanities though. I wouldn't know if they are more or less articulate than however he may have been in previous games, but for this purpose of this game it's making his posts a little unclear. Unclear could just mean unclear OR mafia, but the end result is that I pay more attention to his posts. O WOW IM BEING PAID ATTENTION TO ITS ALL I DREAMED OF Let's go with the meta-meta-analysis of tiny comments without adding anything new, that's sure to help. When Shady Sands stops the 'thing' he has going I'll vote for who you're "paying attention to" because that's an objective measure appreciated by town players everywhere. Alright, I feel like Shady was overreacting too, but there needs to be a starting point for discussion. Your reactions have been completely emotionally based and by virtue of not being pro-town, appear scummy by default. Might his posts have been a bit contrived? Yes. From what I can see, he's scumhunting no matter what. Whether he actually believes that your first few posts were scummy, your follow-up posts aren't helping town in any way. You say you'll vote for someone when someone else makes a case for them based on reasoning, so start trying to do that instead of screaming at Shady. > Drops in from ceiling > Why, yes, I can see some of argument A but I can also see some of argument B, aren't I so fair and reasonable good sirs > Let me give advice to you, for I am a kind and generous spirit ................ ...... .. . . . Dude, you're not helping your case. I didn't give anything that Shady had said any weight until you followed up his questions with overly emotional fluff and OMGUS. Your responses don't answer the questions he's raised, and provide nothing in the way of new content. While my read on you still says panicked townie, you have to cool off. Either respond to his questions seriously or make another case, or you're not helping town. Step it up. Playing the sarcastic martyr wins you no points. Great job keeping the discussion on track. Other than Solarsail, any other reads at the moment? @ Solarsail Note that when I began the entire train of questions at Solarsail, I was never directly accusing him of being scum: On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. He immediately responded with hostility: On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:Solarsail, why post this? Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything. I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information. This is what I want everyone to focus on. Why would Solarsail do this? Shady agrees with everyone who is inclined to jump on his bandwagon and congratulates them on keeping up the pressure on solar. He adds very little if anything to his already weak case yet tries to maintain momentum on this obvious bandwagon. The conclusion of his 'case' is not even a statement. It is simply a question of his motive. Something which requires little commitment and which you may easily back away from following a mislynch. What concerns me Is that he openly states that he would like everyone to focus on this. Focusing everyones attention on the mislynch of a bad townie is the perfect situation for scum. then we have this. On August 15 2012 12:07 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 11:59 YourHarry wrote: @Z-boson, posting filters is pretty easy. Why not.
@Shady Sands. You are accusing Solarsail of being hostile? You think scums are more likely to respond with hostility?
Thrawn on the other hand is busy posting fluffs and WIFOM statement like "It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case."
##Vote Thrawn I agree here. Thrawn's first post on the SK was extremely WIFOM: + Show Spoiler [Thrawn on SK] +On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote: Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. Why is Thrawn so concerned with getting town's attention on thinking about a SK, when SK is actually a bigger threat to scum than it is to town? His response to my question was yet more WIFOM: + Show Spoiler +On August 15 2012 10:11 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 09:59 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote: Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. Why are you so worried about the SK? SK is a bigger threat to scum than to town. I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths. Note the following sentence: I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Then he says he won't post about it until it becomes obvious there is an SK. Basically Thrawn is fluffing up his posts here with a mostly useless discussion. I'd like to see Thrawn commit to a case. Until then, ## FoS Thrawn2112 Another weak case which follows the pattern established with his initial case on Solarsail. He takes a VERY EARLY post by thrawn and twists it into something that is at best a stretch. He accuses Thrawn of 'fluffing up his posts with mostly useless discussion' which shady himself is guilty of. And posts meaningless questions on why you would ask about a SK and presents them as some form of case. This is not the Shady Sands I saw in XXII, Something feels off. and thus, a FoS is declared. FoS## Shady Sands Given that XXII was my very first game of Mafia ever, it should be expected that my posting style has grown up between now and then. If you look near the end of the XXII game, you'll see me doing now what I was doing then--prodding people with questions and keeping the town's posting rhythm extremely high. That being said, I'm curious to know what you think about the Thrawn and Solar cases. You say they're weak. Why?
Your posting was substantially better in XXII but perhaps that was because you were masoned and then confirmed town/heavily coached by BH. Asking questions which is 90% of the content that you have provide thus far, does not constitute making cases or scum hunting. all it does is maybe evoke a response from others without actually making a case or forming an opinion yourself. A very safe playstyle. and right now after I have cast suspicion on your 'case making' rather than strengthen the cases you have made you ask me to comment. Trying to look like contributing without contributing. Asking others to comment rather than commenting. The cases are weak because the cases do not exist. They were a stretch and the reasoning behind their scumminess was extremely convoluted and nonsensical. The posts you based your cases on were in my opinion obviously null tells, and then descended into WIFOM and OMGUS without adding anything further. All further points, fluff posts, appearing to contribute whilst not contributing, you yourself are far more guilty of then they. It is entirely possible they are scum. However the weak cases you have submitted and the accompanying fluff make you far more suspicious to me at this point.
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On August 15 2012 18:17 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 16:56 Ochrow wrote: I feel like the general consensus is that shady was reading too much into Solar's first post, as to any motives behind that I can't yet speak. And along the same lines everyone seems to feel that Solar is now playing a pro-town style be this scummy or not I feel it is something we need to watch for as even if he isn't scum I think it will sidetrack a lot of discussions and hinder the scumhunting in general. How can you say that everyone seems to feel that Solar is now playing a pro-town style? Who has said this?
This is exactly what I am talking about. One liner questions make up the overwhelming majority of your filter and do not fit with this post.
On August 15 2012 09:42 Shady Sands wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Thoughts on XXIII] +I'm still really mad at Hapa for essentially winning on luck in XXIII. Had GK actually spoken up in the game, Hapa wouldn't have had the GK lynch to work off of and we scum could have safely NK'd him without worrying about a medic save. Howdy town. Let's kick some scum ass. A few policy notes: - Lynch all lurkers. That's how town caught scum in XXIII. But don't overly rely on this, scum can fake D1 activity pretty well.
- Observe, observe, and observe. If someone acts strangely, lynch them. This includes checking everyone's metas from previous games.
- All players here--please list all the games you have played previously, as well as which roles you played, along with filters for your posts. Here are my links:
My XXIII Filter, where I was scum My XXII Filter, where I was Mason with Keirathi
- If someone isn't forthcoming with information ("I have a read but I'm not going to share it because of blah") lynch them.
- If someone isn't actively pushing new cases with their posts, press them on it.
- Stop OMGUS wars. They're not productive. If two people are OMGUSing each other, tell them to stop, don't just sit there and let them keep yelling at each other. The only ones who win off mass OMGUSing are scum.
That's all for now, good luck everyone.
In fact little if any of your posts adhere to these rules, or provide anything at all of substance. Yet you are the most active player. It seems that you are trying very hard to establish yourself as town. Without providing anything we can use if the case you are pushing returns a mislynch.
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On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day.
Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.)
On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote: In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious.
So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours.
The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town.
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On August 15 2012 18:54 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.) On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote: In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious. So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours. The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town. The way I play this game is to tunnel people until they either convince me that they're town or they end up dead via lynch or NK. That's how each townie should play this game--letting analysis go before one is satisfied is how scum slip out of our fingers.
So you dropped your cases on SolarSail and Thrawn because you were entirely satisfied? are you scum slipping out of my fingers? Link me to the posts in which you become satisfied enough to drop your cases. Or are you dropping them because you have realised they are backfiring. Hard.
I will look at the YourHarry case. The way he flipped on and off of SolarSail was suspicious and I am therefore rereading the thread and his filter.
On August 15 2012 18:58 Shady Sands wrote: I just want to make this simple: are you committing to your read on me as the scummiest player so far?
What kind of question is this? What does answering this question contribute to town? I will analyse and present cases on whoever I see as suspicious time allowing. I have found others scummy, you were the first that particularly jumped out at me.
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On August 15 2012 19:19 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.) On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote: In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious. So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours. The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town. The bigger issue, Darth, is why you are holding me responsible for a lack of analysis and content so far when I've been trying the hardest to get people to commit to reads on people and post more cases. Also, how is this post below: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:01 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote: Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.
Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted. Basically I read this: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. And it didn't make sense to me. Why would Solar make this post if he's town? It's not pro-town to post on which style a scum might or might be playing. Then I read his post in context of the first post that stutters made, and it seemed like Solar is trying to soft accuse stutters--because stutters post was short, and didn't hold any information that disagrees with the general direction (as telling people to read a guide is about as plain as someone can get.) The second possibility here, aside from soft-accusing stutters, is that Solar is trying to look participatory. He states this himself, later. Why would a townie try to look participatory from his first post onwards? No one has accused Solar of anything yet, so why the desire to look like he's contributing (as opposed to actually saying something of substance instead of guessing at what the scum must be feeling?) Both these possibilities lead to a scum Solarsail. ## FoS Solarsail A lack of content and analysis? I note that you didn't include it in your long train of quotes on me, perhaps because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to paint. So I ask you: How is the above case a bad case? How does it not provide content or analysis? If you can't find answers to those questions, then I'd respectfully ask you to start applying your own strict standards to YourHarry, who, by your logic, should be a far bigger scum than I am.
I have mentioned that case several times. It is largely based on wild and convoluted assumptions in order to lead to anything meaningful. I have said previously you are either more guilty of the things you are accusing him of or are making assumptions based on a largely innocuous post.
The not all, but the Overwhelming Majority of your posts are fluff. and the Analysis you do present is bad or a stretch. Which begs the question. Why would you be making such absurd stretches in your 'analysis' unless you are serving an agenda?
I will look at Your Harry also. I have only been back for a short while and need to reread the thread. However I find it unusual that you are now, after suspicion has been cast upon you, casting aside your earlier cases without a clear or satisfying reason and trying to shift attention onto Your Harry.
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On August 15 2012 19:30 Shady Sands wrote: Also, the question I asked you is to nail you down, Darth, because it seemed like you were saying I was scummiest player in the thread.
But I think I misread your first post--thought you were FoS'ing me after reading through everyone else's posts, when you clearly hadn't done that at all. I look forward to seeing how your reads change once you've read more of the thread.
I have read the thread twice. Your actions were particularly suspicious and thus I read through your filter carefully and presented my findings.
You want to nail me down? are you implying that you find me scummy without going so far as to say it? My read on you won't change after I re-read the thread. Nothing you have said has quelled my suspicions of you. I may find others suspicious also. That does not require me to not find you suspicious as you are attempting to imply.
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EBWOP: My FoS on Shady stands until I am satisfied, which I am not presently. I will re-read the thread and Your Harry's filter and post my thoughts.
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On August 15 2012 19:58 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 19:32 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 19:19 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.) On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote: In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious. So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours. The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town. The bigger issue, Darth, is why you are holding me responsible for a lack of analysis and content so far when I've been trying the hardest to get people to commit to reads on people and post more cases. Also, how is this post below: On August 15 2012 12:01 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote: Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.
Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted. Basically I read this: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. And it didn't make sense to me. Why would Solar make this post if he's town? It's not pro-town to post on which style a scum might or might be playing. Then I read his post in context of the first post that stutters made, and it seemed like Solar is trying to soft accuse stutters--because stutters post was short, and didn't hold any information that disagrees with the general direction (as telling people to read a guide is about as plain as someone can get.) The second possibility here, aside from soft-accusing stutters, is that Solar is trying to look participatory. He states this himself, later. Why would a townie try to look participatory from his first post onwards? No one has accused Solar of anything yet, so why the desire to look like he's contributing (as opposed to actually saying something of substance instead of guessing at what the scum must be feeling?) Both these possibilities lead to a scum Solarsail. ## FoS Solarsail A lack of content and analysis? I note that you didn't include it in your long train of quotes on me, perhaps because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to paint. So I ask you: How is the above case a bad case? How does it not provide content or analysis? If you can't find answers to those questions, then I'd respectfully ask you to start applying your own strict standards to YourHarry, who, by your logic, should be a far bigger scum than I am. I have mentioned that case several times. It is largely based on wild and convoluted assumptions in order to lead to anything meaningful. I have said previously you are either more guilty of the things you are accusing him of or are making assumptions based on a largely innocuous post. The not all, but the Overwhelming Majority of your posts are fluff. and the Analysis you do present is bad or a stretch. Which begs the question. Why would you be making such absurd stretches in your 'analysis' unless you are serving an agenda? I will look at Your Harry also. I have only been back for a short while and need to reread the thread. However I find it unusual that you are now, after suspicion has been cast upon you, casting aside your earlier cases without a clear or satisfying reason and trying to shift attention onto Your Harry. Again, you're saying my analysis is bad or a stretch without stating why they're bad. What's wrong with the case I've posted above? What are the holes? Until you can answer those questions, your case on me doesn't help the town. Furthermore, I am not casting aside those cases without a clear or satisfying reason. You're framing me for things I haven't done, which is anti-town. I explicitly stated that I'm moving to YH because I find his behavior even scummier than Thrawn's or Solar's. Furthermore, I stated why I think pushing on Thrawn or Solar when they're not in the thread and can't respond won't generate the sort of discussion that ends up helping the town.
I am not framing you for things you haven't done. Why such a melodramatic Defense? You case was bad, because it was based on an assumption and the convoluted scum motivation you presented alongside that assumption. It was a stretch because the assumption you made was a stretch. Your cases bring very little to the table, and unlike XXII you are not confirmed town and cannot get away with such questionable arguments.
You explicitly stated you were dropping the cases on them for now. Why not just move on without saying anything?
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With that being said. I strongly encourage everyone to read Your Harry's Filter It is so ridiculous that I feel bad I didn't jump on it sooner.
@YOUR HARRY acting like you have some sort of outside information to make a PANTS ON HEAD series of posts is very suspicious and unless you have a rock solid excuse for what your filter currently consists of I have a very large; FoS## Your Harry
On August 15 2012 13:20 YourHarry wrote: Shady. I guess there is a small chance that I could be wrong. But if I am right, it is not a good idea to reveal this information. Let's move on for now.
It is 100% a good idea to reveal this information right now.
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On August 15 2012 20:40 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 20:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 19:58 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 19:32 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 19:19 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.) On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote: In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious. So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours. The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town. The bigger issue, Darth, is why you are holding me responsible for a lack of analysis and content so far when I've been trying the hardest to get people to commit to reads on people and post more cases. Also, how is this post below: On August 15 2012 12:01 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote: Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.
Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted. Basically I read this: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. And it didn't make sense to me. Why would Solar make this post if he's town? It's not pro-town to post on which style a scum might or might be playing. Then I read his post in context of the first post that stutters made, and it seemed like Solar is trying to soft accuse stutters--because stutters post was short, and didn't hold any information that disagrees with the general direction (as telling people to read a guide is about as plain as someone can get.) The second possibility here, aside from soft-accusing stutters, is that Solar is trying to look participatory. He states this himself, later. Why would a townie try to look participatory from his first post onwards? No one has accused Solar of anything yet, so why the desire to look like he's contributing (as opposed to actually saying something of substance instead of guessing at what the scum must be feeling?) Both these possibilities lead to a scum Solarsail. ## FoS Solarsail A lack of content and analysis? I note that you didn't include it in your long train of quotes on me, perhaps because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to paint. So I ask you: How is the above case a bad case? How does it not provide content or analysis? If you can't find answers to those questions, then I'd respectfully ask you to start applying your own strict standards to YourHarry, who, by your logic, should be a far bigger scum than I am. I have mentioned that case several times. It is largely based on wild and convoluted assumptions in order to lead to anything meaningful. I have said previously you are either more guilty of the things you are accusing him of or are making assumptions based on a largely innocuous post. The not all, but the Overwhelming Majority of your posts are fluff. and the Analysis you do present is bad or a stretch. Which begs the question. Why would you be making such absurd stretches in your 'analysis' unless you are serving an agenda? I will look at Your Harry also. I have only been back for a short while and need to reread the thread. However I find it unusual that you are now, after suspicion has been cast upon you, casting aside your earlier cases without a clear or satisfying reason and trying to shift attention onto Your Harry. Again, you're saying my analysis is bad or a stretch without stating why they're bad. What's wrong with the case I've posted above? What are the holes? Until you can answer those questions, your case on me doesn't help the town. Furthermore, I am not casting aside those cases without a clear or satisfying reason. You're framing me for things I haven't done, which is anti-town. I explicitly stated that I'm moving to YH because I find his behavior even scummier than Thrawn's or Solar's. Furthermore, I stated why I think pushing on Thrawn or Solar when they're not in the thread and can't respond won't generate the sort of discussion that ends up helping the town. I am not framing you for things you haven't done. Why such a melodramatic Defense? You case was bad, because it was based on an assumption and the convoluted scum motivation you presented alongside that assumption. It was a stretch because the assumption you made was a stretch. Your cases bring very little to the table, and unlike XXII you are not confirmed town and cannot get away with such questionable arguments. You explicitly stated you were dropping the cases on them for now. Why not just move on without saying anything? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With that being said. I strongly encourage everyone to read Your Harry's Filter It is so ridiculous that I feel bad I didn't jump on it sooner. @YOUR HARRY acting like you have some sort of outside information to make a PANTS ON HEAD series of posts is very suspicious and unless you have a rock solid excuse for what your filter currently consists of I have a very large; FoS## Your HarryOn August 15 2012 13:20 YourHarry wrote: Shady. I guess there is a small chance that I could be wrong. But if I am right, it is not a good idea to reveal this information. Let's move on for now. It is 100% a good idea to reveal this information right now. You're saying I was abandoning the cases for no reason, when I clearly stated I was temporarily dropping them to look at someone who I thought was scummier. There's a key difference between those actions and I think we need to be on the same page as to what they are. As for my cases on Solar and Thrawn, what assumptions were they based on that you found faulty? You still haven't responded to the specifics in my case at all. I'm not giving you a hard time here because I think you're scum--on the contrary, it's because you're a pretty logical player that I feel I need to convince you.
Glad to see we agree on YH.
OK some specifics.
The assumption on the solar case was that his post was in some way 'soft accusing' someone on the basis of this post.
On August 15 2012 09:32 Solarsail wrote: Reading the many guides linked on the library which are incredbly helpful, the most important thing I saw is that the town needs to stay active and stay on point. If we are to lynch anyone it has to be because of real information and evidence, and that has to be readily available from the thread. If we're trying to learn we need a long record to practise analysing.
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
The scum motive you put behind this is a huge stretch and as the basis of your case against him it is a very weak case.
The second assumption is that this post was somehow scum trying to seem as if they were participating etc. and making it out to be any more than it is (beginning of the game Policy/Small talk) is a huge stretch and makes the case weak.
That being said, If your harry doesn't have an extremely enlightening answer to his mysterious hints etc. I have a hard time finding anyone else more suspicious than him.
@Your Harry Please explain the hints to outside information that you posted. If you do have a town reason for this it is better for you to claim etc. than for us to mislynch you.
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I am off to bed now. Night!
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On August 16 2012 03:48 YourHarry wrote:Posting from work. Mkfuba: First, there is a difference in cautiously wondering if Solar is a newbie townie, which is what you did, and knowing that Solar is a suspiciously playing town. This is what GK wrote: Show nested quote +Sigh... I really hope this entire day doesn't revolve around you because you got off to a bad start. You guys propose the same thing in that Solar is not a good lynch. But the underlying basis for GK's proposal is based on what he somehow knows as a certainty. There is a subtle but important difference here. And this is why I think GK is scum, now that I realize that they are not mason brothers. Second, I do think the evidence was quiet sufficient. I am actually surprised that no one saw the same thing I did. In addition to GK's cooperative acceptance of Solar as just an over-agreessive townie , Solar's bold posting style fit almost perfectly once I started believing that he was a mason. Finally when GK no longer questioned me, I became more confident of my read. Also, what information do scums have that townies don't have that would allow scums to speculate better on mason alignments? There is one thing: since scums know everyone who is not scums, they may have easier time identifying the mason claims. But from my perspective, as long as I deemed the possibility of GK/Solar being scums together to be unlikely, my ability to speculate on mason alignment is as good as scums'. You may feel like I am playing with more information because I was quick to believe GK/Solar mason, but logically information available to scums does not allow them to better read masons as long as townies can also establish that GK/Solar are not scums together. I explained my reason for thinking that GK/Solar are not scums together, though I am having second thoughts about this. Thus, my identifying GK/Solar mason combination, even if it was based on less than convincing evidence does not lend much support to me being scum.
You read way too much into a single post by GoodKarma and used that to base an entire read off? Whilst this seems plausible it is not enough to sell me on your Innocence. The swiftness in which you flip from voting for someone to believing him to be masoned is near unbelievable, unless you know that they were green.
On August 16 2012 03:48 YourHarry wrote: I deemed the possibility of GK/Solar being scums together to be unlikely, my ability to speculate on mason alignment is as good as scums'. You may feel like I am playing with more information because I was quick to believe GK/Solar mason, but logically information available to scums does not allow them to better read masons as long as townies can also establish that GK/Solar are not scums together.
You deemed someone which you had just proclaimed as scum and voted for to be green? and this allowed you to Identify the scum pair? You see, This is a major hole in your logic and perhaps the first slip of the game.
You publicly stated that the reason you unvoted solar was that you believe he was masoned. Now you are saying that you could identify the mason pair as easily as scum because you ruled out the possibility of them both being scum.
This is a fallacy. It seems very likely that you knew the alignments of both GK and Solar and that was the reason that you made the mason connection.
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