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| ForkieLifter United States. August 11 2012 02:21. Posts 18 | Profile # |
I just started getting back into SC2 after a long long long time of not playing. My everything is completely thrown off, but it doesn't really matter to me because i only play for fun now which means i don't really care if i'm stuck in Plat or even get demoted to gold. However, at the same time i still want to do things right.
So basically i have a question. I'm usually a macro oriented Zerg player so if i see toss getting his 2nd i get my 3rd so if toss goes nexus first i drop 2 expos instead of just one. Now when opening up should i go 14 gas 14 pool for the lings speed and try to defend with lings and spines while until i get my OL Drop and OL Speed for banelings drops? Or should do a no gas opener defending with Roach/Ling (of course getting gas when i drop my roach warren). I'm thinking if i get 14 gas 14 pool for ling speed and baneling drops i would need infestors with my army to go up against the toss death ball, but if i go Roach/Ling then i can just go Roach/Ling with baneling drops against his death ball, but problem with going Roach/Ling is when should i get infestors and start gearing up for T3? Also last question when should i start my upgrades? |
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| Kryptonite United States. August 11 2012 04:03. Posts 155 | Profile # |
I think you need to slow down, your getting ahead of yourself with your thought process and take one thing at a time, but I'll answer your first question regarding gas timings.
If you do a gasless 3 base, you are going to want to use Roach/Ling as a defense around the 8 minute mark against any possibly warpgate pressure. If you are doing the gasless it's important to really be on top of scouting (chronoboost usage, gas timings, +1 etc).
If you want to do a fast speed opener, then you are using Speedlings to control the map/deny pylons. Since they won't be able to get a proxy pylon up, any warpgate pressure will be delayed/thwarted, so you can delay your Roaches.Last edit: 2012-08-11 04:03:51 |
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 Belial88 United States. August 11 2012 05:03. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
You can't get baneling drops in time if you go third before lair in zvp against any sort of 2 base push. Mutas are a great way to beat any sort of deathball play, that's my go-to if I see toss deathballing (from immortal/sentry to colossus), and just out-macro'ing Toss with pure roach/ling will stop any 2 base army, maybe add infestors or corruptors at about 180 supply if toss insists onnot moving out until 20:00.
Macro is way more important, and you won't have bane drops in time. Just pump lings from 8:30 until you know what Toss is doing (that way if he's doing, say, robo expand, you only made 'free' lings and can still tech up with all your gas, and if he pushes out, you make 10-20 roaches and taht's all you'd need anyways since you want to be more ling heavy).
Replays would help. You want to get infestors, hive, and fourth as soon as you know Toss is going for his third instead of all-inning. Sometimes you can get infestors against 2 base toss, like stargate openers or DT, but generally you need to wait until toss takes his third. |
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| Bill Murray United States. August 11 2012 05:30. Posts 7056 | Profile Blog # |
what map
also, consider hydralisk with that roach/ling instead of infestor
i'd start ranged atk upgrade before my lair finished if i went 3 bases |
| | University of Kentucky Basketball #1 |
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| NeMeSiS3 Canada. August 11 2012 06:09. Posts 2969 | Profile Blog # |
| You could try doing it like the slow lurker drop in BW, where you position your overlord near a cliff of there base (where they can't see it) and morph banelings and elevator but getting speed+sacs is nearly impossible for the goal you want. |
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| monk United States. August 11 2012 06:10. Posts 6811 | Profile Blog # |
| Please read the strategy forum guidelines. [H] threads must contain a replay with detailed self-analysis. These types of questions belong in the Zerg Help Me Thread. |
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| DeltruS Canada. August 11 2012 07:06. Posts 2072 | Profile Blog # |
You can go stephano style but with a bit more emphasis on lings and ling upgrades. You still go for the roaches and fast 3rd, but then you add on a macro hatch and more lings. From there you get broodlords + bane drops with only a few infestors to hold the stalkers in place.
Creative strats are forced into the late game instead of the mid game ZvP. Two base all ins and early roaches are too strong. |
| | Masters Zerg. I just found out my name is an anagram of strudel. Delicious! http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music |
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| ForkieLifter United States. August 11 2012 07:25. Posts 18 | Profile # |
| Thanks for all the help guys and mods sorry for not adding a replay. I'm just coming back from a long vacation from SC2 so i know most of my losses vs Toss isn't only because i did the build order wrong, but because of lack of scouting bad inject supply block ect. I think what i'm going to try the no gas Roach/Ling opener. Getting Baneling Drops right after lair and +1 Melee and Armor instead of Infestation pit and see where that takes me. |
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| fezvez France. August 11 2012 08:17. Posts 967 | Profile Blog # |
A very funny ZvP opening has been proposed by Tang. It's a 2 base drop opening, that you can compliment with banelings. You should compliment it with banelings by the way.
It's funny, it gave me some wins (at diamond level). It's a bit gimmicky but not too much.
The link is a video, but you have at the beginning a file that shows all you need to know.Last edit: 2012-08-11 08:18:06 |
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| Belial88 United States. August 11 2012 10:16. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
On August 11 2012 07:25 ForkieLifter wrote:
Thanks for all the help guys and mods sorry for not adding a replay. I'm just coming back from a long vacation from SC2 so i know most of my losses vs Toss isn't only because i did the build order wrong, but because of lack of scouting bad inject supply block ect. I think what i'm going to try the no gas Roach/Ling opener. Getting Baneling Drops right after lair and +1 Melee and Armor instead of Infestation pit and see where that takes me.
You can't really do this if Toss does any sort of 2 base all-in though. Just getting that much tech and adding a 5th and 6th gas could get you killed.
Roach/banedrops is perfectly viable as a composition, but it's really much like roach/hydra or roach/ling max out - it's somewhat all-innish because you are delaying hive so long (you should really be starting hive when Toss takes his third, in this case you aren't getting hive anytime soon), and it's a way to beat 3 base Toss stalker/colossus armies with aggression. The principle is the same roach/ling max at 11:00 - do heavy aggression, trade efficiently with Toss, while teching up behind the aggression.
You can check out my ZvP guide linked in my profile for information about it, I went in-depth on it and played that style for a long time. You'll always kill the Toss army, it's just a matter of how cost efficiently you do it though, that makes or breaks the game, since you have to do more than kill everything (ie kill everything and keep your infestors and most of your roaches alive, etc). It's a fun style, it should be fine until you reach around higher masters where mutas or plain roach/ling is simply stronger.
2 base bane drop is really the only viable way to get drops in time against 2 base toss, but that is an aggressive opening where you don't have a third that obviously has it's own problems, and you have to do damage or end up really far behind economically that you'll probably die to the 3 base 3+ colossus push.
On a different note, you can check out the "how i grew to love zvp' guide in my profile. It's completely not viable at high levels of play, and infestors got nerfed so it's even less useful... Last edit: 2012-08-11 10:17:00 |
| | How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100 |
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