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| LGStarcraft United States. August 12 2012 20:55. Posts 39 | Profile # |
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SMcQJ.png)
INTRODUCTION
Having trouble against a particular race or build? Getting tired of the long, drawn out games that just end in frustration and misery? Don't you just want to cheese a little?
Although cheese and all-ins are frowned upon (because they require no skill!), I do believe that they serve a purpose in any player's arsenal of builds, from Bronzies to Grandmasters. Starcraft is not just a game of macro: It is also a game of trickery and wit.
I finally climbed up the ladders to become a top ranked Master, and during this time I have devised a few situational builds and incorporated a few popular ones into my play-style that tend to work against standard play from other races. They're hidden, they're tricky, they're... all-ins. Although it may not require much skill from a macro-perspective, all-ins are definitely a great way to focus on your micromanagement and decision making, as unit control and positioning is crucial for making the all-in successful.
PURPOSE
This thread is intended for Protoss players who wish to expand their play-books and utilize the power and flexibility of the Protoss arsenal in a more aggressive fashion. As stated earlier, all-ins are a great way to work on decision making and micromanagement. Eventually, you will also find a knack for positioning and for understanding a race's habits.
To commit to an all-in safely requires an ability for scouting. You will learn to predict build openings of your opponents based on scouting clues and deduction. From here you can adjust your all-in or transition out of it depending on your analysis of the situation at hand. Some all-ins are blind and require a bit of luck, and a lot more of micro.
Below are some replays I have made that will give you a general, first-person perspective on the game at hand. The concept behind the builds are posted in the video descriptions.I encourage you all to critique the builds and/or adjust them to your suiting.
More builds are on the way as I utilize them or create them. Also, post your own text/video/replays of all-ins that you would like to share! The weirder the build, the more likely it will work... kind of.
Background info: as of 8/1/12: LGStrikeR, Rank 8 Master, 97 wins, 78 losses, 1324 points
PvZ: 3 Base SkyToss
+ Show Spoiler +
PvZ: 7 Gate All-In
+ Show Spoiler +
PvZ: Faux 3-Base Collo Push (suggested by Chelch)
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67574
PvT: Ninja 4-Gates
+ Show Spoiler +
PvT: Blink Robo All-In
+ Show Spoiler +
PvP: Faux 2-Gates
+ Show Spoiler +
Last edit: 2012-10-10 12:14:58 |
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| StimmedProbe Hong Kong. August 12 2012 21:24. Posts 63 | Profile Blog # |
As a terran player I can only really comment on your PvT strategy. Basically if I don't see a 2nd pylon I know some sneaky shit is going on. Either he is proxying a 2nd gateway for some 3stalker rush, or he is proxying 3gateways for a 4gate. Any half decent terran is going to notice the lack of a 2nd pylon and get suspicious not to mention the extremely high chronoboost level. Let's say I get unlucky and scout you late and cannot see anything. In that case I would drop a scan with my 2nd 50 energy to confirm an expo or not. As soon as I scout no expo I would immediately build a 2nd bunker and send out an scv to scout around.
There is a reason people don't really 4gate terrans, because if the terran is playing perfectly he will hold it off easily. You are really banking on the terran cutting corners or just making mistakes. |
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| LGStarcraft United States. August 12 2012 21:35. Posts 39 | Profile # |
On August 12 2012 21:24 StimmedProbe wrote:
As a terran player I can only really comment on your PvT strategy. Basically if I don't see a 2nd pylon I know some sneaky shit is going on. Either he is proxying a 2nd gateway for some 3stalker rush, or he is proxying 3gateways for a 4gate. Any half decent terran is going to notice the lack of a 2nd pylon and get suspicious not to mention the extremely high chronoboost level. Let's say I get unlucky and scout you late and cannot see anything. In that case I would drop a scan with my 2nd 50 energy to confirm an expo or not. As soon as I scout no expo I would immediately build a 2nd bunker and send out an scv to scout around.
There is a reason people don't really 4gate terrans, because if the terran is playing perfectly he will hold it off easily. You are really banking on the terran cutting corners or just making mistakes.
Interesting analysis. Feedback from other races are extremely helpful in refining builds and understanding their reads. I can see how a missing pylon would raise suspicion towards an all-in, but the builds as I said are purely situational. To execute this build, you do not necessarily have to proxy the other 3 gates. You just have to keep them out of sight. A majority of my games I tend to put the gates in my base since I scout the Terran earlier than expected. I just drop the 2nd pylon somewhere easy to scout. The SCV slips in, sees it, and runs off.
As for the initial stalker and the stockpiled chronoboosts: the first stalker should be able to deny any sort of scouting that would suggest a warpgate rush. However, if an SCV does manage to slip inside, the protoss can simply spend his boosts (before the SCV can see it) on a quicker economy and delay warpgate tech a few seconds.
Regardless, the build is simply a 4-gate and as you said, it can be easily held off. 3 bunkers will completely destroy this aggression. I do have a replay though where I encountered a wall of bunkers at the ramp, but I GS'd and ran my army past them and won.
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| Mesha Bosnia-Herzegovina. August 12 2012 21:36. Posts 434 | Profile Blog # |
Yea, i like this play style. Somehow, since i started playing sc2 i always just wanted to attack. As soon as possible. With time i learned to macro, at least to be 1000 points master player, but it's just not my cup of tea.
I like to attack at 5 min, 8 min, ... I do 11 gate build in PvP, this is nowhere near all in build but its so fun and aggressive, and if you have really strong early game micro and mechanics taking wins from top masters is just too easy. Good early micro can win you games vs perfect 3 stalker counter, that's how important is to have this aggresive micro skillz ^_^.
As for PvZ, i feel a bit ashamed, not for me but for zerg players. They play soo fucking naive, standard, greedy, and they have the nerve to call that macro! - that shit made me to develop all in from cecils opening that is early, strong, fun, aggressive and stupid and easy as hell. Here is few examples PvZ_all_ins.
PvT is the only matchup where i macro. I would soo much like to have a nice, fun all in but nothing isn't really catch my eye yet. This 4 gate is ok but i don't know, good players can't be that easily fooled like you showed in your replay. 4 gate in PvT is a little too obvious and too old.
Nice write up by you, but somehow i feel that not many people like this playstyle, like it's good for improving and shit. But i and many other players, don't want to be fucking bonjwas or pro players, its just for good fun and action packed sc2 games... and little to piss of the kids :D. Last edit: 2012-08-12 21:39:39 |
| | Reality hits you hard bro. |
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| ThyLastPenguin United Kingdom. August 12 2012 22:05. Posts 87 | Profile # |
Thanks, I've been looking for good ways to all in if I feel like a fast game.
By the way, your PvT video is named wrong, It says PvP in the title 
I'll try them out and post results
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| | "Stephano is pretty much saving SC2 one hidden knife and pedophile joke at a time." - Fionn |
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 Belial88 United States. August 12 2012 22:11. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
yea that zerg was a retard. did you see how ridiculously late his greater spire, and hive were. And who makes banelings against toss like that? just weird.
Speedbane+corruptor can be okay as a response to double stargate, which would have actually rolled you, but he didn't get spire first, he got infestors. The repeated fail bane attacks led to late tech, no army, no fourth. If he had simply gone roaches instead of banes he could have easily held those archons, although he really should have had broodlords by that time.
And why max out on voids? carriers are much better imo. |
| | How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100 |
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 iLevitate United States. August 12 2012 22:26. Posts 137 | Profile # |
TBH, i feel like the Faux 2 gate kinda risky.
For instance, what if your opponent scout around your stuff and only see 1 zealot + cybercore?
If he 2 gates defend, for sure he sent out stuffLast edit: 2012-08-12 22:26:51 |
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| Wasihasi Germany. August 12 2012 22:55. Posts 31 | Profile # |
| The point is to make him go Forge+Cannon which slows his Cybercore+WG considerably, while you just make a quite fast 4Gate in the end. |
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| Arcanefrost Belgium. August 12 2012 23:03. Posts 1119 | Profile Blog # |
| I don't think good players will go forge vs center map proxies, you can just three gate zealot defense and hold pretty easily. Your pvt build is good vs fe, but imo a later zealot/sentry 4gate with nexus cancel is a lot better. I doubt your pvz build can hold any timings, especially stephano style would completely overrun you. |
| | Valor is a poor substitute for numbers. |
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| Wasihasi Germany. August 12 2012 23:12. Posts 31 | Profile # |
As for the PvZ - you label this as an all-in, but from 3 Bases with the maxed army it is actually not. I play pure skytoss variation of this with very fast mothership and very fast third and while you do this amount of pressure you still can build 4th and 5th if you like and continue to pressure. To your composition the way it was there is a quite hard counter - hydras/infestors. Mass hydra with upgrades will shred this army quite nicely while infestors can hold your ground units in position - to deal with this you need either templars with storm (you had none), colossus (no robo) or carriers - not enough stargates in your case.
@Belial88: You cannot max voids as P - this will get rolled by infestor/hydra extremely onesided, you need some carriers (actually like 50/50 is probably the best ratio against any composition the zerg can make). And Broodlords are mostly waste of resources - voidray kill them very fast, you just need to target-fire them. |
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| Wasihasi Germany. August 12 2012 23:17. Posts 31 | Profile # |
On August 12 2012 23:03 Arcanefrost wrote:
I don't think good players will go forge vs center map proxies, you can just three gate zealot defense and hold pretty easily. Your pvt build is good vs fe, but imo a later zealot/sentry 4gate with nexus cancel is a lot better. I doubt your pvz build can hold any timings, especially stephano style would completely overrun you.
No, it does not (PvZ).
At the time Stephano's push comes he will have 4+ Voids and sometimes even the mothership, if he can harass good enough. Actually Airtoss if played correctely is only weak against nydus/hydra push, where nydus is done in front of P's base (not very common), because you don't have units to adequatly defend it (voids suck against hydras) and most important you can not secure your natural AND third with the mothership at the same time, because you are commiting to some gates, and therefore you will miss some cannons, which are vital to defend hydra aggression.
Last edit: 2012-08-12 23:20:31 |
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| Arcanefrost Belgium. August 12 2012 23:26. Posts 1119 | Profile Blog # |
| No way you hold it with the build from the op. His mothership isn't even halfway done when stephano style would hit, and 4 voids/3cannons/1zealot cannot hold the third. Roaches to third combined with ling runby in main and gg. |
| | Valor is a poor substitute for numbers. |
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| Wasihasi Germany. August 12 2012 23:43. Posts 31 | Profile # |
You operate in vacuum. The point is - voidrays harass Z, so he is not in position to execute Stephanos max right in time - add at least one or even two minutes to the time it will hit in reality. I mean - there are 4 void rays near your third or natural, so you need to build some freaking defense, one spore will not cut it. If you open with one phoenix it is like a given that you will either build more queens (less money, less drones) or more static defense (same) or you will lose queen(s) and base(s). I open with one stargate into mothership and have very little defense overall (expect cannons) and even then stephano's max is like the smallest problem i will ever have.
Before more arguments will start around this stuff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333403
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| Salient United States. August 13 2012 01:04. Posts 336 | Profile # |
Thanks for making the tutorial videos. I have some requests if you are thinking of doing more tutorials. 
PvP -- one-base blink all-in
PvZ -- FFE into sentry/immortal all-in
PvT -- 1 gate FE into colossi all-in
PvT -- 1 gate FE into 6 gate sentry/zealot all in |
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| TheRealzz August 13 2012 05:03. Posts 150 | Profile # |
| I hate you PROTOSS!! I do |
| | One-base play is aggression ? |
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| LGStarcraft United States. August 13 2012 05:28. Posts 39 | Profile # |
On August 12 2012 23:03 Arcanefrost wrote:
I don't think good players will go forge vs center map proxies, you can just three gate zealot defense and hold pretty easily. Your pvt build is good vs fe, but imo a later zealot/sentry 4gate with nexus cancel is a lot better. I doubt your pvz build can hold any timings, especially stephano style would completely overrun you.
Of course these sorts of all-ins (that require over-reaction) won't work on seasoned players who know what to do in every situation. But as you can see up until even mid masters, a defensive forge is always a likely option for them.
The Ninja 4-Gates is built around the idea of the fake expand, where you actually drop a nexus but then cancel it. However, this build allows a slight economic edge over it, and it allows you to mine just enough gas (400) for the early attack. If you can deny scouting, it works almost just as well. The buildings at the natural still trick even top masters players.
As for the PvZ SkyToss, the FFE is already a safe bet against any sort of early ling and roach aggression. If they do go for the Stephano (which hits at 12), you can easily delay it with air harassment. Also, once you scout it you should be throwing down way more cannons and be getting sentries to stall the zerg army, while your air army does work. Last edit: 2012-08-13 05:37:53 |
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| LGStarcraft United States. August 13 2012 07:26. Posts 39 | Profile # |
On August 12 2012 23:26 Arcanefrost wrote:
No way you hold it with the build from the op. His mothership isn't even halfway done when stephano style would hit, and 4 voids/3cannons/1zealot cannot hold the third. Roaches to third combined with ling runby in main and gg.
The build was definitely executed messily, but Taldarim Alter is a map where a 3rd is not easily accessible. The fact that his 3rd was so late meant that his roach timing would be incredibly weak. Another guess would be that he's actually on 4 bases, which would delay his push in time for me to get adequate defenses. These replays are not a 1-size-fits-all deal. You have to adapt them to what you can see or predict.
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| Chelch United Kingdom. August 15 2012 05:21. Posts 154 | Profile # |
Figured I'd share a build I've been having fun with, since you said it was okay for people to share builds. This is a PvZ build, you open stargate, then quickly tech to robotics and Colossus. You fake a third base while getting 2 colossus, and then push.
+ Show Spoiler +game source: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/675749 - Pylon (low ground) [SCOUT] 17 - Nexus 17 - Forge 17 - Gateway 17 - Pylon 18 - Cannon 18 - Gas x2 21 - Core @Core 100% - stargate + sentry @6:00 - 2x gas @Stargate 100% - Voidray -> phoenix x4 @7:20 - Robotics Facility @8:00 - Gateway x3 & +1Ground Weapons @Robotics Facility 100% - Robotics bay + Observer @9:00 Gateway x3 @Robotics bay 100% - Colossus + Extended Thermal Lance @10:30 - Third Nexus @2 Colossus - Cancel Third Nexus and push Execution Notes: This build relies on the Robotics Bay not getting scouted. This will work best against a player that responds to a macro Protoss with either Infestors, or Hydralisks. It will work somewhat less effectively against Roach/ling (depending on the engagement), and should have a hard time vs a fast muta build. It is important to use the stargate units to clear up overlords around the main base, but NOT at the third base. The Zerg must be given every oppurtunity to see the third base building, so that he can react to it, but he must not be allowed into the main. A good benchmark for the moveout would be 11:30, as this is the time Squirtle moves out against Symbol. Pre-warpgate, only sentries should be made from the gateway, and only where gas allows. Don't delay the stargate, any of the stargate units, or the robotics, for sentries. |
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| LGStarcraft United States. August 21 2012 15:09. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| Haha that's a very interesting build Chelch. I heard of canceling an expansion at the natural, but it never really crossed my mind to cancel a 3rd. It seems very solid considering most zerg responses to early air is infestor or hydra play. Of course more and more zerg learn to not over-react with the hydra count, and instead go straight to spire tech. Still, the build would seem to hit at a timing where they won't have enough anti-air to stop the deathball. |
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| Acritter August 25 2012 11:28. Posts 1562 | Profile # |
| None of the videos play. Says that they're "private". Any idea what the issue may be? |
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