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| redbrain United Kingdom. August 13 2012 06:41. Posts 110 | Profile # |
I played a few games of tvp with a friend today and i really don't know what i am doing wrong in these my viking and ghost control is bad but its still work in progress 3 hotkeys of units is very hard to control in a straight up fight.
I don't feel i cant do damage in TvP at all and that i cant seem to trade efficiently. And even in other games how does it work, when say you open your standard 10-11 min timing you cant walk up and ramp into a zealots and collosus?!
I really dont understand how any terran wins in this matchup at the moment i think maybe they stay much heavier on 2 base and go ghost of vikings and try to hit a timming to punish a protoss teching to hard to a switch to collosus or ht.
Just needed to rant: Anyways my replays:
http://drop.sc/237189
Both games are fairly long, once he got his 4th base i couldn't keep up, i didnt feel i could counter doing any damage to him. i was opening a 1 rax into 3 rax tech into fairly fast 3rd. But i kept having bad engagements.
forgot yeah i was being derp at the start and epicly supply blocked myself because my cat walk over the screen 
http://drop.sc/237188
This game is very similar except he opened maybe FE into a 3 gate or 4 gate pressure and did alot of damage but in the end i couldnt seem to get any drops or do any damage to him.Last edit: 2012-08-13 06:57:14 |
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| Cyro United Kingdom. August 13 2012 07:47. Posts 5737 | Profile Blog # |
First game, you had no idea what he was doing. You didnt scout the twilight council, gasses, unit composition or basically anything at all. You had very little information. I would be shocked if i found a mid masters terran who in an actual legitimate game had the amount of information you had, and that is for a reason. You also had not the best possible execution+macro (just small differences, but that is all that really matters) but you waited for 4 medivacs, and you made several pauses, with him playing as he was you really should have hit him a minute or so earlier to abuse the lack of storm etc. You could have crippled him in several ways with a 2 or 4 medivac timing by playing differently than how you did, kinda hard to explain, but if you watch a pro terran play some TvP - the medivac timing is extremely common and they will often cripple or kill protoss who are playing well enough to make your opponents look like a joke.
In the later engagement you could have steamrolled him, but you rightclicked your army (and medivacs on the same hotkey) across the map and it split up, he killed a bunch of units, and then you were attacking rocks or something with half your army. If you won that engagement you would have instantly won the game, and it was yours to take but you just had horrible control and micro after you wasnt watching and controlling your army more carefully when you was moving around
And even in other games how does it work, when say you open your standard 10-11 min timing you cant walk up and ramp into a zealots and collosus?!
Thankfully medivacs dont need ramps. If you know his robo timing you can time out the first and second colossi and hit with 2 or 4 medivacs game dependantly, drop with 1-4 of them at the same time, split your units up, with good macro and most importantly crisp and fast aggression to hit him as hard as possible as early as possible if you pull everything off correctly you should be able to flat out end the game vs pretty much anyone sub masters, but there is a lot of game sense and intuition that you need to learn to be able to know when where and how your opponent is weak so you can turn what looks like an unwinnable game into a one sided slaughterfest.
Taeja wouldnt lose to some platinum protoss, he would go 50-0 almost certainly, what is he doing differenty? in the end, almost entirely nothing, he just does everything that everyone else does, but better, watch very carefully and closely and look for specifics and small details, and dont be afraid to get rid of previous beliefs. Starcraft is about depth in simplicity, you just need to learn to see it and learn from it.
Edit: And stop spamming. You are so busy spamming to 211apm in platinum league that you keep making major mistakes. An average of 1.38 hotkey selections PER SECOND (real seconds) for the entire game? Why?Last edit: 2012-08-13 08:00:19 |
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| rauk United States. August 13 2012 12:20. Posts 1706 | Profile Blog # |
you need to start your second supply depot basically as soon as you put down your CC, otherwise you block yourself really hard. you end up 5 workers behind even though he doesn't really chrono his nexus at all due to this block. faking a bunker rush vs protoss isn't that great, not nearly as effective as it is in tvz. if he skips his first zealot you should definitely ebay block, but fake bunker rush in tvp doesn't really accomplish much.
your build order isn't very efficient. with the amount of marines you made i assume that you want to do a marine medivac timing to try and punish either a fast third with no colossus or 2 base chargelot with slightly delayed storm (due to either robo or double forge). however you make 2 techlab rax and get slow shells instead of combat shields, and your +1 is late.
the correct build order should be 1rax CC rax rax gas gas, techlab, stim with first 100 gas, factory with next 100 gas, 2 reactors on rax, ebay, 3rd gas, starport, reactor on factory, +1, double medivac, start floating your factory to his 3rd or natural, combat shields, then marauders instead of marines out of your one techlab rax. move out when your 3rd and 4th medivac are about halfway done. after this i do 3rd CC, rax rax ebay armory, then academy or second port. if you execute correctly you should have 4 medivacs, combat shields, stim, +1, plus your floated factory in his third or natural at around 10:40. demo of build order in this rep: http://drop.sc/237305
your attack didn't succeed because it's almost a minute late, you don't have combat shields, +1, or a factory. plus you're something like 10 marines behind in your macro because you made a techlab instead of a reactor on your rax. the factory is very important for drawing stalker fire when you first stim in. you can also use it to choke off zealots on a map like entombed, and then land/lift as you need to attack yourself. on seeing his army you should have either backed off, or just tried to drop his probe line in both his natural and main at the same time. dropping in his main, focusing a gateway half down, and then fighting an army that's twice the size of yours instead of bugging out isn't a very good drop.
as for the midgame, you need to scan for observers and make sure to position your ghosts correctly. you screw up the engagement at your third because your bio is in front of your ghosts plus he has obs sitting over your army, which let him storm everything. you also just stop making any units at all for about 2 minutes here and your main is mined out but you didn't transfer any workers to your fourth. ideally you'd constantly check for obs with zoom in/out, but if you can't remember (i certainly can't) just scan every time you want to make a major army movement or if you just think there's an obs over your army.
you also lose every ghost at 24 minutes. sure you emp his army, but then you don't engage, which means all that gas and emp was completely wasted. you were ahead with +1 here; it doesn't make any sense at all to send out your ghosts and emp his whole army, but then back off.
at 25:20 you lose all your vikings for free. you can't attack colossi like that, if you want free hits you have to park them over empty air space like the ridges behind the natural or at the third, or else fight with your whole army. that isn't a good spot to engage the protoss army anyways, you should have tried to stop him from coming up the ramp. if he had an obs over your army he could've stopped you from coming up the ramp himself and massacred your army or killed your fourth.
you spend too much time trying to snipe HT. use emp, requires less apm plus you do more "damage" to the protoss army, and a lot faster to spam out over his archons. it also lets you spend time kiting chargelots. you're also too afraid to engage most of the time, which is why you lost all your vikings and ghosts for free, even though the fights would've actually been fairly even or in your favor. you need to learn how to assess which fights you can try to micro out and which aren't worth it.
also lots of times towards the end of the game where you just stop making units for no reason.
let me know if you have any questionsLast edit: 2012-08-13 12:23:09 |
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