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| arkstarcraft United States. August 15 2012 06:23. Posts 6 | Profile # |
Just a while ago I was playing a Brood War mod on the Arcade when I got an intriguing idea. What if there was the SC2 WE all know and loved, but with a fourth race. Specifically the Hybrids.
For a long time I have heard fans fantasizing of What a fourth race would be like in SC2. And many people Point to the Hybrid as a legitimate realization of this DreAm. However, I have not seen anyone Propose that the community build the fourth race ourselves.
I'M talking a Unique tech Tree with Unique models. New units with New models, and so on. The challenge would be long and hard. But with so many mod makers already creating FanTastic custom play experience why couldn't it be done? Conceptualizers, designers, and mod makers could band together to make it happen.
Now, I know that this is most likely just a pipe DreAm. But being as the sC community has already produced countless masterpieces, why not attempt something bigger and better than them all. A New community created SC2 race. And What better foundation than the already existing Hybrid.
Please share your thoughts on the matter!
P.S. I am not a map Maker, nor have I attempted to use the custom game Maker. I am just opening up the subject for further discussion, and perhaps even bringing this to the attention of those WhO could make it happen. |
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| BreakfastBurrito United States. August 15 2012 06:29. Posts 669 | Profile # |
| I played a game with a 4th race once. It wasn't hybrids, it was robots or something. |
| | Yapper891 if you are reading this, PM me. its Twisty. |
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| Yonnua United Kingdom. August 15 2012 06:53. Posts 1040 | Profile Blog # |
| The problem with this is that blizzard have enough trouble trying to balance 3 races and adding a fourth would mean that the new units would need to balance against all the other races or at least be a lot closer. Also, having it as a mod, most people will just want to play as the fourth race, not the normal ones, so it becomes lame and slightly far off the concept of a 4th race. |
| | PartinG | NaNiwa | Creator | Mvp | Bomber | Oz | FanTaSy | JangBi |
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| dabosaur Sweden. August 15 2012 06:57. Posts 86 | Profile # |
It's a cool idea indeed.
I got an idea for the race but I don't think everyone likes it tho. A HERO like in wc3! Instead of leveling with him you should get hero upgrades(for skills and attributes). It could be cool but it may not fit into this game. Could be cool with different hero timings
Im sorry if it's too far away from topic. |
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| arkstarcraft United States. August 15 2012 07:14. Posts 6 | Profile # |
On August 15 2012 06:53 Yonnua wrote:
The problem with this is that blizzard have enough trouble trying to balance 3 races and adding a fourth would mean that the new units would need to balance against all the other races or at least be a lot closer. Also, having it as a mod, most people will just want to play as the fourth race, not the normal ones, so it becomes lame and slightly far off the concept of a 4th race.
Actually none of the current races need change in the slightest. The new race would be balanced in coherence with the other three races. Zealots need not change, but the Hybrids early game units would be balanced around the Zealot for example
I do agree that most people would just play the mod in order to try out the new race. But I still think it would be fun to see it in action. And consider this, perhaps if the community enjoys playing as a fourth race Blizzard would consider one of their own.
In the end though, this would just be a fun project. I doubt it would get picked up by mod makers. And I doubt it would ever be completed once started. But still, I would really enjoy it. And I hopes to see it come to pass. |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. August 15 2012 07:23. Posts 27051 | Profile Blog # |
On August 15 2012 06:53 Yonnua wrote:
The problem with this is that blizzard have enough trouble trying to balance 3 races and adding a fourth would mean that the new units would need to balance against all the other races or at least be a lot closer. Also, having it as a mod, most people will just want to play as the fourth race, not the normal ones, so it becomes lame and slightly far off the concept of a 4th race.
Night Elf
Orc
Undead
Human
WarCraft III, relatively "balanced" (sorta). |
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| Big J Austria. August 15 2012 07:46. Posts 5032 | Profile Blog # |
Well, it would be fun to play around with that stuff, but I actually think that already 3races are borderline too much.
Not due to balancing and stuff like that, rather because people want to see certain MUs and races - which would get even worse with more races.
Also less races means more refinement for the actual design and balancing, because you don't always have to think about too many MUs. |
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| iamcaustic Canada. August 15 2012 08:10. Posts 801 | Profile Blog # |
On August 15 2012 07:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:53 Yonnua wrote:
The problem with this is that blizzard have enough trouble trying to balance 3 races and adding a fourth would mean that the new units would need to balance against all the other races or at least be a lot closer. Also, having it as a mod, most people will just want to play as the fourth race, not the normal ones, so it becomes lame and slightly far off the concept of a 4th race.
Night Elf Orc Undead Human WarCraft III, relatively "balanced" (sorta).
Orc OP, man.
+ Show Spoiler +Never watched professional WC3 outside of some games by Moon and Grubby, but I remember "Orc OP" for some reason lol. Kinda like Terran OP in SC2; regardless whether it's true or not, it's almost like a meme. |
| | Founder and SC2 Mapmaker for the Galaxy mapmaking team || @iamcaustic || @galaxyesports || galaxyesports.com | |
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| Yonnua United Kingdom. August 15 2012 08:27. Posts 1040 | Profile Blog # |
On August 15 2012 07:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:53 Yonnua wrote:
The problem with this is that blizzard have enough trouble trying to balance 3 races and adding a fourth would mean that the new units would need to balance against all the other races or at least be a lot closer. Also, having it as a mod, most people will just want to play as the fourth race, not the normal ones, so it becomes lame and slightly far off the concept of a 4th race.
Night Elf Orc Undead Human WarCraft III, relatively "balanced" (sorta).
Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 are very different games and some custom mod for SC2 won't have the same level or team of balance designers as WC3. |
| | PartinG | NaNiwa | Creator | Mvp | Bomber | Oz | FanTaSy | JangBi |
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| Mataza Germany. August 15 2012 08:38. Posts 1614 | Profile Blog # |
On August 15 2012 08:10 iamcaustic wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 07:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
On August 15 2012 06:53 Yonnua wrote:
The problem with this is that blizzard have enough trouble trying to balance 3 races and adding a fourth would mean that the new units would need to balance against all the other races or at least be a lot closer. Also, having it as a mod, most people will just want to play as the fourth race, not the normal ones, so it becomes lame and slightly far off the concept of a 4th race.
Night Elf Orc Undead Human WarCraft III, relatively "balanced" (sorta).
Orc OP, man. + Show Spoiler +Never watched professional WC3 outside of some games by Moon and Grubby, but I remember "Orc OP" for some reason lol. Kinda like Terran OP in SC2; regardless whether it's true or not, it's almost like a meme.
You´ve got it wrong. It´s "N811 op" and "Nelf imba"
Demon Hunter and Bears and Dryads too strong.
Anyway, the difference between the races in mechanics is very strong in SC2. We need more than "make a hybrids race, dude"
For example, Terran buildings have addons and the workers are attackable while building, while zerg can only build on creep and use up the worker for every building.
What makes Hybrids Hybrids? Start with mode of construction imho.
It should be different, but not too gimmicky. I´d say it walloff and simcity should both be possible so no crazy placing restrictions.
How about, you place a building, it builds itself(like P and Z), but the worker has to travel from main to the structure to bring new supplies and if it doesnt it stops constructing
So the structure has a minimum construction time, but if you place it too far away from a main it takes much longer.
Just tossing this idea into the pot. Have fun with it. |
| | If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right |
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| AdrianHealey Belgium. August 15 2012 08:43. Posts 480 | Profile # |
| There is someone working on a fourth race. |
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| Fishgle United States. August 15 2012 09:03. Posts 1580 | Profile Blog # |
I remember seeing a Brazilian guy post a 4th race mod before. It had some cool ideas, but it was completely and utterly unbalanced. Every unit had spells or some crazy ability. -edit- found it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333480
If you do decide to make a 4th race, don't forget that your most important units are your simplest ones. Hydras, Dragoons, Marines.Last edit: 2012-08-15 09:15:45 |
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| NewSunshine United States. August 15 2012 09:58. Posts 1016 | Profile # |
There should be a plant-based race. Maybe spread stuff, call it undergrowth or something, and buildings would build a bit faster on it, maybe units would also regen at a reasonable rate while within its reach. Their units would focus on durability, and they'd have a static defense like a spine/spore crawler, which would root/unroot.
I've never bothered to think it through past this point, but the idea has been in my head nonetheless. |
| | [ESV mapmaking team member] [Former DF map team founder] [@ESVNewSunshine] |
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| -NegativeZero- United States. August 16 2012 11:43. Posts 586 | Profile # |
| I think hybrids would be an interesting race if their play style was designed literally as a hybrid between protoss and zerg, with the options of going either cheap and swarmy or expensive and powerful and the ability to easily switch between the two. (Of course, it would have to be designed so that the two don't require completely different compositions to counter so that races which can't tech switch easily wouldn't be screwed over) |
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| DoubleReed United States. August 16 2012 12:02. Posts 3133 | Profile Blog # |
The hardest part isn't really the balancing. It's making the races unique.
In Warcraft III that was mostly done with heroes and casters. Like every race had a light melee, a light ranged, a heavy melee, and a catapult. They all sort of work similarly, but they diverged a lot when it came to how the heroes/casters worked.
In Starcraft it's pretty significant that no units really function like any other and no race really functions like any other. Starcraft 2 actually added that even production and macro mechanics are unique as well. Chronoboost/Warp in vs Creep/Inject vs Mule/Scan/SupplyDrop are all very different from each other.Last edit: 2012-08-16 12:05:49 |
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| i.of.the.storm United States. August 16 2012 12:04. Posts 427 | Profile # |
On August 15 2012 06:23 arkstarcraft wrote:
Just a while ago I was playing a Brood War mod on the Arcade when I got an intriguing idea. What if there was the SC2 WE all know and loved, but with a fourth race. Specifically the Hybrids.
For a long time I have heard fans fantasizing of What a fourth race would be like in SC2. And many people Point to the Hybrid as a legitimate realization of this DreAm. However, I have not seen anyone Propose that the community build the fourth race ourselves.
I'M talking a Unique tech Tree with Unique models. New units with New models, and so on. The challenge would be long and hard. But with so many mod makers already creating FanTastic custom play experience why couldn't it be done? Conceptualizers, designers, and mod makers could band together to make it happen.
Now, I know that this is most likely just a pipe DreAm. But being as the sC community has already produced countless masterpieces, why not attempt something bigger and better than them all. A New community created SC2 race. And What better foundation than the already existing Hybrid.
Please share your thoughts on the matter!
P.S. I am not a map Maker, nor have I attempted to use the custom game Maker. I am just opening up the subject for further discussion, and perhaps even bringing this to the attention of those WhO could make it happen.
Off topic, but I like your subtle references to teams and players with the funky upper case letters. Not sure what you're going for though? |
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 Barrin United States. August 17 2012 07:29. Posts 4206 | Profile Blog # |
This is really cool for a fun arcade map.
BTW the last (and only afaik) community-created race was just that: a community-created race, made by a community (not just 1 person ^^). It was the robots mentioned aboved.
In terms of competitive balance while preserving uniqueness, this is a bitch and a half. Times ten to the power of twenty. Sorry, the degree of WC3 balance wouldn't be acceptable in Starcraft. Pretty good though, probably as good as any 4-race equilibrium has ever been; so there hasn't really been a precedent for this.
If there was going to be a 4th race though, it's gotta be Hybrids. |
| | "It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." -Voltaire |
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| Areon United States. August 17 2012 07:44. Posts 272 | Profile # |
| Search Mecha Test. It's a custom map with a fourth race that doesn't have anywhere near the amount of attention it deserves. Maybe you'll get some ideas and it's hella fun to play. |
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| courtpanda August 17 2012 09:53. Posts 765 | Profile Blog # |
On August 17 2012 07:44 Areon wrote:
Search Mecha Test. It's a custom map with a fourth race that doesn't have anywhere near the amount of attention it deserves. Maybe you'll get some ideas and it's hella fun to play.
the guy who made it asked me to playtest it for him. really hard to get the hang of it |
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| Laertes August 21 2012 12:40. Posts 411 | Profile Blog # |
| I think that if we were to make new races, there should be three of them, separate from the real game. They should be very similar to BW. I actually am working on a google doc planning project for an sc2mapster community project that will implement this. |
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