|
Hi all!
I'm here now, and I'll be trying to catch up in the thread for the next few hours. Hopefully I'll be ready to start really contributing soon.
|
I'm here. I meant to be through the thread already, but I didn't sleep last night, and subsequently fell asleep today while I was making my way through the thread. I quickly scanned through the last few pages, but since I've still missed much of the discussion I can't informedly place my vote. I'm going to have to bandwagon today.
|
Finally finished reading through the entire thread. That being said, I'm going to need to now look through filters to come to more confident scumreads. Just let me know if there's anything you'd like me to answer quickly/specifically. I'm getting a late start, but I intend to begin carrying my weight.
I'm not sure how much consideration people are still giving the night 1 kills, but this quote popped out at me as I was reading through the thread.
On September 09 2012 07:03 austinmcc wrote: Also an option that mafia pretty much KNOWS ottox is gonna get killed. Half the town calling for him to be vigi-d. So town may have put a watcher on him to see who came calling. Mafia vigi shooting ottox gives him a legitimate claim later on, can be backed up by watching.
Come to think of it...woulda been interesting if scum had suicided on Ottox last night, in hopes of catching blues on him. This seems to indicate that austinmcc had nothing to do with the ottox NK (why would he wonder about a kill that he carried out?), and unless town has two vigi - which I would guess is less likely than a single vigi - I assume scum carried out the kill for one reason or another. I also think that this is when they discovered that he was vigi, leading to his subsequent lynch. I'm not entirely sure what can be gained from this, but I did want to be sure to mention it because it stuck out to me, but only because I was reading with the foreknowledge that he was vigi.
At the moment, I'm most suspicious of Z-Boson. A lot of his posts struck me as a bit off, especially his larger one following the BKE lynch and the one immediately before the last night post. I'm going to need to go through his filter before presenting anything to the class, though.
|
EBWOP: "...and the one immediately before the last day post."
|
I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum?
Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know.
I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite.
##Vote Forumite
|
On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange.
You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted.
|
On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that.
I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play.
What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then?
|
I don't know why Toad hasn't pointed this out before, but he actually responded to your (Z-BosoN's) question about the number of watchers in this post.
I feel as though Forumite has addressed my biggest concerns with him for now. He's clarified what he meant when it appeared that he told Rewok to stop scumhunting, and his response regarding Mav was good enough for me. Most of what's left on him is meta evidence, that he's being less active than in the past, and I don't have that experience with him. His recent posts have made me think of him as slightly townier than before. Especially his post regarding BM and ZB. I like that he's considering them individually, instead of trying to make associative cases between two unflipped players. I feel like scum tend to use associative arguments more. As long as he becomes more active and doesn't say anything overtly scummy, my vote will go towards people who appear scummier.
I've felt as though BM has been sketchy all game, though I do have some experience with trolly/unhelpful town players. That's made me reluctant to vote for him, since these players flip town just as often as scum (in my limited experience). Foru/Toad, I'm making an assumption here that you've both played with him before. Does this seem like typical BM play or is he being more... sketchy? I'd be willing to vote for him if he's not playing to his typical meta, simply because I don't think he's actually helping town, but I'd feel more comfortable with it if I had evidence of him playing scummier than usual.
I'm still going through Z-BosoN's filter. There's so much stuff to analyze, and I'm still having trouble deciding if I find him scummy or just bad/confusing/having different opinions than myself. At this exact moment, I would likely vote for BM just because I haven't had time to work through ZB's filter. ZB has been extremely active, and while I don't see that as necessarily a town trait, we will be able to catch him in the future if he's scum. Hopefully my next class won't be too hectic so I'll have time to finish looking through his filter and make a better decision.
Though I didn't actually vote for Forumite in the voting thread (oops), I'm going to ##Unvote here just to make it clear.
|
On September 12 2012 04:46 Z-BosoN wrote:Oh, nothing against me, huh? Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 04:21 Mementoss wrote:On September 12 2012 04:18 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 04:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 12 2012 03:51 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 11 2012 23:16 Forumite wrote: I dislike most of the case (Z-boson's case on BM), especially him calling BM out for lying, often a "lie" is the player simply forgetting something instead of scum-motivated. What I do agree with is that it´s very bad of BM to have been gone during the BKE lynch. My opinion of BM is that he doesn´t try to help. We want him to be a town leader and all he does is short posts, cryptic or irrelevant passages, FoS on me, taking back FoS on me, saying he actually always suspected me, back and forth.
The old cases on me during N1 were weak, and both BM and Toades said so, so I didn´t do much about them except resolving to get more active, and yet it´s those same reasons that are used to get me lynched today. =/ - You want BILL MURRAY to be the leader? The voice of reason, a beacon for us to rally around? Are you kidding me? - Where is this so called activity? Why is it that my posts are never responded to? Am I lurking to hard? For the last time: On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote: And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? On September 11 2012 01:09 Hopeless1der wrote: Forumite, could you perhaps flesh things out a bit more on Z-Boson, besides his interactions regarding Mattchew? Why is he a better lynch than you right now?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson? Why do you want me to die? Make an effort to explain yourself.For reference, a case on Forumite that is not based on Meta: + Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 02:43 Hopeless1der wrote:First, my original case on Forumite: + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote: I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote: Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello folks ^^ I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote: There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic My followup, continuing my journey through his filter: His entire reasoning for voting matt is to sheep BC: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 21:11 Forumite wrote: Still catching up with the posts made while I was asleep.
For now: ##Vote: Mattchew
He´s a scummy liar and I´m 100% behind BC for calling him out. He didn't even read the entire thread through...He initially just tossed his vote in there because BC was so sure of himself, but that wasn't really the case. How do I know this? Because in his next post, he's defending his 'out of place' vote in the spoilered post below: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real. @BMShow nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. With Matt looking more and more scummy, do you still accuse me of fishing for his role? Your FoS seem to rely on Matt being a townie, which he´s probably not. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote: Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me:
We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads.
But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment?
I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs. One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. More specifically, pulling from the spoilered post above: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. It didn't look strange. Feel free the check the timestamps, his vote came after Palmar confirmed the lie. Forumite says he got mod confirmation anyways, but to what avail? This is a defensive statement when there is nothing to defend against. This is scummy behavior. Why did he have to sheep BC if he had mod confirmation? More scummy behavior. Next, he's reading things between lines that I have a hard time seeing. Read BM's post and show me how you came out of that thinking "Well BM is accusing me of bluefishing": Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Forumite's response to BM: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. Next is him stifling active discussion and being wishy-washy: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. He's kind of hedging his bets on what Matt's flip is going to be. This is a step back from when Matt was a scummy liar in his previous post. So what if we can't lynch more than one target at a time? I disagree with the concept of shutting up at night, but I don't necessarily see that as scum motivated. What is scummy is that we can "worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later." This isn't shutting up at night, this is shutting up in general. Rewok phrased his question poorly as an "alternative D1 target", but the basic concept of CONTINUE TO SCUMHUNT is completely valid to me.
In the next post: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched. What can we conclude if he flips scum or town? In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote: No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? , He basically says that if Matt flips red (which he has) then everyone looks kind of bad sometimes because of disruption and bussing something something waffle. Don't count on finding scum using Matt's flip is the message I got from that. This, in addition to his "find scum later" response to rewok reads very scummy to me. He also pushes his luck with BM regarding the bluefishing, which I don't think actually happened and Forumite is twisting the situation to make BM look bad. For the most part, he's shut up other than to call Mav scum and neglect to address the ottoxlol issue. This is null since he said he'd wanted to shut up at night, but with everything else, I'm reading heavily into Forumite being scum. - Well, I´d hope Bill Murray would at least lead a lynch on a scum sometime during this game. He´s been hanging back, most importantly during yesterdays mislynch. - I´m giving the game the time I can give, but it´s a bloody big game. Lots to read through. 1) At least the thread doesn´t grow that fast anymore, even if that´s because the scum killed the most active posters. - 2) Why Z-boson? I can´t tell, there´s a lot of scumsense and odd posts, but nothing huge and damning. There´s no single thing I can point to that is definetly a scum move, but several that make me suspect there´s a scum motivation somewhere. It´s a big game and the two flipped scum died very, very early, so unfortunately this is the best I can do for now. I´ve gotten a scumread on Z-boson and it´s one of the few that hasn´t changed through the game. I´ve flip-flopped on almost everyone else, but my read on him has been off for a long time. It could just be tunneling of course. 1) This is good then? Not to flatter myself, but you propose to kill the most active poster atm. Liking the silence? This is another pretty good reason why I dont wanna vote Boson lol. He puts so many words in peoples mouthes. I have no idea how "At least the thread doesn´t grow that fast anymore" becomes "you propose to kill the most active poster atm". At thats hardly the first time, he hits on everything, left and right. I somehow have a hard time believing a mafia wouldnt be more...... tactical than that. Dafuq. This if anything IS a real to vote Boson. If you believe he is putting words in peoples mouths, you believe he is pushing scum agenda by doing the following:1) Confusing town 2) Making someone look guilty of something that wasn't said or implied 3) Creates useless discussion based on the fact of putting words in peoples mouths I felt it was implied. I think you went a bit overboard on the semantics of "Putting words into peoples mouths". He means I'm giving people arguments to work with. I understood this, because if you have read the game, that's exactly what I'm doing. You, for some reason, think that means 1) 2) and 3). Since I cannot fathom how it could POSSIBLY mean 1) 2) and 3) granted how I've been posting, I felt that this was implied, granted kreb's statement was entirely towards me. So the only conclusion I can draw from your comment is that you have not yet read the game carefully enough. Please do so, and share your thoughts on mav. Sorry for the aggressiveness, I'm pissed at how some people are behaving here and how that's going unnoticed. If - as Kreb said - you were putting words into peoples' mouths, then momentoss's reaction is completely justified. Putting words into peoples' mouths IS used by scum in all the ways he mentioned. He never once said that you were doing so, he only said that if Kreb thinks you're doing so, then he's interpreting it in the completely wrong way. I agree with him entirely.
This is the second time you've reacted over-defensively to something rather inconsequential. The first was when two people voted for you and you claimed there were five. This was in the middle of the massive wagon building onto Forumite. 8 people vote Forumite, 2 vote you, suddenly it's "OMG where are these votes coming from? This wagon on me is so big and sudden without a case!" Why so defensive?
|
My vote is going to go to Z-BosoN. There are just too many aspects of his play that rub me the wrong way.
BKE played awfully
Following the BKE lynch, ZB's response was to point out how it was the veterans' fault because they wouldn't answer his question regarding whether or not there were likely to be multiple watchers. Keep in mind that Toad actually did address his question in this post. He also points out how he would have constantly repeated the question if he hadn't been forced to keep defending himself "unnecessarily". He points the finger at the remaining vets, says how townish he would have been had he been under less pressure to defend himself, and then martyrs himself by saying that he shouldn't have put up with the silly cases against him. All of this means absolutely nothing. His entire massive post seems like a waste of time to me, but it's clear that he's trying to turn it into townie points for himself.
Following the "vets are all suspicious now" paragraphs, he tells austinmcc to save his case against [him] for day 3, should [they] both live. He then elaborates on what he *would have thought* if austin's case *had come a little bit later.* Not only is he trying to completely stiffle a case being brought against him in order to pursue the illogical suspicions of all of the remaining vets, but, again, this entire section says nothing whatsoever. If this would have happened, then I would have found you scummy. Don't you think I could have found you scummy? But really, you're just thick.
Then there's his death post. Another post that I felt was unnecessary. He says that he thinks Hapa is town because Hapa thought he was town, and then points out how what Hapa said could just be a scumplay trying to gain townie points. I don't even know what we're supposed to have taken from that, but all it did for me was plant the idea of Hapa swindling town points out of our pockets using ZB's sterling reputation. It feels like he's subtly boosting his own towncred while calling Hapa's into question.
He then says that he didn't like Toad's good-bye post.
... Why are you writing a good-bye post if you don't like that someone else did it?
He follows it up by saying that if Forumite flips red, then Toad *might* be confirmed town. He also points out how very good at bussing Toad is. Again, this entire paragraph tells us nothing.
Finally, we get to the "Lurkers" section, where he points fingers at everyone else in the game. He also repeats the fact that the scum vigi hasn't used his shots yet. First of all, he seems too certain of there being a scum vigi. He mentions it repeatedly. On top of town not knowing if one exists, there's nothing we can gain from that reasoning. There's too much wifom involved. This is another case of ZB trying to follow a line of reasoning that doesn't help town (just like his irrational obsession with the number of watchers in the game) and only wastes time. On top of that, he calls for someone who hasn't even been a part of the game yet to be the top lynch candidate for D3. What were we supposed to discuss? How Lvdr didn't post and how I had to read 80 pages to get caught up? This part is a little OMGUS-y, but it's a ridiculous claim that can't be supported in any way. It casts dispersions on me when I haven't done anything. He was attempting to find scummy behaviour where there was none, and distract the town with it.
I apologize that this is appearing so late. I had to attend class and then ride the bus home. It takes forever <.<
##Vote Z-BosoN
|
On September 12 2012 06:43 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 06:30 Shady Sands wrote: FYI--I still think Forumite is scum. However, as he posts more and more like this above, my read on him gets townier and townier. I don't share the opinion that Z-Boson or BM are scum yet, but I do believe they are worth watching.
My main scumreads right now are Gravan and MMToss.
Why? Because both came in at the eleventh hour and wagoned on Forumite late... plus their reads on Z-B or BM were woefully lacking for entering at such a late point in the debate.
IF they want to wagon forumite at this hour, town Gravan and town MMToss would at least put some thought into why they chose him over ZB and BM. But they didn't. That's the biggest scumtell of today--lurkers who try to look active but don't actually "show their work" with regards to their reads.
It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green. Just throwing this out there, but you have posted: Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 04:00 Shady Sands wrote:On September 10 2012 03:54 austinmcc wrote:B-B-B-BONUS FIND! While reading through Forumite, there's this: On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello folks ^^ I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Again, Z-BosoN so concerned with watchers. What do watchers see? What counts as visiting? How many watchers are in the game? Why is he so concerned with watchers? Cuz he's doing something that could get watched. And again, leaning assassin now because he's putting that in thread rather than into QT. Hmmm, interesting. Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 08:33 Shady Sands wrote:On September 11 2012 07:58 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:48 imallinson wrote:On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote: And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? Currently you are looking the most scummy. If you do flip town I'd say the best bet for scum would be Z-Boson. You've voted for him but haven't put much of a reason for people to follow you. It´s more than what happened during the Matt lynch, but it´s hard to put down as a case. I´ll see if I find any concrete evidence while rereading. It´s tough because there are a few I´m leaning town on, or at least put down as town for now, but there are soooooo many players that look a bit scummy. I often get really paranoid when things go bad, or even when things go well. First off, sorry for the Hapa misread. I placed too much stock on his XXIII meta and expected similarly brilliant (cheating) play from him. (kidding about the cheating Hapa, I love you man.) Second, Forumite's neck is on the chopping block and all he's done is make weak reads and flip flop everywhere. Look at the above post. It smacks of an attempt to respond while giving excuses for his lack of legit scum-reads. Going through his filter, all I see is WIFOM and a few bad cases; plus his first few posts (before he asked Palmar about Mattchew) look like he was trying to WIFOM watcher/trackers into complete inaction on Mattchew. On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Without further ado, ## Unvote ## Vote Forumite During this entire day cycle. Which is one more post that myself, up until the last hour or so. While it certainly is true that the bulk of my posting has been right before the vote, you have contributed less than I have. The only claim you have over me is that you stated your position of Forumite earlier, then lurked. I wouldn't call "I'm only slightly more scummy than you" a defense.
|
@ShiaoPi: Why do you find Z-BosoN scummy?
@Z-BosoN: I'll accept most of your responses. There are some that I would disagree with, but not many that I still feel I can consider scummy. A combination of quickly approaching deadlines, a previously scummy view of you after reading extremely quickly through the thread, a desire to save Forumite (though late, I admit), and confirmation biases contributed negatively to that last post. I've gone through it and narrowed it down to anything I still consider somewhat scummy.
There's one thing that still bothers me. What made your belief in a scum vigi so much stronger than your belief in a watcher?
|
On September 12 2012 12:00 Bill Murray wrote: i really didnt want to lynch forumite. PERIOD. Then why did you vote for him?
|
Guess I'll be going through N1/N2.
|
Anyone know the chance that there's a second suicide bomber? Because if there could be one, I really don't think every blue role should jump on ZB right now... Just sayin'.
|
|
|
|