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| Voiden Australia. August 22 2012 23:54. Posts 6 | Profile # |
Hi, I've currently been having trouble with ZvP, during the time when I'm teching up to Hive. I tend to go roachless and hydra/ling to defend all-ins and mutalisks to pressure. During the transition stage I mass up spines and use fungals to defend. In these reps I managed to hold but it could've been over easily from the protoss had they pushed further on. Are roaches needed in this stage of the game or can I defend with spines and fungal growths? Against 2base all-ins, I defend using Hydra Ling, when I see them take a third, I go for mutalisks to pressure. Except both aren't that great when it comes to the later stages of the game at defending. In the last replay I was destroyed by his push, not sure what I could do from the tech that I had to defend. Thanks any help appreciated.
http://drop.sc/242158
http://drop.sc/242159
http://drop.sc/242162Last edit: 2012-08-23 00:22:14 |
| | It's not about playing the perfect game, it's about winning |
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| Mr. Bojangles United States. August 23 2012 00:08. Posts 15 | Profile # |
The most typical play is try to defend any all ins with composition of Roach/Ling. Making the right amount of ling/roach depending on the type of all in. If you hold off the all in, you're already ahead, no need to go Mutas. Just send whatever units you have left and go attack his 3rd, if you just killed off his attack, you should be able to overrun his 3rd with some ease. If you do that, then you pretty much put yourself so far ahead that it's hard to lose. If he has his 3rd up and you couldn't punish it, just macro up to BL, defend like you have with spines/spores and Infestors and then suicide your roaches at his 3rd when it's time to free up some food for BL.
Mutas against 2 base all ins aren't the best, as if the Toss sees you go Mutas, they just push into your base and usually win as you don't have that much production til your tech is done.
Sorry I couldn't watch your replays, didn't have time to sit down and analyze everything. Hope I was a little help. That seems to be a typical macro game in Diamond.
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| Markwerf Netherlands. August 23 2012 02:09. Posts 2918 | Profile # |
avoid making hydra's, it's just the worst unit in the game.
ZvP you typically have a roach midgame and when you transition into broodlords you want to rely on your roach/ling/infestor army with spines to survive.
A typical macro ZvP goes 3 base opening -> roach/ling -> get a 4th and infestors -> get spire + hive plus a spine wall -> greater spire. If they do a 3 base timing you should be able to buy just enough time with your spines till the broodlords come out, saccing a base is not really a problem either if you have gotten to 4-5 already. |
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| NoisyNinja United States. August 23 2012 04:29. Posts 982 | Profile # |
On August 23 2012 02:09 Markwerf wrote:
avoid making hydra's, it's just the worst unit in the game.
ZvP you typically have a roach midgame and when you transition into broodlords you want to rely on your roach/ling/infestor army with spines to survive.
A typical macro ZvP goes 3 base opening -> roach/ling -> get a 4th and infestors -> get spire + hive plus a spine wall -> greater spire. If they do a 3 base timing you should be able to buy just enough time with your spines till the broodlords come out, saccing a base is not really a problem either if you have gotten to 4-5 already.
Hydras are good against gateway units. They are very underrated. If you can get them out against a delayed stalker immortal all in, you can win easily.Last edit: 2012-08-23 04:41:32 |
| | The world can go fuck itself. I'm not taking out my headphones. |
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| blade55555 United States. August 23 2012 04:34. Posts 14255 | Profile Blog # |
On August 23 2012 04:29 NoisyNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 02:09 Markwerf wrote:
avoid making hydra's, it's just the worst unit in the game.
ZvP you typically have a roach midgame and when you transition into broodlords you want to rely on your roach/ling/infestor army with spines to survive.
A typical macro ZvP goes 3 base opening -> roach/ling -> get a 4th and infestors -> get spire + hive plus a spine wall -> greater spire. If they do a 3 base timing you should be able to buy just enough time with your spines till the broodlords come out, saccing a base is not really a problem either if you have gotten to 4-5 already.
Hydras are good against gateway units. They are very underrated. If you can get them out against a stalker immortal all in, you can win easily.
Sure but guess what he doesn't have to commit. All he has to do is laugh and start making colossi and then you will lose as roach/hydra is an awful composition. |
| | When I think of something else, something will go here |
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| firemasterx Sweden. August 23 2012 19:36. Posts 4 | Profile # |
Hey!
I've been having alot of sucess lately with defending with spines / infestors while teching to brood lords.
One thing I've noticed is that you have to tech hive very fast, in order to have them for an incoming colossus-assault.
If you see the protoss expand _NEVER_ build roaches, you have to save all the gas for infestors/upgrades and later on the brood lord tech. You'll have a ton of minerals if you take your fourth as soon as you spot the third, so you make spines to keep your money down whilst refilling the drone-count in your fourth.
If he pushes out with a standard immortal/sentry/stalker attack that arrives before blord-tech, you can defend it with a swarm of lings, about 12 infestors and alot of spines.
Hope I could help in some way, //High master Z |
| | "Ain't nothing to it, but to do it." |
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| Corsica Ukraine. August 23 2012 20:38. Posts 1773 | Profile # |
On August 23 2012 04:34 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 04:29 NoisyNinja wrote:
On August 23 2012 02:09 Markwerf wrote:
avoid making hydra's, it's just the worst unit in the game.
ZvP you typically have a roach midgame and when you transition into broodlords you want to rely on your roach/ling/infestor army with spines to survive.
A typical macro ZvP goes 3 base opening -> roach/ling -> get a 4th and infestors -> get spire + hive plus a spine wall -> greater spire. If they do a 3 base timing you should be able to buy just enough time with your spines till the broodlords come out, saccing a base is not really a problem either if you have gotten to 4-5 already.
Hydras are good against gateway units. They are very underrated. If you can get them out against a stalker immortal all in, you can win easily.
Sure but guess what he doesn't have to commit. All he has to do is laugh and start making colossi and then you will lose as roach/hydra is an awful composition.
True story + if he get some zealots + guardian shield he can still win :D |
| | Idra is the most overrated pro i swear - someone in chat, after aLive 4-0. Foreign team: Empire Korean team: Startale |
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| Ballistixz United States. August 24 2012 02:48. Posts 1269 | Profile # |
On August 23 2012 04:29 NoisyNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 02:09 Markwerf wrote:
avoid making hydra's, it's just the worst unit in the game.
ZvP you typically have a roach midgame and when you transition into broodlords you want to rely on your roach/ling/infestor army with spines to survive.
A typical macro ZvP goes 3 base opening -> roach/ling -> get a 4th and infestors -> get spire + hive plus a spine wall -> greater spire. If they do a 3 base timing you should be able to buy just enough time with your spines till the broodlords come out, saccing a base is not really a problem either if you have gotten to 4-5 already.
Hydras are good against gateway units. They are very underrated. If you can get them out against a delayed stalker immortal all in, you can win easily.
if you make hydras u are FORCED to all in. with immortal all ins toss is just 1 building away from colo... that means u are on a lifeline that is only a few mins long, and with sentries he can delay for however long he wants with FF if he is a half decent protoss. once the first colo is out u mind as well just gg and leave the game. hydras are so stupidly bad in this game.Last edit: 2012-08-24 02:49:42 |
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| Voiden Australia. August 24 2012 08:38. Posts 6 | Profile # |
| Hydras have a relatively short build time, so I just bank up income and then if I do see them commit to any agression I just produce them all. I use ling hydra together so the lings go from behind and surround them. My problem is that when it comes to the late game do I have to have roaches to defend with that spine wall or can it be pure spine infestor? Or maybe I'm getting to Hive too slow.. |
| | It's not about playing the perfect game, it's about winning |
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