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| Fen1kz Russian Federation. September 16 2012 02:36. Posts 165 | Profile # |
I absolutely love new patch, and in my opinion most innovative thing is:
Phase Sheild: 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected.
thank you blizz, these cannons rape my armies when i play toss!</sarcasm>
but seriously guys - lets talk about ability that least used in WoL, ability that hurt own race mostly
Terrans, what do you prefer:
- Thor + 250mm and energy
- Just a Thor without energy and cannons?
also fun fact: thor with +3 deal more damage than Strike Cannons, which makes them make no benefit except stun (both thor and unit)
and why they remove carrier and leave this Strike Cannons without changes?
so my question (post it to blizz please with corrected english) - why this useless and unnesessary and bad designed ability ruin thor unit and why is it in HotS?
Poll: Should Blizzard change Thor's Strike CannonsYes, change it (158) 94% No, I want it to stay as is (10) 6% 168 total votes Your vote: Should Blizzard change Thor's Strike Cannons (Vote): Yes, change it
(Vote): No, I want it to stay as is
Last edit: 2012-09-20 17:16:51 |
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| Crawdad September 16 2012 02:43. Posts 612 | Profile # |
It is more efficient to use EMP on your own Thors so they won't get Feedbacked.  Last edit: 2012-09-16 02:43:59 |
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| puissance September 16 2012 03:01. Posts 77 | Profile # |
| They should get rid of Thor energy for good, there is really no reason to still have it. Energy-less Thors enable them to be used against Protoss, which is a huge improvement for the matchup for both sides imo. |
| | At the back door there's the collapsible rocks, you wanna destroy those to block off the back door with rocks and your opponent has to kill the rocks, and later you can shoot down the rocks to get to the third.. ~Day9 TvP Hots Battlereport |
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| TzTz Germany. September 16 2012 03:03. Posts 468 | Profile Blog # |
They could make it an anti air option with maybe carriers getting good against mech or smth. Or even against broodlords too. Like, keep the stun and make it do strong single target air dps while stunning it. Would be nice I guess  I probably should be a sc2 developer! |
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| Qikz United Kingdom. September 16 2012 03:13. Posts 6961 | Profile # |
| I've never been able to or seen thor's strike cannons even get used. They get feedbacked before they can use them. |
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| Habitus United Kingdom. September 16 2012 03:20. Posts 53 | Profile # |
| Thor is meant to be an AA unit (mainly Light Air), but is most often used to bust tank lines (ie the Warhound role) so thats why in the Warhound thread i suggested them removing Strike Cannons, Air Attack, and energy and just giving them Haywire Missiles. Then if mech needs an AA unit reintroduce the Warhound with the Air Attack instead of Haywire Missiles, adjust its Ground DPS/speed/supply starting from its current form which is very likely to be unbalanced but works as a starting point rather than randomly guessing what sounds ok. I even suggested giving them the Strike Cannons+energy minus the 2 sec build up/build down and adjusting duration/damage to give them something to bring to your composition while Feedback having less of an impact against cheaper/lower supply units then near killing a high cost/supply unit. |
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| Fen1kz Russian Federation. September 16 2012 03:32. Posts 165 | Profile # |
just someone, please, send idea of useless 250mm to blizz
it has no use, it has no fun, it has no purpose, both noobs and pros dont use it  |
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| Fuchsteufelswild Australia. September 16 2012 18:39. Posts 835 | Profile # |
On September 16 2012 03:03 TzTz wrote:
They could make it an anti air option with maybe carriers getting good against mech or smth.
Oh gawd, if the Warhound was somehow in the game as a less a-move unit was not that good overall but was overall a good unit against mech due to a moderate bonus vs mechanical, without being 'broken good', it might have been an interesting way to add a unit with a bonus versus something, but there are too many "vs armoured" kinds of bonuses as there are. It's not the only way to balance and the carrier has quite good damage, although he range is the main reason the damage can seem so strong. If anything, the Tempest would be more likely to get some bonus..like this damned boring vs Massive bonus they are now getting, just like void-rays. >_<
I don't agree with that being the way to make Tempests interesting either, it's just another lame version of the Pokémon elemental system. "Tempest used 10 range Phasetackle! It's Super Effective! LaTeGaMeZeRg fainted!"
I love being able to Feedback my friend's Thors when I off-race in a casual game against him (just fun muck around games, no so serious. He loves Thors), but I agree it is pretty ridiculous. Either make 250mm Strike Cannons better overall or remove it. Honestly, if Thors needed any extra utility, I'm sure either a different ability or just some slight buff in some way would be more appropriate, but removing the ability and energy would be the main change to make before considering anything else.
I would change the title though. "Imbalanced Strike Cannons" isn't really the issue, it's more like "Masochistic Emo Strike Cannons!" because the people trying to use them only hurt themselves.
Edited to add more.
This is about to get into the more broad topic of HotS Terran but it is all related.
On September 16 2012 03:20 Habitus wrote:
[Good stuff followed by] adjust its Ground DPS/speed/supply starting from its current form which is very likely to be unbalanced but works as a starting point rather than randomly guessing what sounds ok
Your idea might be a good solution or something for Blizzard to try in the HotS beta, although I have to disagree about the warhound. If you were to reintroduce it (for the purpose of more anti air), you most certainly can set some better base value than the ones it was given.
You have similar sort of units in the roach, hydra, stalker and marauder. Two of them are generally better overall fighters on the ground, speaking cost-for-cost (roach and marauder) and one is supply-efficient (marauder). Hydralisks and Stalkers are not so bad for supply as Roaches, although one roach handles a marine better than one Hydralisk or Stalker does, which seems pretty messed up (Marauders without stim are at least meant as anti-armour units rather than general purpose+anti air).
You can also look at the goliath which by no means was terrible at fighting on the ground in Brood War, it wa just far from the best, very similar to a Viking on the ground only with 1 armour and cheaper but firing a little slower than a Viking (more like 1.2686 or let's instead say 1.25 cooldown.
So you could take that cooldown, make it 2 supply and cost more like 100-125 minerals/50-75 gas and balance it around similar ground strength to a goliath, not being an ideal choice for it without actually being horrid while giving it good (possibly with an armour type-specific bonus like anti-armoured) or you scale its hit points, base damage ratings for both ground-to-ground and ground-to-air attacks and keep its cost at 150/75 while obviously increasing its supply to 3 (heck, the previous warhound could handle immortals easily enough, it wasn't even really worth 3 but rather 4 supply!).
No way should it have so many more hit points than a tank, even if it does have above 160.
If they were no longer for breaking siege tank lines (which is unnecessary beyond Thors and anything else current in modern TvT), they wouldn't need the 7 range against ground nor the preposterous speed (2.5 is good) or hit points for rushing to the lines or surviving multiple tank shots, so you just balance them like a terran stalker that has no blink but with slightly stronger ground ability* and better anti-air.
*Maybe? Blink is strong so if the Warhound is just slightly stronger the battles between only Stalkers and only Warhound will be even)
So based on the changed concept, I think that by leaving the other Warhound statistics the same, you'd waste beta time and players' time, thoughts and energy on dealing with a completely imbalanced unit that would function entirely differently because of its sheer basic power. Choose some not at all random numbers that make it roughly equal to a hydra or stalker or else an equal supply and cost of either of them and you immediately start closer to balance. Adjust as necessary.Last edit: 2012-09-16 19:09:23 |
| | Calm - FantaSy - ZerO - Bisu - Jaedong - NaDa - Nal_rA - EffOrt - LosirA - Grubby - Nerchio - Supernova - Squirtle - Leta - Golden |
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| Everlong Czech Republic. September 16 2012 18:44. Posts 1368 | Profile # |
Oh yeah, at least I'd love Blizzard to comment on 250mm Cannons, because what can they really say?
1) It's useless - for Terran.
2) It's useful - for Protoss.
Both answers are pretty much terrible. |
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| Alex1Sun September 16 2012 19:17. Posts 413 | Profile Blog # |
Let's give 250mm cannons a range of 20 (or some other number larger then sieged tank range), no upgrade requirement and make them target buildings only (also balance damage, so that it's neither op nor up).
This makes it more beneficial for terrans to attack rather than turtle, since thors (with scans) will remove cannons / crawlers from afar and be left with little energy, so that feedback (and even neural parasite) is less useful vs them.
This change will also make thors more interesting in positional tank wars in TvT, since they would be able to destroy some buildings from behind the tank range.
It then becomes essential to position your thors appropriately, so that they can shoot opponents' buildings, map control becomes more important, etc. Isn't less plain turtling / plain all-in and more interesting positional wars what we want?
p.s. to make it even more skill oriented make 250mm cannons do little damage for little energy (still at huge range to buildings only), so that they can be used often, keep thor energy low and keep interesting positional aspect.Last edit: 2012-09-16 19:34:02 |
| | This is not Warcraft in space! |
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| ULuMuGuLu September 16 2012 19:19. Posts 190 | Profile Blog # |
On September 16 2012 02:36 Fen1kz wrote:
I absolutely love new patch, and in my opinion most innovative thing is:
Phase Sheild: 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected.
thank you blizz!!</sarcasm>
but seriously guys - lets talk about ability that least used in WoL, ability that hurt own race mostly
Terrans, what do you prefer:
- Thor + 250mm and energy
- Just a Thor without energy?
also fun fact: thor with +3 deal more damage than 250mm ^_^
and why they remove carrier and leave this 250mm alone?
so my question (post it to blizz please with corrected english) - why this useless and unnesessary and bad designed ability ruin thor unit and why is it in HotS?
There's a reason why Thors have energy. I know you wanna look like a genius and say: Hey, there's a thing i discovered.. thor energy hurts the whole Matchup. In reality it's the opposite... -.- When SC2 was released a couple months later they tried to remove Thor energy. What happened next was that every Terran made mass Thors and Protoss couldn't answer that.
Why? Because against Thors u have to make immortals, the funny thing is, Strike cannons own Immortals sooo hard (Yes, even with hardened Shields -> go to Mapeditor and try out) that there was absoluetely no answer for Protoss to counter them. Stalker die so fast to them, Archons are bad against them too... so whats left? Air UNits? Thors kill both, Phoenix AND Voids pretty fast, and until u get carriers you are dead 15 times already. So that's the reason they put in Thor Energy again. Because of mix of HTs (for feedback) + other Units like Immortals can counter it.
I think Jinro...
+ Show Spoiler +
his win against MC in early 2011, GSL Round of 8.. JInro went Mech and beat oGsMC with it. Everyone was thinking: Wow, what a genius. The truth is, this win was shortly after blizzard patched the game and removed THOR ENERGY. Jinro went mass Thor and crushed him because there was no answer for that. It wasn't viable in that way and was OP.. so jeah. After a lot of feedback from both: Community AND Pros AND Blizzard own oppinion, they romoved the change and put in THor energy again.
To come back to what u said: No, your idea sucks to be honest. THis is really no offense but i don't know how long you play the game, maybe you just jumped in and thought, hey i'm smart, i got a pretty good idea. I guess the truth is you didn't went through the patching process of WoL and didn't witness some stuff, so maybe that's the reason you have that - nearly 2 year old AND bad idea.
EDIT:
Oh, jeah... and another thing: The idea behind Strike Cannons in general is to counter Immortals like i said. Immortals are the direct counter to Thors, funny thing is: Strike cannons harcounter IMmortals.. that's the reason why strike cannons are in the game! Try in Mapeditor 1v1... Thor vs Immortal. Thor does 10 dmg per shot (thanks to Hardened Shields) and does virtually no DMG to the Immortal. Which is ok because the Immortal is supposed to counter the thor. Then try again 1v1 but use strike cannons this time and you'll see a BIG BIG difference and then you know why strike cannons are in the game because its an unbelieveable strong cast.
The problem that you try to figure out is that a guy who MIXES units (immortal + HT), counter the guy who only makes thors... -.- u see your think process? It's not very smart to think that way... :-S In a good world the guy who mixes in HTs to feedback thors (so they cant make strike cannons on immortals) the terran would need to mix in GHosts, to EMP the HTs to prevent them from feedbacking the thors.
I guess this pretty much nailed it, and i really tried to explain it in detail even though i was shaking my head whole time left and right because of what you said x_xLast edit: 2012-09-16 19:29:55 |
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| Fuchsteufelswild Australia. September 16 2012 19:25. Posts 835 | Profile # |
@Everlong ^It's rarely used against zerg either! :/
It must be added though, if the ability were to remain in some form, it was once a 50 second cooldown, which was too strong because it allowed Thors to negate immortals that were intended to be rather decent against them.
+ Show Spoiler +[Keyboard errors/lock-ups/@#%!ing stupid Firefox shortcuts that are not listed anywhere occurred here, causing double post >_<
Can anyone tell me what the hell (only)RIGHT alt+shift+stuff does? It seemed to make Firefox act like Alt was being held down even when it was not, no matter how may more times I jabbed it, as if pressing shift with it locked the Alt button like it can do to other keys when playing emulated games!]
EDIT to finish post: The 150 energy took >177-266 seconds to get the energy though (177 with the 50 starting energy) but I sometimes heard that was considered too long, so maybe you would make the cooldown somewhere from 150-200 seconds.
Strike Cannons could possibly be useful against protoss with the cooldown instead and the correct length of cooldown, whatever that may be, but whether Thors having the ability is actually good for the game or not is another matter.
ULuMuGuLu - I know. :S I meant Ultralisks were a worthwhile target occasionally but that it's not worthwhile getting the ability just for that, so my point is that with it only being conditionally useful against Ultralisks and that decision being highly unfavourable to terrans, it's better removed entirely. I wasn't complaining "Terrans don't use it versus zerg! Boohoo! Why not?!", rather I was stating that there's not much point in it for TvZ, which was the matchup that Everlong's comment didn't really address. I was just covering the other point. :/Last edit: 2012-09-16 19:56:09 |
| | Calm - FantaSy - ZerO - Bisu - Jaedong - NaDa - Nal_rA - EffOrt - LosirA - Grubby - Nerchio - Supernova - Squirtle - Leta - Golden |
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| Everlong Czech Republic. September 16 2012 19:32. Posts 1368 | Profile # |
On September 16 2012 19:19 ULuMuGuLu wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 02:36 Fen1kz wrote:
I absolutely love new patch, and in my opinion most innovative thing is:
Phase Sheild: 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected.
thank you blizz!!</sarcasm>
but seriously guys - lets talk about ability that least used in WoL, ability that hurt own race mostly
Terrans, what do you prefer:
- Thor + 250mm and energy
- Just a Thor without energy?
also fun fact: thor with +3 deal more damage than 250mm ^_^
and why they remove carrier and leave this 250mm alone?
so my question (post it to blizz please with corrected english) - why this useless and unnesessary and bad designed ability ruin thor unit and why is it in HotS?
There's a reason why Thors have energy. I know you wanna look like a genius and say: Hey, there's a thing i discovered.. thor energy hurts the whole Matchup. In reality it's the opposite... -.- When SC2 was released a couple months later they tried to remove Thor energy. What happened next was that every Terran made mass Thors and Protoss couldn't answer that. Why? Because against Thors u have to make immortals, the funny thing is, Strike cannons own Immortals sooo hard (Yes, even with hardened Shields -> go to Mapeditor and try out) that there was absoluetely no answer for Protoss to counter them. Stalker die so fast to them, Archons are bad against them too... so whats left? Air UNits? Thors kill both, Phoenix AND Voids pretty fast, and until u get carriers you are dead 15 times already. So that's the reason they put in Thor Energy again. Because of mix of HTs (for feedback) + other Units like Immortals can counter it. I think Jinro... + Show Spoiler +his win against MC in early 2011, GSL Round of 8.. JInro went Mech and beat oGsMC with it. Everyone was thinking: Wow, what a genius. The truth is, this win was shortly after blizzard patched the game and removed THOR ENERGY. Jinro went mass Thor and crushed him because there was no answer for that. It wasn't viable in that way and was OP.. so jeah. After a lot of feedback from both: Community AND Pros AND Blizzard own oppinion, they romoved the change and put in THor energy again. To come back to what u said: No, your idea sucks to be honest. THis is really no offense but i don't know how long you play the game, maybe you just jumped in and thought, hey i'm smart, i got a pretty good idea. I guess the truth is you didn't went through the patching process of WoL and didn't witness some stuff, so maybe that's the reason you have that - nearly 2 year old AND bad idea.
EDIT:Oh, jeah... and another thing: The idea behind Strike Cannons in general is to counter Immortals like i said. Immortals are the direct counter to Thors, funny thing is: Strike cannons harcounter IMmortals.. that's the reason why strike cannons are in the game! Try in Mapeditor 1v1... Thor vs Immortal. Thor does 10 dmg per shot (thanks to Hardened Shields) and does virtually no DMG to the Immortal. Which is ok because the Immortal is supposed to counter the thor. Then try again 1v1 but use strike cannons this time and you'll see a BIG BIG difference and then you know why strike cannons are in the game because its an unbelieveable strong cast. The problem that you try to figure out is that a guy who MIXES units (immortal + HT), counter the guy who only makes thors... -.- u see your think process? It's not very smart to think that way... :-S In a good world the guy who mixes in HTs to feedback thors (so they cant make strike cannons on immortals) the terran would need to mix in GHosts, to EMP the HTs to prevent them from feedbacking the thors. I guess this pretty much nailed it, and i really tried to explain it in detail even though i was shaking my head whole time left and right because of what you said x_x
Sorry, but mentioning map editor 2 times in a single post as a proof of anything pretty much nailed it.
edit: Thors having such a useless ablility only for Protoss being able to counter them is such a fail in design. I guess now that Tempests deal 30+20 to massive, there is no need for energy on Thors. Also, Immortals are supposed to counter Tanks, not Thors... But they are so good they also counter Thors. hehLast edit: 2012-09-16 19:36:34 |
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| ULuMuGuLu September 16 2012 19:38. Posts 190 | Profile Blog # |
On September 16 2012 19:25 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
^It's rarely used against zerg either! :/
Of course it's rarely used against Zerg. Strike cannons is a spell that is used against single strong targets. Zerg mass units and play swarmy, so what u wanna use that strike cannon against? Against lings? against roahces? Not worth it. The only thing that would be worth a strike cannon against (in TvZ) is an Ultra ;-)
And its ok like this, because again, if we think about the description... Good against single string targets... it fits the whole protoss arsenal because the always have 2-3 Key units in a army that you can snipe that way. And without that key units you can crush the rest of the army most of the time (deathball syndrome). Strike cannons is a good spell vs colossy too to be honest because once you activated strike cannons, the unit can't move anymore until the spell ends.. 
It's a spell mostly desgined for TvPs. Still: Mech isn't viable (in TvP) in WoL, but the reason is NOT the thor, the reason is that mech is missing a key unit to be combined with (MIXING UNITS IS ALWAYS THE ANSWER). But hey, HotS is in the making so just wait and show patience! Warhound was there but it was so fckin strong that massing Warhounds was better then mixing it with any units, thats why they removed it because it counter pretty much everything. There will come a replacement or adjusted Warhound, thats for sure, until then... wait |
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| Fuchsteufelswild Australia. September 16 2012 19:41. Posts 835 | Profile # |
| EDIT: Oh stupid keyboard errors occured and the other one actually posted. Double post because of it; I'm editing the other one now. Last edit: 2012-09-16 19:42:29 |
| | Calm - FantaSy - ZerO - Bisu - Jaedong - NaDa - Nal_rA - EffOrt - LosirA - Grubby - Nerchio - Supernova - Squirtle - Leta - Golden |
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| ULuMuGuLu September 16 2012 19:41. Posts 190 | Profile Blog # |
On September 16 2012 19:32 Everlong wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 19:19 ULuMuGuLu wrote:
On September 16 2012 02:36 Fen1kz wrote:
I absolutely love new patch, and in my opinion most innovative thing is:
Phase Sheild: 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected.
thank you blizz!!</sarcasm>
but seriously guys - lets talk about ability that least used in WoL, ability that hurt own race mostly
Terrans, what do you prefer:
- Thor + 250mm and energy
- Just a Thor without energy?
also fun fact: thor with +3 deal more damage than 250mm ^_^
and why they remove carrier and leave this 250mm alone?
so my question (post it to blizz please with corrected english) - why this useless and unnesessary and bad designed ability ruin thor unit and why is it in HotS?
There's a reason why Thors have energy. I know you wanna look like a genius and say: Hey, there's a thing i discovered.. thor energy hurts the whole Matchup. In reality it's the opposite... -.- When SC2 was released a couple months later they tried to remove Thor energy. What happened next was that every Terran made mass Thors and Protoss couldn't answer that. Why? Because against Thors u have to make immortals, the funny thing is, Strike cannons own Immortals sooo hard (Yes, even with hardened Shields -> go to Mapeditor and try out) that there was absoluetely no answer for Protoss to counter them. Stalker die so fast to them, Archons are bad against them too... so whats left? Air UNits? Thors kill both, Phoenix AND Voids pretty fast, and until u get carriers you are dead 15 times already. So that's the reason they put in Thor Energy again. Because of mix of HTs (for feedback) + other Units like Immortals can counter it. I think Jinro... + Show Spoiler +his win against MC in early 2011, GSL Round of 8.. JInro went Mech and beat oGsMC with it. Everyone was thinking: Wow, what a genius. The truth is, this win was shortly after blizzard patched the game and removed THOR ENERGY. Jinro went mass Thor and crushed him because there was no answer for that. It wasn't viable in that way and was OP.. so jeah. After a lot of feedback from both: Community AND Pros AND Blizzard own oppinion, they romoved the change and put in THor energy again. To come back to what u said: No, your idea sucks to be honest. THis is really no offense but i don't know how long you play the game, maybe you just jumped in and thought, hey i'm smart, i got a pretty good idea. I guess the truth is you didn't went through the patching process of WoL and didn't witness some stuff, so maybe that's the reason you have that - nearly 2 year old AND bad idea.
EDIT:Oh, jeah... and another thing: The idea behind Strike Cannons in general is to counter Immortals like i said. Immortals are the direct counter to Thors, funny thing is: Strike cannons harcounter IMmortals.. that's the reason why strike cannons are in the game! Try in Mapeditor 1v1... Thor vs Immortal. Thor does 10 dmg per shot (thanks to Hardened Shields) and does virtually no DMG to the Immortal. Which is ok because the Immortal is supposed to counter the thor. Then try again 1v1 but use strike cannons this time and you'll see a BIG BIG difference and then you know why strike cannons are in the game because its an unbelieveable strong cast. The problem that you try to figure out is that a guy who MIXES units (immortal + HT), counter the guy who only makes thors... -.- u see your think process? It's not very smart to think that way... :-S In a good world the guy who mixes in HTs to feedback thors (so they cant make strike cannons on immortals) the terran would need to mix in GHosts, to EMP the HTs to prevent them from feedbacking the thors. I guess this pretty much nailed it, and i really tried to explain it in detail even though i was shaking my head whole time left and right because of what you said x_x
Sorry, but mentioning map editor 2 times in a single post as a proof of anything pretty much nailed it.
Jeah, sure. As if Map Editor was my proof for anything o.O are u serious or are you just a fckin troll!? I told him to try out Thor vs Immortal AND then Thor with Strike cannon vs Immortal... just to see the difference. But jeah, troll arround a bit more. Map Editor was no proof for me to say whats wrong about it. I explained whats wrong in a big wall of text ... but again... jeah... troll around a bit more.
EDIT:
Funny you deleted your post shortly after :-P i was fast enough to quote it already :-P :-P
Last edit: 2012-09-16 19:44:23 |
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| Everlong Czech Republic. September 16 2012 19:47. Posts 1368 | Profile # |
On September 16 2012 19:41 ULuMuGuLu wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 19:32 Everlong wrote:
On September 16 2012 19:19 ULuMuGuLu wrote:
On September 16 2012 02:36 Fen1kz wrote:
I absolutely love new patch, and in my opinion most innovative thing is:
Phase Sheild: 250mm Strike Cannons – Phase Shield removes the effect and prevents units from being affected.
thank you blizz!!</sarcasm>
but seriously guys - lets talk about ability that least used in WoL, ability that hurt own race mostly
Terrans, what do you prefer:
- Thor + 250mm and energy
- Just a Thor without energy?
also fun fact: thor with +3 deal more damage than 250mm ^_^
and why they remove carrier and leave this 250mm alone?
so my question (post it to blizz please with corrected english) - why this useless and unnesessary and bad designed ability ruin thor unit and why is it in HotS?
There's a reason why Thors have energy. I know you wanna look like a genius and say: Hey, there's a thing i discovered.. thor energy hurts the whole Matchup. In reality it's the opposite... -.- When SC2 was released a couple months later they tried to remove Thor energy. What happened next was that every Terran made mass Thors and Protoss couldn't answer that. Why? Because against Thors u have to make immortals, the funny thing is, Strike cannons own Immortals sooo hard (Yes, even with hardened Shields -> go to Mapeditor and try out) that there was absoluetely no answer for Protoss to counter them. Stalker die so fast to them, Archons are bad against them too... so whats left? Air UNits? Thors kill both, Phoenix AND Voids pretty fast, and until u get carriers you are dead 15 times already. So that's the reason they put in Thor Energy again. Because of mix of HTs (for feedback) + other Units like Immortals can counter it. I think Jinro... + Show Spoiler +his win against MC in early 2011, GSL Round of 8.. JInro went Mech and beat oGsMC with it. Everyone was thinking: Wow, what a genius. The truth is, this win was shortly after blizzard patched the game and removed THOR ENERGY. Jinro went mass Thor and crushed him because there was no answer for that. It wasn't viable in that way and was OP.. so jeah. After a lot of feedback from both: Community AND Pros AND Blizzard own oppinion, they romoved the change and put in THor energy again. To come back to what u said: No, your idea sucks to be honest. THis is really no offense but i don't know how long you play the game, maybe you just jumped in and thought, hey i'm smart, i got a pretty good idea. I guess the truth is you didn't went through the patching process of WoL and didn't witness some stuff, so maybe that's the reason you have that - nearly 2 year old AND bad idea.
EDIT:Oh, jeah... and another thing: The idea behind Strike Cannons in general is to counter Immortals like i said. Immortals are the direct counter to Thors, funny thing is: Strike cannons harcounter IMmortals.. that's the reason why strike cannons are in the game! Try in Mapeditor 1v1... Thor vs Immortal. Thor does 10 dmg per shot (thanks to Hardened Shields) and does virtually no DMG to the Immortal. Which is ok because the Immortal is supposed to counter the thor. Then try again 1v1 but use strike cannons this time and you'll see a BIG BIG difference and then you know why strike cannons are in the game because its an unbelieveable strong cast. The problem that you try to figure out is that a guy who MIXES units (immortal + HT), counter the guy who only makes thors... -.- u see your think process? It's not very smart to think that way... :-S In a good world the guy who mixes in HTs to feedback thors (so they cant make strike cannons on immortals) the terran would need to mix in GHosts, to EMP the HTs to prevent them from feedbacking the thors. I guess this pretty much nailed it, and i really tried to explain it in detail even though i was shaking my head whole time left and right because of what you said x_x
Sorry, but mentioning map editor 2 times in a single post as a proof of anything pretty much nailed it.
Jeah, sure. As if Map Editor was my proof for anything o.O are u serious or are you just a fckin troll!? I told him to try out Thor vs Immortal AND then Thor with Strike cannon vs Immortal... just to see the difference. But jeah, troll arround a bit more. Map Editor was no proof for me to say whats wrong about it. I explained whats wrong in a big wall of text ... but again... jeah... troll around a bit more. EDIT: Funny you deleted your post shortly after :-P i was fast enough to quote it already :-P :-P
No, I just edited it. I wrote there "edit" to make it clear, but yeah.. I guess that is not enough sometimes, lol... :D
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| Fjodorov September 16 2012 19:47. Posts 1984 | Profile # |
| Imo they should atleast reduce the thor max energy to 100 or something. |
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| y0su September 16 2012 19:48. Posts 1816 | Profile # |
On September 16 2012 19:17 Alex1Sun wrote:
Let's give 250mm cannons a range of 20 (or some other number larger then sieged tank range), no upgrade requirement and make them target buildings only (also balance damage, so that it's neither op nor up).
This makes it more beneficial for terrans to attack rather than turtle, since thors (with scans) will remove cannons / crawlers from afar and be left with little energy, so that feedback (and even neural parasite) is less useful vs them.
This change will also make thors more interesting in positional tank wars in TvT, since they would be able to destroy some buildings from behind the tank range.
It then becomes essential to position your thors appropriately, so that they can shoot opponents' buildings, map control becomes more important, etc. Isn't less plain turtling / plain all-in and more interesting positional wars what we want?
p.s. to make it even more skill oriented make 250mm cannons do little damage for little energy (still at huge range to buildings only), so that they can be used often, keep thor energy low and keep interesting positional aspect.
We already have tanks/tank range to target buildings... However, I like the idea of a range buff!
I've always thought 250mm cannons were garbage. The mix between the time it takes to "charge up" and the limited range makes the ability next to useless. I've also thought a range buff might be the best solution (for a small period of time I was doing a 12 min 2 base, 4 thor TvP push - and I discovered it was almost impossible to ever get in range to use) but it might make thors OP.... Now that the Tempest is getting +massive damage (as well as crazy range) it WOULD make sense to allow thors to have a long enough range to actually hit useful targets while still allowing it to be countered by the tempest. (Can also still be semi countered by BC/Broods.) |
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| Fragile51 Netherlands. September 16 2012 19:59. Posts 15599 | Profile # |
| Strike cannons are a pretty terrible ability. Either it's imba when thors don't have it energy based but cooldown based because they insta-kill their own hard counter or it makes them useless because of feedbacking full energy thors. I'd rather see the entire ability scrapped, to be honest. |
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