| Gofarman Canada. September 17 2012 06:18. Posts 514 | Profile # |
| Wow, never knew that about BW Carriers. Tyvm |
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| Talin Montenegro. September 17 2012 06:20. Posts 8259 | Profile Blog # |
I actually had no idea about the keeping Interceptors outside trick haha. All this time I thought it was just using the leash range on target switching, and you get full/instant burst only when target switching quickly.
Awesome video for educational purposes alone, doubt anything will come of it in SC2 though. |
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| neoghaleon55 United States. September 17 2012 06:26. Posts 6292 | Profile Blog # |
| wouldn't the use of Queue commands make carrier micro be really easy? |
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| Kaleidos Italy. September 17 2012 06:26. Posts 130 | Profile # |
| I would rate the target switching micro as #1 need for the carrier. |
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 NonY September 17 2012 06:28. Posts 6939 | Profile Blog # |
On September 17 2012 06:15 thedeadhaji wrote:
There's a bunch of differences between BW and SC2 Carrier micro details that you listed out, and I'm wondering in what order would you personally like to have "returned" to its former state?
Here are the ones I can recall:
1. Target switching in leash zone
2. Able to self select / target interceptors
3. Continuous deployment of interceptors while moving
Also, the movement pattern of the interceptors seem quite different between BW and SC2, which would affect the "death rate" and "dps rate" of interceptors I imagine.
Target switching in leash zone is the most important.
Being able to target individual interceptors is probably the lowest. That's really just meant to make carriers more difficult to use but it is kind of luck based and not the smoothest way to balance them. Enemies don't really want to do that either. A-move will always be the best method of killing interceptors (aside from possibly with abilities).
Continuous deployment of interceptors while moving I think is really really cool but is the easiest thing to classify as a buggy behavior. I hope we can get it though because it takes so much attention and skill to use effectively. It is very strong but becomes incredibly difficult to do as soon as your opponent forces action in two places at once. So the players are countering each other by doing increasingly difficult strategies and that is AWESOME. The protoss player got the carriers knowing they'll be sufficiently effective ONLY IF he can pull off this micro. The enemy's response is not to bang his head against this really strong micro but rather to split the protoss's attention, punishing him for having tunnel vision on his carriers. Someone is gonna make a mistake and miscalculate and that's how the game should be decided.
If the continuous deployment of interceptors ISN'T in the game, then interceptor healing is pretty much just a straight buff. There isn't really any tension if both things aren't in the game.
All these mechanics sort of tie in to each other. A lot of times the continuous deployment of interceptors isn't used for long stretches, but rather for very short stretches, like in a single battle when the carriers want to pull really far back for a moment and then go right back in. If they don't have continuous deployment of interceptors, they get significantly punished for leaving battles even for a split second. So in such a case, it's basically the same as target switching but with a very short retreat between targets.
Related note: If there isn't continuous deployment, then you are significantly punishing the carrier user for leaving leash range. And when that wasn't a mistake, but rather a "tactical retreat", then the carrier starts to feel like a shitty unit again. If the carrier was too strong, I wouldn't want to see it balanced that way because it's just making it a frustrating unit.Last edit: 2012-09-17 06:37:33 |
| | "Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ------ Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.' |
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| SpiZe Canada. September 17 2012 06:29. Posts 2306 | Profile # |
It's funny because just yesterday I was playing some BW with friends and I just went carriers and had so much fun microing them around, in sc2 it's just not possible to micro carrier the same way. They're just big chunk of burst damage and there is no terrain abuse or cool micro to do with them  |
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| oneill12 Romania. September 17 2012 06:31. Posts 885 | Profile # |
| i hope they give the carrier back its abilities |
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| Kommatiazo United States. September 17 2012 06:31. Posts 361 | Profile Blog # |
If you weren't already respected and loved, you would be now. This was one of the most quality posts I've ever seen. So good!
I for one, have always loved the carrier, and I was one of those fans who back in BW "didn't understand the mechanics of carrier micro, but could tell the difference between good carrier micro and bad carrier micro," but now since you posted this, I'm so much more educated in my carrier fanboy-ism. 
Thank you Tyler! Please listen to this man Blizzard, he knows what he's talking about. |
| | "You must enemy don't know, and very good micro" - Bosstoss #Wet4Ret |
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| DorF Sweden. September 17 2012 06:33. Posts 948 | Profile Blog # |
While we get the Bw carrier back in starcraft 2, let's get all the old Bw micro back, especially the Bw mutas :3
(or at least similair) |
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| neobowman Canada. September 17 2012 06:33. Posts 2862 | Profile Blog # |
| This thing needs to be spotlighted. |
| | Mapper on hiatus and the original creator of the Space Shark. Fan of StabbyStabby | |
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| N.geNuity United States. September 17 2012 06:37. Posts 3239 | Profile # |
| rofl I never knew you could box the interceptors after stop and the details of the deployment time. carriers OP. |
| | iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVER |
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| ShiroKaisen United States. September 17 2012 06:38. Posts 560 | Profile Blog # |
| This ABSOLUTELY needs to be spotlighted. Mods? |
| | Dame da na, zenzen dame da ze! |
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| imPermanenCe Netherlands. September 17 2012 06:43. Posts 572 | Profile # |
Wow, really nice! I didn't know about keeping the interceptors out so you can launch them immediately on the next target
Really no reason to not put this in :\ |
| | Micro at its best is like an elegant dance between two people trying to achieve a similar end. |
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| laguu Finland. September 17 2012 06:48. Posts 270 | Profile # |
| I would suggest you add some progamer vods or fpvods that demonstrate some good and bad carrier micro. |
| | Arguing with a fool proves there are two. |
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| Burns United States. September 17 2012 06:48. Posts 1639 | Profile Blog # |
Thank you Tyler that was an amazing blog post
These are the changes in star2 that made the game go stale for me. The new units all are so a clicky, the worst for me is the swarm host, its large and slow, has no synergy with the zerg army until late late game where everything is slow, and then there is no micro, it just spits out a ranged unit |
| | What do you mean you heard me during the night, these are quiet pants! | |
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| Raithed China. September 17 2012 06:48. Posts 7029 | Profile Blog # |
| Great video, I agree... carriers take forever to come out too, needs this. |
| | http://raith.freehostia.com |
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| wo1fwood United States. September 17 2012 06:49. Posts 2339 | Profile Blog # |
| such a subtle change for such a massive difference... a thousand times yes, bw carriers were the shit. |
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| Tamburlaine Canada. September 17 2012 06:53. Posts 280 | Profile # |
Thanks for the video, NonY.
We got the carrier back. Now we just need to get the carrier better. |
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| Holgerius Sweden. September 17 2012 07:04. Posts 16832 | Profile Blog # |
| Man, that video is the perfect example of why BW is such a superior game in general. Such insane depth and so much stuff to learn. |
| | I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence. |
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| Sephy90 United States. September 17 2012 07:04. Posts 1698 | Profile Blog # |
I knew you could have the actual carrier outside it's attack range while the interceptors kept attacking but I didn't know about the stop/move command that kept all the interceptors out and instant deployment when you ordered the carriers to attack... although before I did see interceptors that were out alongside carriers when you stop/moved them but didn't think anything of it..
It goes to show how complex and great the carrier is in BW and would hope to see this in SC2! |
| | "So I turned the lights off at night and practiced by myself" |
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