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/in
hey thrawn and kush!
hoping I will be town to get hapa's awesome advice!
definitely not sure at this point how much time I will have. My main problem with the last game was not being around for lynch and trying to squeeze in posts in the day. Probably won't be squeezing in posts in the mid of the day this time around.
For curiosity's sake Do you have an idea when the lynch time would be for this game?
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so now the real question is. Who has bets on marv's townies and who has bets on hapa's mafias?
Under the assumption that kush and I are town, I vote town
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just checkin in to make sure u got me in one this . And awww Jacob gonna miss your squirley notes.
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Lol. Kush already going at it.
Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add:
+ Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum.
You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time).
Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence.
@Kush
I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game.
The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town.
FOS Kush
@everyone
One more thing:
Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate.
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@Darthpunk
Do you have links to all your previous games?
I see validity in your points. However, I need to see how you've played before. You are coming off really strong really early.
and @Kush
Tunneling does not mean only looking at the people under pressure. It means that we should only post cases with substance at that point. Someone going off tangent on some stupid duck hunt with no reason and distracting the attention of the town is bad at that point. If you do feel suspicious of someone but don't have a good case, just keep it on word and save it for when evidence does come out.
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As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information.
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@darthpunk
You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation.
Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG".
Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come.
Anyhow. I see two others who have suspiciously posted.
@Boson
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote:On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP
Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker.
@Stutters
I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here.
@kush
What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment.
@Djoref
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk
Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me.
Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid.
Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk
Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia...
After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote:Hello everybody ! About meThis is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policyFrom the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in.Day PlanI don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote:@Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote:
Because the most active townie is tunneling me?
I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times.
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@darth
When did I say stop going after him? I said wait for him to respond.
You can be convinced he's scum, but you're making a huge deal out of it early in the game. multiple red texts with the word scum. Got your point.
I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum.
@z-boson
If you haven't realized yet, I played with SDM last game. I know where he stands with lurker policy. If you haven't noticed, darth doesn't like them either. Why? Cuz they usually go nowhere fast.
Why are you so focused on lurker discussion when there are other things going on?
Nice FOS btw. I make a case on you and you fail to respond to half of it.
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@Z-Boson
Let me include another post from sonic which happened closely after the one which you attacked.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 07:08 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. Encouraging newbie towns to post is more important than typing out the same things I've said about lurker policy in XXVI and XXVII yet again: If we don't have a good scum case (lurker or active) by late d1, we lynch the most suspicious lurker. We should obviously be looking to avoid that scenario by scum hunting. That's really all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned.
This looks like his view of lurking right?
Then why did you post your attack on him 2 hours after this post? Are you just scanning the thread looking for things that you can accuse people for instead of actually reading?
Now for your reasoning for the attack
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 14:26 Z-BosoN wrote:@debearHave you ever heard about instigating discussion? You know, getting people to talk? I don't like how you defended SDM. You stated your views on lurkers, so that means you must agree that this type of discussion has some validity:Show nested quote +-- snip -- Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. Yet, you don't address SDM's blatant "I don't give a crap about policy lynch discussion's" stance? Seems rather odd to me. ##FoS debears
How is your post instigating discussion with SDM? He said he would be afk with sleep and classes. He won't be here for a while, yet you attack him and that's your main reason, especially for a first post? That, combined with failing to read his post that came shortly after, means your either lying or not reading.
And the fact that you are twisting his statements is also concerning. He never said "I don't give a crap" about lurker policy. He said he hope it is over by the time he gets back. Lurker policy discussion is generally fruitless, that is why darthpunk FOS kush early on. Are you going to attack darthpunk also?
Now for your next post
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 15:36 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 14:43 debears wrote: @darth
When did I say stop going after him? I said wait for him to respond.
You can be convinced he's scum, but you're making a huge deal out of it early in the game. multiple red texts with the word scum. Got your point.
I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum.
@z-boson
If you haven't realized yet, I played with SDM last game. I know where he stands with lurker policy. If you haven't noticed, darth doesn't like them either. Why? Cuz they usually go nowhere fast.
Why are you so focused on lurker discussion when there are other things going on?
Nice FOS btw. I make a case on you and you fail to respond to half of it. I don't care who you've played with. You make it a point to say your view on lurkers. You defend him for absolutely no reason, when his views implicitly contradict yours. If you were townie, I wouldn't think this to be a priority for you. I am not focused on lurker discussion, I am focused on the inconsistency you've presented. The issue of "Lurker policy" is not what is at hand. The issue at hand is why you are bothering to defend him (and now kush) instead of letting them defend themselves. It feels extremely forced right now, as townies are supposedly scouring the thread for blood. That's why the FOS. Regarding your "case", it seems to me like the only think you've got going is my general usefulness. And I already said it in form of a question, but now I'll answer it more bluntly so you can't dismiss it: I am instigating discussion. Read all my posts and see if that's what I'm trying to accomplish.
Yet again. You failed to read. His views are similar to mine, as stated in his quoted post.
Townies are not supposed to be "scouring the thread for blood". That statement is way too harsh. You are supposed to be looking at motivations behind posts, making informed cases, and deciding who looks scummy. By the way you started out with attacking thrawn, it seems that you are looking through people's posts trying to find only mafia motivations behind their posting. It's a two sided coin. If you look at townie motivations, and there isn't one, then you have something.
Finally, instigating discussion does not mean making worthless posts with only questions and no analysis, posts calling out people for lurking way too early in the game, attacking people who said they would be afk early in d1, and FOS someone when you aren't reading the thread thoroughly. Overall, you are causing confusion by pointing you finger for bad reasons. That isn't helping us.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 23:30 Z-BosoN wrote: @Alsn
Reading your trade-off with DP and your cases against me, I find two things: a) You have a tendency to heavily misinterpret posts and intentions, AND use them as arguments. b) You say you like Logic, but you don't seem to read carefully enough. Logic with information is useless. I mean this, especially in the part where you said I was calling kush out along DP, which is clearly a lie.
For the love of God, if you are town, don't keep this up. I understand we are still in day one and we don't have much to go on, but still. The last thing I need is another austincc that will warp everything I say in a "scum would do this" way.
This post is funny, because you are doing the exact same thing
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@Djoref
On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk
For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis.
Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great
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@Omniscient
On September 29 2012 02:17 Omniscient4983 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote:@Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk
For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great So you're confirming him town?
No. I am trying to help a newbie get into the swing of things. Last game, there was a large portion of lurkers, and it destroyed the game atmosphere. If he gets help and posts more quality, we have a much better read on him.
@Z-Boson
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 02:25 Z-BosoN wrote:@AlsnI already answered that. You are bieng dense. @debearsI missed that second post, though it further strengthens my case against you. You do not find it odd that he dismisses lurker policy talk and then, explicitly tells us his views on lurkers, thus indulging in this talk? And yet you find that post as a defense for him? Show nested quote +Finally, instigating discussion does not mean making worthless posts with only questions and no analysis, posts calling out people for lurking way too early in the game, attacking people who said they would be afk early in d1, and FOS someone when you aren't reading the thread thoroughly. Overall, you are causing confusion by pointing you finger for bad reasons. That isn't helping us. Sorry, my scummy friend, but observe how my post drew you and Alsn out in discussion. I still eagerly await his answer, but it certainly was not worthless. You are bitching about a question I asked SDM. I didn't file a case on him, I didn't FoS him, I questioned him. I did NOT call him out for lurking. YOU fail to read, and now you are waaaaaaay too defensive about a question that didn't even concern you. Alsn presented the same defensiveness, but not on the same level as you and on a way that is much more townie-looking than yours. Also, the "irony" you've presented is without merit. I agree that the reasoning for my questioning of SDM is a bit far-fetched, but I absolutely did not use it as an argument as to why he is scummy. Don't get the facts distorted. The only FoS I have so far is on you.
Let me clarify the quote you put in my post. I realize now that I should've said who you did those against.
"Finally, instigating discussion does not mean making worthless posts with only questions and no analysis (your first 3 posts), posts calling out people for lurking way too early in the game (the post about stutters), attacking people who said they would be afk early in d1 (SDM) , and FOS someone when you aren't reading the thread thoroughly. (me) Overall, you are causing confusion by pointing you finger for bad reasons. That isn't helping us."
And I wouldn't call me criticizing you defensive. I'd call it offensive. If anything is defensive, it's your OMGUS-like FOS on me right after I make a case about you.
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lol kush....what's up with you today?
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@kush
Why the sudden no care attitude?
You come in to the game brimming with confidence from last game, citing your deathless streak yet again. However, no you have seemed to give up with so a small amount of pressure (from darth and sonic) when you have plenty of time to help us out.
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If you feel like this, then why did you post this?
+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote: First!!
whats up guys it's kush.
About me I have been told many times I have a "scummy meta." Not really fair since last game I did roll scum so I didn't really get a chance to show improvement in my town play. I'm working on it guys. This is my 4th newbie game so I'm experienced as possible to play in this game. Also I think rolling scum last game will help my reads greatly. I know how those fuckers think.
Everyone say how you feel about lurker policy. I take kind of a middle of the ground stance. I mean if you have like 3 lurkers obviously you shouldn't waste 3 nights killing them off 1 by 1. If I think someone is scummy than I vote for that person. If I don't have any good scumreads then I will be in favor of lynching a lurker. Usually what seems to happen is town can't decide so they bandwagon on some lurker at the last second. I'm not against this since it keeps pressure on possible scum. I don't like people to say oh we are definitely lynching a lurker d1, because then scum feels safe as long as they are somewhat active. My willingness to lynch a lurker decreases as the game progresses. For example I think lynching a lurker d3 is really bad.
Message to scum: I can smell you.
This has been your chance to show improvement, yet you wanted to give up? Also, you are one of the most experienced players, as you said. Then, why aren't you taking the reins in this situation and using your experience?
Finally,
+ Show Spoiler +On September 25 2012 12:24 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 07:37 thrawn2112 wrote: lol.... welcome kush. Is this your last newbie? yup honestly im afraid to start playing with the big boys How do you expect to play with the big boys with this pissy little shitfest you've been on? I don't buy it that someone so eager to prove their worth as a townie would suddenly give up in their fourth game. On September 29 2012 05:25 kushm4sta wrote: that post of when I say player and person is actually from when I was scum. that was.because.I put in extra effort to not make scum slips. this game I don't even give a fuck. I.think people misunderstand.the nature of scumslips. I'm surprised that people who have been scum before don't realise this. Think of the scumslips you've made.They aren't obvious like that. I made plenty last game.
So you don't think I was aggressive my second game? Read the post where drazzak foses me. I.flame quite bad there.if I remember.correctly.
People.critisize me for not scumhunting. Well I identified my top scum read and his scummy behavior. My time is not infinite though and people keep asking me questions I have to answer. Would you prefer I ignore questions? As a townie, the goal is to establish your innocence best you can. Should you only worry about not sounding like scum? No. But you should put some thought into your posts.
I just can't buy this bullshit. You are either
1) Mafia trying to pity your way out of being lynched. or 2) A little bitch
I see 1 more likely from having played with you. You put in a good game and I had a lot of fun. This is just ruining this game. I don't see you pulling this off as a town.
For that reason, combined with the aforementioned scumslips.
##Vote Kushm4sta
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ebwop....I apologize in advance for my comment on 2) mods....I just realized that that was stupid
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@kush
The ambiguous statement i made qbout you in the start of my vote post was addressed to your feeling of hoplessness despite your early enthusiasm
@k boson
You're association case is assuming way too much. Use ockhams razor. We can't assume modwarnings. That is ridiculous. Especially when using that reason to cherrypick his posts to create an association case
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On September 29 2012 11:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:36 debears wrote: @kush
The ambiguous statement i made qbout you in the start of my vote post was addressed to your feeling of hoplessness despite your early enthusiasm
@k boson
You're association case is assuming way too much. Use ockhams razor. We can't assume modwarnings. That is ridiculous. Especially when using that reason to cherrypick his posts to create an association case That only adds to the fact that I already have a strong scumread of you. Whatever his alignment, I'm pushing for you next.
How does that statement add to your scumread? Do you mind adding reasoning?
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And @kush
I am aware of the situation. I hope we can remain friends after my comments earlier. . However, i do have 2 suspects at this point. Fortunately, i have my sam adams to wash away any doubt i have going into the next couple days.
At this point, i see you condemned with no alternative. Please though next game follow through on your pre game enthusiam. You are better than this
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@darthpunk
Currently, you should know one of my suspects based on a heated discussion btw him and me. The other i am waiting for a few more posts to give him a fair opportunity. The second one is a wildcard. Tomorrow i will build a casebfor him when I'm at my computer and in a better ba situation to make a suitable case
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