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| AlternativeEgo Sweden. September 27 2012 06:57. Posts 7731 | Profile # | |
| | Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp |  |
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| chris5180 September 27 2012 07:00. Posts 190 | Profile # |
| yay they will be broadcasted :D |
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| Quakie Norway. September 27 2012 07:05. Posts 580 | Profile # |
Would like a reason - conspiracy:Don't want to get owned by elephants. |
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| vitruvia Canada. September 27 2012 07:52. Posts 173 | Profile # |
On September 26 2012 15:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 10:54 Mackus wrote:
I'm implying that they're too money orientated, they're miles behind ASUS and Dreamhack and think they can charge for this stuff while the other alternatives are better and free.
Not to mention the broadcasted games aren't even live, if TSL4 charged to watch there would be an absolute uproar but MLG are arrogant enough to think they're better.
They are better, they have better players, a relatively exclusive product and higher production values. So I've worked for all 3 of these tournaments you've listed, each on more than one occasion, the whole "MLG is miles behind thing" is pretty much BS. MLG blows all of those tournaments out of the water in terms of options. Dreamhack has a 720p free stream, ok that's nice, MLG has 4-6 streams, player PoV, instant-replay VoDs and a far superior streaming setup. If possible they need to get up to 60fps from 30, that's a nice experience, but since they do 1080p rather than Dreamhacks 720p they might be hard-pressed to pull that off. I hear all this talk of "better production" from people that don't know what production is. In my experience MLG has better production overall. Dreamhack has better venues and as such provides a superior live experience. It's hard to compare the Raleigh convention centre to the Ericsson Globe. MLG could definitely do with finding some more exciting venues, they're way behind on that, not even first in the US since IPL gets better venues for their gigs. Dreamhack and MLG both suffer from downtime issues, Dreamhack is currently ahead in that respect but it's not perfect, there are still plenty of crowd-shots and lots of music filler. Dreamhack gets to use copyright music, Sweden is wonderful and all that. MLG has analysis in the bag. Analysis desk plus the replay Analysis touch-screen is more professional and provides more information than the Dreamhack Analysis couch. MLG continues to get better players, Dreamhack doesn't get top-tier Koreans as often though makes up for it somewhat with European depth of talent. MLG production value in terms of audio quality tends to be superior and that's mostly because of how they do it. They keep the casters as far away from the PA as possible, minimizing the kind of nasty reverb we got in WCS EU. There tend to be less production fuckups as well, production coming through on the stream, non-functional mics, that stuff is way less common at MLG. Their "portable studio" setup is much more effective, not to mention looks significantly more professional. MLG equipment tends to be better too, I do rather dislike the gear Dreamhack uses, those bloody around the ear mics will slice ya flesh and they don't honestly sound that great either. Much prefer the Sennheiser gear MLG uses, it's more comfortable, more robust and better quality overall. There's a reason that stuff is used for sports-casts. Quite frankly, the gap, assuming there is one and that's a matter of opinion, is way smaller than people make it out to be. MLG needs to get it's act together in terms of filling down-time. More interviews, more action replays, more analysis. Ideally they could get 2 more booths and do the GSL style of setting up while another match is going on, to provide a constant stream of matches. 60fps would be nice but not essential, it's a luxury and one I'll happily give up if it means 1080p and less of the artifacting we see on the Dreamhack stream (which knowing those guys will probably be cleared up by next tournament, they're super smart). Both are great tournaments and yet I see Dreamhack constantly praised and MLG constantly shit on. MLG is trying to run a business entirely on the basis of their tournament content, they have a lot of paid staff, a lot of expensive equipment and many costs to deal with. Dreamhack is not just eSports, has many volunteers and a number of advantages due to their position as a "cultural" event. Both are awesome and I'm sick to death of one being praised (to the point of ignoring some of it's mistakes and faults) and the other being constantly shit on at every turn. The bias exists on both TL and Reddit, it's enormous and obvious and quite frankly needs to stop. It's destructive, it serves no practical purpose and if we were to lose either MLG or Dreamhack it'd be a huge blow to the scene as it stands. Both deserve support.
you shouldn't have wasted your time responding to him. Some people will never chance their stance and aggressions regardless of reasoning. *cough* re.. nvm
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| | what quote? |  |
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| Moonling United States. September 27 2012 08:00. Posts 986 | Profile Blog # |
On September 26 2012 18:23 Trizz wrote:
Jesus christ fuck PPV, I'm so sick and tired of these money hungry c****.
As if paid HD isn't enough.
I have read a bit of this thread and I see A LOT of Europeans either
A.) Saying they can't afford 10$
B.) Say the quality of the experience is not good enough (Compare to Dreamhack)
C.) Call MLG Greedy
Conclusion: Europeans are either poor, or really bias towards European events. |
| | 1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea. |  |
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| TheSir September 27 2012 08:12. Posts 1580 | Profile # |
On September 27 2012 06:29 Danzo wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 04:31 TheSir wrote:
On September 27 2012 04:19 Danzo wrote:
On September 27 2012 02:47 Canucklehead wrote:
I agree with TB. I always found MLG to be better than DH, production wise and entertainment wise. DH is also on at horrible times for me, something which europeans always complain about for MLG in live threads, but you rarely see the same from NA posters when euro tourneys happen while they sleep.
Always found DH to have poor competition too and remember the ones mana and thorzain won were some of the weakest competition I've seen in a major tournament ever. They get very few top and interesting koreans (besides MC) as well and just the ones on foreign teams. I've usually only watched DH towards the end, but saw some of valencia and that was a trainwreck day 1. No player ever shown, delays before games longer than what MLG has ever done. Was just a very poor show all around. I will always watch MLG championships, but DH is something I can live without.
That's an interesting point. Dreamhack doesn't have the strongest competition and MLG is miles ahead when it comes to the intensity of matches going on and more Koreans as well. Also I hate the typical "take notes mlg" I see on reddit as well. This does need to stop. I almost feel like it's regional thing as well that comes out as hating on an American business. I could be wrong but I get that vibe from just reading on most of the comments about MLG.
Not really a interesting point cause well, who's fault is it that the strongest competitors dont come to Dreamhack? You have to go to the teams and players themselves for that. Not Dreamhacks fault or problem. A regional thing? Probably, but i think its also a community thing where Dreamhack blows MLG out of the water. Not to mention you dont hear a lot of crap around Dreamhack while MLG keeps trying to get attention with the most dumb ideas.
I don't understand dreamhack "blows mlg out of the water". I'm just as entertained from DH as I am from MLG. Yes they have nice framerate on the stream but that's really it besides the quirky cam shots every once in awhile. And what do you mean MLG keeps trying to "get attention."? It's a bushiness, of course they want to keep promoting.
Promoting your business is something else then doing stupid things (locking players out of a tournament for example, that one was brilliant), and yes Dreamhack blows MLG out of the water. Free HQ streams, community streams, instant vods and they release replays almost directly after the tournaments. Almost all things MLG doesn't have or do and those are facts, not opinions. The only thing MLG has is they pay for players to come to the tournament which results in the same top players over and over who destroy foreigners.
Im not talking about who is more entertaining or what ever cause everyone has different tastes and you cant have a decent discussions on that.
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| emichaelnd86 United States. September 27 2012 08:31. Posts 20 | Profile # |
| Hope People realize we're better than this. Does anyone know if any LoL tourneys are ppv? Or are we being broken for our smaller community? Last edit: 2012-09-27 08:32:59 |
| | ㅈㅈ |  |
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| Wedge Canada. September 27 2012 08:48. Posts 515 | Profile # |
| Bah, was pretty excited about this too |
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| MoonPieMat United States. September 27 2012 09:22. Posts 52 | Profile # |
| Fuck yes, Axslav as a commentator. Always love hearing him. Can't wait to see the Online Qualifiers! |
| | "OBJECTION!" | |
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| Fjodorov September 27 2012 16:45. Posts 1903 | Profile # |
| I wonder if there will be an option to just pay for the replays and download them. Im being serious. If im going to watch replays i would much rather watch them by myself in sc2 where im able to observe freely and study builds and games in a much better way. |
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| Lizarb Denmark. September 27 2012 16:52. Posts 252 | Profile # |
On September 26 2012 15:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:If possible they need to get up to 60fps from 30, that's a nice experience, but since they do 1080p rather than Dreamhacks 720p they might be hard-pressed to pull that off.
I would rather have 720p in 60fps than 1080p in 30fps.
Its a bad idea to just focus on 1080p vs. 720p. Fps and bitrate has a much bigger influence on the quality of the steam compared to going form 720p to 1080p. Some tournaments also seems to tweak the color values of the game too much.
I get both mad and sad, when you see a tournament go into hype mode with "watch in full 1080p" and then you see this blocky crap because they had to choose a very low bitrate to be able to hit 1080p. For smooth streaming 720p is the way to go. IMHO.
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| | Only thing I know is that I know nothing. |
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| Kabutomaru Bulgaria. September 28 2012 08:02. Posts 58 | Profile # |
On September 27 2012 16:45 Fjodorov wrote:
I wonder if there will be an option to just pay for the replays and download them. Im being serious. If im going to watch replays i would much rather watch them by myself in sc2 where im able to observe freely and study builds and games in a much better way.
Well said  |
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| Dracolich70 Denmark. September 28 2012 09:34. Posts 687 | Profile # |
10 dollars might not be a lot, but I dislike the road this is taking. If people keep saying that 10 dollars is nothing for a HD stream, then before long we have it for most streams. MLG can do what they wish makes more business sense to them, but I will choose not to, but I think they should consider that bringing content to a bigger audience is better for the sport. If eSports hope to make any growth, then PPV is not the road, nor is people repeating that 10 dollars is not a lot, and happily pays for it.
Greed is what - in my eyes - ruined football(soccer)/boxing. |
| | Spark of Fire. Intricacies of the Complex. Fluidity of Liquid. Force of one Team. "We lack predictability". |  |
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| Dracolich70 Denmark. September 28 2012 10:27. Posts 687 | Profile # |
On September 27 2012 04:19 Danzo wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 02:47 Canucklehead wrote:
I agree with TB. I always found MLG to be better than DH, production wise and entertainment wise. DH is also on at horrible times for me, something which europeans always complain about for MLG in live threads, but you rarely see the same from NA posters when euro tourneys happen while they sleep.
Always found DH to have poor competition too and remember the ones mana and thorzain won were some of the weakest competition I've seen in a major tournament ever. They get very few top and interesting koreans (besides MC) as well and just the ones on foreign teams. I've usually only watched DH towards the end, but saw some of valencia and that was a trainwreck day 1. No player ever shown, delays before games longer than what MLG has ever done. Was just a very poor show all around. I will always watch MLG championships, but DH is something I can live without.
That's an interesting point. Dreamhack doesn't have the strongest competition and MLG is miles ahead when it comes to the intensity of matches going on and more Koreans as well. Also I hate the typical "take notes mlg" I see on reddit as well. This does need to stop. I almost feel like it's regional thing as well that comes out as hating on an American business. I could be wrong but I get that vibe from just reading on most of the comments about MLG.
For example DH didn't allow LoL, because they do not see it as a competitive eSport, and refused any money Riot offered, because everything is about eSport, and not getting rich. MLG uses a US model, where making money and providing high production value as money can buy, is their forte.
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| | Spark of Fire. Intricacies of the Complex. Fluidity of Liquid. Force of one Team. "We lack predictability". | |
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| Freezd United States. September 28 2012 14:31. Posts 135 | Profile Blog # |
| We should boycott PPV events. It never helps bring in new viewers at all and limits certain people from being able to watch sc2 content. |
| | "I can't help it if I seem homophobic when the only gay people I know have pink highlights, wear hundreds of colorful bracelets and live at the local arcade playing DDR." - Youngminii |  |
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| DemonCow United States. September 29 2012 05:26. Posts 9 | Profile # |
On September 28 2012 14:31 Freezd wrote:
We should boycott PPV events. It never helps bring in new viewers at all and limits certain people from being able to watch sc2 content.
This is my point of view as well. If every SC2 event was PPV esports wouldn't last very long, because it's not really that big and somebody who has never been apart of esports isn't going to pay to figure out what it is or if its worth their time. |
| | Moo | |
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| zcki Finland. September 29 2012 06:54. Posts 19 | Profile # |
I really don't get it why this has to be PPV, but I guess it's how things are run in US, people are used to paying for content. I won't be paying for this, not because I can't afford it, but because I simply don't support having to pay for a stream, especially the one I can't preview. I did watch a russian stream of it yesterday and I have to admit, casted replays don't seem to be worth it, especially since players don't really seem to be able to manage their forces due to lag issues. Also they seemed to lose a replay while casting Naniwa v Jaedong jumping into next match when it was 1-1.
What made me sad about this "MvP" tournament is actually the result page. Who has played against whom and detailed map wins view is probably the most intresting part I find in the results, especially in the events I haven't been able to follow. It's like this tournament is being held in dark ages, you have to be there to watch and you only get a small % of it and even after that there's no recaps of events that have taken place.
TotalBiscuit wrote on how much content MLG actually provides during the events, but the issue is it's happening simultaneously and people are just following one stream at a time of their favorite players/casters. It's the same as with this tournament, even though there's 100 hours of content I don't think I'll be able to see more then 5 hours of it, sure ten bucks isn't much but I'd rather tip a waitress with 20e then pay for something I believe should be free.
Another thing that I couldn't ignore was how eager TotalBiscuit was to defend MLG, mentioning gear and headsets. I don't think a headset is any real issue at all, nothing a quick feedback wouldn't fix. Touchscreen analysis hasn't really brought anything new except for "You need to be this tall to cast" screencap, it looks extremely awkward every time they have to use it, and is nothing more then a commercial for the company producing the touchscreens. There's really no need to draw actual lines on a replay. I don't know why that post was so enfuriating but it really felt like it could've been summarized in three words, "pay up guys". Audience was mentioned too, not having people sit in 50 rows of foldable chairs does bring quite a bit more enthusiasm to the crowd as seen in most offline/live events.
Edit: eh, apparently the games are bo2.. WHYLast edit: 2012-09-29 08:08:58 |
| | Wisdom is a quality that keeps you from situations where you need it. |
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| Sherlocks Mind United States. September 29 2012 08:45. Posts 18 | Profile # |
| Do you guys think Dreamhack, IPL, and other leagues are looking at MLG's PPV as the model of the future? Seriously? If we're being perfectly honest here, all MLG is doing is showing people what not to do. In retrospect, we WILL thank them. Whether you want to or not. |
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| Ambidexter United States. September 29 2012 11:34. Posts 12 | Profile # |
On September 26 2012 07:12 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 07:10 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
On September 26 2012 07:05 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
Again with the Pay Per View. omfg.... Really I hope no one buys it.
But look at the player list! It's so tempting
Don't, we need to teach them fuckers a lil lesson. IDK why they're doing it again if last time they lost too many views. Fucking don't learn lessons.
........and this is why we cannot have nice things. I have a dream that someday our community grows up to understand that production costs money. |
| | Starcraft is frustration mixed with self-doubt, a game populated by the most masochistic bunch of gamers who all collectively wallow in a feeling of self-disgust at how horrible they are, even if they are decent. |  |
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| Plansix United States. September 29 2012 12:40. Posts 5372 | Profile Blog # |
On September 29 2012 11:34 Ambidexter wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 26 2012 07:12 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
On September 26 2012 07:10 laLAlA[uC] wrote:
On September 26 2012 07:05 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
Again with the Pay Per View. omfg.... Really I hope no one buys it.
But look at the player list! It's so tempting
Don't, we need to teach them fuckers a lil lesson. IDK why they're doing it again if last time they lost too many views. Fucking don't learn lessons.
........and this is why we cannot have nice things. I have a dream that someday our community grows up to understand that production costs money.
Unlikely, but by then we should have a new community that does. I guess everything could be free like other sports on cable tv.....wait a minute, that is what that "cable bill" has been. I've been paying for real sports all along.
NFL, NHL, MLB and FiFA are all greedy bastards. |
| | Nony on PvT: "It's not imbalanced, the protoss wins and then there is a five minute death animation for the Terran" | |
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