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| shalafi October 09 2012 07:45. Posts 328 | Profile # |
On October 09 2012 07:23 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:02 Numy wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:08 TheYango wrote:
Manta + S&Y is cost-ineffective because Manta +MS/AS doesn't stack with that of a second Yasha or S&Y. They are treated as 0-radius instances of Endurance Aura and don't stack with each other.
Thanks. I knew the +MS, Didn't realize the AS didn't stack. In that case I would probably just replace the manta with a bkb and stick to the sny.
I don't think there's ever a world where you would replace a manta for bkb instead of sny for bkb. I guess you could pull an Era and have both while not having a bkb. Real good carry strat that.
It's not very likely, I'll admit that. SnY gives -30% move and attackspeed on top of Skadi's -30% move and -25% attackspeed. Regardless I'm thinking that the endgame inventory I gave is pretty unrealistic, would need a BKB and possibly an MKB vs some lineups. It's pretty rare for a game to get to that amount of farm though. I guess the question is more if a person goes through with making an SnY on a hero like SF, what next? Make a manta? Then sell the sange? Or is it more of a ... if they've made an SnY the game should be over before they need to make a decision like that. Era has always made some hilariously bad item choices (in hon too). If you're against a team with no disables then there's no need for a bkb... granted I have no idea how any team can have ZERO disables. Like I can't even think of a composition that has no disables. There are lineups that go through BKB (Beastmaster, Sniper's stun, SB's bash) but I can't think of any lineup that a BKB would be useless against. Any lineup is going to eventually get Eul's and Sheeps anyways though.
Against a team that relies on immunity-piercing disables (beastmaster, enigma, void, doom[even the damage goes through], axe...) BKB isn't that useful. An example lineup would be enigma hard solo, void+shadow demon safe, beastmaster mid, chen jungle. Against that specific lineup BKB feels very weak, but there are many examples where BKB is just okay-ish and other items are preferable.
Last edit: 2012-10-09 07:46:55 |
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| aintz Canada. October 09 2012 11:35. Posts 2906 | Profile # |
| good players dont build sny, despite how cheap it is now. |
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| Darkren Canada. October 09 2012 11:50. Posts 705 | Profile Blog # |
On October 09 2012 11:35 aintz wrote:
good players dont build sny, despite how cheap it is now.
That is because we must start the revolution. |
| | "Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB |
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| LAN-f34r New Zealand. October 09 2012 19:57. Posts 1057 | Profile # |
It was utterly terrible pile of inefficient stats, with the only excuse to make it is that you need the components for halberd+manta but don't want either at this moment. 200 gold isn't enough to make it anywhere near efficient/good. Whether it is worth buying at all in some situations...
What hero uses the agi, MS, and slow (str, IAS, and damage also, but they are less wierd)? It is a very odd combination of stats. The slow is also quite unreliable, meaning that heroes that can stick at all to a hero will find better items than SnY, such as CK. Many of the heroes that can use it are bad anyway (ursa, razor, and sniper could use the MS and slow quite well, and are agi so benefit more from agi, but are quite bad heroes). |
| | The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though). | |
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| TRAP[yoo] Hungary. October 09 2012 20:10. Posts 1937 | Profile # |
On October 09 2012 11:35 aintz wrote:
good players dont build sny, despite how cheap it is now.
when mith trust ran DK as their carry he went for sny first a few games in a row. it worked out pretty good for them |
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| rob.au October 09 2012 21:29. Posts 369 | Profile # |
| What does sny stack with? Might be an ok luxury item on bounty hunter and riki Last edit: 2012-10-09 21:30:13 |
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| SKC Brazil. October 09 2012 21:43. Posts 3277 | Profile # |
On October 09 2012 21:29 rob.au wrote:
What does sny stack with? Might be an ok luxury item on bounty hunter and riki
I think it stacks with everything now. Didnt IceFrog change it so maim isn't an orb anymore? The issue with S&Y as a luxury item is that it is suposed to be a early item. One of it's advantages is that it is fairly easy to build, so it's something you get as your first big item. The issue is that there are better first big items.Last edit: 2012-10-09 21:45:46 |
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| Alex) Scotland. October 09 2012 21:51. Posts 227 | Profile Blog # |
Only time were I might go SnY is if I was going for manta got the yasha but then my team started dying really badly and I am getting no farm at all. Alot easyer to build the sanga since its only 1k club 450 belt compared to the 2.1k ultimate orb, hard to get that full 2.1k if your team is losing hardcore. Since your team is losing badly and your a carry am guessing since you got a yasha the sanga HP is always really good for team fights.
Later on if your team starts pulling the game back you can always dismantle it and build a manta or heavens halbred.
Thats what I see SnY is just a really cheap stat item for carrys having a hard time and if the game gets alot easier as the game goes on you can dismantle it into another item |
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| aintz Canada. October 09 2012 23:29. Posts 2906 | Profile # |
On October 09 2012 21:51 Alex) wrote:
Only time were I might go SnY is if I was going for manta got the yasha but then my team started dying really badly and I am getting no farm at all. Alot easyer to build the sanga since its only 1k club 450 belt compared to the 2.1k ultimate orb, hard to get that full 2.1k if your team is losing hardcore. Since your team is losing badly and your a carry am guessing since you got a yasha the sanga HP is always really good for team fights.
Later on if your team starts pulling the game back you can always dismantle it and build a manta or heavens halbred.
Thats what I see SnY is just a really cheap stat item for carrys having a hard time and if the game gets alot easier as the game goes on you can dismantle it into another item
u get vanguard if ur team is failing and you need to be in fights. much more effective. |
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| Alex) Scotland. October 10 2012 02:27. Posts 227 | Profile Blog # |
On October 09 2012 23:29 aintz wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 21:51 Alex) wrote:
Only time were I might go SnY is if I was going for manta got the yasha but then my team started dying really badly and I am getting no farm at all. Alot easyer to build the sanga since its only 1k club 450 belt compared to the 2.1k ultimate orb, hard to get that full 2.1k if your team is losing hardcore. Since your team is losing badly and your a carry am guessing since you got a yasha the sanga HP is always really good for team fights.
Later on if your team starts pulling the game back you can always dismantle it and build a manta or heavens halbred.
Thats what I see SnY is just a really cheap stat item for carrys having a hard time and if the game gets alot easier as the game goes on you can dismantle it into another item
u get vanguard if ur team is failing and you need to be in fights. much more effective.
Yeah I do that most the time what I said was a rare example if I ever got SnY "it was because" blaa blaa what I last said :D |
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 Implenia Austria. October 10 2012 17:47. Posts 1972 | Profile # |
| So before the next patch is coming out tonight, overall thoughts with 6.75? Everyone happy? |
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| superstartran United States. October 10 2012 20:08. Posts 1307 | Profile # |
On October 09 2012 07:45 shalafi wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:02 Numy wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:08 TheYango wrote:
Manta + S&Y is cost-ineffective because Manta +MS/AS doesn't stack with that of a second Yasha or S&Y. They are treated as 0-radius instances of Endurance Aura and don't stack with each other.
Thanks. I knew the +MS, Didn't realize the AS didn't stack. In that case I would probably just replace the manta with a bkb and stick to the sny.
I don't think there's ever a world where you would replace a manta for bkb instead of sny for bkb. I guess you could pull an Era and have both while not having a bkb. Real good carry strat that.
It's not very likely, I'll admit that. SnY gives -30% move and attackspeed on top of Skadi's -30% move and -25% attackspeed. Regardless I'm thinking that the endgame inventory I gave is pretty unrealistic, would need a BKB and possibly an MKB vs some lineups. It's pretty rare for a game to get to that amount of farm though. I guess the question is more if a person goes through with making an SnY on a hero like SF, what next? Make a manta? Then sell the sange? Or is it more of a ... if they've made an SnY the game should be over before they need to make a decision like that. Era has always made some hilariously bad item choices (in hon too). If you're against a team with no disables then there's no need for a bkb... granted I have no idea how any team can have ZERO disables. Like I can't even think of a composition that has no disables. There are lineups that go through BKB (Beastmaster, Sniper's stun, SB's bash) but I can't think of any lineup that a BKB would be useless against. Any lineup is going to eventually get Eul's and Sheeps anyways though.
Against a team that relies on immunity-piercing disables (beastmaster, enigma, void, doom[even the damage goes through], axe...) BKB isn't that useful. An example lineup would be enigma hard solo, void+shadow demon safe, beastmaster mid, chen jungle. Against that specific lineup BKB feels very weak, but there are many examples where BKB is just okay-ish and other items are preferable.
Against non-idiotic players (read, most people in VH mm) BKB is necessary on a truckload of heroes. |
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| chaosfreak11 Singapore. October 10 2012 21:59. Posts 234 | Profile # |
| SnY should never be gotten if you are a tryhard. |
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| Oktyabr Singapore. October 10 2012 22:31. Posts 955 | Profile # |
On October 09 2012 07:45 shalafi wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:02 Numy wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:08 TheYango wrote:
Manta + S&Y is cost-ineffective because Manta +MS/AS doesn't stack with that of a second Yasha or S&Y. They are treated as 0-radius instances of Endurance Aura and don't stack with each other.
Thanks. I knew the +MS, Didn't realize the AS didn't stack. In that case I would probably just replace the manta with a bkb and stick to the sny.
I don't think there's ever a world where you would replace a manta for bkb instead of sny for bkb. I guess you could pull an Era and have both while not having a bkb. Real good carry strat that.
It's not very likely, I'll admit that. SnY gives -30% move and attackspeed on top of Skadi's -30% move and -25% attackspeed. Regardless I'm thinking that the endgame inventory I gave is pretty unrealistic, would need a BKB and possibly an MKB vs some lineups. It's pretty rare for a game to get to that amount of farm though. I guess the question is more if a person goes through with making an SnY on a hero like SF, what next? Make a manta? Then sell the sange? Or is it more of a ... if they've made an SnY the game should be over before they need to make a decision like that. Era has always made some hilariously bad item choices (in hon too). If you're against a team with no disables then there's no need for a bkb... granted I have no idea how any team can have ZERO disables. Like I can't even think of a composition that has no disables. There are lineups that go through BKB (Beastmaster, Sniper's stun, SB's bash) but I can't think of any lineup that a BKB would be useless against. Any lineup is going to eventually get Eul's and Sheeps anyways though.
Against a team that relies on immunity-piercing disables (beastmaster, enigma, void, doom[even the damage goes through], axe...) BKB isn't that useful. An example lineup would be enigma hard solo, void+shadow demon safe, beastmaster mid, chen jungle. Against that specific lineup BKB feels very weak, but there are many examples where BKB is just okay-ish and other items are preferable.
Doom's damage does not go through BKB, but the silence applies.
BKB would still be necessary as a hard carry against that lineup just for SD alone. You need maximum dps time possible by avoiding disruption, and you don't want to take amplified damage from soulcatcher. |
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| gaymon Germany. October 11 2012 00:22. Posts 369 | Profile # |
On October 10 2012 22:31 Oktyabr wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:45 shalafi wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:02 Numy wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:08 TheYango wrote:
Manta + S&Y is cost-ineffective because Manta +MS/AS doesn't stack with that of a second Yasha or S&Y. They are treated as 0-radius instances of Endurance Aura and don't stack with each other.
Thanks. I knew the +MS, Didn't realize the AS didn't stack. In that case I would probably just replace the manta with a bkb and stick to the sny.
I don't think there's ever a world where you would replace a manta for bkb instead of sny for bkb. I guess you could pull an Era and have both while not having a bkb. Real good carry strat that.
It's not very likely, I'll admit that. SnY gives -30% move and attackspeed on top of Skadi's -30% move and -25% attackspeed. Regardless I'm thinking that the endgame inventory I gave is pretty unrealistic, would need a BKB and possibly an MKB vs some lineups. It's pretty rare for a game to get to that amount of farm though. I guess the question is more if a person goes through with making an SnY on a hero like SF, what next? Make a manta? Then sell the sange? Or is it more of a ... if they've made an SnY the game should be over before they need to make a decision like that. Era has always made some hilariously bad item choices (in hon too). If you're against a team with no disables then there's no need for a bkb... granted I have no idea how any team can have ZERO disables. Like I can't even think of a composition that has no disables. There are lineups that go through BKB (Beastmaster, Sniper's stun, SB's bash) but I can't think of any lineup that a BKB would be useless against. Any lineup is going to eventually get Eul's and Sheeps anyways though.
Against a team that relies on immunity-piercing disables (beastmaster, enigma, void, doom[even the damage goes through], axe...) BKB isn't that useful. An example lineup would be enigma hard solo, void+shadow demon safe, beastmaster mid, chen jungle. Against that specific lineup BKB feels very weak, but there are many examples where BKB is just okay-ish and other items are preferable.
Doom's damage does not go through BKB, but the silence applies. BKB would still be necessary as a hard carry against that lineup just for SD alone. You need maximum dps time possible by avoiding disruption, and you don't want to take amplified damage from soulcatcher.
Doom damage goes through BKB because its universal damage (like midnight pulse or march of the machines)
source:dotawiki |
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| Oktyabr Singapore. October 11 2012 00:55. Posts 955 | Profile # |
On October 11 2012 00:22 gaymon wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 22:31 Oktyabr wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:45 shalafi wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 07:02 Numy wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:23 Nevuk wrote:
On October 09 2012 06:08 TheYango wrote:
Manta + S&Y is cost-ineffective because Manta +MS/AS doesn't stack with that of a second Yasha or S&Y. They are treated as 0-radius instances of Endurance Aura and don't stack with each other.
Thanks. I knew the +MS, Didn't realize the AS didn't stack. In that case I would probably just replace the manta with a bkb and stick to the sny.
I don't think there's ever a world where you would replace a manta for bkb instead of sny for bkb. I guess you could pull an Era and have both while not having a bkb. Real good carry strat that.
It's not very likely, I'll admit that. SnY gives -30% move and attackspeed on top of Skadi's -30% move and -25% attackspeed. Regardless I'm thinking that the endgame inventory I gave is pretty unrealistic, would need a BKB and possibly an MKB vs some lineups. It's pretty rare for a game to get to that amount of farm though. I guess the question is more if a person goes through with making an SnY on a hero like SF, what next? Make a manta? Then sell the sange? Or is it more of a ... if they've made an SnY the game should be over before they need to make a decision like that. Era has always made some hilariously bad item choices (in hon too). If you're against a team with no disables then there's no need for a bkb... granted I have no idea how any team can have ZERO disables. Like I can't even think of a composition that has no disables. There are lineups that go through BKB (Beastmaster, Sniper's stun, SB's bash) but I can't think of any lineup that a BKB would be useless against. Any lineup is going to eventually get Eul's and Sheeps anyways though.
Against a team that relies on immunity-piercing disables (beastmaster, enigma, void, doom[even the damage goes through], axe...) BKB isn't that useful. An example lineup would be enigma hard solo, void+shadow demon safe, beastmaster mid, chen jungle. Against that specific lineup BKB feels very weak, but there are many examples where BKB is just okay-ish and other items are preferable.
Doom's damage does not go through BKB, but the silence applies. BKB would still be necessary as a hard carry against that lineup just for SD alone. You need maximum dps time possible by avoiding disruption, and you don't want to take amplified damage from soulcatcher.
Doom damage goes through BKB because its universal damage (like midnight pulse or march of the machines) source:dotawiki
Then I stand corrected. Even then, turning BKB on in time still stops others from chaining stuns on to you. |
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| Prime`Rib United States. October 11 2012 09:02. Posts 484 | Profile # |
| Just as I predicted, Jakiro has been picked frequently in competitive games. |
| | ... funerals are insane, the chicks are so horny, its not even fair, its like fishing with dynamite ... |
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