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| glzElectromaster Japan. October 06 2012 13:30. Posts 1426 | Profile Blog # |
On October 06 2012 09:22 CubEdIn wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:55 glzElectromaster wrote:
On October 06 2012 03:45 CubEdIn wrote:
On October 06 2012 03:04 Mackus wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:56 CubEdIn wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:52 Whatson wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:49 Kabras wrote:
On October 06 2012 00:56 Bumblebee wrote:
On October 06 2012 00:54 Thruth wrote:
On October 06 2012 00:52 Bumblebee wrote:
[quote]
Are you serious? His actions put people in jail in a lot of countries. Luckily it got stopped before it became big or very very serious.
Can sb tell me what is he talking about?
DeathAngel and VeraLynn cheated with their identities with streaming and coaching. DeathAngel played on her stream without webcam saying he was her and with that gained a lot of viewers being a good-gamer girl, made money off of that and got recognized with coaching and made money off of that too. It luckily got stopped very fast.
Not to sound like a fanboy but i don't see this being such a big deal. I thought he cheated in a match, like Spades did or some shit. So he posed as as a girl on her stream? ROFL, the drama lovers on TL really put reddit to shame. Jesus, will you people loosen up a little? IdrA, Orb, Spades, Destiny and probably many others did a lot more seriously offensive crap and never had any REAL problems. On the contrary, idra and destiny got 90% of their fans only because of retarded drama. And even if he gets sued (lmao) i don't see any court taking this shit seriously, unless maybe the stream owner is the one that sues him. Have to say i'm really disappointed in TL, so much useless drama over nothing. Yea, nothing! Fuckin grow up already.
Illegally scamming money is kind of serious mr. fanboy...
I agree, but it was actually veralynn who scammed for money. And you can't count the invite tournaments as "scamming" since it wasn't an all-girl tournament or something like that. He took out seriously good players to win said money so to me, it sounds fair. The fact that VeraLynn actually decided to piggy-back and charge for coaching is pretty scummy, I totally agree with penalties for that, but I'm not sure that DA had any part of that. Either way, throwing words like Jail and Fraud around is silly. This isn't a legalized activity, I doubt Idra or whoever else does coaching pays taxes for it, so please, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay? 
No but if you don't apply for self-employment you don't receive a pension. Money doesn't come free, stop talking about what you don't know.
I'm sorry what? Stop talking about what you don't know? I've been self-employed for 7 years, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. I was NOT talking about being an esports player, and declaring those money, I'm talking about getting 20eur on paypal or whatever verilynn got (I think it was what, 4-5 payments of 20-ish eur?). That is clearly undeclared money that you pay no tax for. Maybe "TRUE" coaches, that actually spend a lot of hours/day doing it and have no other source of income DO declare this type of income, but let's be honest, overall, if 10% do pay taxes for coaching I'd be surprised. And I'm sorry you think I'm taking his side, I really am not. But you're ACTUALLY talking about JAIL, are you serious? For someone sending you 20eur for teaching him? And she did teach them, it's practically THEIR fault for believing she was actually good. YES, it is fraud, but really? JAIL? Are you serious? Again, I'm not condoning anything, I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying you MIGHT be overreacting. And even if he did win money he shouldn't have, it really has very little to do with DreamHack since it wasn't really cheating or anything game-related. He won his matches fair and square, no matter what ID he was using. The coaching part = very unfair, I agree, but the games were real and he won them based on his own skill, nothing else, so why be denied access to DreamHack? Because you're jealous you can't get to that level? Please.
Hm. So apparently it's fair and square if I have Steve Jobs participate in a high school business tournament for me, as long as he did it himself without cheating? I think you're getting something wrong there. I don't know too much about how tournament organizers think or how EU law works or anything, but it's gonna be hard to root for him, especially after that terrible, terrible reasoning he posted on the thread. Kind of why I think we need a international governing body, like how it works with track and field, swimming, etc.
So you are honestly saying that the skill difference between DeathAngel and someone like.. Sjow is the same as the one between Steve jobs and kids in school? Over-dramatizing much? Also, why was Sjow invited, Veralynn invited and DeathAngel was not? Because he was simply not as popular, it wasn't because he was in a totally different league. And you are saying that DeathAngel is guilty of Identity Fraud, yet he is not the one who charged for coaching (as far as I know, please disregard if there is evidence to the contrary). So technically, DeathAngel is only guilty of participating in tournaments under someone else's name. Not taking money from anyone (again, as far as I've seen, there's no evidence that sustains that). And you are honestly saying that playing under a different name is basically grounds for jail time? Ridiculous! Get him banned from DreamHack? Under what basis, that he played under a different nick? I'm sure no other pro-gamers do that. Or it's fine as long as nobody gets caught. You want to convince me, it's easy, tell me what DeathAngel did, related to the actual game, that would warrant him being banned from DreamHack. Spoofing? That's it? As long as there's no evidence that he actually got money from it, then he's fine to play. If he did make money off it, then it's up to the hosts at DH, no?
Calm down sir. I was talking about female tournaments with that analogy.
And I clearly said that I don't know anything about EU laws or what DH officials think. I didn't say anything about having him banned or that he should be jailed. All I said was that its just hard to root for him in the competition.
Quite honestly, I've been supportive of him since his attempt at Code A where he got to the finals. It was a little disappointing to find out that he was involved in such a fraud, and his response to it. Of course Veralynn was the mastermind, but DeathAngel knew what he was doing, and it's obviously against sportsmanship. It's not just playing under a "different ID", playing in a female-only tournament for her is obviously violating the tournament rules.
But again, I don't really know how much consequence he should get. That's why I said in the earlier post that we need a international governing body that can straighten and determine those things out without us having to quarrel and bitch over it.
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| | RIP Kt. Violet | In solitude, where we are least alone | Keen・MKP・Mvp・Maru・Taeja・ByuN | Jaedong・FBH・JangBi | Prime・Samsung KHAN Fighting! |  |
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| imJealous United States. October 06 2012 13:34. Posts 761 | Profile # |
On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote:
DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Well you see they had originally invited Veralynn... |
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| Mackus England. October 06 2012 13:54. Posts 1609 | Profile # |
On October 06 2012 13:30 glzElectromaster wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 09:22 CubEdIn wrote:
On October 06 2012 04:55 glzElectromaster wrote:
On October 06 2012 03:45 CubEdIn wrote:
On October 06 2012 03:04 Mackus wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:56 CubEdIn wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:52 Whatson wrote:
On October 06 2012 02:49 Kabras wrote:
On October 06 2012 00:56 Bumblebee wrote:
On October 06 2012 00:54 Thruth wrote:
[quote]
Can sb tell me what is he talking about?
DeathAngel and VeraLynn cheated with their identities with streaming and coaching. DeathAngel played on her stream without webcam saying he was her and with that gained a lot of viewers being a good-gamer girl, made money off of that and got recognized with coaching and made money off of that too. It luckily got stopped very fast.
Not to sound like a fanboy but i don't see this being such a big deal. I thought he cheated in a match, like Spades did or some shit. So he posed as as a girl on her stream? ROFL, the drama lovers on TL really put reddit to shame. Jesus, will you people loosen up a little? IdrA, Orb, Spades, Destiny and probably many others did a lot more seriously offensive crap and never had any REAL problems. On the contrary, idra and destiny got 90% of their fans only because of retarded drama. And even if he gets sued (lmao) i don't see any court taking this shit seriously, unless maybe the stream owner is the one that sues him. Have to say i'm really disappointed in TL, so much useless drama over nothing. Yea, nothing! Fuckin grow up already.
Illegally scamming money is kind of serious mr. fanboy...
I agree, but it was actually veralynn who scammed for money. And you can't count the invite tournaments as "scamming" since it wasn't an all-girl tournament or something like that. He took out seriously good players to win said money so to me, it sounds fair. The fact that VeraLynn actually decided to piggy-back and charge for coaching is pretty scummy, I totally agree with penalties for that, but I'm not sure that DA had any part of that. Either way, throwing words like Jail and Fraud around is silly. This isn't a legalized activity, I doubt Idra or whoever else does coaching pays taxes for it, so please, let's not get ahead of ourselves, okay?
No but if you don't apply for self-employment you don't receive a pension. Money doesn't come free, stop talking about what you don't know.
I'm sorry what? Stop talking about what you don't know? I've been self-employed for 7 years, yeah, I know what I'm talking about. I was NOT talking about being an esports player, and declaring those money, I'm talking about getting 20eur on paypal or whatever verilynn got (I think it was what, 4-5 payments of 20-ish eur?). That is clearly undeclared money that you pay no tax for. Maybe "TRUE" coaches, that actually spend a lot of hours/day doing it and have no other source of income DO declare this type of income, but let's be honest, overall, if 10% do pay taxes for coaching I'd be surprised. And I'm sorry you think I'm taking his side, I really am not. But you're ACTUALLY talking about JAIL, are you serious? For someone sending you 20eur for teaching him? And she did teach them, it's practically THEIR fault for believing she was actually good. YES, it is fraud, but really? JAIL? Are you serious? Again, I'm not condoning anything, I'm not saying it was right, I'm just saying you MIGHT be overreacting. And even if he did win money he shouldn't have, it really has very little to do with DreamHack since it wasn't really cheating or anything game-related. He won his matches fair and square, no matter what ID he was using. The coaching part = very unfair, I agree, but the games were real and he won them based on his own skill, nothing else, so why be denied access to DreamHack? Because you're jealous you can't get to that level? Please.
Hm. So apparently it's fair and square if I have Steve Jobs participate in a high school business tournament for me, as long as he did it himself without cheating? I think you're getting something wrong there. I don't know too much about how tournament organizers think or how EU law works or anything, but it's gonna be hard to root for him, especially after that terrible, terrible reasoning he posted on the thread. Kind of why I think we need a international governing body, like how it works with track and field, swimming, etc.
So you are honestly saying that the skill difference between DeathAngel and someone like.. Sjow is the same as the one between Steve jobs and kids in school? Over-dramatizing much? Also, why was Sjow invited, Veralynn invited and DeathAngel was not? Because he was simply not as popular, it wasn't because he was in a totally different league. And you are saying that DeathAngel is guilty of Identity Fraud, yet he is not the one who charged for coaching (as far as I know, please disregard if there is evidence to the contrary). So technically, DeathAngel is only guilty of participating in tournaments under someone else's name. Not taking money from anyone (again, as far as I've seen, there's no evidence that sustains that). And you are honestly saying that playing under a different name is basically grounds for jail time? Ridiculous! Get him banned from DreamHack? Under what basis, that he played under a different nick? I'm sure no other pro-gamers do that. Or it's fine as long as nobody gets caught. You want to convince me, it's easy, tell me what DeathAngel did, related to the actual game, that would warrant him being banned from DreamHack. Spoofing? That's it? As long as there's no evidence that he actually got money from it, then he's fine to play. If he did make money off it, then it's up to the hosts at DH, no?
Calm down sir. I was talking about female tournaments with that analogy. And I clearly said that I don't know anything about EU laws or what DH officials think. I didn't say anything about having him banned or that he should be jailed. All I said was that its just hard to root for him in the competition. Quite honestly, I've been supportive of him since his attempt at Code A where he got to the finals. It was a little disappointing to find out that he was involved in such a fraud, and his response to it. Of course Veralynn was the mastermind, but DeathAngel knew what he was doing, and it's obviously against sportsmanship. It's not just playing under a "different ID", playing in a female-only tournament for her is obviously violating the tournament rules. But again, I don't really know how much consequence he should get. That's why I said in the earlier post that we need a international governing body that can straighten and determine those things out without us having to quarrel and bitch over it.
Yes we need this totally otherwise every person who has cheated in the past will always come back and snake their way back in the scene, the Korean scene wouldn't stand for this and have punished foreigners for being jerks in the past - GOM and Naniwa a good example, many thought it was a non-punishable offence but GOM held firm and showed authority in strongest possible way
Last edit: 2012-10-06 13:56:34 |
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| Zerg.Zilla Hungary. October 06 2012 14:44. Posts 2236 | Profile # |
Can't wait to get a picture with Stephano 
This is gonna be fun! |
| | (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~ |  |
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| aRyuujin United States. October 06 2012 14:44. Posts 3146 | Profile Blog # |
On October 06 2012 13:34 imJealous wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote:
DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Well you see they had originally invited Veralynn...
i couldn't help myself  |
| | gonna be in atlanta for NAQT's hsnct: send me a pm if you're there :D EGTL 12/4/12 |  |
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| SaSiWa Sweden. October 06 2012 16:17. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| So very happy to see NaNiwa on the list! Gogo get enough points to qualify for Winter! GLGL |
| | SaSiWa <3 |  |
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| transcendent one October 06 2012 16:51. Posts 251 | Profile # |
On October 06 2012 14:44 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 13:34 imJealous wrote:
On October 06 2012 00:21 Mackus wrote:
DeathAngel, really Dreamhack?
I mean, really? Why don't you invite Spades while you're at it?
Well you see they had originally invited Veralynn...
i couldn't help myself
nice name, I once folded Ryu Jin out of paper;;
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 Wombat_NI Northern Ireland. October 06 2012 17:02. Posts 5145 | Profile # |
The return of Old Generations, such a beautiful thing to wake up to!
Hopefully Deathangel can have a decent run, guy's a pretty legit decent player. Yeah he screwed up, but the game's his job. A complete ban from tournaments for a prolonged period would likely mean he'd have to give up playing full-time, which would seem a tad harsh. That said, he does seem to have got away somewhat scot-free.
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| | 'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - McBengt Also anyone with any questions or desires to help the Irish scene, PM me! |  |
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| jmbthirteen United States. October 06 2012 17:53. Posts 9610 | Profile Blog # |
On October 06 2012 10:58 johnnywup wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:52 jmbthirteen wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:28 johnnywup wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:44 Perchloric wrote:
I can't believe DeathAngelwas invited.
honestly how can you blame deathangel though? The economy in sc2 is shit, even if you're a top player you don't make much because you're not marketable or not famous yet. Given the statement of how much he made by powerleveling veralynn, who would say no, especially when no one really knows you and you can't make a decent salary at all.
the account leveling is one thing, but playing showmatches as her is fucked up. i dont care what the economy of sc2 is. there are 100s of other unknowns that dont do that shit.
well how do you know that? and however fucked playing showmatches as her is, it's better than earning less than $50/month....
no one is forcing DeathAngel to be a progamer. This is his choice. If he needs money, he shouldn't be a progamer. simple as that. |
| | "Don't Bro Me If You Don't Know Me" |  |
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 X3GoldDot Malaysia. October 06 2012 17:54. Posts 3840 | Profile # |
| Everyone deserves a second chance imho, even savior and the other guys deserve it. like, football teams were caught matchfixing, they were just fined and lost points in their standings table, same should be for e-sports, everyone should deserve punishment but deserve a second chance |
| | prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame |  |
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| parkin October 06 2012 17:55. Posts 861 | Profile Blog # |
| My bet is Stephano vs BeastyQ in the finals. |
| | mostly harmless | |
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| X3GoldDot Malaysia. October 06 2012 17:58. Posts 3840 | Profile # |
On October 06 2012 13:05 Superiorwolf wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:45 jalstar wrote:TOP and Inca were the first Koreans to ever go to a foreign tournament at DH Winter 2010, nice to see them back at Dreamhack.
On October 06 2012 10:28 johnnywup wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:44 Perchloric wrote:
I can't believe DeathAngelwas invited.
honestly how can you blame deathangel though? The economy in sc2 is shit, even if you're a top player you don't make much because you're not marketable or not famous yet. Given the statement of how much he made by powerleveling veralynn, who would say no, especially when no one really knows you and you can't make a decent salary at all.
Easy, there are many worse (male) players than DeathAngel that make much more than him. Incontrol, Suppy, MaxiumusBlack, and Destiny are not as good as DeathAngel but have spent more time making themselves into marketable personalities. Before the scandal DeathAngel didn't have any more personality than a random Korean, but he still blamed reverse sexism which is a bullshit excuse.
wtf bm yo . . . 
well you are definitly better than deathangel and the 3 other players he mentioned |
| | prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame | |
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| Musicus Germany. October 06 2012 18:03. Posts 2872 | Profile # |
On October 06 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 13:05 Superiorwolf wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:45 jalstar wrote:TOP and Inca were the first Koreans to ever go to a foreign tournament at DH Winter 2010, nice to see them back at Dreamhack.
On October 06 2012 10:28 johnnywup wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:44 Perchloric wrote:
I can't believe DeathAngelwas invited.
honestly how can you blame deathangel though? The economy in sc2 is shit, even if you're a top player you don't make much because you're not marketable or not famous yet. Given the statement of how much he made by powerleveling veralynn, who would say no, especially when no one really knows you and you can't make a decent salary at all.
Easy, there are many worse (male) players than DeathAngel that make much more than him. Incontrol, Suppy, MaxiumusBlack, and Destiny are not as good as DeathAngel but have spent more time making themselves into marketable personalities. Before the scandal DeathAngel didn't have any more personality than a random Korean, but he still blamed reverse sexism which is a bullshit excuse.
wtf bm yo . . .
well you are definitly better than deathangel and the 3 other players he mentioned
Yes lol. Suppy's name is so out of place here.
On topic I think this line up is awesome, lots of players I cheer for! Even Xlord, this will be fun. |
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| Wombat_NI Northern Ireland. October 06 2012 18:04. Posts 5145 | Profile # |
| Yeah Suppy has been unfairly made out to be one of these patchzergs by many, guy's genuinely pretty fucking good! |
| | 'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - McBengt Also anyone with any questions or desires to help the Irish scene, PM me! | |
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| Nyarly France. October 06 2012 18:33. Posts 846 | Profile Blog # |
45. Alien Invasion
Is :
Alien Invasion HaNfy - Zerg
Go InCa go ! :D
And desrow too ! |
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| InfusedTT.DaZe Romania. October 06 2012 22:02. Posts 509 | Profile # |
On October 06 2012 17:58 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 13:05 Superiorwolf wrote:
On October 06 2012 10:45 jalstar wrote:TOP and Inca were the first Koreans to ever go to a foreign tournament at DH Winter 2010, nice to see them back at Dreamhack.
On October 06 2012 10:28 johnnywup wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
On October 05 2012 23:44 Perchloric wrote:
I can't believe DeathAngelwas invited.
honestly how can you blame deathangel though? The economy in sc2 is shit, even if you're a top player you don't make much because you're not marketable or not famous yet. Given the statement of how much he made by powerleveling veralynn, who would say no, especially when no one really knows you and you can't make a decent salary at all.
Easy, there are many worse (male) players than DeathAngel that make much more than him. Incontrol, Suppy, MaxiumusBlack, and Destiny are not as good as DeathAngel but have spent more time making themselves into marketable personalities. Before the scandal DeathAngel didn't have any more personality than a random Korean, but he still blamed reverse sexism which is a bullshit excuse.
wtf bm yo . . .
well you are definitly better than deathangel
i woudn't bet on that... |
| | "Echoes of past events nudge the tiller on my present course, I await its reflection in the future" |  |
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| Aeir United Kingdom. October 07 2012 00:12. Posts 33 | Profile # |
| I would bet on that ) |
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 jalstar United States. October 07 2012 04:31. Posts 6940 | Profile Blog # |
| I love Suppy TT, was just naming players who were more famous for personality than tournament results. |
| | they're talking about you, boy, but you're still the same |  |
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| Yorbon Netherlands. October 07 2012 05:04. Posts 1371 | Profile # |
Rooting for deathangel..
Or not.
Stephano has quite the chance, i think
For the rest i'm hoping for a lot upsets.Last edit: 2012-10-07 05:05:38 |
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| Pocky52 United States. October 07 2012 16:02. Posts 454 | Profile # |
| oGs!!! rooting for them ^^ |
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