| Sablar Sweden. October 14 2012 13:28. Posts 804 | Profile Blog # |
They should make hydras viable early game. Then we would have some action. Like +1 speed is enough to make it happen.
bamLast edit: 2012-10-14 13:28:22 |
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| zenkicker Philippines. October 14 2012 13:43. Posts 158 | Profile # |
| Say goodbye to DT rushes and voidray harass. |
| | I you cant beat them, join them. |  |
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| Halozination October 14 2012 14:22. Posts 62 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
Playing as t with them felt nice but playing against them feels just like horrible gameplay.
They restrict the player who plays vs them just way too much in what he can do. You can't do early pressure or allin aggression, you can't do harrasment, you can't even move your army around freely instead you need to move it pixel by pixel or camp it in your base which makes it just horrible gameplay.
Even if you have detection with your army this is true because detection usually moves along a different path or is faster or slower than your army. So what can happen out on the map or close to your opponents base is that your detection gets killed by the mines and you need to go back home and camp or your army and detection are not close enough together (different movement speed or path) and a lot of units get killed or you encounter a mine field with detection and you can only push into it with very few units extremely slowly to avoid losing many units but if retreats mines slowly this slowpush can take ages. Fact is that you have better things to do than to invest all your time into killing a few mines so its better to stay home and camp.Last edit: 2012-10-14 14:25:42 |
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| GARcher Canada. October 14 2012 14:52. Posts 293 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete. |
| | ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere. |  |
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| Dealer009 Canada. October 14 2012 15:00. Posts 3 | Profile # |
Entomb seems too powerful early game already. I think it should be removed because it is incredibly annoying, yet they are buffing it? I'm speaking as a Z in ZvP.
It simply costs way too much in defenses to protect against them early game. The spore without evo chamber helps this a little. How it works now, if you scout it perfectly you can make enough defenses to hold it off, but you've likely spent at least as much as the P to make a stargate.
I still see no way of preventing falling behind. If you scout a stargate, assume entomb is coming, build at least one spore at main and expansion and have queen on patrol, you won't kill oracle and you will lose tons of mining time. Does anyone know how many minerals exactly are lost if someone puts their drones back on minerals exactly when the free up?
Now you can add a spine crawler or two at each mineral patch to help with the entomb shells, but it still takes a long time. Do the emtomb shells have armor because it should be removed to make drones microing on them to attack more effective.
Yeah entomb is super OP. The only thing I could see working is rushing muta at a similar cost as a stargate but you have to tech to lair extremely quickly - basically means a one-base opening which also puts you behind. |
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| Hattori_Hanzo Singapore. October 14 2012 15:01. Posts 972 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 14:52 GARcher wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete.
It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps.
Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own.
There, not obsolete again. |
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| larse October 14 2012 15:14. Posts 999 | Profile # |
Why you people just don't get it?
The revelation change and the purify change are to give protoss earlier means to deal with widow mine. It's the same logic with the spore change. Of course, revelation with detection is great, but it can't deal with the new threat of the early widow mine. You can't give purify detection while keeping revelation the same. That will give protoss too many means of detection. So it's a hard decision that you must give one thing detection but cut the detection of the other unit. The change doesn't look simplistic but it gets the job done.
But the hallucination change is stupid. Now protoss has more ways to do blink timing. You can keep your mothership core at home for defense (it detects clock as well), while using hallucination pheonix to give high ground vision. Before this patch, at least you have to bring the mothership core with your stalker to do blink timing. Now doing blink timing is safe and more effective with hallucination pheonix. Sincerely hope they revert this change.Last edit: 2012-10-14 15:18:24 |
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 TheLunatic October 14 2012 15:23. Posts 302 | Profile # |
| Yea I say bring back hallucination research for sure, make it cheaper if its absolutely necessary but don't make it free, then toss has guaranteed scouting every game no matter what |
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| Phoenix2003 October 14 2012 16:04. Posts 101 | Profile # |
| Half of these changes were because you terrans wanted to keep the that broken widow mine so YOU'RE really to blame for the spore/hallucination changes. Just saying. |
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| GARcher Canada. October 14 2012 16:09. Posts 293 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 14:52 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own. There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late.
Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM.
Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech. |
| | ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere. | |
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| Crawdad October 14 2012 16:12. Posts 612 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 15:14 larse wrote:
Why you people just don't get it?
The revelation change and the purify change are to give protoss earlier means to deal with widow mine. It's the same logic with the spore change. Of course, revelation with detection is great, but it can't deal with the new threat of the early widow mine. You can't give purify detection while keeping revelation the same. That will give protoss too many means of detection. So it's a hard decision that you must give one thing detection but cut the detection of the other unit. The change doesn't look simplistic but it gets the job done.
Okay, so how are you going to deal with Widow mines as you move across the map? How do you deal with Swarm Hosts? Proxy Nexus all the way to your opponent's base? Oh wait, that's right, you just have to go Observers like ALWAYS. Revelation gave me some faint hope that Robo would not remain all-powerful, that we may see Stargate openers, but now... |
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| larse October 14 2012 16:44. Posts 999 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:12 Crawdad wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 15:14 larse wrote:
Why you people just don't get it?
The revelation change and the purify change are to give protoss earlier means to deal with widow mine. It's the same logic with the spore change. Of course, revelation with detection is great, but it can't deal with the new threat of the early widow mine. You can't give purify detection while keeping revelation the same. That will give protoss too many means of detection. So it's a hard decision that you must give one thing detection but cut the detection of the other unit. The change doesn't look simplistic but it gets the job done.
Okay, so how are you going to deal with Widow mines as you move across the map? How do you deal with Swarm Hosts? Proxy Nexus all the way to your opponent's base? Oh wait, that's right, you just have to go Observers like ALWAYS. Revelation gave me some faint hope that Robo would not remain all-powerful, that we may see Stargate openers, but now...
I mean early detection. I didn't talk anything beyond early widow mine aggression. |
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| obsid United States. October 14 2012 16:53. Posts 383 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 15:14 larse wrote:
Why you people just don't get it?
The revelation change and the purify change are to give protoss earlier means to deal with widow mine. It's the same logic with the spore change. Of course, revelation with detection is great, but it can't deal with the new threat of the early widow mine. You can't give purify detection while keeping revelation the same. That will give protoss too many means of detection. So it's a hard decision that you must give one thing detection but cut the detection of the other unit. The change doesn't look simplistic but it gets the job done.
So why is that too many means of detection? Clearly if robo play has observer+purify for detection why cant stargate play have oracle+purify? How is that too much detection? |
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| Hattori_Hanzo Singapore. October 14 2012 16:59. Posts 972 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:09 GARcher wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 14 2012 14:52 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own. There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM. Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it.
Marauders are range 6.
Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks. |
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| larse October 14 2012 16:59. Posts 999 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:53 obsid wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 15:14 larse wrote:
Why you people just don't get it?
The revelation change and the purify change are to give protoss earlier means to deal with widow mine. It's the same logic with the spore change. Of course, revelation with detection is great, but it can't deal with the new threat of the early widow mine. You can't give purify detection while keeping revelation the same. That will give protoss too many means of detection. So it's a hard decision that you must give one thing detection but cut the detection of the other unit. The change doesn't look simplistic but it gets the job done.
So why is that too many means of detection? Clearly if robo play has observer+purify for detection why cant stargate play have oracle+purify? How is that too much detection?
If you count the means of detection of each race, u will know why. |
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| Plume United States. October 14 2012 17:06. Posts 46 | Profile # |
| I do not like the changes to entomb, 60 seconds AND only 75 energy is pretty insane, and they are not made of paper anymore. |
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| GARcher Canada. October 14 2012 17:11. Posts 293 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:09 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 14 2012 14:52 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own. There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM. Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6. Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics.
Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't.
What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
Last edit: 2012-10-14 17:13:10 |
| | ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere. | |
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| obsid United States. October 14 2012 17:17. Posts 383 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:59 larse wrote:
If you count the means of detection of each race, u will know why.
So Zerg has overseers, toss has observers, terran has raven. These are the only constant mobile detection each of the races have. They all have static defense detection with spores, cannons, turrets. And they all had units that can detect with a mana base ability fungal/scan/revelation. Purify being like a super cannon with additional static defense (non mobile) doesnt add so much detection they needed to remove revelation....Last edit: 2012-10-14 17:17:44 |
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| Hattori_Hanzo Singapore. October 14 2012 17:24. Posts 972 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 17:11 GARcher wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 14 2012 16:09 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 15:01 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On October 14 2012 14:52 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 13:17 dragonblade369 wrote:
On October 14 2012 10:03 GARcher wrote:
On October 14 2012 09:59 Qikz wrote:
I do agree that the Widow Mines needs to be nerfed or removed and give Terran an actual unit and not some gimmicky crap.
What? Widow Mines so far are by far the best unit in the expansion in terms of being designed really well without borrowing ideas from other units.
I sincerely hope that you are trolling.
Widow mines are amazing. It creates a lot of positional play and makes TvX an interesting dynamism
No it doesn't. It makes Bio TvT completely obsolete.
No, it just means A-move across the map with your MMM is obsolete. It takes between 3-5 scans to move across most maps. Then secure your attack paths with widow mines of your own. There, not obsolete again.
I don't know what kind of maps you play to have 3-5 scans cover base distances. Ravens are very expensive and come out relatively late. Mines shuts down drops too which is a big part of playing bio. Simply put, Widow Mines take away mobility which is the sole advantage of MMM. Also if you need Widow Mines to secure attack paths then there is no point in going bio because you are splitting resources into 2 tech paths. You will be better off just going straight mech.
It's called a macro OC. Widow mines have changed the dynamics of Terran. Deal with it. Marauders are range 6. Now you're just exaggerating. Placing two widow mines near or around the place you wish to drop is total of 300 min, 100 gas, less than two siege tanks.
So I have to blow all my energy on scans just so my army doesn't get blown up by something that cost 75 minerals and 25 gas while the opponent can mule all day. Yep, it does change the dynamics. Marauders are range 6 so what? They still can't do anything if there's no detection which still comes back to blowing scans just to avoid mines. Keep in mind they aren't Banelings either. Banelings die when they explode while mines don't. What do you mean placing mines at the place I'm going to drop? You aren't making any sense. The mines have to get there somehow and I doubt any good player will allow 2 enemy mines in his or her base.
No...
You scan the terrain your medivacs will fly past enroute to the LZ (landing zone), then place widow mines two at a time along the route.
This is actually a good thing as it'll catch mid-game vikings trying to stop an incoming drop.
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| habeck October 14 2012 17:25. Posts 730 | Profile # |
| In Order to make one stupid unti effective, they make others inaffective, so lame... |
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