| MockHamill Sweden. October 14 2012 16:05. Posts 571 | Profile # |
My experience so far in beta is that mech works excellent in TvT and TvZ but not in TvP.
Widow mines do very little against Protoss since they can kill all the mines before getting into range. Hellbats protect the Tanks against Zealots much better then hellions do, but you still lose to mass Immortals.
Ghosts works but it is hard to get enough resources for both Mech, Ghosts and upgrades.
Is anyone successful with mech in TvP given equally skilled opponents? If so please describe in detail how you play the matchup.Last edit: 2012-10-14 16:05:29 |
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| GARcher Canada. October 14 2012 16:19. Posts 293 | Profile # |
| Mech is never going to be viable as long as the Immortal exists and Thor and Battlecruiser have energy bars. |
| | ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere. |
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| Phoenix2003 October 14 2012 16:21. Posts 101 | Profile # |
There's a thread that's called:
How to Mech TvP and make protosses cry in the strategy forum.
But, I'm sure you already knew that. |
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| TheLunatic October 14 2012 16:25. Posts 299 | Profile # | |
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| Phoenix2003 October 14 2012 16:32. Posts 101 | Profile # |
| Now go tell that to Lyyna. I'm sure he didn't get that memo. |
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| SigmaoctanusIV United States. October 14 2012 16:44. Posts 2431 | Profile Blog # |
| Widow mines are so damn good vs protoss what are you smoking, And mis control from protoss and your obs get blown out of the air. Your push is stopped tell you get a new obs it's important to have good scouting and position playing mech vs Protoss. get some vikings to snipe obs and you are in a great spot. |
| | I am Godzilla You are Japan |
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| MetalGear Australia. October 14 2012 17:24. Posts 44 | Profile # |
| No i believe its not the units that are the issue its the maps i had a easier time meching on maps like ohana and daybreak then on the HOTS maps even with the new units. With some of the expo's being so difficult to take as a mech player and the huge open spaces the maps are basically made for bio and you will do a lot better on the HOTS maps using bio. |
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 Sophia Germany. October 14 2012 17:26. Posts 115 | Profile # |
Siege Tanks are just terrible against: Zealot, Immortal, Colossi, Tempest/Void -_-
Siege Tanks are good against: Stalker, Templar ???
I gave up on Blizzard. They just can't balance the game right. TvP will probably be the same in HotS, maybe with 1-2 small changes.
To make Mech Viable Blizz would need to buff Tanks and that would break the game even more. |
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| pmp10 October 14 2012 18:18. Posts 1389 | Profile # |
Sadly mech doesn't look viable at pro-level and most likely it will stay that way.
Too many drastic changes would be required to make it work.
The real problem is that all new terran units were intended to make it happen and this puts the race is in an awkward position.
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| DaveVAH Canada. October 14 2012 18:24. Posts 159 | Profile Blog # |
Unfortunately mech is still not viable it seems. Widow mines help early game but the problem remains that the core mech army just dies to protoss ground armies and the immortal. It is sad to see lots of hots streamers are switching back to bio in TvP with zero hots units past early game. I was hopeing to see battle hellions with bio now that medivacs heaal them but it is not happening, probably because of the convulted and costly path to get hellbats and its upgrades.
Mech needs an anti immortal unit to be viable. |
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| Tankz123 Denmark. October 14 2012 18:27. Posts 120 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:21 Phoenix2003 wrote:
There's a thread that's called:
How to Mech TvP and make protosses cry in the strategy forum.
But, I'm sure you already knew that.
Tbh, one person having "decent" sucess with it doesnt really make it viable (and not even decent, lower than that) - i play a completly different style of mech from him in WOL, and it also "works" to some degree - but it still requires the enemy protoss to play.. well, just really bad to lose. |
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| Thezzy Netherlands. October 14 2012 18:34. Posts 609 | Profile # |
Remove the energy bar on the Thor, make the 250mm actually useful and re-introduce the Goliath with the Haywire missile as its only ground attack but with decent movement speed and AA to deal with Immortals and Stargate openings.
Chargelots, Archons and Immortals as well will still remain strong against Mech and the Mech army remains immobile compared to Bio.
Other things I'd like to see changed (may just be me):
Thor speed to 2.25 so it doesn't lag behind the whole Mech army.
Thors not needing to 'lower their arms' before they can fire, this firing delay makes any sort of micro impossible.
Tanks going to 150/100/2.
For those worrying about Tank buffs affecting TvZ, perhaps they need to add another Unit Type for units such as Marauders, Zealots and Roaches (and maybe others). Let's call the unit type 'Medium' (as opposed to Zerglings being 'Light') and that Tanks deal full damage to that type.
This would increase damage to Zealots but leave Zergling damage the same.
The only other Tank vs Protoss buff I can think of would have to be against Shields but we already got EMP for that. |
| | Playing Terran is like flying down a MULE drop in a marine suit, firing a Gauss Rifle |
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| GARcher Canada. October 14 2012 18:34. Posts 293 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 18:24 DaveVAH wrote:
Unfortunately mech is still not viable it seems. Widow mines help early game but the problem remains that the core mech army just dies to protoss ground armies and the immortal. It is sad to see lots of hots streamers are switching back to bio in TvP with zero hots units past early game. I was hopeing to see battle hellions with bio now that medivacs heaal them but it is not happening, probably because of the convulted and costly path to get hellbats and its upgrades.
Mech needs an anti immortal unit to be viable.
Remove energy bars and give Thors Haywire Missiles would be a good start. |
| | ZvZ is like a shitty apartment: Roaches and Fungal Growth everywhere. |
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| Qikz United Kingdom. October 14 2012 18:35. Posts 6727 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 18:27 Tankz123 wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 16:21 Phoenix2003 wrote:
There's a thread that's called:
How to Mech TvP and make protosses cry in the strategy forum.
But, I'm sure you already knew that.
Tbh, one person having "decent" sucess with it doesnt really make it viable (and not even decent, lower than that) - i play a completly different style of mech from him in WOL, and it also "works" to some degree - but it still requires the enemy protoss to play.. well, just really bad to lose.
I play also a different style of mech in WoL to him, but I'd hardly say it requires them to play badly to lose. That's exactly how the entire game works. The better player will make less mistakes and win, the loser will lose.
MorroW is making mech work in HoTS TvP and he's in GM level atm, if he can get it to work with the style I use in WoL, just with added Battlehellions and Mines, I'd say that's good enough for me.
Also to anyone complaining it's too hard to get ghosts and mech at the same time, it's not. Seriously it's perfectly affordable and try it rather than complaining it's too expensive. |
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| Tppz! Germany. October 14 2012 18:40. Posts 1311 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 18:35 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 18:27 Tankz123 wrote:
On October 14 2012 16:21 Phoenix2003 wrote:
There's a thread that's called:
How to Mech TvP and make protosses cry in the strategy forum.
But, I'm sure you already knew that.
Tbh, one person having "decent" sucess with it doesnt really make it viable (and not even decent, lower than that) - i play a completly different style of mech from him in WOL, and it also "works" to some degree - but it still requires the enemy protoss to play.. well, just really bad to lose.
I play also a different style of mech in WoL to him, but I'd hardly say it requires them to play badly to lose. That's exactly how the entire game works. The better player will make less mistakes and win, the loser will lose. MorroW is making mech work in HoTS TvP and he's in GM level atm, if he can get it to work with the style I use in WoL, just with added Battlehellions and Mines, I'd say that's good enough for me. Also to anyone complaining it's too hard to get ghosts and mech at the same time, it's not. Seriously it's perfectly affordable and try it rather than complaining it's too expensive.
MorroW is just so many levels ahead of his opponents skillwise and still has a high loosing rate. Imagine MVP would play a nameless NA master Protoss and win. Is that a good thing? Yeah but it doesnt make a statement.
I played Mech in WoL and I mostly lost becasue my oppponents didnt know how to play against it and were bad because of this. There was no "I am better than you and did less mistakes". There was only: Oh gosh I am so happy my opponent has no idea what to do. |
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| althaz Australia. October 14 2012 20:50. Posts 729 | Profile # |
On October 14 2012 16:05 MockHamill wrote:
but you still lose to mass Immortals.
This is 100% absolutely wrong, even in WoL. You can't kill mech with Chargelot-Immortal if it's maxed vs maxed in WoL without amazing flanks and bad tank positioning (or the world's worst EMPs), the reason Battle Hellions are good is they can tank colossi shots which means you can stop the chargelots closing on the tanks.
Ghost-mech is good in WoL, but it takes a long time to become powerful. In HotS you can use battle hellions to tank colossi fire better which makes mech more powerful down the track. Hopefully mines allow you to survive the midgame vs good opponents, but it's too early to say yet. |
| | If history has taught us anything, we can use that information to destroy it. |
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| DaveVAH Canada. October 14 2012 21:04. Posts 159 | Profile Blog # |
On October 14 2012 18:35 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 14 2012 18:27 Tankz123 wrote:
On October 14 2012 16:21 Phoenix2003 wrote:
There's a thread that's called:
How to Mech TvP and make protosses cry in the strategy forum.
But, I'm sure you already knew that.
Tbh, one person having "decent" sucess with it doesnt really make it viable (and not even decent, lower than that) - i play a completly different style of mech from him in WOL, and it also "works" to some degree - but it still requires the enemy protoss to play.. well, just really bad to lose.
I play also a different style of mech in WoL to him, but I'd hardly say it requires them to play badly to lose. That's exactly how the entire game works. The better player will make less mistakes and win, the loser will lose. MorroW is making mech work in HoTS TvP and he's in GM level atm, if he can get it to work with the style I use in WoL, just with added Battlehellions and Mines, I'd say that's good enough for me. Also to anyone complaining it's too hard to get ghosts and mech at the same time, it's not. Seriously it's perfectly affordable and try it rather than complaining it's too expensive.
Actually Morrow is having quiet abit of difficulty making it work when he hits a good opponent. He is actually to the point of frustration sometimes but still trys to go mech rather than bio to test it.Last edit: 2012-10-14 21:05:54 |
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| YyapSsap New Zealand. October 14 2012 21:10. Posts 898 | Profile # |
Ps that control there tempests well really hurts mech even more so due to their insane range.. chip away at the siege tanks or whatever is in range while being protected by stalkers.
Mines dont do enough damage tbh as long as they have an observer with them. The P army generally feels too beefy even with the kind of firepower you have (not enough imo).
Battle hellions seem like a good addition but everything else seems kind of out of place. |
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| Aquila- October 14 2012 21:39. Posts 290 | Profile Blog # |
| As soon as protoss sees mech, he can get a stargate, tempests and on the ground a few chargelots and immortals and later templer that can easily storm the vikings that try to kill tempests. Mines can easily be picked off. In order to be able to go mech you have to make so many units that are not mech, means as soon as you are going mech you already have to switch to something different like vikings or ghosts. Also with the increased mobility of protoss with the core and recall etc mech tvp is never going to work with the current stats. |
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| TimKim0713 Korea (South). October 15 2012 14:22. Posts 55 | Profile # |
| I'd say add stimpack to mech LOL But seriously, i have pretty good winrate in mech for tvt tvz, but my tvp is near 20%. when i set up my my widow mines in earlymid game, stalkers just clean them up as they did in bw. so i think that widow mine should be an ability or the unit shouldnt exist. i'd rather prefer the unit w/the splash in its range as they showd longago(sorry idk the name)&nerf it til it gets balanced&make its burow time to 5 sec so when its dropd in min line... |
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