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My fave map from you i think. You've really used the power of this kind of symmetry to create unique terrain and layouts. My main concern is the rush distance, it looks a bit long. What are the map bounds?
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Seems really zerg favored, but it might be okay.
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Only potential problem I see are Warp in by pylons next to those 1 gas 3rds and easy zealot harras or attack from both side.
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Not sure why the doublesided bases are blocked by rocks. Very easy to deny mining here. I think the map would be much more interesting if it was easy for players to take these bases, instigating a constant pull to harass/defend that spot while maintaining normal map presence / posturing / safety (like Outsider).
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Yeah I was considering taking out those rocks, but I worried a little about zerg mass-expanding at the beginning. It might not be a very valid concern (on my part) though.
The rush distance and bounds are fairly big (bounds are like 140x170 iirc, rush distance is a few seconds longer than daybreak), but I don't think that is a problem. If you pylon scout vs. T your probe will still get in, which is the main cutoff for how long a rush distance can be.
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Just block the minerals with LOS blockers and rocks. Makes PvP expanding easier because the attacking toss will need an observer to warp in behind the defending toss.
You should include the spawn locations in your overview image because I had a hard time finding them. It's a weird layout. =D
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United States9646 Posts
i actually love this map, though i highly doubt anyone taking the mineral wall bases tbh. just replace those with unpathable tbh.
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FFE impossible on this map?
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On November 04 2012 12:44 ClysmiC wrote: FFE impossible on this map? Actually you can do a 3-building wall between the 2 ramps, works pretty much normal.
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You should include the spawn locations in your overview image because I had a hard time finding them.
They're there, just almost impossible to see because of the circle-shaped spaceship doodads that are underneath them.
I think I'll take the rocks away from the mineral wall bases. Taking them away should provide a little more opportunity for risky greed plays early on, and probably see the bases get used quite a bit more.
The LOS blocker idea actually isn't bad (you would have to place them on the middle line w/ ignore placement requirements, but I think it would work). It would make it slightly harder to harass (although it still wouldn't be too hard), and put greater importance on the XNT inbetween the naturals because it would give you vision over the LOS blockers. I'll see what that looks like in the editor.
edit: yeah FFE is pretty standard here, just FFE the same way you would on daybreak or cloud kingdom
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On November 04 2012 13:08 Fatam wrote:Show nested quote +You should include the spawn locations in your overview image because I had a hard time finding them. They're there, just almost impossible to see because of the circle-shaped spaceship doodads that are underneath them. I think I'll take the rocks away from the mineral wall bases. Taking them away should provide a little more opportunity for risky greed plays early on, and probably see the bases get used quite a bit more. The LOS blocker idea actually isn't bad (you would have to place them on the middle line w/ ignore placement requirements, but I think it would work). It would make it slightly harder to harass (although it still wouldn't be too hard), and put greater importance on the XNT inbetween the naturals because it would give you vision over the LOS blockers. I'll see what that looks like in the editor. edit: yeah FFE is pretty standard here, just FFE the same way you would on daybreak or cloud kingdom
ROFL @ the spawns.
Ohhh the watch tower is interesting. IDK about it.
The LOS blockers thing works. I have minerals blocked like that on a map I'm working on.
FFE on Cloud Kingdom is very different than on Daybreak. On CK it takes 3 gates to fully wall while on DB it take 3 gates + a cannon/pylon to fully wall. I know people don't wall fully. I'm just saying Daybreak's wall sucks. It barely gets away with it because of the distance.
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I had to make it unpassable between the two bases. Not that it affects much, as both side's mineral patches getting mined out would not happen very often. The reason I had to make it unpassable between them is I did some testing and once you got beyond minimum saturation (12 workers on 6 mineral patches) the workers would try to go alllllllllll the way around to the other side's patches. -lol-
I instated the LOS blockers. You can't build on the los blockers, but a pylon built right next to them can still easily warp in over the chasm if you have vision. I'm pretty happy with how it is now. The LOS blockers mean that the base requires at least a little effort to harass. And like I said before, it just makes that XNT a little bit more interesting.
@ FFE - I always FFE'd the same way on CK and Daybreak. But since I watched one of apollo's videos I like the idea of putting a pylon in the CK wall and placing your cyber core on the highground using that pylon's power field so it can't be sniped so easily.
edit: I suppose you might want to see what it looks like. Nothing fancy + Show Spoiler +
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Ah shit. You didn't have to do that. Just make the all the minerals accessible from both sides. I'll up an example in a sec.
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No way that could work. Either you create a space where units can walk through (obviously would be imbalanced) or any other solution the worker AI will mess up and try to go all the way around.
The only other solution that could sort of work would be to put a campaign unit in and give it 25 armor or something insane. (then the workers would mineral walk through it) but I'm pretty sure that would make it arcade-only lol
Not to mention, the current implementation doesn't really have any downsides, so I don't see what's wrong w/ it
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On November 04 2012 16:18 Fatam wrote: No way that could work. Either you create a space where units can walk through (obviously would be imbalanced) or any other solution the worker AI will mess up and try to go all the way around.
Trust me it does. I can't get a good pic right now. So I'll show you how to do it with this:
let say ☐☐ = a mineral patch (☐ is the size of 1 box) | = wall or something - = space
---|-----------------------------------| ☐|☐---☐☐---☐☐---☐☐---| ---|---☐☐---☐☐---☐☐---☐|☐ ---|-----------------------------------|
Yes you can push the minerals in the wall with ignore placement. This is the best I can do for now. Sorry.
It can create this interesting thing where the minerals mine out and you and your opponent can do counter attacks.
Got you you an image: + Show Spoiler +
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Holy blink stalker all in !
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Thanks for the effort, but I don't know if that would be necessary or change anything. You'd need there to be 12 patches not 8 (6 for each player) so it would be quite wide (which would decrease the efficiency of the base, because your CC/N/H has to be in the middle, so the outside patches would be a fairly big distance for the workers, when w/ the current setup the outside ones are already a little inefficient), and even if a patch or two mines out, it's pretty unlikely anything other than maybe a few lings are going to get sent through the tiny choke it creates, because the other player likely already has defense set up there.
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On November 05 2012 06:40 Fatam wrote: Thanks for the effort, but I don't know if that would be necessary or change anything. You'd need there to be 12 patches not 8 (6 for each player) so it would be quite wide (which would decrease the efficiency of the base, because your CC/N/H has to be in the middle, so the outside patches would be a fairly big distance for the workers, when w/ the current setup the outside ones are already a little inefficient), and even if a patch or two mines out, it's pretty unlikely anything other than maybe a few lings are going to get sent through the tiny choke it creates, because the other player likely already has defense set up there.
Then that base has 1/4th less money than any other nice easier full base. No one will take it. 8 is fine. If both players take it then they will fight over it. Which is a lot more interesting. You might even want to make it better of a base by adding a 2nd rich gas that can also be attack from the other side.
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