It seems to me that the siege tank is not a unit that sees much action anymore. It's been nerfed by blizzard to the point where we don't see terrible damage like we did in BW. I'd like to propose a change that would make the siege tank even more exciting to watch as a spectator and more viable in high level play.
The mortar in WC3 was a unit that did lots of damage. However, the projectiles shot a bit too fast and they were not really dodgeable. However, if we rethink the concept of projectiles, I think we could make it work in SC2. And of course they would be dodgeable, so the micro factor would be there, however the radius would be large enough that it would not be too easy for even progamers if there were a lot of siege tanks attacking at the same time.
In addition, the fact that the projectiles are dodgeable would make it so Blizzard would be ok with increasing the damage to a nice level.
Video of the mortar team:
What I propose is this:
1. Give the siege tank projectile weaponry 2. Make it do splash damage with a 2.0 radius 3. Give it a projectile speed of 6.25 4. Increase the projectile range of 17 in siege mode 5. Make the projectile damage equal to 70 within a 1.5 radius, and 40 damage for the outside 0.5 radius. 6. Give the projectiles a unit size equivalent to the battle hellion with a cannon shell-like design.
I am sure that this would make the siege tank a more used and fun unit to watch, regardless of whether or not mech is used.
Poll: Do you think the siege tank needs a change?
Yes (80)
87%
No (12)
13%
92 total votes
Your vote: Do you think the siege tank needs a change?
Poll: What do YOU think would be the best change for siege tanks?
Decrease supply to 2 (31)
45%
Research upgrade to siege mode to increase damage/negate shield armor (22)
32%
Screw tanks, make fungal growth a projectile! (9)
13%
Negate shield armor (3)
4%
Faster attack speed (3)
4%
Increase siege mode range (1)
1%
69 total votes
Your vote: What do YOU think would be the best change for siege tanks?
(Vote): Negate shield armor (Vote): Faster attack speed (Vote): Decrease supply to 2 (Vote): Increase siege mode range (Vote): Research upgrade to siege mode to increase damage/negate shield armor (Vote): Screw tanks, make fungal growth a projectile!
Poll: What nerfs to the tank would you be willing to accept with a tank buff
Slower siege mode transformation (44)
88%
Decreased attack speed in siege mode (3)
6%
Tank attack becomes a projectile (3)
6%
Increase siege mode range (0)
0%
50 total votes
Your vote: What nerfs to the tank would you be willing to accept with a tank buff
(Vote): Slower siege mode transformation (Vote): Decreased attack speed in siege mode (Vote): Tank attack becomes a projectile (Vote): Increase siege mode range
Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. Please share your thoughts!
Also, since HOTS beta is the testing ground for reworking older units, if someone could please post this thread in the HOTS section of blizz forums I would appreciate it. I don't have a beta key!
Last edit: 2012-11-11 05:19:03
I heard that Eclypsia couldn't pay the players because they spent all the sponsorship $ to feed desRow so he wouldn't eat the Koreans. ////////////// ThorZaiN, Flash, BaBy, GuMiho | Rain, MC, JangBi | DongRaeGu, Stephano, Scarlett, Jaedong
Please post your comments if you don't like the idea! I'm looking for some feedback, and will make modifications based on the thoughts of the majority
I heard that Eclypsia couldn't pay the players because they spent all the sponsorship $ to feed desRow so he wouldn't eat the Koreans. ////////////// ThorZaiN, Flash, BaBy, GuMiho | Rain, MC, JangBi | DongRaeGu, Stephano, Scarlett, Jaedong
Isn't the tank a key unit in both PvT and PvZ in most games that go into the mid game or longer? It seems to be working pretty effectively there..In PvP, it's not the go-to unit, but it's still good for fortifying bases, 1/1/1 builds, and early marine tank pushes. It could probably use a verrrry minor tweak vs protoss, but they have to be careful because in certain situations, even against protoss, tanks can be extremely powerful.
Last edit: 2012-11-10 05:52:12
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scph Korea (South). November 10 2012 05:56. Posts 254
On November 10 2012 05:51 Ramone wrote: Isn't the tank a key unit in both PvT and PvZ in most games that go into the mid game or longer? It seems to be working pretty effectively there..In PvP, it's not the go-to unit, but it's still good for fortifying bases, 1/1/1 builds, and early marine tank pushes. It could probably use a verrrry minor tweak vs protoss, but they have to be careful because in certain situations, even against protoss, tanks can be extremely powerful.
lol.
Antylamon United States. November 10 2012 05:59. Posts 1351
On November 10 2012 05:51 Ramone wrote: Isn't the tank a key unit in both PvT and PvZ in most games that go into the mid game or longer? It seems to be working pretty effectively there..In PvP, it's not the go-to unit, but it's still good for fortifying bases, 1/1/1 builds, and early marine tank pushes. It could probably use a verrrry minor tweak vs protoss, but they have to be careful because in certain situations, even against protoss, tanks can be extremely powerful.
I think just upping the damage as is would be good too, but Blizz seems hesitant to make a change because of the way units clump in HotS afaik.
I heard that Eclypsia couldn't pay the players because they spent all the sponsorship $ to feed desRow so he wouldn't eat the Koreans. ////////////// ThorZaiN, Flash, BaBy, GuMiho | Rain, MC, JangBi | DongRaeGu, Stephano, Scarlett, Jaedong
A dodgeable projectile artillery would be a very nice unit, at least if the BW Lurker is any indication. But I don't think the tank needs that big a change. #projectilefungal2013
Morbidius Brazil. November 10 2012 06:49. Posts 405
I think the tanks did operate to a similar role like this in beta. Although the projectile was instant so it was kinda different but the overall concept used to be the same. I think it was change to offer more consistent data and attack pattern. I am not entirely sure but it was change during beta how the seige fire works though
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Targe United Kingdom. November 10 2012 07:49. Posts 1696
On November 10 2012 05:51 Ramone wrote: Isn't the tank a key unit in both PvT and PvZ in most games that go into the mid game or longer? It seems to be working pretty effectively there..In PvP, it's not the go-to unit, but it's still good for fortifying bases, 1/1/1 builds, and early marine tank pushes. It could probably use a verrrry minor tweak vs protoss, but they have to be careful because in certain situations, even against protoss, tanks can be extremely powerful.
wat.
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On November 10 2012 05:51 Ramone wrote: Isn't the tank a key unit in both PvT and PvZ in most games that go into the mid game or longer? It seems to be working pretty effectively there..In PvP, it's not the go-to unit, but it's still good for fortifying bases, 1/1/1 builds, and early marine tank pushes. It could probably use a verrrry minor tweak vs protoss, but they have to be careful because in certain situations, even against protoss, tanks can be extremely powerful.
I would like it if more abilities and attacks were projectiles and at least partly dodgeable for example the collosus could be changed into a much more exciting unit that way. However I don't think it would be a good idea for the siegetank at all. Tanks are already a very dynamic unit because they need to siege before they can do aoe damage this doesn't have any synergy with your proposal. The problem is not that tanks are not exciting enough it is that they are too bad in some situations. Particularly in TvP where charge zealots and immortals make engaging into tank lines way too easy. But also in TvZ tanks don't seem to do enough damage sometimes.
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Falling Canada. November 10 2012 08:52. Posts 6344
On November 10 2012 06:52 Fen1kz wrote: siege tanks is fine and dont needs rework, it just need to be 2 supply and may be faster attack speed
2 supply yes, faster attack speed no. It makes the tank too the same as everything. I'd increase the cool down between shots, add overkill and buff damage to compensate. If the damage was properly compensated, the tank would go back to being the machine that gives Protoss and Zerg nightmares, but open ups some interesting micro opportunities on both sides. (Spread positioning and counter spreading.)
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adacan United States. November 10 2012 09:27. Posts 117
Today on battle.net, there was a thoughtful discussion about the siege tank and how weak it was again protoss late game (in the context of the Rain vs MVP HOTS match in which mech was pathetic).
The 'Rock' responded and said, "Thanks for the discussion. Good stuff."
Ultimately however, I think the fix for mech and the siege tank will have to be a straight up buff.
My favorite solution is a late game update that does bonus damage to electromagnetic units (protoss).
Advantages: * Doesn't affect balance in TvZ nor TvT * As a late game upgrade (perhaps requires siege mode & armory & lengthy research time), it would not be viable as a 111 strategy. * It applies to zealot/archon whereas other damage proposed damage modifiers do not.
This buff is urgently needed and long overdue. TvP has become too formulaic and one-dimensional with bio. HOTS can not survive as a an e-sport if pro's keep doing the same bio builds over and over and over and over...
How about giving tanks a secondary damage bonus like Void Rays (bonus vs armored and massive)? Call it Perdition Shells or something like that and have the upgrade grant tanks additional damage vs bio. With extra damage vs bio tanks will be more effective at killing swarms of ling/bling or Marines, do more damage to charging Zealots, and be more effective against Marauders, Roaches, Infestors, and Hydras, giving them greater dominance on the ground and another way to balance out their damage.
edit: Huh, didn't see that post above me. The option you're looking for is a bonus vs mechanical to nail the bulk of Protoss (Zealots and Archons will not be affected), but I don't really like that. Making tanks more effective against Immortals is a bad idea, Immortals are supposed to hard counter Mech. If you make tanks stronger against the designated Protoss mech counter, then Protoss need something else to help counter mech. It's better to deal with Immortals by introducing a Factory unit that deals low damage rapidly (the proposed Viking ground attack 12x1 -> 6x2 or 7x2 comes to mind) as a softer counter to Immortal for a meching player.
Last edit: 2012-11-10 09:59:28
TranceKuja United States. November 10 2012 10:02. Posts 146
On November 10 2012 05:51 Ramone wrote: Isn't the tank a key unit in both PvT and PvZ in most games that go into the mid game or longer? It seems to be working pretty effectively there..In PvP, it's not the go-to unit, but it's still good for fortifying bases, 1/1/1 builds, and early marine tank pushes. It could probably use a verrrry minor tweak vs protoss, but they have to be careful because in certain situations, even against protoss, tanks can be extremely powerful.
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iDoMiNaTe2.0 November 10 2012 08:20. Posts 287
Falling Canada. November 10 2012 08:52. Posts 6344
