US Politics Megathread

In keeping with the spirit of the now defunct US Presidential Election thread, this shall be a common ground for the discussion of issues of US political interest. From economics to political philosophy to mere current event/news interpretation, everything is fair game, given that standards of productive discourse are upheld. The guiding backbone of the thread will be current events posting, and I will do my best to keep this OP updated with information pertinent to the matters at hand. In short, this thread is very ambitious in scope and in breadth, so here are a number of thread guidelines I've devised with expedient and efficient dialogue in mind. Many of these sound similar; however, I've found that when it comes to nurturing effective communication, one cannot be redundant enough

The Rules

1. Show, don't tell, and listen.
      This one sounds simple enough, but political discussions on TL suffer from an ignorance of this cliché and oftentimes devolve accordingly. There is a huge difference between saying “Iran is a bloodthirsty despotic state” and showing how Iran could be considered bloodthirsty given particular evidence. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother posting. Furthermore, if you are here to simply pontificate, please do so elsewhere. The entire point of a forum such as TL is to foster communication, and posters who seek only to talk at others instead of with them will be ignored.

2. No arguments in absentia.
      In other words, do not argue using language that presumes conclusions that not everyone might share. If you think religion is hogwash, then intelligently and deliberately point out how you have come to this conclusion. Do not simply say “religion is garbage”, for it makes you look like a presumptuous fool and it degrades the entire conversation. If every poster attempted to be less unequivocal and more expository, the world of TL would be a better place.

3. Sources: A common sense approach.
      We all know that the strictures of an online text based communication platform make certain sorts of evidential back and forth rather difficult to perform correctly. In keeping with this, I would ask that everyone simply use their heads. Wikipedia, contrary to some belief, is a good source for most things, though feel free to dispute Wiki's page specific sourcing rigor if you find error. Feel free to cite both standard and non-standard news sites and op-ed journalism; be ready, though, for challenges and be prepared to put the ideas of your source material into your own words. We don't need or want Fox News or Huff Post parrots.

4. Keep the hyperbole to a dull roar.
      Because I just love how that was originally worded.

5. Be evocative, not mean.
      Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be.

This is all a working list and OP, so if you have ideas for additional rules, take issue with something I've said, or just wanna make the OP spiffy (my skills with the visual arts are nil), feel free to PM me. Thanks to Azera for the layout and banner!

Current Events

Updated 3/1

Obama orders $85bn spending cuts, blames Republicans
White House takes stance against gay-marriage ban
Budget Spat Swamps Agenda
Statement by the President on the Sequester

Last edit: 2013-03-02 16:24:11

"Hey colaboy, you made the same exact post to me in the 2012 election thread. I am so glad that TL has thread constables!"

Lucario Switzerland. November 21 2012 06:37. Posts 4

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I hope you know that it is very difficult to make such a thread work!

Eurozone crisis:
A good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone_crisis

And here a link to a list of countries by external debt, the EU being ranked 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Gaza:
I think people slightly overreacting is part of the reason why the tensions in Gaza are rising. My father knows people who live in Israel and he talks about this regularly.

Last edit: 2012-11-21 06:54:13

HotS Random Top 8 Master

Praetorial United States. November 21 2012 06:40. Posts 3631

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Down with Likud!

+1 vote for Olmert/Livni!

This is going to be one heck of a thread though, if you can make it work I salute you.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!

helvete Sweden. November 21 2012 06:52. Posts 248

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On November 21 2012 06:37 Lucario wrote:
I hope you know that it is very difficult to make such a thread work!

I think people slightly overreacting is part of the reason why the tensions in Gaza are rising. My father knows people who live in Israel and he talks about this regularly.

And here a link to a list of countries by external debt, the EU being ranked 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

I like the part where Sweden has a larger debt than China.. ;(

Goozen Israel. November 21 2012 06:56. Posts 629

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On November 21 2012 06:40 Praetorial wrote:
Down with Likud!

+1 vote for Olmert/Livni!

This is going to be one heck of a thread though, if you can make it work I salute you.

You do realize that both of them, as of now at least, are not running?

farvacola United States. November 21 2012 06:59. Posts 5549

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On November 21 2012 06:37 Lucario wrote:
I hope you know that it is very difficult to make such a thread work!

Eurozone crisis:
A good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone_crisis

And here a link to a list of countries by external debt, the EU being ranked 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Gaza:
I think people slightly overreacting is part of the reason why the tensions in Gaza are rising. My father knows people who live in Israel and he talks about this regularly.

What makes you think people are overreacting as opposed to underreacting? I only ask because I'd be hard pressed to minimize the concerns of people having their houses shelled, even if such violence was relatively commonplace.

"Hey colaboy, you made the same exact post to me in the 2012 election thread. I am so glad that TL has thread constables!"

HereBeDragons November 21 2012 07:01. Posts 1106

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Some other on-going issues that I find to be quite disturbing is the South China Sea maritime territory dispute.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20405053
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_South_China_Sea

+ Show Spoiler +

With the recent visit from leaders of Japan, Australia, and USA to the ASEAN summit that just ended on the 20th November, this was hoped to be the meeting that could somewhat push a reasonable solution to this issue, but unfortunately they failed to resolve any of the conflict. All affected parties seeks international backup from the 3 countries that attended to help strengthen their claims, but no direct support was given, other than pleas to each the tension. This is such a slug-fest that no one wants to back away from. Reasons are simple enough - if you lose it, you probably will never get it back again.

So far, no Chinese official, the center of the dispute, have made any concrete statement to the international media. As a result, I seem to be getting only information as China-is-a-bully, but I've never heard a story from the claims of the Chinese side before which makes me curious.

The South China Sea is believed to have a sizable reserve of oil and in particular, natural gas.Malaysia and Brunei's wealth is largely attributed to this as they have been extracting for them for decades now, but large deposits still remains in the disputed international water territory.

This issue seems petty but for the time being, there seems to be no possible outcome that leads to anything good.

He who conquers himself is the greatest warrior.

XenOmega Canada. November 21 2012 07:01. Posts 1006

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Yea, I think it would be a great idea to "spoiler" every big events and add some links where one can quickly read on the subject. Maybe we will get more "smart" posts after ^^

Would it be a good idea to make an account for this thread so that we (multiple reliable users) can keep it updated quickly. Unless of course, if you are a 24/7 forum user ^^

Last edit: 2012-11-21 07:02:15

farvacola United States. November 21 2012 07:04. Posts 5549

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On November 21 2012 07:01 XenOmega wrote:
Yea, I think it would be a great idea to "spoiler" every big events and add some links where one can quickly read on the subject. Maybe we will get more "smart" posts after ^^

Would it be a good idea to make an account for this thread so that we (multiple reliable users) can keep it updated quickly. Unless of course, if you are a 24/7 forum user ^^

Yeah, over the next few days I'll get the current events section organized in such a way as to make it easy for people to quickly read up on a topic; in the meantime, I'll simply post good bits of news I stumble upon. And, although I'm not quite at 24/7 status, my work requires that I sit in front of a computer so I'll be able to update the thread quite frequently

Edit: I've gone ahead and added the geographic dispute in the South China Sea, thanks HereBeDragons.

Last edit: 2012-11-21 07:08:08

"Hey colaboy, you made the same exact post to me in the 2012 election thread. I am so glad that TL has thread constables!"

Goozen Israel. November 21 2012 07:07. Posts 629

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On November 21 2012 06:59 farvacola wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well if you look at it in a global level you can see that in Syria over 250, if not more people have died in this period and civil war. Or if you want to look it at a level of how much you, as a individual can have an effect in Gaza you dont really yet in Africa for example you can or make a donation or volunteer and make a difference.

Praetorial United States. November 21 2012 07:09. Posts 3631

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On November 21 2012 06:56 Goozen wrote:

Show nested quote +

You do realize that both of them, as of now at least, are not running?

Maybe not, but their parties are, and there's a ton of time between now and January.

FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!

Zealotdriver United States. November 21 2012 07:12. Posts 1512

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I have a feeling farvacola is going to be disappointed as 2-5% of posters actually follow the guidelines in the OP.

Turn off the radio

Goozen Israel. November 21 2012 07:13. Posts 629

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On November 21 2012 07:09 Praetorial wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maybe not, but their parties are, and there's a ton of time between now and January.

They both left the party, and if they return to politics it will be to a new party. Also, Kadima right now they are looking at 5-6 seats out of 120 so they are quite irrelevant, and as far this operation in gaza their currant leader is in favor of a ground invasion and is pushing for it.

bonse November 21 2012 07:27. Posts 118

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On November 21 2012 06:40 Praetorial wrote:
Down with Likud!

+1 vote for Olmert/Livni!

What he means is that Olmert bombed the Syrian nuclear reactor and he hopes he will do the same with Iran. ;-)

Last edit: 2012-11-21 07:30:09

Shiragaku United States. November 21 2012 07:32. Posts 2923

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Ohhh Allen West...that guy. I cringe whenever he says the words Communist, Marxist, socialist, Holocaust, and fascist.

WhiteDog France. November 21 2012 07:44. Posts 3518

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We are overreacting to Israel attacking Gaza for the second time in the last 5 years... I think people should also refrain themselves from making out of context and uneducated comparaison.
Syria is not an invasion, it's an internal affair which explains why a lot of people are being careful in how they handle the matter. On the other side, in Gaza there is an invasion in an on going problem that has been going on since 60 years or so and that condense a lot of problem.

Not all things are equal, the number of death is not the only thing that matter. Gaza has a history, and people are tired of seeing, hearing the same thing going on over and over again, which is why people "overreact".

Last edit: 2012-11-21 07:54:04

Fenris420 Sweden. November 21 2012 07:49. Posts 196

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Gilad Sharon wrote a rather unsettling column in the jerusalem post. Whole thing available below.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

Then you go to the other side of things and read:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/11/2012112073330494272.html

This, according to the Israeli government, is in response to hundreds of rockets fired at Israel by Hamas from Gaza, that has created fear amongst the Israeli population and claimed three Israeli lives. But this is asymmetric warfare: The death toll in Gaza has already crossed 100, including many women and children.

Such a weird conflict. Both sides consider themselves victims and justified in their actions. Even stranger is the ritual where first palestinians fire rockets, then israel retalliates and then there are peace talks. It is almost like a married couple.

xDaunt United States. November 21 2012 07:49. Posts 4420

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I suspect that this thread may be a bit of a clusterfuck if it tries to cover every country's politics and all related global events. It was hard enough to keep things focused in the US general elections thread where, at least nominally, the focus was on only US politics.

helvete Sweden. November 21 2012 07:56. Posts 248

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Yeah maybe we should stop talking about how well the thread will do... it's pretty off topic imho.

WhiteDog France. November 21 2012 07:57. Posts 3518

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On November 21 2012 07:49 Fenris420 wrote:
Gilad Sharon wrote a rather unsettling column in the jerusalem post. Whole thing available below.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

Show nested quote +

Then you go to the other side of things and read:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/11/2012112073330494272.html

Show nested quote +

Just take fact and don't listen to the excuse some party might comes up.
Takes the numbers of death from both sides, takes the humanitarian situation (living condition, life expectancy, health) in both country, takes the army on both sides : everything shows that there is one super power with an economy almost on par with developped country and a weak country with almost half of the population under 14 years old.