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Shadow Swamp by Fatam version 1.4 [NA, EU] (thanks moskonia)
Playable Bounds: 158 x 140 Rush Distance (nat-to-nat): 108 # of bases: 12 8m2g # of destructible rocks: none! # of watchtowers: 2
Overviews:
FFE: + Show Spoiler +
56 Degree:
90 Degree: + Show Spoiler +
Aesthetics: (Warning: image-heavy) + Show Spoiler +
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Sick. Sick good. A rare map in this forum that is innovative but doesn't have a stupid little gimmick that fucks it up (like not being able to FFE or some shit like that). But I have a small question. Why the rocks between the creeped northern island bases?
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I love the mapmaking this days, there are a few sick maps. This map is awesome, but I hate the "high-ground expansions" and I'm really against the free-expos maps like entombed, cloud kingdom ohana and so on.
We've to push for a metagame shift either with the maps, we want less deathballs? Fuck yeah, made big maps with far thirds, this can be easy for terrans? Blizzard can re-balance with HoTS.. but we've to shout this out.
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I think there's way too much wasted space. Instead of having all these little choke points around the map, refine the layout, get rid of extra space ,and streamline the map. Basically too much of this map just doesn't make sense to me...
They layout should be as simple as possible, but this is needlessly complex.
Btw, textures are nice though . Was a nice surprise to see your effort with blending and shit. I think it's just a drawback of this tileset that far away everything looks the same.
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Thanks for commenting.
@ wasted space, I think the bottom 1/5 or so of the map is not 100% necessary. It could be different and it wouldn't affect the map much until lategame. But every inch above the bottom 1/5 of the map is pretty much needed (you could reduce the size of a couple areas by a square or two maybe, but nothing much).
One potential variant of the current map that might be decent is putting the 6th bases sort of where the 2 highground passages are near the middle, and then just cutting out that bottom 1/5.
My concern with cutting out the "unnecessary" bottom 1/4 is that it actually becomes very necessary (imo) if you DO make it to the lategame. If those areas don't exist, then you could basically sit your army near the middle and stop everything but drops/air.
@ rocks on the island - Maybe it's unnecessary, I'm not sure. Having a shared island is a pretty unexplored idea, but one that I found fairly interesting. I was afraid w/ no rocks that someone would just take both island bases and it might be OP. But now that I think about it - given the close proximity that the far island base is to your opponent, maybe that's a silly concern. Making the XNT on the island easily obtainable instead of requiring the rocks to be gone would make the island expo slightly more appealing b/c you'll have vision of the main air/drop route between you and your opponent. So yeah removing the rocks sounds decent, I might do that.
@ the thirds - I'm not sure if your comment was saying that the third is far or close (lol) but I agree we need to break up deathballs. This map is a hell of a lot more conventional than the next thing I have planned as far as doing that.
But anyway, the thirds - they actually are pretty close. Maybe not the safest thirds ever (b/c of vulnerability to air/drops), but close. Say, if you measure from the edge of the main's ramp on Daybreak to the Nexus/CC/Hatch at the third, that distance is 38 squares. The same distance here is only 27.
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Those high grounds in the bottom 4th of the map can really be problematic for split map turtle fests. You could probable fix it by making the base down there more lucrative and the 4ths less so. Something like remove 1 gas from both 4ths and add 2 to the bottom one. They will have to fight for that base. That being said it could also become a winners base. Maybe making the creeped islands, pseudo island to allow counter attacks in the late game? Make a 1 FF wide ramp into them from both sides and block them with FFs or really thick rocks?
My gut tells me that third is too hard to take (low ground, 2 wide chokes for a 3 base play, a watchtower haveing free vision of it), but I wanna see what testing would be like.
I still stand by the fact that this map is baller and you should post it on Reddit. <3
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Thanks. I figure it's better to post it here and see if there's anything I can improve before going to reddit. But once I feel like it's all hammered out I probably will throw it up there.
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On November 28 2012 10:30 Fatam wrote: Thanks. I figure it's better to post it here and see if there's anything I can improve before going to reddit. But once I feel like it's all hammered out I probably will throw it up there.
Smart. Tho I think you should clean up the OP. A banner, centred title, you know that shit. Make it look like we know what we are doing n'shit. =D
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This map looks really damn awesome, it has some neat new ideas that isn't being used anywhere else currently.
My one concern though is that it's fairly easy for this to become a split map situation very easily, say in a TvZ or TvT, one terran takes the center right/left highground and put tanks there, then they have 5 bases behind that, and just need to worry about drops.
My idea would be to take the bottom center base and move it up to where the watchtower is (Watchtower at a base might be another new idea? don't know), and then add a hallway behind the base, think Entombed Valley with the center bases, and then even maybe let the path lead all the way to the bottom corner bases, while also leading out underneath the center high grounds.
I could use mad paint skills if you don't know what I mean
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Nice catch on the LOS blockers. Thanks! Not entirely sure how that happened. I think I made the LOS blockers by copy+pasting 1 or 2 initial LOS blockers over and over and , or .'ing them to create variety, but it's possible the initial ones that got copied somehow got accidentally selected w/ another thing which I turned the doodad footprint off for. (so in turn, all of them had doodad footprint off) That's the only theory I have :-O
On the other hand I don't think that spot is that strong for a bunker rush. It's no stronger than 100 similar places that can be found on ladder maps.
edge of map being visible has never bothered me, but I guess it's something you "shouldn't" do so I'll fix it. Thanks
My idea would be to take the bottom center base and move it up to where the watchtower is (Watchtower at a base might be another new idea? don't know), and then add a hallway behind the base, think Entombed Valley with the center bases, and then even maybe let the path lead all the way to the bottom corner bases, while also leading out underneath the center high grounds.
Sounds interesting, I'll play around w/ it. I kind of agree w/ you that split map scenario is possible in certain matchups.
edit: I was just thinking about it, is there any reason that buildings shouldn't be buildable on top of LOS blockers?
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+ Show Spoiler +
A variation I was considering. It would help break up lategame turtlefests a bit. Tanks on the other side of the rocks / chasm can't reach the minerals/geysers at the third. What do you think of this idea?
I'm still going to do something about the bottom of the map as well.
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I was was thinking the islands would lead into the naturals, not thirds. Also the LOS don't block when they don't have a footprint.
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Here's more potential changes
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I don't like making the island ground accessible like that. Gah I've ranted about the forum needing more good posts and this is what I come up with. :E
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still feels so choked, if possible could you make some area's wider so aoe units don't dominate?
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Hi Fatam!!
Would you mind if we tried this map out for the Starbow mod's map pool?
Thanks.
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I don't like making the island ground accessible like that. Gah I've ranted about the forum needing more good posts and this is what I come up with. :E
Actually that is a perfectly fine post cuz it gives feedback :-P I might change the bottom of the map but leave the island as is w/out the ground access. These are just possible changes afterall.
@ tibbles yeah I agree it could be a tad more open in a few places, I'll look at that
@ december - anyone can use any of my maps for anything they want :-P I don't lock any of them. So yes.
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On November 30 2012 10:32 Fatam wrote:Show nested quote +I don't like making the island ground accessible like that. Gah I've ranted about the forum needing more good posts and this is what I come up with. :E Actually that is a perfectly fine post cuz it gives feedback :-P I might change the bottom of the map but leave the island as is w/out the ground access. These are just possible changes afterall. @ tibbles yeah I agree it could be a tad more open in a few places, I'll look at that @ december - anyone can use any of my maps for anything they want :-P I don't lock any of them. So yes.
Thank you very much! Looking forward to some gg's on it.
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I updated this
I wanted to open the map up some, but maintain as much of the layout from before as possible, along with the "shortest path is narrowest" principle.
One little added feature that you might find interesting (mainly in XvZ matchups).. the 3 lowgrounds in the middle - they are pathable. So you can land tanks/cliffwalk colossi down there vs. melee like ling/bling, but it's not as OP as it would be if those lowgrounds were highgrounds since ranged stuff can shoot down @ you without needing vision.
edit - I don't think I mentioned it before, but the creep tumors on the island were shifted over a couple versions ago so that they don't block the town hall locations. This means that zerg shouldn't have to get detection over there to build a hatch, since they won't (ever) need to kill the tumor. But P and T still need to kill the tumor of course. I felt this helped balance the fact that it's slightly more inconvenient for Z to island-expand.
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