Right so i made these for myself to see which mp would be the fastest xp since i'm trying to get para90 as fast as possible but i thought the results might be interesting to someone else.
I know that 3 runs arent really enought to get 100% accurate results but for now it's enough for me to see that even with my 140k paper dps mp0 is still by far the fastest xp in the game.
You can also see that rakkis crossing monster density is enough to keep and even increase the xp/hour compared to the original alkaizer route, increases the time i spend killing with full nv stacks and should increase my drops in the end.
Numbers are obviously different for any other players and id like to see what results others get, is 60m+/hour good or bad?
I'll also probably keep updating the sheet with different additions to the route and see if there's more areas that can keep the xp above 60m or so / hour.
Skycrown battlements has really high monster density too, especially because it is linear, so no backtracking like you may have to do in keep depths 2.
You should definitely add that to your runs to get more out of those 5 stacks.
On November 29 2012 05:58 Tears.Of.The.Moon wrote: Just wondering where exactly do you start the rakkis crossing clearing, from the top, start or from the waypoint?
From rakkis crossing waypoint run to fields of slaughter.
On November 29 2012 06:05 alQahira wrote: Skycrown battlements has really high monster density too, especially because it is linear, so no backtracking like you may have to do in keep depths 2.
You should definitely add that to your runs to get more out of those 5 stacks.
Will try that on my next runs and add it on the sheet, don't think i ever cleared that after my initial game clear
i don't think 60m exp/hr with a 28% leo's is particularly great... i kept track of my exp/hr for my plvls 95-100 and i was always hovering around ~67m exp/hr and i had a worse leo's (23%) as well as lower sheet dps. are you 140k unbuffed with leo's? 'cause i was 100k unbuffed with mine
i ran mp2 and would do core/tower for 5 NV (crater if i needed a few more) then head straight to keeps 2/fields. each run was approximately 10-13 minutes and coincidentally enough, i usually only had to sell every 5-6 runs (so every hour)
On November 29 2012 06:05 alQahira wrote: Skycrown battlements has really high monster density too, especially because it is linear, so no backtracking like you may have to do in keep depths 2.
You should definitely add that to your runs to get more out of those 5 stacks.
Worked out to be same xp so there's definitely enough mobs.
On November 29 2012 06:52 wooozy wrote: i don't think 60m exp/hr with a 28% leo's is particularly great... i kept track of my exp/hr for my plvls 95-100 and i was always hovering around ~67m exp/hr and i had a worse leo's (23%) as well as lower sheet dps. are you 140k unbuffed with leo's? 'cause i was 100k unbuffed with mine
i ran mp2 and would do core/tower for 5 NV (crater if i needed a few more) then head straight to keeps 2/fields. each run was approximately 10-13 minutes and coincidentally enough, i usually only had to sell every 5-6 runs (so every hour)
edit: i also play monk
120k unbuffed with enchantress. So you completely skipped crater if you had 5 stacks? Maybe i spend too much time looting, even though i only pick up ilvl63 good items, rings/ammys and legendaries really right now.
yup, i skipped crater if i got 5 nv from core/tower. i find crater to be far too hit-or-miss for it to be worth it. sometimes they'll be filled to the brim with trash mobs/elites, but more often than not, i get some shitty map where all the mobs are hidden in random dead end paths that i don't go to. not to mention i hate those shielding occultists dudes with a fiery passion
items i picked up were all gloves/rings/amulets, all 63 1-handers, and of course, legendaries/sets
also, i used scoundrel over enchantress for a free 10% damage bonus (which i always made sure was part of my SW snapshot)
edit: now that i think about it, our builds differ slightly. i assume you replaced blind with tempest rush whereas i replaced blazing wrath. while you may have higher paper DPS than me, i'm pretty sure i'm dishing out more damage. between hysteria, blind, and the SW bonus from my helm, i can snapshot a WAY stronger SW than you can. additionally, i noticed you still use serenity in mp0 which i find odd. you should try subbing that for SSS-fulminating onslaught instead - it's like an offensive version of serenity, and since you have lifesteal on your shenlong, it's practically a gg full health button (on top of insta-gibbing elites). personally, i never spec serenity until at least mp5+
On November 29 2012 08:25 wooozy wrote: yup, i skipped crater if i got 5 nv from core/tower. i find crater to be far too hit-or-miss for it to be worth it. sometimes they'll be filled to the brim with trash mobs/elites, but more often than not, i get some shitty map where all the mobs are hidden in random dead end paths that i don't go to. not to mention i hate those shielding occultists dudes with a fiery passion
items i picked up were all gloves/rings/amulets, all 63 1-handers, and of course, legendaries/sets
also, i used scoundrel over enchantress for a free 10% damage bonus (which i always made sure was part of my SW snapshot)
edit: now that i think about it, our builds differ slightly. i assume you replaced blind with tempest rush whereas i replaced blazing wrath. while you may have higher paper DPS than me, i'm pretty sure i'm dishing out more damage. between hysteria, blind, and the SW bonus from my helm, i can snapshot a WAY stronger SW than you can. additionally, i noticed you still use serenity in mp0 which i find odd. you should try subbing that for SSS-fulminating onslaught instead - it's like an offensive version of serenity, and since you have lifesteal on your shenlong, it's practically a gg full health button (on top of insta-gibbing elites). personally, i never spec serenity until at least mp5+
I actually use serenity just to skip stuff like frozen but yeah i don't need it and should get rid of it indeed. Tempest rush is really good for just blazing between fights and especially when you hit a dead end in keeps 2 for example, as for crater 2 i know all the layouts by now and usually just rush through it killing everything i see.
Going to try blind for snapshotting for now on instead of serenity, thanks for pointing that out
Edit: Well i swapped serenity for blind and bought a helm with dex, 6cc and 13% sw damage for snapshotting and everything seems to die a lot faster, will write down some numbers laters.
the reason alkaizer skipped skycrown, rakkis and crater level 1 was that the trash mobs there tend to flee, so that a ww/sprint barb cant reliably kill them when he rushes through the mobs. the same argument should hold for monks as well. for dhs, by contrast, these zones should increase a run's efficiency.
additionally, the alkaizer route is designed so that one never has to tp except at the end in keep lvl 2. while rakkis can be added without having to tp, skycrown cannot.
btw i personally love crater lvl 2 - actually my favorite lvl over keep depths. the bridge is my least favorite of the three big zones in an alkaizer run. btw you should note that crater lvl 2 is almost always almost linear, crater lvl 3 is even guaranteed to be linear. the main toughy is crater lvl 1, which can have the sickest dead ends.
your comparison between mp1 and mp0 is interesting though. however, shrines (fleeting, exp) and luck (dead end in crater etc.) can make a huge difference so that 3 runs for each setting is a way too low sample size to draw any meaningful conclusions. maybe you can keep track of your runs and add them to your spreadsheet?
When I paragoned my wizard I had converged to a run that made a lot of sense due to lots of little tweaks I did over time. I never did do any in depth calculations though, as I valued drops more than I do now with my monk, so I just wanted a run with maximum valor uptime and maximum elite amount. The run requirements for archon and tempest rushing are similar, but not exactly the same. For example, with monk I can handle longer distances without mobs, but I cannot have a single town portal. Having said that, there are ways to run certain areas that some might not think of, so that the run works as a whole.
The run so far is around 62-63 M exp/h and this is how I do it:
1. Standard Alkaizer start at Core 2. Tower of the damned circle counter-clockwise 2b. This is where I would not go back to the waypoint with my wizard, but instead run up the stairs and clear crater 1 backwards. The area is really random, but running it backwards lets you see the waypoint on the minimap, so you can always tell roughly the right way. I don't go here with the monk, since you rarely get 5 stacks before this point and the beginning of the run is all about getting stacks fast. You could go back here after clearing crater 2, but this requires further benchmarking. I'll do that some day for sure. 3. WP to tower of the cursed, where there is often at least one pack very close to the waypoint, and quite possibly another pack, goblin and a shrine or even two. After the area surrounding cursed WP is inspected, run up the stairs and clear crater 2 backwards. 3b. With wizard I would actually run past the waypoint, to the end of damned 2, where there is often a pack or two and a goblin. But with monk I can't TP, so I'll pass this. 4. Korsikk WP and clear Fields in an S-shaped pattern, so that you clear everything and exit the area to Rakkis, which is also cleared till the waypoint. 4b. With wizard I would again run past the wp and go check if underbridge has spawned. If it has, there is a guaranteed elite inside. 5. From this point on the run did evolve the most during todays runs, and this is what I ended up with. Go from Rakkis WP to Stonefort, run through the door and clear Skycrown backwards. Exit the area through the normal entrance and run to the town WP, this takes something like 5 seconds. 6. WP to Keep depths 1, enter KD2, clear it and end run.
Like the spreadsheet shows, I did a few different types of runs today, did some with a friend and even my gear changed, but overall the efficiency is looking like it's increasing. Right now I'm thinking of what to do with Fields of Slaughter, which is obviously packed with a lot of monsters, but they're also more beefier than the smaller monsters in KD and Crater, which means I have to burn some time by circling back and forth a bit in Fields. My gut tells me it's still very much worth clearing, but I'll have to benchmark that aswell.
When I paragoned my wizard I had converged to a run that made a lot of sense due to lots of little tweaks I did over time. I never did do any in depth calculations though, as I valued drops more than I do now with my monk, so I just wanted a run with maximum valor uptime and maximum elite amount. The run requirements for archon and tempest rushing are similar, but not exactly the same. For example, with monk I can handle longer distances without mobs, but I cannot have a single town portal. Having said that, there are ways to run certain areas that some might not think of, so that the run works as a whole.
The run so far is around 62-63 M exp/h and this is how I do it:
1. Standard Alkaizer start at Core 2. Tower of the damned circle counter-clockwise 2b. This is where I would not go back to the waypoint with my wizard, but instead run up the stairs and clear crater 1 backwards. The area is really random, but running it backwards lets you see the waypoint on the minimap, so you can always tell roughly the right way. I don't go here with the monk, since you rarely get 5 stacks before this point and the beginning of the run is all about getting stacks fast. You could go back here after clearing crater 2, but this requires further benchmarking. I'll do that some day for sure. 3. WP to tower of the cursed, where there is often at least one pack very close to the waypoint, and quite possibly another pack, goblin and a shrine or even two. After the area surrounding cursed WP is inspected, run up the stairs and clear crater 2 backwards. 3b. With wizard I would actually run past the waypoint, to the end of damned 2, where there is often a pack or two and a goblin. But with monk I can't TP, so I'll pass this. 4. Korsikk WP and clear Fields in an S-shaped pattern, so that you clear everything and exit the area to Rakkis, which is also cleared till the waypoint. 4b. With wizard I would again run past the wp and go check if underbridge has spawned. If it has, there is a guaranteed elite inside. 5. From this point on the run did evolve the most during todays runs, and this is what I ended up with. Go from Rakkis WP to Stonefort, run through the door and clear Skycrown backwards. Exit the area through the normal entrance and run to the town WP, this takes something like 5 seconds. 6. WP to Keep depths 1, enter KD2, clear it and end run.
Like the spreadsheet shows, I did a few different types of runs today, did some with a friend and even my gear changed, but overall the efficiency is looking like it's increasing. Right now I'm thinking of what to do with Fields of Slaughter, which is obviously packed with a lot of monsters, but they're also more beefier than the smaller monsters in KD and Crater, which means I have to burn some time by circling back and forth a bit in Fields. My gut tells me it's still very much worth clearing, but I'll have to benchmark that aswell.
Is your dps enough to kill everything instantly just by running by or do you have to circle around a lot?
On November 29 2012 12:17 Black Gun wrote: the reason alkaizer skipped skycrown, rakkis and crater level 1 was that the trash mobs there tend to flee, so that a ww/sprint barb cant reliably kill them when he rushes through the mobs. the same argument should hold for monks as well. for dhs, by contrast, these zones should increase a run's efficiency.
additionally, the alkaizer route is designed so that one never has to tp except at the end in keep lvl 2. while rakkis can be added without having to tp, skycrown cannot.
btw i personally love crater lvl 2 - actually my favorite lvl over keep depths. the bridge is my least favorite of the three big zones in an alkaizer run. btw you should note that crater lvl 2 is almost always almost linear, crater lvl 3 is even guaranteed to be linear. the main toughy is crater lvl 1, which can have the sickest dead ends.
your comparison between mp1 and mp0 is interesting though. however, shrines (fleeting, exp) and luck (dead end in crater etc.) can make a huge difference so that 3 runs for each setting is a way too low sample size to draw any meaningful conclusions. maybe you can keep track of your runs and add them to your spreadsheet?
Yeah i forgot to add that i didn't take any shrines except for protection and mf ones and true crater 2 is linear once you learn all the possible layouts(so much for randomly generated maps).
I might do more but i don't know if i'm going to keep playing anymore after this weeks 100+ worthless legendaries(not to mention all dem rares)
Wow this is fascinating to me, since i main monk. Thank you for this! For some reason I can only pull around 40 mill exp an hour; im also running dual signets (one on follower, one on me). I wonder what I'm doing wrong. I'll try your path later today and see what I can get done in an hour
Padon me but how the hell do you achieve 60m XP per hour??
I just tried to do a very non-scientific timing of my Wizards Alkaizer run last night from paragon 15 to 16 on MP0. It was about 30m XP and it took me just below an hour to complete 3 runs.
I run Archon with teleport and scramble armor (though I might not fully understand to use it properly) with 136k unbuffed DPS. I one-shot everything and kill elites pretty fast.
I do however pick up all rares and only rares no blue ones and ofc legendaries. I take the Alkaizer route but cross the bridge with 5 stacks to loot better as I need the gold and like the item hunt a bit. Sometimes I end the runs by going after the Keywarden while I'm at it.
On November 30 2012 16:20 3nickma wrote: Padon me but how the hell do you achieve 60m XP per hour??
I just tried to do a very non-scientific timing of my Wizards Alkaizer run last night from paragon 15 to 16 on MP0. It was about 30m XP and it took me just below an hour to complete.
I run Archon with teleport and scramble armor (though I might not fully understand to use it properly) with 136k unbuffed DPS. I one-shot everything and kill elites pretty fast.
I do however pick up all rares and only rares no blue ones and ofc legendaries. I take the Alkaizer route but cross the bridge with 5 stacks to loot better as I need the gold and like the item hunt a bit. Sometimes I end the runs by going after the Keywarden while I'm at it.
On November 30 2012 16:20 3nickma wrote: Padon me but how the hell do you achieve 60m XP per hour??
I just tried to do a very non-scientific timing of my Wizards Alkaizer run last night from paragon 15 to 16 on MP0. It was about 30m XP and it took me just below an hour to complete.
I run Archon with teleport and scramble armor (though I might not fully understand to use it properly) with 136k unbuffed DPS. I one-shot everything and kill elites pretty fast.
I do however pick up all rares and only rares no blue ones and ofc legendaries. I take the Alkaizer route but cross the bridge with 5 stacks to loot better as I need the gold and like the item hunt a bit. Sometimes I end the runs by going after the Keywarden while I'm at it.
Got Andy's with 31% XP and no Hellfire.
pretty sure you just answered yourself...
By picking up rares??
They're in my path and only takes a few seconds to pick up. I just find it hard to believe I can doble my XP just by not picking them up!?
On November 30 2012 16:20 3nickma wrote: Padon me but how the hell do you achieve 60m XP per hour??
I just tried to do a very non-scientific timing of my Wizards Alkaizer run last night from paragon 15 to 16 on MP0. It was about 30m XP and it took me just below an hour to complete.
I run Archon with teleport and scramble armor (though I might not fully understand to use it properly) with 136k unbuffed DPS. I one-shot everything and kill elites pretty fast.
I do however pick up all rares and only rares no blue ones and ofc legendaries. I take the Alkaizer route but cross the bridge with 5 stacks to loot better as I need the gold and like the item hunt a bit. Sometimes I end the runs by going after the Keywarden while I'm at it.
Got Andy's with 31% XP and no Hellfire.
pretty sure you just answered yourself...
By picking up rares??
They're in my path and only takes a few seconds to pick up. I just find it hard to believe I can doble my XP just by not picking them up!?
I take about 20 min per run
20 min is about 8-10 mins too much. Do you backtrack a lot? Or stop to kill single enemies? Cuz when you xp run you just rush through big chunks of mobs and tp once you cleared to the next area or reach a dead end.
On November 30 2012 12:49 Jiiks wrote:Is your dps enough to kill everything instantly just by running by or do you have to circle around a lot?
There is some circling there, but not excessively so. With the gear constraints you have from stacking Innas and spirit regen, I don't think it's even possible to get to that dps level where everything vaporizes like they do on normal difficulty.
On November 30 2012 16:20 3nickma wrote: Padon me but how the hell do you achieve 60m XP per hour??
I just tried to do a very non-scientific timing of my Wizards Alkaizer run last night from paragon 15 to 16 on MP0. It was about 30m XP and it took me just below an hour to complete 3 runs.
I run Archon with teleport and scramble armor (though I might not fully understand to use it properly) with 136k unbuffed DPS. I one-shot everything and kill elites pretty fast.
I do however pick up all rares and only rares no blue ones and ofc legendaries. I take the Alkaizer route but cross the bridge with 5 stacks to loot better as I need the gold and like the item hunt a bit. Sometimes I end the runs by going after the Keywarden while I'm at it.
Got Andy's with 31% XP and no Hellfire.
Thing about wizard is, and especially archon, that it's super duper slow moving character. It gets better when you have the dps to mow shit down fast at higher monster powers, but that takes some serious gear. I had about 300k dps (buffed) on my wizard, and MP4 felt like the sweet spot. I don't agree that much on picking up stuff that's slowing you down, unless you pick so much that you need to ID stuff multiple times during the run. If you got the dps, Blizzard/wormhole builds on MP0 are worth trying for speed xp farming.
I recorded one MP0 run with my monk, which was about 65M exp/hour. That was done with a ruby in helm and a Hellfire on both me and the templar, but no Leorics on either. The difference in move speed between Tempest Rushing and Archon is massive.
When I paragoned my wizard I had converged to a run that made a lot of sense due to lots of little tweaks I did over time. I never did do any in depth calculations though, as I valued drops more than I do now with my monk, so I just wanted a run with maximum valor uptime and maximum elite amount. The run requirements for archon and tempest rushing are similar, but not exactly the same. For example, with monk I can handle longer distances without mobs, but I cannot have a single town portal. Having said that, there are ways to run certain areas that some might not think of, so that the run works as a whole.
The run so far is around 62-63 M exp/h and this is how I do it:
1. Standard Alkaizer start at Core 2. Tower of the damned circle counter-clockwise 2b. This is where I would not go back to the waypoint with my wizard, but instead run up the stairs and clear crater 1 backwards. The area is really random, but running it backwards lets you see the waypoint on the minimap, so you can always tell roughly the right way. I don't go here with the monk, since you rarely get 5 stacks before this point and the beginning of the run is all about getting stacks fast. You could go back here after clearing crater 2, but this requires further benchmarking. I'll do that some day for sure. 3. WP to tower of the cursed, where there is often at least one pack very close to the waypoint, and quite possibly another pack, goblin and a shrine or even two. After the area surrounding cursed WP is inspected, run up the stairs and clear crater 2 backwards. 3b. With wizard I would actually run past the waypoint, to the end of damned 2, where there is often a pack or two and a goblin. But with monk I can't TP, so I'll pass this. 4. Korsikk WP and clear Fields in an S-shaped pattern, so that you clear everything and exit the area to Rakkis, which is also cleared till the waypoint. 4b. With wizard I would again run past the wp and go check if underbridge has spawned. If it has, there is a guaranteed elite inside. 5. From this point on the run did evolve the most during todays runs, and this is what I ended up with. Go from Rakkis WP to Stonefort, run through the door and clear Skycrown backwards. Exit the area through the normal entrance and run to the town WP, this takes something like 5 seconds. 6. WP to Keep depths 1, enter KD2, clear it and end run.
Like the spreadsheet shows, I did a few different types of runs today, did some with a friend and even my gear changed, but overall the efficiency is looking like it's increasing. Right now I'm thinking of what to do with Fields of Slaughter, which is obviously packed with a lot of monsters, but they're also more beefier than the smaller monsters in KD and Crater, which means I have to burn some time by circling back and forth a bit in Fields. My gut tells me it's still very much worth clearing, but I'll have to benchmark that aswell.
On November 30 2012 23:30 Black Gun wrote: just out of curiosity: why cant a monk tp?
Well, I guess they mostly could. The way sweeping wind works, is it checks your damage when you activate it and maintains it even if you switch gear. That's why many monks switch the highest possible dps gear on, activates all possible damage buffs and finally the sweeping wind. Then they switch back their "normal" gear and never let the sweeping wind run out. TPing takes too long, and SW will run out. It's not a huge deal for me, since I only have one amulet I switch, but some have more gear for this. Also, you especially don't want SW to run out if you've found a frenzy shrine and rebuffed the SW during the run.